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| LCBox: Stage 0 - Moveset Selection | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 6 2009, 04:24 PM (350 Views) | |
| hellmonkey | Jun 6 2009, 04:24 PM Post #1 |
retiring soon
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This is the thread for selecting and/or improving movesets to include in the OU/BL box. Firstly, HeYsUp's list of preliminary movesets: Spoiler: click to toggle We will now work on approving movesets and / or modifying them, adding or removing them as necessary. Edited by hellmonkey, Jun 6 2009, 11:11 PM.
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sdfsfsfdsfdsd nothing | |
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| hellmonkey | Jun 6 2009, 04:30 PM Post #2 |
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retiring soon
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Now, for my suggestions: -Maybe add a set-up sweeper Anorith set? He can either Rock Polish or Swords Dance. -Add a Nasty Plot Meowth set? As for BLs to add, I propose: -Drifloon -Cyndaquil -Bagon -Buneary -Cacnea -Dratini -Clamperl (well I already have it lol) -Duskull -Gible -Lickitung -Magnemite -Mantyke -Omanyte -Porygon -Slowpoke -Squirtle -Teddiursa -Venonat -Wynaut |
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sdfsfsfdsfdsd nothing | |
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| TPM | Jun 6 2009, 04:43 PM Post #3 |
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I don't know about adding Buneary, its so damn versatile. I'd hate to be the one to write its analysis. |
 credits to plus for this amazing banner
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| MGX | Jun 6 2009, 06:55 PM Post #4 |
I think I am a faggot
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is it just me who cant access the spoilers :/ well the BL list seems solid, just thought hippopotas might be useful to add |
 banner by the awesome plus GONE TILL 31st of AUGUST. DONT MISS ME TOO MUCH USE DROWZEE, PHANPY AND PARAS!!! | |
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| HeYsUp | Jun 6 2009, 07:02 PM Post #5 |
Hey, what's up?
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Well NP Meowth and set up Anorith aren't popular, and it's probably because of priority everywhere. NP Meowth is pretty good, but it has trouble setting up with Mankey and Machop everywhere, same with Anorith. As for the BLs: -Drifloon - SubHypnosis (other variants aren't popular) -Cyndaquil - Scarf -Bagon - DD, Scarf -Cacnea - SD Sucker Punch -Dratini - Agility -Clamperl (well I already have it lol) - k -Duskull - Standard -Gible - Scarf -Lickitung - bulky Mixed attacker. -Magnemite - Scarf, Steel Trapper. -Mantyke - Sweeper, Bulky. -Omanyte - Rain, Support. -Porygon - Scarf, TR. -Slowpoke - Tank -Squirtle - Standard -Teddiursa - QF Sweeper -Venonat - BP Lead -Wynaut - Scarf / Oran -Phanpy - Lead -Swinub - Lead |
 Thanks to Legacy Raider for this sig :D. Thanks to bugmaniacbob for my avatar :D. Visit my Little Cup blog. | |
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| Dixie | Jun 6 2009, 08:26 PM Post #6 |
Back. Will see in the next week or so how much I can contribute.
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Click on it. Also check your scripts permissions, if you have something like NoScript running. Comments on existing list - I'd change the Abra to the one currently in the analysis, it has superior coverage: Psychic / HP Fire / Signal Beam / Energy Ball. - No point in having Agility Passer Aipom when it's ridiculously outclassed by Gligar in that aspect; best to use a Nasty Plot passer. - For sure Sleep Powder > Growth for Bellsprout. - AFAIK Bronzor doesn't learn Explosion - I don't see any use for Brick Break on Buizel. Return should be used otherwise - I'm pretty sure Twave/Confuse Ray Chinchou is more common (and is much better at pulling off parafusion) - Doduo's set seems questionable; Roost is meh when you want to be doing damage straight off anyway. Without Agility or Pluck it's probably outclassed by the standard Taillow - HP Ground or Grass > Psychic. Croagunk is likely 2HKO'd by Ice Beam/Tbolt anyway - Change stalling Snover set to the one in the analysis - Water Pulse over Shadow Ball for Scarf Snover so that Fire types don't wall you Edited by Dixie, Jun 6 2009, 08:57 PM.
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 Jonny Evans - Legend. | |
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| eric the espeon | Jun 6 2009, 08:42 PM Post #7 |
vader was here
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Not going to edit directly until I get hold of HeYsUp/hell, but some of my thoughts: Aipom Agility should not be in there. Its on under 10% of a Pokemon that is rare anyway. Possibly in box 2 or 3 it could get in. Anorith SR replaced by the significantly more popular Double Edge on the main set? Meal Claw is oddly more common than BB, but.. why? Bronzor TR as OO for the first set if you have RD and stuff. It can't get Explosion so remove that from OO please. Buizel Rain Dance, Bulk Up > Aqua Jet I thought AJ was the main reason to use BU? Carvanha Sash as an item option. ZH as a move option. Chinchou Scarf is unused, replace with Agility. | Chinchou | Move | Agility | 56.0 | Cranidos Ice Beam>ZH for sure. RP set.. not quite common enough but probably for box 2. Croa NP is more common than FO or IP. More will come, but if I could get the go ahead to make these changes directly it would be cool. |
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| HeYsUp | Jun 6 2009, 10:54 PM Post #8 |
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Hey, what's up?
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I did a lot of the sets quickly, to get a nice base done so we could actually start, so there are obviously going to be some mistakes. @ Dixie:
I disagree, hitting Munchlax Super Effective > Hitting Bronzor Super effective, and Shadow Ball hits Bronzor hard enough.
Agreed, it should be removed.
I disagree here, without Growth Bellsprout is left helpless against Protect spammers, and you have to consider that a Sunny Day team will likely include Oddish and other Sleep Users.
Lol, right. It should be removed.
Well Munchlax I guess, but I guess Return can just go over it.
Idk, losing a STAB is :(. Do what you think though, I rarely use Chinchou.
Roost allows you to beat Physical Bronzor, and allows you to heal during the ever-common Sucker Punches. It's definitely worth it and i've tested it extensively.
I'd say HP Ground, but Psychic > Grass. 2HKOing Croagunk isn't good enough when it KOes you with Fake Out + Sucker Punch.
Agreed.
Agreed as well. ------------------------------------- @ Eric:
Agreed, Dixie said this as well.
I just put SR in because personally I've seen more SR Scarf leads then any other Anorith.
Agreed.
Yea, sorry I did that one fast. Agreed.
Agreed.
I've seen one, but I agree with you if that's the case.
I disagree, you 2HKO Gligar with Stone Edge already, and Zen Headbutt hit's one of the most common switch-ins for Cranidos: Machop. And I agree with the RP set.
Really? I've seen WAY more Fake Out Croagunk. |
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Thanks to Legacy Raider for this sig :D. Thanks to bugmaniacbob for my avatar :D. Visit my Little Cup blog. | |
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| hellmonkey | Jun 6 2009, 11:11 PM Post #9 |
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retiring soon
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Edited: -Changed Abra to Psychic/SB/HPFire/EBall -Replaced Eartquake->Explosion on Bronzor -Changed Agilipass Aipom to NP passer. -Sleep Powder replaced Growth on Sunny Day Sprout -Return > BB on Buizel -Ice Beam > ZH on Crani -Pursuit > Roost on Doduo since it's not living long enough to Roost. -Snover: Sub > WH on staller, WP>SB on Scarf. -Would change Croagunk but I see less NPers out there today, so not sure. |
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sdfsfsfdsfdsd nothing | |
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| TPM | Jun 7 2009, 02:32 AM Post #10 |
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Wheres MixDpur, the OO options on lead dour don't cut it IMO, MixDour is its own set. |
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credits to plus for this amazing banner
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| hellmonkey | Jun 7 2009, 04:21 AM Post #11 |
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retiring soon
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Also I kind of don't get why are you stating OO moves/Items...we're making fixed sets, not analyses. |
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| HeYsUp | Jun 7 2009, 06:13 AM Post #12 |
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Hey, what's up?
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I stated them for reference so people didn't freak out about sets missing. I know we are making fixed sets, I thought that having an OO list somewhere for reference would help new users out instead of making like 12 Abra sets. Do you kind of understand what I mean? I still strongly disagree with two things though: -Sleep Powder > Growth on Bellsprout -Pursuit > Roost on Doduo I stated reasons for both in my above post (I'm not sure if you saw it), but I'll explain further. For Bellsprout, you have to firstly take into consideration its main counter; Protect spammers. Without Growth, Synthesis, or another move of the sort, Bellsprout is effectively useless vs many Pokemon who spam Protect. It can only beat Munchlax with Growth as well (assuming Bellsprout Growths on its Protect). Secondly, you need to consider the most popular teammates on a Sunny Day team for Bellsprout. Among them, you will likely have Oddish or Exeggcute, who both utilize Sleep Powder much better. This is why Growth is probably the best move to keep on its Sunny Day set. Note that the stats showing Sleep Powder to be higher than Growth indicate nothing because the most popular set is the Swords Dance set. As for Doduo, I think you definitely need to reconsider Pursuit over Roost. Firstly, basically zero Pokemon in the current metagame (with the rarity of Rocks / Steels) can switch into Doduo, with the only common one being Bronzor, so i'd be willing to bet Ghosts would probably rather attempt to KO Doduo then flee, especially if its under 80% from Stealth Rock. Now back to Bronzor, with Roost, Doduo can actually beat physical variants of Bronzor. This is something Taillow cannot do, and is forced out. Roost Doduo also gets its Health back if it goes against Lead Diglett (the most common lead atm) because the only thing Doduo can be hit with is Sucker Punch, which it can now Roost out of. Those are the reason's I'd suggest those moves on each of the sets. _______________________ Also, I'd like to post a modified list of my BL suggestions: -Drifloon - SubHypnosis (other variants aren't popular) -Cyndaquil - Scarf -Bagon - DD, Scarf -Cacnea - SD Sucker Punch -Dratini - Agility -Clamperl - Restalk -Duskull - Standard -Gible - Scarf -Lickitung - bulky Mixed attacker. -Magnemite - Scarf, Steel Trapper. -Mantyke - Sweeper, Bulky. -Omanyte - Rain, Support. -Porygon - Scarf, TR. -Slowpoke - Tank -Squirtle - Standard Double Priority -Venonat - BP Lead -Wynaut - Scarf / Oran -Phanpy - Lead -Swinub - Lead -Eevee - Life Orb -Oddish - Bulky Sunny Day Edited by HeYsUp, Jun 7 2009, 06:17 AM.
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Thanks to Legacy Raider for this sig :D. Thanks to bugmaniacbob for my avatar :D. Visit my Little Cup blog. | |
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| Dixie | Jun 7 2009, 02:09 PM Post #13 |
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Back. Will see in the next week or so how much I can contribute.
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IN reply to your previous post, Hey
Psychic has 135 BP and HP Fighting has 140 so there's not really much point unless you miss out on a 2HKO/3HKO or whatever which is pretty moot due to it being situational with SR and other residual damage likely.
Wall Chinchou is most commonly Twave/Confuse Ray/Tbolt/Surf. Wooper/Grass types aren't all too common. | Chinchou | Move | Agility | 56.0 | | Chinchou | Move | Thunder Wave | 34.6 | | Chinchou | Move | Confuse Ray | 33.5 | Around 50-60% of Chinchou are Agility variants so a good proportion of the remaining ones use Twave/Confuse Ray. Discharge isn't on the list of common moves. |
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Jonny Evans - Legend. | |
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| TPM | Jun 7 2009, 02:41 PM Post #14 |
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Well, it is an equally good set Dixie, and when I used Chinchou, I tried both combinations, and I'd have to say that I like the Discharge variant better. |
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credits to plus for this amazing banner
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| eric the espeon | Jun 7 2009, 08:32 PM Post #15 |
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vader was here
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Lets see if I can interprate the Chin stats: | Chinchou | Move | Thunderbolt | 96.7 | | Chinchou | Move | Surf | 66.5 | | Chinchou | Move | Agility | 56.0 | | Chinchou | Move | Ice Beam | 37.4 | | Chinchou | Move | Thunder Wave | 34.6 | | Chinchou | Move | Hydro Pump | 33.5 | | Chinchou | Move | Confuse Ray | 33.5 | | Chinchou | Move | HP-Grass | 31.9 | So 96% have Tbolt, you can assume that almost all the rest ran Discharge. Every single Chin ran a water move, roughly 1/3 Hydro Pump 2/3 Surf. I think that HP was probably used almost exclusively on Agility sets, which means that it should be the main option on those as 33% is more than half of 56%. Now, if all Chinchou run a water STAB and all run an Electric move, the set is: Thunderbolt Surf Looking at the stats, Ice Beam is more common than either Twave or Confuse Ray. However some of the Ice Beams may well be on agility sets. To get any further we need to make the assumption that HP Grass and Ice Beam were either not, or hardly used together. Agility+two STABs leaves room for one move, and that move should be HP Grass or Ice Beam (not status+agility please...). Ice Beam+HP Grass = 69% 69% - Agility sets = 16% Dual Status is more common on non agility sets, unless a significant proportion of non agility sets ran both HP Grass and Ice Beam. Discharge is extremely rare. sigh.. I went into too much detail again... |
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3:39 AM Nov 24
