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Swinub; SWINE FLU!
Topic Started: May 21 2009, 08:39 PM (1,178 Views)
HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

[STAT=Swinub,50/50/40/30/30/50,Ice,Ground]220[/STAT]

[SET]
name: Lead
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Stealth Rock
move 3: Protect
move 4: Earthquake / Endeavor
item: Oran Berry / Focus Sash
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Swinub makes a great lead thanks to its STAB priority attack and ability to set up Stealth Rock. With Protect to deal with the common Fake Out leads, Earthquake to deal major damage, and decent bulk to take a hit, Swinub is a reliable way to start off the match. Against foes that cannot 2HKO Swinub, such as Meowth, Stealth Rock is the first move you use (after Protect that is), followed by Earthquake and Ice Shard for the KO.</p>

<p>Endeavor can be used over Protect or Earthquake with a Focus Sash to deal more damage to Pokemon like Bronzor who won't take much otherwise. If you use a Focus Sash, you should move most of the defensive EVs into Speed, giving you a spread resembling 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe.</p>

<p>Swinub can easily beat common leads like Meowth (though beware of Hypnosis) and Diglett due to its bulkiness and STAB priority attack. Aipom has trouble with Swinub as well if it doesn't carry an Oran Berry of its own. However, lead Bronzor and Houndour give Swinub a ton of trouble. The former takes basically nothing from any of Swinub's attacks, while the latter is faster and OHKOes Swinub with Overheat or Fire blast. Wailmer leads will also win out unless Swinub uses Focus Sash+Endeavor. Voltorb can force a prediction war with its Explosion, but if Swinub Protects at the right time or holds a Focus Sash it will win.</p>

[SET]
name: Mixed
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Ice Beam
move 4: Superpower / Hidden Power Fire
item: Life Orb / Focus Sash
evs: 196 Atk / 196 Spe / 116 SpA
nature: Naughty

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Running a mixed set deals with some of the Pokemon who can take Earthquake more reliably, such as Paras or Exeggcute. The addition of Ice Beam allows Swinub to actually OHKO these Pokemon, which it can't do with Ice Shard. This set also carries Superpower, which is very handy to OHKO Munchlax and other Normal-types. Hidden Power Fire can be used over Superpower however, to hit Bronzor consistently hard and also does not lower Swinub's decent Defense. Its worth noting that both moves only have a chance of 3HKOing standard Oran Bronzor with Life Orb, so it is still a solid counter.</p>

<p>The item choice is largely dependent on if you want Swinub to be able to sweep and wall break more effectively, or if you want an almost guaranteed a KO so long as Stealth Rock is not down. With a Life Orb, Swinub has a lot more power and secures OHKOes with Ice Beam on the forementioned Paras and Exeggcute, while having two guaranteed attacks makes Focus Sash a good choice for an item as well. This set is much more effective the hail, which lets Swinub to use Blizzard and granting it 20% evasion.</p>

[SET]
name: Choice
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Rock Slide
move 3: Superpower
move 4: Earthquake
item: Choice Band / Choice Scarf
evs: 116 HP / 196 Atk / 196 Spe
nature: Adamant / Jolly

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Without Avalanche, a Choiced Swinub will have some minor difficulty getting past the bulky Grass-types such as Shroomish. However, with a Choice Band, Ice Shard becomes very powerful, and makes a strong revenge killing tool. In fact, Ice Shard is so powerful that it can OHKO even the most defensive Gligar possible. With an extra moveslot, Rock Slide comes into the mix as well, dealing significant damage to Pokemon such as Mantyke that Swinub would otherwise have trouble with. With a Choice Scarf, Ice Shard is a little weaker, but Swinub reaches 21 Speed with an Adamant nature, outspeeding every Pokemon in Little Cup that does not have a Choice Scarf of its own, however, without a boost of some sort, Swinub's Attack is rather unimpressive, sitting at a mediocre 15.</p>

[SET]
name: Curse
move 1: Ice Shard
move 2: Earthquake
move 3: Bite
move 4: Curse
item: Oran Berry
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 116 Def
nature: Adamant

[SET COMMENTS]

<p>Curse is a viable option on Swinub, giving it the ability to set up on some weaker Pokemon such as Bronzor (albeit only physical variants). The main attraction for this set is the fact that Ice Shard allows Swinub to attack first on foes without a priority attack of their own, canceling out the Speed loss from Curse. After a couple of Curses, Swinub can attempt to sweep with Ice Shard and Earthquake. Bite is there to hit Bronzor for neutral damage. A very straightforward set.</p>

<p>A good way to get a couple of Curses under your belt is to set up Light Screen and Reflect. This especially helps Swinub get past Pokemon who use weak special attacks, and even mildly strong physical attacks. With this set, it's best to weaken your counters before you set up, so using Curse right away is usually not the best idea. Once your opponents Fire-type or specially oriented Bronzor is knocked out or weakened, that is the best time for you to start using Curse and hopefully pull off a sweep.</p>

[Other Options]

<p>On a hail team, Blizzard can be used on all sets that use Ice Beam due to the power increase while retaining its perfect accuracy. An Endeavor set can be used very effectively in hail as well, because of the fact that the weather will KO every Pokemon after Endeavor is used. In conjunction with Ice Shard, it can even be used without Snover.</p>

<p>Swinub has the defenses, while packing a decent enough support movepool, to run an efficient support set. With access to Light Screen, Reflect, and Stealth Rock, it can work as a "Dual Screen" set up Pokemon, similar to Bronzor. Even Toxic isn't such a bad option on Swinub while on a team with Snover, because Swinub has 20% evasion coupled with Substitute and possibly Protect, and as such Swinub may be able to stall some Pokemon out. However, while Swinub has workable defenses, it still doesn't keep up with Pokemon like Bronzor or even Phanpy for more defensive roles.</p>

<p>Icicle Spear can be used as a decent physical attack over Superpower or Ice Beam on the mixed set or Rock Slide on the Choice set. It can help with Pokemon like Oddish, who have an impressive Special Defense stat. It also gets the OHKO on the odd Yache Berry Gligar, while breaking Substitutes as well. Beware that Ice Shard will hit as hard or harder 87.5% of the time.</p>

[EVs]

<p>Swinub has all of its base stats ending in 10, so it is definitely one of the easier Pokemon to EV. The Swinub sets always want to maximize Attack, because even though it doesn't have a low Attack stat, it isn't the highest, either. 196 EVs maximize Attack, while that leaves you enough to put 3 points in one more stat, and then 2 points in another.</p>

<p>For the sweeper sets such as the Choice sets and the mixed set, Speed should be maximized next, allowing you to reach a respectable 14 Speed, which outspeed most walls and slower Pokemon. The Choice set doesn't use any special attacks, so its leftover EVs should go in HP to add some bulk. However the mixed set uses Ice Beam or Blizzard, making Special Attack the best stat to put the remaining 116 EVs into.</p>

<p>The Curse and Lead sets don't need much Speed, and generally prefer bulk. HP is maximized, allowing the lead set to survive more hits while setting up Stealth Rock, and allowing the Curse set to set up more Curses. The remaining EVs should go into Swinub's already decent Defense stat.</p>

[Opinion]

<p>Swinub is often overlooked, probably because of its lower Attack stat. However, when you take into consideration that its STAB move has 100 base power, coupled with a STAB priority attack, it balances out. With decent bulk, Swinub can run many viable sets, and excels especially in teams with Snover, giving it perfect accuracy with Blizzard and 20% evasion.</p>

<p>With the leads in the metagame often being either a Fake Out lead, a Hypnosis lead, or a Protect lead, Swinub fits right in. While fitting into the Protect lead category, which beats the Fake Out leads such as Aipom. However, Swinub can also beat other common Protect leads, such as Diglett. Swinub gets its leading viability from the fact that it can usually take 2-3 hits while carrying a STAB 100 base power move coupled with a STAB priority attack and the ability to set up Stealth Rock. One common lead Swinub really has trouble with in particular is Houndour, who outpaces Swinub and OHKOes it with Overheat. Wailmer also sends Swinub running to the hills with its STAB Water Spout. Sleep leads are also quite troublesome for it, so it is recommended that you use Swinub with a Pokemon like Mankey, who is immune to sleep inducing Pokemon. If you are in need of a lead who can reliably set up Stealth Rock and has a powerful STAB priority attack, Swinub should definitely be considered.</p>

[Counters]

<p>Swinub has several reliable counters roaming around in the OU tier. Firstly, Swinub's only perfect counter is Bronzor. With Bronzor's immunity to Earthquake, resistance to Ice Shard and Blizzard, it can wall Swinub all day, while setting up Stealth Rock, Rain Dance, Sunny Day, or Trick Room. Even HP Fire and Superpower barely dent Bronzor. Many Pokemon with an immunity to Earthquake can come in and deal with Swinub, such as Misdreavus, but most flying types have to be careful of Ice Shard.</p>

<p>Swinub, as an Ice-type can be easily revenge killed, as Fighting and Fire-types are very common. With Choice Scarf users such as Houndour, Machop, Cyndaquil, and Mankey running around, there is often a way to get rid of Swinub. Swinub also has trouble dealing with Choice Scarf Wailmer. Craogunk is an effective revenge killer as well, with its super effective STAB priority Vacuum Wave.</p>
Edited by Colloquy, Jun 26 2009, 09:32 PM.
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bahohns
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as most of them -> as most of "its revenge killers"

Looks good so far, I'll look into it more later.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

That whole sentance didnt make sense. I was basically asleep when I wrote the Opinion and Counter section, so there are probably more errors >.>
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Beefy
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Troll on Dougs and be trolled
Body Slam should be in OU, the para chance makes it useful
that is all i got to say for now
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

The thing with body slam is that it doesn't fit anywhere, and offers completely redundant coverage with Ice and ground.
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Beefy
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Troll on Dougs and be trolled
It fits well on the band side over rockslide unless Paras worries you.
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Colloquy
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i miss addie ;_;

Only commenting on the CB Swinub set for now, as it's my favorite. Anyway, I'd slash Body Slam, like Beefy said, over Rock Slide or Superpower if you don't care about Paras for the former and Bronzor for the latter. I'd also mention having Blizzard / Ice Beam in the set comments, as it works really well on Hail teams when faced with walls like Hippopotas who don't take much from Ice Shard. Also, make it either the first option or second (mixed sweeper should probably be last), as it will, I'm certain be first in usage, and is more functional than the mixed sweeper (Swinub sucks balls at sweeping as it's revenged easily, but as a priority revenge-killer it's cool).

Grammar check coming later, as well as more comments.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Colloquy
May 22 2009, 05:54 PM
Only commenting on the CB Swinub set for now, as it's my favorite. Anyway, I'd slash Body Slam, like Beefy said, over Rock Slide or Superpower if you don't care about Paras for the former and Bronzor for the latter. I'd also mention having Blizzard / Ice Beam in the set comments, as it works really well on Hail teams when faced with walls like Hippopotas who don't take much from Ice Shard. Also, make it either the first option or second (mixed sweeper should probably be last), as it will, I'm certain be first in usage, and is more functional than the mixed sweeper (Swinub sucks balls at sweeping as it's revenged easily, but as a priority revenge-killer it's cool).

Grammar check coming later, as well as more comments.
Body Slam is just bad coverage in general, I don't see the use for it ever. Its basically just anothe move for a Ghost OR Bronzor to switch into. I should probably slash something like Icicle Spear in though, over Rock Slide. I'm sort of wondering if it should even go in OO, heh.

I Blizzard / Ice Beam is already in OO for the Choice Set.

The mixed sweeper is also a priority revenge killer, but it has the (much needed) advantage of not being fucked by giving Pokemon like Munchlax or Houndour a free attack when its stuck using an Ice shard. The name is basically what its called, for example Blaziken has a "Mixed Sweeper" but Blaziken sucks balls at sweeping (without Agility).

I ordered them in order of usage / Viability imo. Lead will definitely be first in usage, and Choice Band will possiblity (though it shouldn't be imo) be second. I guess I could re-order them, but from my testing LO is > CB. I'll see what other people say too.

So in short:
-Looking for reason to put Body Slam on, because there has been no reason and it just makes Swinub lose against more Pokemon. It looks like its just a suggestion for the sake of suggesting too be honest lol. (not caring about Bronzor or Paras isnt a valid reason if there are no tangible benefits)

-Possibly move Icicle Spear out of OO into the CB Set?

-I already Added Blizzard / Ice Beam in OO.

-Possibly changing order to Lead --> Choice --> Mixed, even though it's still right imo.

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bahohns
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and a powerful STAB -> and has a powerful STAB in the Opinion. Busy day though, so that's all I can do for now.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Thanks for the small fix Bah.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

lets get these sorted.

Quote:
 
If you use a Focus Sash, you should probably move the HP EVs elsewhere.

Where give a spread, and remove probably.

Since its a "Lead" set, talk about which common leads it fares worse against as well as those it beats.

Some spaces between lines are missing around the first set.

Mixed:
You say Ice Beam hits those two you mentioned, does it 2KO them?
Quote:
 
to hit Bronzor consistantly hard and not lowering Swinub's decent Defense.

lower > lowering
consistently > consistantly (according to my spellcheck)

Quote:
 
The item choice is basically dependant

largely > basically
imo
dependent > dependant
spellcheck again.
Quote:
 
or if you want it to be basically guaranteed a KO.

to
Quote:
 
or if you want an almost guaranteed KO s long as Stealth Rock is not down.


Choice:
Double use of "very" in second sentence. Saying how much damage Ice Shard does to Gligar seems like a good idea.

Curse.. have you tested it much? Bronzor is not something you will be able to beat, almost all have one of Reflect/Flash Cannon/Psychic and unless you get a very large number of boosts, you're not doing much at all to it. I'mnot convinced about that sets viability, but it can stay if you explain it well.
Quote:
 

Swinub can basically only do few things effectively, so there isn't much to say here.

"basically" adds nothing here really, other than make you sound unsure. In fact this sentence could probably be incorporated to the next.

You suggest a Dual Screen set, maybe mention the problems with such a set? Swinub's "meh at best" defenses, bad speed, and typing with a large number of weaknesses.

EVs seems pretty good.

Opinion.. meh, saying its underrated is not a great idea because it may not be even a few days or weeks from now. Swinub has been getting more popular so that comment is probably at least a little out of date.

Quote:
 
With the leads in the metagame basically shaping up to be either a Fake Out lead, a Hypnosis lead, or a Protect lead, Swinub fits right in.

I think saying how Swinub fares against specific leads would be more helpful. "Protect Leads" is also massively general, Venonat, Diglett, Voltorb, and Houndour all run it as a lead, and they have entirely different strategies.

For counters.. Missy can take a IS or two, several bulky waters should have no problem taking an EQ+IS and KOing. Duskull could win out and WoW you. Snover seems like a decent switch.

then its almost done.
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MGX
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I think I am a faggot twice
One suggestion: Either in Opinion or Set Comments you should say why Swinub should be used over similar bulkyish mons like Phanpy or Gligar, what options it gets, what it has favourable match-ups against blah blah blah
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bahohns
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Swinub isn't really similar to bulkish mons though because it isn't bulky at 50/40/30.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Curse is pretty good (I tried it just now, it was theorymon / logic before (STAB priority + decent defenses = good Curser)) from what I saw, though I'm not 100% sure if it seriously needs its own set. It definitely works though.

There were often enough Pokemon that Swinub could set up curse on, like Diglett, Phanpy, and Gligar to name a few.

I fixed the rest, unless I missed something.
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

Quote:
 
becomes very Powerful,

not caps.

Are you sure about Icicle Spear's usefulness on the Choice set? If not OO it.

I'm fine with keeping the curse set, but the SCs need some improvement and expansion to bring it up to the standard of the rest of the analysis.

Quote:
 
Swinub is often overlook,

overlooked
Quote:
 

With the leads in the metagame oftein being either a Fake Out lead, a Hypnosis lead, or a Protect lead, Swinub fits right in.

often>oftein (may want to run this through spellcheck)
Anyway.. I don't really like this sentence, as I said before:
Quote:
 
I think saying how Swinub fares against specific leads would be more helpful. "Protect Leads" is also massively general, Venonat, Diglett, Voltorb, and Houndour all run it as a lead, and they have entirely different strategies.

You need to say how it fits right in, what it can beat and what it has trouble with. Diggy can still SR up or hit you hard with EQ+SP. Meowth can risk Hypnosis. I doubt Voltorb's explosion is not going to deal a massive blow (and it can taunt). Wailmer leads will send you running.
Quote:
 
The only lead Swinub really has trouble with, is Houndour,
not really.

Other than Curse SCs and Opinion, I think its ready.
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