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Grimer; The Sludge Pokemon
Topic Started: May 19 2009, 08:23 AM (605 Views)
Mr Escalator
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[STAT=Grimer,80/80/50/40/50/25,Poison,None]088[/STAT]

[SET]
Name: Curse
move 1: Curse
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Poison Jab / Fire Punch
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer is a great user of Curse. Being bulky with high attack and a priority move is just begging for a set focused around this move, and Grimer's base 25 speed makes the speed drop negligible. Shadow Sneak is a great move for this set; a physical priority move that compensates for the incredibly low speed of Grimer is just too good to not use. It is also an effective move for dealing with Ghost-types. Ice Punch is the best move for the third slot, as it gives you a way to handily deal with Ground-types who otherwise counter Grimer. Poison Jab is the best STAB move Grimer has, with 80 base power and a 30% chance of poisoning. Poison is a poor attacking type, however, as it's only Super-Effective towards Grass types, resisted by 4 other types, and does nothing to Steel-types. This gives you a reason to run Fire Punch, which is a great move to deal with Bronzor. The trade-off is that Munchlax now walls you, so if you have no problems versus Bronzor, keep Poison Jab for general attacking power and reliability.</p>

<p>As far as item choice goes, Oran Berry gives you extra longevity, as you are already bulky and boosting your Defense stat, while Life Orb gives you that little extra boost of power. Oran Berry is generally superior, since it brings you back up to safe levels of HP after you survive Earthquakes and other powerful attacks. Life Orb gives you a chance of OHKOing Munchlax with Poison Jab after a Curse.</p>

[SET]
Name: Dedicated Exploder
move 1: Explosion
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Fire Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer has another useful tool in the form of Explosion. The set itself is very straightforward; the goal is to take out whatever is immune or resists Explosion, and then go boom on what else is left. a great move to use when the opposing Pokemon switches, as it gives you the upper hand on dealing with whatever they send in. This makes predicting less of an issue as well, which is important for a Pokemon with Explosion. If you determine they have nobody left to handle the Explosion, then Grimer should then take out one of the opponent's Pokemon. Shadow Sneak is a very useful way of dealing with Ghost-type Pokemon which are completely immune to Explosion, and priority in general is helpful to any team. Lastly, Fire Punch is necessary to take out the Steel-types who usually plague exploders by resisting Explosion and having naturally high defense.</p>

[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Unfortunately, Grimer's movepool is a bit lackluster when it comes to additional attacking options. Gunk Shot stands out, being an incredibly strong STAB attack with a large chance of poisoning the opponent, but is let down by poor accuracy. Gunk Shot is probably more worthwhile than Poison Jab if you want to try out a Choice Band set. Payback is another move not mentioned that has some worth, due to Grimer's low Speed. The one Elemental Punch not mentioned on a set, Thunderpunch, helps beat out bulky water types if you have issues with them. Running special attacks is not advisable, as Grimer's base 80 Attack is too good to pass up.</p>

<p>While the two sets listed are more offensivly oriented, Grimer has a substantial support movepool. Stockpile and Acid Armor are interesting stat boosting moves that can make Grimer especially hard to take down. Toxic and Protect can be useful when used in conjunction, and Swagger is another fairly annoying move to pull out.</p>

[EVs]
<p>Typically, the best course of action is to max out Grimer's Attack stat first, and then it's defensive stats second. Hit Points are worth investing in, and hitting 27 max is quite nice. If you max both Attack and Hit Points, which is suggested, you can then get two points in either Defense or Special Defense, or one in each.

[OPINION]
<p>Blessed with large Hit Points and average defenses, a high Attack stat, and a versatile movepool, Grimer is indeed a quality Pokemon. Curse with Shadow Sneak is quite a good reason in itself to use Grimer, and Explosion makes the deal even sweeter. The main downsides are a poor STAB and an inability to hit hard enough on the Special side to make a mixed set viable. Speed is also an issue when using the Sludge Pokemon, but priority does help balance this issue.</p>

<p>Grimer makes a great Poison-typed tank in Little Cup, with a passable movepool and good stats. He fits pretty unique roles that differentiate him from his contemporary, Gulpin, who has similar stats, typing, and ability. Grimer's moves and Attack, however, are what set him apart. Curse with priority and a superior Explosion are the key legs up Grimer has, while Gulpin has a wider support movepool. Grimer is well worth considering if you need a little more help dealing with the many Ghosts, or just want a lovable blob of muck that is usually guaranteed to knock out something with it's Explosion.</p>

[COUNTERS]
<p>In progress</p>
Edited by Mr Escalator, May 30 2009, 04:54 PM.
<TheMantyke> who needs education
<TheMantyke> when you have
<TheMantyke> Camerupt
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eric the espeon
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vader was here

How about Fire Blast on the second set? I'm not sure but it may give you a better chance against Bronzor. Also the rule on Smogon is not to refer to pre-Pt stuff, so rewording that bit would help.
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Son_of_Shadows

Gunk Shot is unreliable, but it is his most powerful option without exploding. Certainly worth mentioning in OO.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

The first thing I see is "Curser", and the sets are always called "Curse", or "Swords Dance".

Similar to Cacnea, mention the other similar Pokemon in OO, namely Gulpin* and why Grimer is better / worse / different.

*Also HeYsUp, don't space out your posts so much.*
Edited by Colloquy, May 19 2009, 11:28 PM.
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Mr Escalator
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You are not authorized to do this
@Eric: I'll run some calcs after dinner and see if Fire Blast is better or worse. I'm also unsure how to reword the Pt section, as the difference in DP Grimer and Pt Grimer are pretty significant. I'll mull it over and change it, though, if I have to.

Edit: Fire Blast does 2 damage less max/min, even by changing the nature to not lower the special attack stat. No point in using it as it does less and has poor accuracy.

@SOS: Gunk Shot will definitely be in Other Options when I work on it, but thanks!

@Heysup: I'll rename the set, and I'll edit in a section on the similarities of Gulpin, who is the most similar Pokemon to Grimer.

Those edits will probably be going up with the Other Options and Counters sections.
Edited by Mr Escalator, May 20 2009, 04:26 PM.
<TheMantyke> who needs education
<TheMantyke> when you have
<TheMantyke> Camerupt
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Mr Escalator
May 19 2009, 08:23 AM


[SET]
Name: Curse (no bold)
move 1: Curse
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Poison Jab / Fire Punch
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer is a great user of Curse. Being bulky with high attack and a priority move is just begging for a set focused around this one move, and having already abysmal speed allows using Curse to not have any real downside. Shadow Sneak is a great move for this set; A physical priority move that compensates for the incredibly low speed of Grimer is just too good to not use. It's also a great move in dealing with Ghost-types. Ice Punch is a great move for the third slot, as it gives you a way to handily deal with Ground-types who otherwise counter Grimer. Poison Jab is the best STAB move Grimer has got, with 80 base power and a 30% chance of poisoning. However, Poison is a poor attacking type, however, as it's only super-effective against Grass types, resisted by 4 other types, and does nothing to Steel-types. This gives you a reason to run Fire Punch, which is a great move to deal with Bronzor. The trade-off is that Munchlax now walls you, so if you have no problems versus Bronzor, keep Poison Jab for general attacking power and reliability.</p>

<p>As far as item choice goes, Oran Berry gives you extra longevity, as you are already bulky and boosting your Defense stat, while Life Orb gives you that little extra boost of power. Oran Berry is generally superior, since it brings you back up to safe levels of HP after you survive (removed "STAB") Earthquakes and other powerful attacks. Life Orb gives you a chance of 1HKOing Munchlax with Poison Jab after a Curse.</p>


Good job, I just removed a few formatting errors (like "super-effective" isn't caps). I added a bit at the end because Poison Jab is much better than Fire Punch in terms of reliability. Munchlax is harder to switch into than Bronzor by exponential amounts. (Grimer can actually beat Bronzor with SSneak if it gets it to 52-ish % with 2 SSneaks, and then Curses up to 5-6 and KOing it, though this is depending on SR and damage rolls).

Quote:
 
[SET]
Name: Dedicated Exploder
move 1: Explosion
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Fire Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer has another useful tool in the form of Explosion. The set itself is very straightforward; the goal is to take out whatever is immune or resists Explosion, and then explode on what else is left. Substitute is a great move to use when the opposing Pokemon switches, as it gives you the upperhand on dealing with whoever they send in. This makes predicting less of an issue as well, which is important for a Pokemon with Explosion. If you determine they have nobody left to handle the Explosion, then Grimer should then take the opponent's Pokemon out with a bang. Shadow Sneak is a very useful way of dealing with Ghost-type Pokemon who are completely immune to Explosion, and priority in general is helpful to any team. Lastly, Fire Punch is necessary to take out the Steel-types who usually plague exploders by having naturally high defenses and being resistant.</p>


pretty good again, just minor errors here and there.

Quote:
 
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Unfortunately, Grimer's movepool is a bit lack luster when it comes to additional attacking options. Gunk Shot stands out, being an incredibly strong STAB attack with a large chance of poisoning the opponent, but is let down by poor accuracy. Gunk Shot is probably more worthwhile than Poison Jab if you want to try out a Choice Band set. Payback is another move not mentioned that has some worth, due to Grimers low Speed. The one Elemental Punch not mentioned on a set, Thunderpunch, helps beat out bulky water types if you have issues with them. Due to low a Special Attack stat, running any of Grimer's special attacks isn't advisable.</p>

<p>While the two sets listed are more offensive oriented, Grimer has a substantial support movepool. Stockpile and Acid Armor are interesting stat boosting moves that can make Grimer especially hard to take down. Toxic and Protect can be useful used in conjunction, and Swagger is another fairly annoying move to pull out.</p>


No corrections except for the bolded title, good job :).

Quote:
 
[EVs]
<p>Typically, the best course of action is to max out Grimer's Attack stat first, and then it's defensive stats second. Hit Points are worth investing in, and hitting 27 max is quite nice. If you max both Attack and Hit Points, which is suggested, you can then get two points in either Defense or Special Defense, or one in each.


Again, perfect minus the bolded title :)

Quote:
 
[OPINION]
<p>Blessed with large Hit Points and average defenses, a high attacking stat, and a versatile (albeit small) movepool, Grimer is indeed a quality Pokemon. Curse with Shadow Sneak is quite a good reason in itself to use Grimer, and Explosion makes the deal even sweeter. The main downsides are a poor STAB and not being able to hit hard enough on the Special side to make a mixed set viable. Speed is also an issue when using the Sludge Pokemon, but priority does help balance this issue.</p>

<p>Grimer makes a great Poison-typed tank in Little Cup, with a passable movepool and good stats. He fits pretty unique roles that differentiate him from his contemporary, Gulpin, who has similar stats, typing, and ability, their moves are what sets them apart. Curse with priority and having a superior Explosion are the key legs up Grimer has, while Gulpin has a wider support movepool and a slightly higher Special Attack stat. Grimer is well worth considering if you need a little more help dealing with the many Ghosts, or just want a lovable blob of muck that is usually guaranteed to knock out something with it's Explosion.</p>


Good job again, just fixed some places that looked wierd. added in that Gulpin has a higher SpA then Grimer.

I'll get to counters when you do :)
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Chris
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Abrasive Dick

Yo Hey, nothing personal, but you should probably steer clear of grammar edits in the future. Addie's better at them, and English isn't your strong suit.

(also, you never ever write in a subjective article suggestion in a grammar edit, that's really underhanded)
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tennisace0227
 
Glad that's out of the way, how's the grammer?

Cooper
 
I cannot edit titles. I cannot do anything. Mod me.
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Seven Deadly Sins
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KD24 banned Tangela

HeYsUp
 
Mr Escalator
May 19 2009, 08:23 AM


[SET]
Name: Curse (no bold)
move 1: Curse
move 2: Shadow Sneak
move 3: Ice Punch
move 4: Poison Jab / Fire Punch
item: Oran Berry / Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer is a great user of Curse. Being bulky with high attack and a priority move is just begging for a set focused around this (removed "one") move, and Grimer's base 25 speed makes the speed drop negligible (bad prose). Shadow Sneak is a great move for this set; A physical priority move that compensates for the incredibly low speed of Grimer is just too good to not use. It's also an effective move for dealing with Ghost-types. Ice Punch is the best (overuse of "great move" is bad) move for the third slot, as it gives you a way to handily deal with Ground-types who otherwise counter Grimer. Poison Jab is the best STAB move Grimer has (removed got), with 80 base power and a 30% chance of poisoning. However,(not necessary) Poison is a poor attacking type, however, as it's only super-effective against Grass types, resisted by 4 other types, and does nothing to Steel-types. This gives you a reason to run Fire Punch, which is a great move to deal with Bronzor. The trade-off is that Munchlax now walls you, so if you have no problems versus Bronzor, keep Poison Jab for general attacking power and reliability.</p>

<p>As far as item choice goes, Oran Berry gives you extra longevity, as you are already bulky and boosting your Defense stat, while Life Orb gives you that little extra boost of power. Oran Berry is generally superior, since it brings you back up to safe levels of HP after you survive (removed "STAB") Earthquakes and other powerful attacks. Life Orb gives you a chance of OHKOing Munchlax with Poison Jab after a Curse.</p>


Good job, I just removed a few formatting errors (like "super-effective" isn't caps). I added a bit at the end because Poison Jab is much better than Fire Punch in terms of reliability. Munchlax is harder to switch into than Bronzor by exponential amounts. (Grimer can actually beat Bronzor with SSneak if it gets it to 52-ish % with 2 SSneaks, and then Curses up to 5-6 and KOing it, though this is depending on SR and damage rolls).

Quote:
 
[SET]
Name: Dedicated Exploder
move 1: Explosion
move 2: Substitute
move 3: Shadow Sneak
move 4: Fire Punch
item: Life Orb
ability: Sticky Hold
nature: Adamant
evs: 196 HP / 196 Atk / 36 Def / 36 SpD

[SET COMMENTS]
<p>Grimer has another useful tool in the form of Explosion. The set itself is very straightforward; the goal is to take out whatever is immune or resists Explosion, and then explode on what else is left. Substitute is a great move to use when the opposing Pokemon switches, as it (don't change prose in a grammar edit when not necessary)gives you the upper hand when dealing with whatever they send in. This makes predicting less of an issue as well, which is important for a Pokemon with Explosion (make suggestions outside of grammar, don't edit prose outside of bad grammar). If you determine that they have nobody left to handle the Explosion, then Grimer should then take out one of the opponent's Pokemon (passive voice is always bad) with a bang(not necessary, also ridiculously stupid. Never include this in a grammar edit). Shadow Sneak is a very useful way of dealing with Ghost-type Pokemon, which are completely immune to Explosion, and priority in general is helpful to any team. Lastly, Fire Punch is necessary to take out the Steel-types who usually plague exploders by resisting Explosion and having naturally high defense.</p>


Pretty good again, just minor errors here and there.

Quote:
 
[OTHER OPTIONS]
<p>Unfortunately, Grimer's movepool is a bit lackluster (one word) when it comes to additional attacking options. Gunk Shot stands out, being an incredibly strong STAB attack with a large chance of poisoning the opponent, but is let down by poor accuracy. Gunk Shot is probably more worthwhile than Poison Jab if you want to try out a Choice Band set. Payback is another move not mentioned that has some worth, due to Grimer's low Speed. The one Elemental Punch not mentioned on a set, Thunderpunch, helps beat out bulky water-types if you have issues with them. Running special attacks is not advisable, as Grimer's base 80 Attack is too good to pass up.(bad grammar and bad information)</p>

<p>While the two sets listed are more offensively oriented, Grimer has a substantial support movepool. Stockpile and Acid Armor are interesting stat boosting moves that can make Grimer especially hard to take down. Toxic and Protect can be useful when used in conjunction, and Swagger is another fairly annoying move to pull out.</p>


No corrections except for the bolded title, good job :).

Quote:
 
[EVs]
<p>Typically, the best course of action is to max out Grimer's Attack stat first, and then it's defensive stats second. Hit Points are worth investing in, and hitting 27 max is quite nice. If you max both Attack and Hit Points, which is suggested, you can then get either two points in Defense or Special Defense, or one in each.


Again, perfect minus the bolded title :)

Quote:
 
[OPINION]
<p>Blessed with large Hit Points and average defenses, a high Attack stat, and a versatile (albeit small) (Grimer's movepool is useful enough, its offensive movepool is solid, and it's got options, this is unnecessary) movepool, Grimer is indeed a quality Pokemon. Curse with Shadow Sneak is quite a good reason in itself to use Grimer, and Explosion makes the deal even sweeter. The main downsides are a poor STAB and an inability to hit hard enough on the Special side to make a mixed set viable. Speed is also an issue when using the Sludge Pokemon, but priority does help balance this issue.</p>

<p>Grimer makes a great Poison-typed tank in Little Cup, with a passable movepool and good stats. He fits pretty unique roles that differentiate him from his contemporary, Gulpin, who has similar stats, typing, and ability. Grimer's moves and Attack, however, are what set him apart. Curse with priority and a superior Explosion (removed having) are the key legs up Grimer has, while Gulpin has a wider support movepool. Grimer is well worth considering if you need a little more help dealing with the many Ghosts, or just want a lovable blob of muck that is usually guaranteed to knock out something with it's Explosion.</p>


Good job again, just fixed some places that looked weird. Added in that Gulpin has a higher SpA then Grimer. (it doesn't by the way).

I'll get to counters when you do :)


Italics are your edits, Bold are my edits.

Seriously, man. Your grammar is shaky at best, so maybe grammar edits aren't exactly your thing. Also, Gulpin has THREE base SpA more than Koffing, which means approximately dick, so I removed all mentions of Gulpin's higher SpA.

By the way, Choice Band is a good idea on Grimer. It hits 27 attack and has solid defenses, with choiced priority, a good offensive movepool, and finally Explosion. Add in a dedicated CB set.

Mention Fire Blast in OO, as it looks like it could deal solid damage to Bronzor instead of Fire Punch.
Edited by Seven Deadly Sins, May 30 2009, 09:11 AM.
Kannon
 
SDS, Ice resists Water. Ground doesn't resist Rock.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Yea, I'll just completely avoid those next time :). The only reason I tried is because no one else is doing them <.<

I agree with Choice Band too, its a good idea.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

If you're having trouble with counters, I'll list a few here.

There is obviously Bronzor. There is Diglett who can trap and KO you. There is also Gligar, Rhydon, Onix, Geodude.

Hippo can roar you out too.
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Visit my Little Cup blog.
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