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Yanma; LC Uber here we come!
Topic Started: Aug 28 2008, 11:30 AM (1,708 Views)
eric the espeon
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Yanma

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Stat--base min- min max max+
HP----65---N/A--23--26--N/A
Att---65---9----14--16--17
Def---45---9----11--14--15
Sp.A--75---12---14--17--18
Sp.D--75---9----11--14--15
Spe---95---14---16--19--20


[SET]
name: Standard
move 1: Protect
move 2: Hypnosis
move 3: Bug Buzz
move 4: Air Slash
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Modest
evs: 76 HP / 156 Def / 236 SpA

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This set is simple, yet extremely effective. Protect against faster opponents and Scarfers and thanks to Speed Boost you will have 28 speed, you can now sweep with Bug Buzz and Air Slash. If you meet something you can't beat just use Hypnosis on them and beat them down.</p>

<p>Focus Sash makes it harder to sweep but lets you survive Sneasel's Ice Shard and 1KO back with Bug Buzz, beware though as unless you plan to lead with this or something that can stop SR your Sash will be negated.</p>

<p>Due to speed boost even with 0 investment after one protect you hit 24 speed so you may want to try a more bulky spread. 76 HP / 76 Def / 76 SpD gives you the highest overall defences, but 76 HP / 156 Def lets you survive LO Sneasel's Ice Shard 100% of the time.</p>

[SET]
name: Specs
move 1: Bug Buzz
move 2: Air Slash
move 3: Hypnosis
move 4: U-Turn
item: Choice Specs
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Modest
evs: 240 SpA / 240 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>This is kinda inferior to the LO set, but that boost in power as well as the lack of recoil is useful. There are a lot of other moves that could go on this set, but none of them offer much coverage so its probably best to stick with the STABs Hypnosis and U-Turn.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice Band
move 1: U-Turn
move 2: Wing Attack
move 3: Hypnosis
move 4: Quick Attack
item: Choice Band
ability: Speed Boost
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Atk / 236 Spe

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>The attraction of this set is mostly U-Turn off 25 attack and the Priority offered by Quick Attack, but really this set is just a one off surprise.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>Substitute is the most important option not on the main sets, it lets you scout your opponents switches and makes Yanma even harder to counter, however the only move that you could think about doping for it is Protect which makes your first turn in a bit risky. If you can get in against something slower than yourself and set up a sub on it your opponent will be hard pressed to stop you.</p>

<p>Yanma has a lot of special attacking options, but none of them are really that good. Ancientpower, Giga Drain, Psychic, Shadow Ball, Silver Wind, HP Fighting/Fire/Ground, and Sludge Bomb could all kind of work on the Specs set but none of them offer much coverage that its STAB attacks don't give.</p>

<p>For Physical sets... Return Steel Wind and... Pursuit could all work.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Yanma requires 236 to max out any stat so the normal way to go is 236 [whatever attack you are using] / 236 Speed.</p>

<p>For HP Fire just add 4 to Speed, and Special Attack/Attack.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Like its evolution in OU Yanma makes offensive teams, that rely heavily on revenge killing and resistances to block potential sweeps, cry. Unfortunately in Little Cup every team has to rely on revenge killing, the shear power of most sweepers compared to the "walls" makes Stall unusable, and even "Bulky Offence" teams are a rare sight. Yanma's Speed Boost ability makes it almost impossible to revenge kill and Hypnosis blocks attempts to revenge wall it (bring in a tank that's not 1KO'd after a Pokemon faints).<p>

<p>Due to this Yanma has been relegated to LC Ubers where it will probably remain.</p>

[Counters]
<p>RestTalk Munchlax is the only thing that can take on the Standard set without fear, just avoiding a 2KO from LO Bug Buzz and being able to use Sleep Talk to avoid the threat of Hypnosis.</p>

<p>Other than that specific Munchlax set nothing can come in without fear, the best revenge killer would probably be be Ice Shard Sneasel which can come in on Protect or as a revenge kill to avoid Hypnosis/Bug Buzz. Other common Priority users that can work are Murkrow with its sleep immunity and Bug resistance and CB Bullet Punch Meditite who can 2KO.</p>

<p>Bulky Pokemon like standard (Non-RestTalk) Munchlax (36.36% - 45.45% from LO Bug Buzz, Oran makes it a ~5KO), Mantyke (30.43% - 43.48% from LO Air Slash, Oran makes it a 4-5KO), Bronzor (52%-64% from LO Bug Buzz, Oran makes it a 3KO), and Chinchou (59.26% - 70.37% from LO Bug Buzz, Oran makes it a 3KO) can all take its attacks with relative ease, but they are all slower and will be hit by Hypnosis. However if the sleep clause has been activated any of those are decent switches.</p>
Edited by eric the espeon, Aug 31 2008, 07:55 PM.
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TPM
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You should mention on the first set that unless you plan to use it as a lead Focus Sash doesn't really work because most people are gonna have Bronzor setting up SR on the first turn.
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eric the espeon
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Ok, also added more sets and sections.
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Beefy
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Troll on Dougs and be trolled
tinted lins? yanma's abilities are compound eyes and speed boost, tinted lins isn't even an ability I don't think
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Vader
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EV's on the first set should be redistributed to be more defensive. With no boosts and a Modest Nature, it hits 24 speed on the first Speed Boost, enough to outrun all of the Ubers, except for Tangela under the sun. It'll also be able to take a hit or two before dying, too.
I use the set as follows:

Yanma (M) @ Life Orb
Ability: Speed Boost
EVs: 236 Def/236 SAtk
Modest nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Hypnosis
- Bug Buzz
- Air Slash
- Protect

With the extra EV's, it survives Ice Shard and KO's back with Bug Buzz or sleep it with Hypnosis.

Scyther can get it early with Agility+Aerial Ace+Quick Attack combo if it has Lum to stop Hypnosis or another Poke is already asleep.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Sleep Talk Munchlax is a counter if Bug Buzz can't do 50-75% to him. A horribly over centralized counter, but a counter nonetheless.

Substitute on the first set lets Yanma lose less often to stuff like Sneasel, especially if they think they are coming in on Protect.

Yanma doesn't get Tinted Lens. If it did, it still doesn't allow hitting 4X resists for neutral damage.
Edited by Chris, Aug 29 2008, 06:29 AM.
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eric the espeon
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"tinted lins? yanma's abilities are compound eyes and speed boost, tinted lins isn't even an ability I don't think "
Yea, my mistake. iirc venonat/moth get it. fixing.

I did put a defensive Ev spread in the evs section, but you are right that taking a Sneasel ice Shard is more important than a bit more speed. I will put it on the main set.

Damage calcs 252 Atk/+ Nature Sneasel Ice Shard V Yanma
Ice Shard 0/0 Yanma (60.87% - 86.96%)
LO Ice Shard 76/76 Yanma (86.96% - 113.04%, 74.36% chance of 1KO)
LO Ice Shard V 76 HP / 156 Def Yanma (58.33% - 83.33%)
LO Ice Shard V 236 Def Yanma (60.87% - 86.96%)

Looks to me like 76/156 is a bit better, it give you more overall survivability in doth defences.

I will put Rest/Sleep Talk Munchlax in counters, also it needs max Sp.Def + Nature and 76 HP to avoid a possible 2KO.... Though there is only a 0.7% chance of it.
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Chris
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I thought standard Munchlax is max hp max sdef +nature.
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tennisace0227
 
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KD24 banned Tangela

Standard Munchlax is Max+ Attack Max SDef, IIRC.
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SDS, Ice resists Water. Ground doesn't resist Rock.
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Chris
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Uh... I didn't think so. Standard Munchlax is used to take special hits, and runs max HP max SDef. Lemme check Doug's stats.
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tennisace0227
 
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eric the espeon
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I don't normally run HP evs (Max+ Sp.def/Attack), but some people do. Its a matter of choice exept in Uber where Lax needs at least 76 HP evs to beat Yanma.
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Seven Deadly Sins
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I checked on Doug's stats, and Chris is right. 70% of Munchlaxes run Max SpD and 70% run Max HP. Only about 20% run Max Attack. 35% run Relaxed, 25% run Sassy, 21% run Brave, and the rest probably run whatever +SpD, -SpA is.
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SDS, Ice resists Water. Ground doesn't resist Rock.
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eric the espeon
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Updated Counters and Opinion.

Anything else needs doing?
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Chris
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You know, Yanma doesn't seem horribly, horribly broken. All of the standard tanks can deal with it, the only problem is the fast sleep and that you can't revenge kill it without priority (while the same in theory could be said about fast Scarfers like Diglett). Maybe in a month or so we can give him another look?
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eric the espeon
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It could be worth retesting (I doubt it will get back very highly.. but..), however I think that Med and Clamp have a much better chance at OU so they should be retested first. I think they both have "Eevee" (or to give an OU example "Rampidos/Rhyperior") Syndrome, near unstoppable attack but so easy to revenge kill that they will almost never sweep without serious team support.

Scarf Medi is a bit different, but its not THAT much stronger than other scarfers.

Also we should set up a system for retesting Ubers at some point..
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