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Shroomish
Topic Started: Jul 12 2008, 05:14 AM (1,086 Views)
Acredula
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Code:
 
Stat-base-min--min--max--max+
HP---60---N/A--22---25---N/A
Atk--40---08---10---13---14
Def--60---10---12---15---16
SpA--40---08---10---13---14
SpD--60---10---12---15---16
Spe--35---08---10---13---14


[SET]
Name: SporeSash
~ Spore
~ Leech Seed
~ Seed Bomb / Energy Ball
~ Protect
Item: Focus Sash
Ability: Effect Spore
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spd) / Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd)
Evs: 118 Hp, 196 Def, 196 Sp. Def
Ivs: 0 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]
Very Simple: come in on one of Shroomish's resistances (Water, Grass, Electric, Ground) which manifest themselves in the popular forms of Surf, Energy Ball, Thunderbolt and Earthquake. If you happen to switch into a super-effective attack, you'll live from Focus Sash. From there you can proceed to Spore their counter or current Pokémon. Now that they're asleep, use Leech Seed to sap their health as they either stay in or switch to a(nother) counter. Suddenly you've just "disabled" a third of their team, and possibly screwed over their wall. From there you have two options: use Protect to make a pseudo-Leftovers-esque strategy or attack straight up with your STAB move. Which move you choose depends on who your team fears more: Evil things with low Sp. Def like Horsea, Geodude, Rhyhorn, Cubone, Kabuto, Goldeen, Wooper, Slowpoke, and Sandshrew, or those bulky Special walls: Munchlax, Chinchou, Tentacool (Hint: don't stay in on this one), Diglett (not a special wall, but has less Def), Abra (another hint, not unless you're somehow faster), etc. As you can clearly see, Energy Ball is the better choice. No speed IV for the fastest speed under Trick Room, which Shroomish does well under. Relaxed or Sassy comes down to your personal preference and what you expect Shroomish to cover. The EVs listed make the bulkiest Shroomish possible, with a result of 25/15/16 or 25/16/15. Effect Spore is there for any physical attackers, as the 30% something will come in handy more often than the recovery granted by Poison Heal. Beware that Effect Spore can ruin Shroomish's ability to Spore.

[SET]
Name: DoublePowder/Shuffler
~ Spore
~ Toxic / Stun Spore
~ Fake Tears / Charm / Protect
~ Energy Ball / Seed Bomb / Giga Drain
Item: Oran Berry
Ability: Effect Spore
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spd) / Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd)
Evs: 118 Hp, 196 Def, 196 Sp. Def
Ivs: 0 Spd

[SET COMMENTS]

Once again, come in on one of Shroomish's four resistances to popular moves (Surf, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Energy Ball) and use Spore. If you already know the opponent has an Insomnia Pokémon, feel free to Toxic or Stun Spore instead. Now that's over, they'll probably switch, so you can Spore/Toxic/Stun Spore the next Pokémon. Now, look at what you're opponent has brought in. If it's something like Abra who completely backfired your strategy, get out of there (ergo: you didn't use Spore on it). If it's a physical attacker and you can survive a turn or two of combat, use Charm or Fake Tears and hope they switch. Or you can nix both the stat moves for Protect, which maximizes the damage they take from Toxic. Oran Berry is here for instant recovery instead of Focus Sash. Because you lack Focus Sash, you can't come in on a stat up move, but instead on a choice move (preferably scarfed) that Shroomish resists. As for your attacking moves, Energy Ball and Giga Drain take advantage of Fake Tears, but Seed Bomb is there too if you feel like using it for some reason. Giga Drain is also Shroomish's only healing option on this set, although it does only have 60 Base Power. The nature is up to you again, as Shroomish works best in Trick Room, so make sure you have a -spd nature.

[SET]
Name: Physical Heal
~ Spore
~ Wake-Up Slap / Substitute
~ Façade
~ Seed Bomb
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Adamant (+ Atk, - Sp. Atk) / Brave (+ Atk, - Spd)
Evs: 196 Hp, 196 Atk, 116 (Sp.) Def

[SET COMMENTS]

Crazy enough, Shroomish has a decent enough physical movepool. This is one time you'll actually get more benefit out of Toxic Orb, because it does three things: 1) It activates Poison Heal, 2) It boosts the power of Façade to 140, and 3) it makes Shroomish a great status absorber. This set-up is very simple. Come on in Shroomish's resistances or during a revenge kill and Spore the opponent. Watch as Toxic Orb activates Poison Heal and Façade. Depending on their type, you have several options. If they're Normal typed, Spore followed by Wake-Up Slap is the way to go, especially on slower Pokémon like Munchlax. If your opponent is something like Murkrow do you're best not to wake it up as you use Façade off of your "monster" 14 Atk. Seed Bomb is only for things it's super-effective on, as Façade will always do more. Substitute can go over Wake-Up Slap, and you get HP back from Poison Heal to compensate. I recommend putting your EVs into Def, as most Pokémon with low Def that Shroomish can actually hit are physical attackers (Chinchou and Abra kill you anyway). This set, as with all the others, works best under Trick Room.

[SET]
Name: Swords Heal
~ Spore
~ Swords Dance
~ Façade
~ Seed Bomb / Wake-Up Slap / Substitute
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Adamant (+ Atk, - Sp. Atk) / Brave (+ Atk, - Spd)
Evs: 196 Hp, 196 Atk, 116 (Sp.) Def

[SET COMMENTS]

This is a slight variation on the above, and should be used as a counter to Munchlax, Wynaut or Trapinch, and sometimes Diglett. The first turn is the same: Spore. Next, Swords Dance and proceed to sweep. A 140 Base Power attack coming off of 28 Atk and something relatively sturdy is something to fear indeed, especially when said attack is only resisted by ghost Pokémon (Just think of Heracross's Façade, only a lot less powerful). That being said, Gastly completely screws this set over, as the best you can hope to do is sleep it and SD up twice and "hurt" it with Seed Bomb. For this reason, Wake-up Slap is discouraged, but if you think it's actually worth it, go right ahead, but I'm just listing it for the sake of it. If you're totally paranoid about Pursuit Murkrow, Substitute could also be used on the switch so you can SD behind it. The only downside is you use your STAB Move and Gastly really walls you this time. If you want to use Substitute, don't use Swords Dance *points at above set*. Adding Swords Dance to use on the switch is definitely worth the loss of coverage against Dark and Normal types (Façade does more anyway), so I suggest this set over the above one. Trick Room is your friend.

[SET]
Name: SubSeed
~ Spore
~ Substitute
~ Leech Seed
~ Sludge Bomb / Giga Drain
Item: Toxic Orb
Ability: Poison Heal
Nature: Relaxed (+ Def, - Spd) / Sassy (+ Sp. Def, - Spd)
Evs: 118 Hp/Sp. Atk, 196 Def, 196 Sp. Def

[SET COMMENTS]

This is a slightly more workable set than the above one. SubSeeding is super-annoying, and with Spore added to the mix it becomes even more annoying, not to mention Poison Heal. Spore the first turn, Leech Seed the next and Substitute the third, or some variation of that. If you come into a grass type, use Sludge Bomb (if you have it) or Spore and switch out to something better than Shroomish. Giga Drain is more useful, and after STAB it has the same Base Power as Sludge Bomb. The two attacks now have the same amount of PP, the only difference is that Sludge Bomb will probably poison (and therefore ruin your chances of sleeping them) and Giga Drain drains even more health, therefore healing you even more. It is super gimmicky, but you could use a Big Root and Effect Spore on this set to further boost the power of Giga Drain, but the extra Hp from Poison Heal is too good to pass up. With Leech Seed and Poison Heal, you will everagly get 5/6 HP healed each turn, which is far better than Oran Berry. The Sp. Atk EVs are suggested over the HP ones because the less HP you have, the more % you can heal with your attacks, and therefore have more Substitutes. beware: that 16 PP wears out pretty quickly.

[Other Options]
<p>Instead of listing all of Shroomish's great attacks, I'll instead list what you <b>should not</b> use. Shroomish has a decent (although limited) Sp. Attacking movepool, although you'll be darned if you can do any damage with that, even with Choice Specs. Worry Seed is useful to mess up your opponent, but than you can't Spore them. Refresh would be mentioned, if it wasn't banned on Shroomish in Little Cup. Mimic is also sort of gimmicky, and could be useful against...not much. Besides, Mimic is a 3rd Gen move tutor move so you can't give her Poison Heal. If Shroomish didn't have Poison Heal, Safeguard would be a nice addition. Shroomish has better things to than use Hidden Power, even if it does let you damage Gastly on the Physical Heal set. Shroomish doesn't have the speed to set up Sunny Day, and Solarbeam is too hard with Snover and that fat Hippopotamus running all over the place. If you feel like disrupting the opponent that much, you could use Secret Power over Façade, but the loss of power isn't worth it of all. Snatch is interesting and the only thing you should actually consider using that hasn't already been listed on a set. Grass Knot is too weak, and Swagger/Stun Spore is too risky. Speaking of Stun Spore, it is usable, but it won't fix any of Shroomish's problems. Use it on the Double Powder Set only, because Spore is infinitely more useful. </p>

[EVs]
<p>Always go with the listed EVs on the sets. Anything else won't work as well as you thought it might.</p>

[Opinion]
<p>Shroomish deserves better than what it has, which is saying something. Game Freak seems to hate Shroomish and gave it all this great stuff to use and boast about, but always one thing that totally ruined it. If she had 10 more in all of it's stats, Shroomish would be a monster; if she got Reflect and Light Screen she would be a decent team supporter; if she got Thief, Shadow Ball or Sucker Punch Abra and Gastly would own her a little bit less. Shroomish got none of these. However, her good points are many. Shroomish has access to probably the most broken move in the game (sorry Double Team): Spore. With Spore, Shroomish is like a monster that's almost as threatening as Jigglypuff in Season 1 of the animé, putting everything in sight to sleep or poisoning it. (Stupid Sleep Clause >.<.) The fact that she gets a nice physical movepool is plus, as most people view grass types as special attackers. The ability to completely screw over Munchlax (without Fire Blast) and many other walls is a great plus. Poison Heal is an awesome ability, and Façade makes it all better. Shroomish can counter a lot of the most useful standards, and in turn is countered by other standards with relative ease. Shroomish does get overshadowed by Budew in terms of your defensive Grass type that's slower than crap, so when using Shroomish, make her different from Budew, which is what the above sets do. </p>

[Counters]
<p>This is another part where I tell you not to shy away from Shroomish because she's easily countered once Sleep Clause is activated. </p>

<p>Abra has been mentioned several times throughout the analysis, and rightfully so it should. Abra will not enjoy a sleep from Spore, but otherwise Shroomish had better go hide under a rock or in a hole, because Psychic or HP [Fire] will leave a large dent in Shroomish's Hp, and by dent I mean KO. With Rock Slide, Cranidos isn't a pal either, and it is faster than you. Under Trick Room, though, Seed Bomb, Energy Ball and Fake Tears hurt, and if you happen to have Charm it won't like that either. </p>

<p>Bronzor running HP [Fire] are real pains, but otherwise they can't really touch you due to the loss of moves. If it has Ice Punch / HP [Ice], Elekid really hurts too, and even if it doesn't, Cross Chop still hurts, and so will Fire Punch. </p>

<p>Any Murkrow running Insomnia over Strong Luck will completely screw over Shroomish, as Drill Peck is at least a 2KO. Along with Murkrow is Early Bird Doduo, who also sports Drill Peck. Along with those two goes almost every flying type in the Little Cup, and none of these aren't always packing one or two moves that can really hurt Shroomish.</p>

<p>If using Giga Drain or Energy Ball, Tentacool likes to come in and use Sludge Bomb, especially on Giga Drain and Leech Seed because of Liquid Ooze. Dratini with Substitute or Safeguard ruins Shroomish's Spore strategy forever, and Outrage hurts. Along with Dratini goes Bagon, who resists Grass attacks and has Fire Fang/Blast, as well as Dragon Claw/Draco Meteor. </p>

<p>Diglett can come in with a CB'ed Aerial Ace, but beware of STAB grass moves. Chinchou absorbs special assaults with ease, and Ice Beam will hurt. Watch out for Seed Bomb or Façade.</p>

<p>Staryu, Swablu, and Budew don't care about Spore because of Natural Cure, and all can damage Shroomish well, particularly the first two. Drowzee, Murkrow, Hoothoot and Shuppet absorb Spore with Insomnia, and the latter three don't really care about grass attacks, as they simply shrug them off. Hoothoot has Hypnosis to hit back with.</p>

<p>Despite being a fellow pure Grass type form the 3rd Gen, Treecko harbors nothing but hate for Shroomish in the form of Hidden Power Fire. Gastly has STAB Sludge Bomb and a new and improved Hypnosis, along with several toys in the form of Explosion, Hidden Power [Ice] and the stat-lowering Shadow Ball. </p>

<p>Instead of going through even more fire types, Pokémon that commonly use Sludge Bomb and HP [Fire/Ice], and other random ice types, I'll just say if you are one of the aforementioned, chances are Shroomish does not want to switch into you, and does not want you to switch into a non-spore attack. </p>
Edited by Acredula, Jul 16 2008, 01:23 AM.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Leech Seed takes a good 2 or 3 HP in Little Cup. It's generally much less useful than in OU, except maybe on a Sub Seed set.

Poison Heal's 1/8 recovery is usually 3 HP, which actually means that if you live >3 turns you'll outdo Oran Berry. Cool!

Why is Refresh banned on Shroomish?

You can EV train at Level 5 and use the Box Trick to force the EVs ta take effect. Any EV spread is possible on any Pokémon at Level 5.

Stun Spore fixes Shroomish's "slow as balls" problem very well.
Edited by Chris, Jul 12 2008, 05:30 AM.
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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squirtleboy12
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Chris
Jul 12 2008, 05:26 AM
Leech Seed takes a good 2 or 3 HP in Little Cup. It's generally much less useful than in OU, except maybe on a Sub Seed set.

Poison Heal's 1/8 recovery is usually 3 HP, which actually means that if you live >3 turns you'll outdo Oran Berry. Cool!

Why is Refresh banned on Shroomish?

You can EV train at Level 5 and use the Box Trick to force the EVs ta take effect. Any EV spread is possible on any Pokémon at Level 5.

Stun Spore fixes Shroomish's "slow as balls" problem very well.
thats weird according to smogon's move guide shromish cannot learn refresh in any way,inserebiis pokedex it also dosnt show it as a level-up,egg move or tm..
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^This is what happens to people like this^
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Cooper
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Smiles are free

You might want to mention earlier on that your sets work best under Trick Room. For the entire time I was reading the first set comments, I was thinking "How on earth am I supposed to get a Spore in after my Focus Sash goes away with 35 base speed?"

I would remove the Stall set altogether. Not only do you talk about how bad it is, there's no way it can successfully stall with 60/60/60 and Rest.
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Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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Acredula
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Refresh is an XD Gale of Darkness move and therefore banned on Shroomish in LC.

Leech Seed + Poison Heal would be a good set to "stall," since they together recover 5 HP.

Fixed some typos and took Coop's suggestions.
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alive
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stop changing this

i think you should add substitute as an option over seed bomb/wake-up slap on the swords heal set. sure, your still walled by gastly but you could also advise them to carry pursuit murkrow on their team.

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Acredula
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Okay. Substitute is a nice way to hide from Pursuit.

EDIT: Do I get the award for largest Counters section? lol
Edited by Acredula, Jul 14 2008, 02:12 AM.
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Acredula
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*double post*

Is this analysis done?
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Paragraphs are a bit run-on, try and split them up as well as fix a bit of grammar here and there.
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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