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Machop
Topic Started: Jun 27 2008, 08:11 PM (1,416 Views)
Cooper
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Smiles are free

Machop
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Code:
 
Stats Base Min- Min Max Max+
HP----70---N/A--23--26--N/A
Atk---80---12---14--17--18
Def---50---9----11--14--15
SpA---35---9----10--13--14
SpD---35---9----10--13--14
Spd---35---9----10--13--14


[SET]
Name: Gutsy Sweeper
move 1: Close Combat
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Payback
move 4: Bullet Punch/Protect
item: Flame Orb/Toxic Orb
ability: Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP/196 Atk/118 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Your standard Guts sweeper, but boy, does this one pack a wallop! As you will see in the damage calcs below, there aren't a whole lot of things this little guy doesn't KO. Close Combat is the strongest recoil-less attack in the game, barring Adaptability Last Resort or Flail, and with it, no living pokemon can stand before the mighty Machop. That is why we use Payback for the unliving. It's not the strongest attack you could have, especially since you have no STAB, but with your low speed and high defenses, it's likely that you'll survive long enough to hit with double the power. Ice Punch kills off Flyers, even Gligar. The last move is really your call. Bullet Punch is STAB-less, but a priority move none the less. Protect is great if you run Machop as a lead and don't want to risk being Hypnotized before your Orb can activate.</p>

[DAMAGE CALCS]

vs. Onix: 139.13% - 160.87% (Close Combat, 252 HP/Def Onix)

vs. Bronzor: 84.00% - 100.00% (Close Combat, 252 HP/Def Bronzor)

vs. Gastly: 126.32% - 147.37% (Payback)

vs. Duskull: 76.19% - 85.71% (Payback, 252 HP Duskull)

vs. Gligar: 130.77% - 153.85% (Ice Punch, 252 HP/Def Gligar)

vs. Murkrow: 140.91% - 163.64% (Ice Punch)

[SET]
Name: Choice Band
move 1: Dynamicpunch/Close Combat
move 2: Payback/Bullet Punch
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Sleep Talk
item: Choice Band
ability: No Guard/Guts
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP/196 Atk/118 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Do you like dealing as much damage as you possibly can? Then this is the set for you. Since the primary focus here isn't boosting your attack through ability, the wise choice is to run No Guard, giving you a 150 base (with STAB) Confusion-inducing move, guaranteed to hit. Note that while YOUR attacks always hit the mark, your opponents' do too. No more relying on that 30% miss ratio for Hypnosis, which is why you have Sleep Talk. Machop makes a great status absorber, so feel free to switch it into Meowths, Murkrows, and Poliwags.</p>

<p>If you plan on leading with this, I'd highly recommend switching Dynamicpunch with CC and running Guts. Take advantage of an early Hypnosis to get a CB and Guts boost, increasing your attack by 125%.</p>

[SET]
Name: Choice Scarf
move 1: Dynamicpunch
move 2: Payback
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Rock Slide/Fire Punch
item: Choice Scarf
ability: No Guard
nature: Jolly
evs: 236 Spd/196 Atk/38 Def/36 HP

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>I've said before that Machop has pitiful speed, but it's really not that bad. With a positive nature and max EVs it hits 14, which means that with a Scarf your speed reaches 21, and you will outspeed any non-Scarfer. As such, No Guard over Guts; nothing running Scarf has Hypnosis, WoW, or ANY status move for that matter. Rock Slide/Fire Punch is filler. They both hit Bug for super effective damage, and Fire Punch deals SE damage to Bronzor. However, RS has an impressive 30% flinch rate that shouldn't be overlooked.</p>

<p>As for the EVs, after maxing attack and speed, you don't have enough to raise either defense or HP two points, but you can raise them both by one.</p>

[SET]
Name: Bulk Up
move 1: Dynamicpunch/Close Combat
move 2: Ice Punch
move 3: Payback/Bullet Punch
move 4: Bulk Up
item: Oran Berry/Flame Orb
ability: No Guard/Guts
nature: Careful
evs: 196 HP/196 Atk/76 SpD/36 Def

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>I'm fairly certain that GameFreak game designers don't play Little Cup, or they would've seen from the start what a HUGE mistake it was to give something with Machop's stats Bulk Up. At the start, you've got 17 attack, 12 in each defense, and 26 HP. Right there you're causing your opponent to sweat a bit. After a Bulk Up, you're now a physical tank that laughs at your opponents' pitiful attempts to stop you. Not only do you have extensive type coverage, you've got a priority move, Confusion, and the raw power of your awesome hairstyle.</p>

<p>Should you choose to run Guts instead of No Gaurd, change your item to Flame Orb and Dynamicpunch to Close Combat.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]

<p>SubPunching is an option, delivering a 225 BP attack from behind a 5 HP sub. If you don't see the merit of Confusion, Cross Chop is an excellent replacement over Dynamicpunch, giving you a STAB attack with a high critical hit ratio. Poison Jab is an interesting attack with a 30% chance of poison, but Ice Punch provides much better type coverage. Counter could be fun, especially since Machop has a respectable 50 defense base.</p>

<p>Machop would be right at home on a Trick Room team, with such a low speed and great, hard-hitting attacks. You can basically give any set (besides the Scarf) a Brave nature, 0 speed IVs, and you'll be good to go.</p>

<p>After some testing on shoddy, it has been discovered that running Coba berry will let you survive Murkrow's Pluck, taking roughly 60% damage. This could be a great option if you manage to switch in on a Sucker Punch, allowing you to KO with Ice Punch. Note that Drill Peck can OHKO through the berry, but won't always. Payapa Berry is also a good choice if you want to KO Abra with Payback.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Not much to say here. Both attack and HP max out at 196, leaving you free to invest in defenses. With the 118 points you have left, you can increase defense by 2 at a neutral nature, but special defense only by 1, which explains the point distribution on the Bulk Up set.</p>

[OPINION]

<p>Machop, get out of my dreams and onto my team. There's literally nothing wrong with this thing. Sure the speed could be higher, and I'd love a better special defense base as much as the next guy, but for all intents and purposes, Machop takes hits and deals them right back. The variety between his spreads, while not drastic at first look, is noticeable once you play with them, and any one of them allows a different kind of sweep. But even low speed finds a purpose in Payback.</p>

[COUNTERS]

<p>As with any Choice set, there will always be something ready to take advantage of the item. Ghosts can switch in freely on Dynamicpunch, but they are the only ones. Abra takes a minimum of 94% from the attack, and won't enjoy trying to Psychic through Confusion.</p>

<p>The only way to really kill Machop is revenge killing. Anything faster has a decent shot, particularly with a Flying or Psychic attack. Specs Abra is a nice revenge killer, as is Taillow. Although, if allowed to get Bulk Ups in, the little birdie will have a really hard time killing, even with Brave Bird.</p>

<p>For the Bulk Up set, be careful of Murkrow. It can switch in on a Bulk Up and OHKO with Pluck if you are holding Oran Berry. Koffing can switch in on a Close Combat with his Poison typing, and OHKO with Sludge Bomb combined with the burn damage from Flame Orb.</p>
Edited by Cooper, Jul 14 2008, 08:15 PM.
Seven Deadly Sins
 
Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Needs a Scarf set.

Adamant is a MUST on Guts, LC is far to offensive to use the nature boost on base 35-50 defences, and the Attack boost could be really useful.

Other than that it looks good to me.
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Someone

Skimming though briefly, I saw this:

Quote:
 
With a positive nature and max EVs it hits 14, which means that with a Scarf you will outspeed any non-Scarfer. As such, No Gaurd over Guts...


You mean 21 speed right?
Also, Guard, not Gaurd.

And theorymon says that there is no way that Machop of all Pokemon is going to get 2 Bulk-Ups, Just no. No. One maybe, then forced to switch unless switch-in has the most pitiful defense ever and dies to bullet punch. And the switch-in shouldn't have pitiful defense anyway, so meh.

Yes, this was a brief skim lol
Edited by Someone, Jul 2 2008, 05:14 AM.
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Cooper
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No, I mean 14 speed. I'm hoping that people will realize I'm not including the Scarf boost, which is what pushes you to 21.

Why wouldn't Machop get more than one boost? It's certainly not a certainty, but he's bulky enough that he could possibly make it work.
Seven Deadly Sins
 
Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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Someone

One possibly, but by then a Pokemon that can handle Machop will be out, and then Machop is either forced to switch or fight for it's life. Also note that I didn't notice that before the scarf it was 14, but it at least note the pushing to 21.
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Dixie
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Back. Will see in the next week or so how much I can contribute.

I will approve this in 24 hrs unless there is any objection/suggestions
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Bulk Up Machop is one of those "overrated" things. One shouldn't be hyping about how Bulking Up twice makes it unbeatable, as its highly unlikely that 2 Bulk Ups will happen. Not to mention the multitude of possible revenge killers (Abra, Murkrow withot that many Bulk Ups...)
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
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Cooper
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Murkrow can only 3HKO with Sucker Punch, and Drill Peck is a 2HKO after a Bulk Up. However, you're not the first one to mention this, and you do have a point, so I'll edit out that line about two Bulk Ups.
Seven Deadly Sins
 
Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

So, say Murkrow switches in on Bulk Up and Plucks Oran Berry away. You die and Murkrow heals any SR damage.

Also, don't switch Machop into Murkrow on the CB set...

Side Note: Bulk Up Makuhita > Bulk Up Machop IMO
Edited by Chris, Jul 9 2008, 08:41 PM.
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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Cooper
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What? Murkrow switches in on Bulk Up and gets Ice Punched. No smart player would ever do that. And Machop wouldn't switch in on Murkrow because there's no opportunity to set-up. If you're arguing that 'Krow is a counter, you're wrong.

Makuhita does not have access to the elemental punches combined with any 4th gen move. Therefore he's limited in his ability to kill Flying pokemon, like Gligar. He has no other options than his STAB. He also lacks No Guard, so he loses out to Machop in the ability category as well. It also has horrible stats. So really, Makuhita is much worse than Machop.
Edited by Cooper, Jul 9 2008, 08:56 PM.
Seven Deadly Sins
 
Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

No, Pluck has 120 BP when there's a berry involved, so Machop dies and Murkrow enjoys being much faster.
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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Cooper
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You are correct. I will edit that into the set comments and Counters section.
Seven Deadly Sins
 
Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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Dixie
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Back. Will see in the next week or so how much I can contribute.

Any more suggestions before I approve this this afternoon?
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tennisace
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old school like Aztecs but new in other aspects

Punishment's power increases when the opponent stats up. Payback's power increases when you go last.
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Cooper
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Woah, sorry, that's my bad. Machop doesn't learn Punishment.... Changing that to Payback. And the power only doubles if you take damage first.
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Banded Gible 2HKOs pretty much everything with Outrage, and OHKOs most everything.
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