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Residual Damage; Mr Escalators TutorTeam
Topic Started: May 15 2009, 01:16 AM (981 Views)
Mr Escalator
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Opening Bit
Well, during this round of Tutoring/Apprenticing, I had a theme in mind for the team building process. The theme was constant damage to weaken guys into KO range through quick sweepers and priority. Dragonite24 helped me build the first part of this team which included a Scarf Gastly and a Great Wall Gligar, but eventually I shifted Snover somewhere on it to make constant damage. With a spark, I realized I could get both Gligar's role of setting SR and Electric immunity and Snover's constant weather by dropping both and using Hippopotas. I then filled Snovers spot with Cacnea, who has done a great job. Though, I have hit a wall in how to make this team better, and want you guys to have at it. Without further explanation, here is the team.

Note: Under each Pokemon picture will be a count of their weaknesses, resistances, and immunities. At the Closing Bit section will be a final count of how these cancel out. If one Pokemon is weak to a certain type, and another is resistant, it will be canceled out. Similarly, Immunities will only cancel out weaknesses, nothing more than that. Anything left over are extra types that aren't canceled out, which either means an overall weakness for a certain type, resistance, or immunity. Hope this makes sense.

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Team Residual Damage
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Meowth - Normal type
Weaknesses: Fighting
Immunities: Ghost

Meowth @ Life Orb
Ability: Technician
EVs: 236 Atk/76 Def/196 Spd
Jolly nature (+Spd, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Bite
- Hypnosis
- U-turn

Summary: Wanted a good hand revealing lead. With him, he shuts down many other starting Pokemon, and Hypnosis can take someone out for the rest of the game. He also fits in very nicely in keeping with the theme; If he can make it by the first few turns without dying, he can come back later in the game and kill weakened foes with his incredible Fake Out when the ghosts are gone. Solid lead who has worked for me a bunch. Only let down is the accuracy on the new hypnosis.

Moveset: Honestly, its a very standard Fake Out lead. Start off with FO, if it seems worth it, and follow up on either using Hypnosis or Uturn. Bite if I believe I can kill whoever stayed it.

EVs and Nature: Speed and Attack maaaaayn. It's where it's at.

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Duskull - Ghost type
Weaknesses: Dark/Ghost
Resistances: Bug/Poison
Immunities: Fighting/Ground/Normal

Duskull @ Oran Berry
Ability: Levitate
EVs: 196 HP/36 Atk/116 Def/36 SAtk/116 SDef
Sassy nature (+SDef, -Spd)
- Protect
- Shadow Sneak
- Will-o-wisp
- Ice Beam

Summary: One of my "stallers". I Will-o-wisp the switch and protect a bit for Sandstorm and burn damage to do it's toll. When they seem weakened enough, I use my priority to knock 'em out. Destiny Bond is filler, but it has worked before against Houndour. Overall, I wanted a bulky ghost, and it was between him, Drifloon, and Dreavus. I personally find Dreavus to be underwhelming, and Loon is a bit too common. Dour is a common switch in, for good reason.

Moveset: Stall them out with Burn and Protect and finish them off. Dbond when I need to. Destiny Bond was swapped out for Ice Beam, to deal with Taillow and to solidify his place as a Gligar Counter. He helps cover the Flying weakness with this move. By dropping Destiny Bond, Pursuit from Houndour is now usually a solid kill.

EVs and Nature: I geared him more towards special defense than anything, since I was lacking a bit, but he still takes physical hits like a pro.

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Slowpoke - Water and Psychic type
Weaknesses: Bug/Dark/Electric/Ghost/Grass
Resistances: Fighting/Fire/Ice/Psychic/Steel/Water

Slowpoke @ Oran Berry
Ability: Own Tempo
EVs: 36 HP/156 Atk/236 Def/36 SDef
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Aqua Tail
- Zen Headbutt
- Thunder Wave
- Slack Off

Summary: He is my favorite physical wall. His resists are great. and he has copious amounts of HP to come in a lot of times. Thunder Wave neuters sweepers, while doing well on bulky guys too. Aqua Tail beats on Gligar hard, and Zen Headbutt has scored me a few surprise KOs on Gunk and Drifloon. Slack Off helps keep me healthy through the Sandstorm. He's solid, and a good backup fighting resister. I keep forgetting about his pursuit weakness, though, lol.

Moveset: The standard wall Slowpoke. Status and two hard hitting STABs, with some healing to top it off.

EVs and Nature: Geared to being tanky. Hits hard, and keeps on staying alive.

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Cacnea - Grass type
Weaknesses: Bug/Fire/Flying/Ice/Poison
Resistances: Electric/Grass/Ground/Water

Cacnea @ Brightpowder
Ability: Sand Veil
EVs: 36 HP/236 Atk/236 Spd
Adamant nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Swords Dance
- Sucker Punch
- Seed Bomb
- Brick Break

Summary: Another priority user on my team. He stats up and hits hard, most times. Not many people seem to react as well as they should versus him. He has some nice synergy with the team by backing them up with a ground and water resist, while not getting hurt by the residual weather. BrightPowder is there in attempt to abuse hax. Sadly, hasn't worked too well, so I might go for Life Orb soon.

Moveset: Swords Dance Sweeper is my favorite variant of Cacnea, though I originally was going to use him as a Scarfer. Sucker Punch is a staple, but he has trouble versus some ghosties.

EVs and Nature: Straight out attack and speed. One extra point in HP helps, too.

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Houndour - Dark and Fire type
Weaknesses: Fighting/Ground/Rock/Water
Resistances: Dark/Ghost/Grass/Ice/Steel
Immunities: Fire/Psychic

Houndour @ Life Orb
Ability: Flash Fire
EVs: 196 Atk/76 Spd/196 SAtk/36 SDef
Lonely nature (+Atk, -Def)
- Sucker Punch
- Crunch
- Fire Blast
- Pursuit

Summary: From my original team, Houndour is pretty solid. Immune to Psychic, resists Ghost and other Darks, and absorbs Fire attacks. I don't have an issue with his Fighting weakness, or ground, as Duskull, Slowpoke, and Hippopotas are solid enough to take it all. Mixed was what my tutor recommended, and I haven't been too let down by him.

Moveset: STAB Sucker Punch hurts a lot of attacks, Pursuit helps keep the residual damage going smoothly and ghosts in check, and the other two hit hard. Very hard, especially a Flash Fire boosted Fire Blast.

EVs and Nature: Pretty straightforward in keeping both Attack and Special Attack dangerous.

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Hippopotas - Ground type
Weaknesses: Grass/Ice/Water
Resistances: Poison/Rock
Immunities: Electric

Hippopotas @ Oran Berry
Ability: Sand Stream
EVs: 212 HP/100 Atk/132 Def/20 Spd/20 SDef
Impish nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Earthquake
- Crunch
- Protect
- Stealth Rock

Summary: One of the key elements of my team. The minute he comes in, he whips up a storm killing other weather and doing a point of damage every turn. Cacnea benefits a lot from this guy. Anyway, next turn he's out he usually plops down a set of Rocks to hurt incoming Pokemon. The other two moves hit hard. He's here because Snover just wasn't that good, and could pull off Gligar's old job well enough. He feels like inferior to Slowpoke when it comes to actually attacking, but having him do his job is usually enough to make me happy.

Moveset: EQ is a very powerful STAB attack, and Crunch does nasty things to Dark weak Pokemon. They work pretty well together. SRs is a must have on this guy to hurt incoming Pokemon further than just the Sandstorm does. Protect was Slack Off, but I never seemed to have time to use it. Haven't tried Protect, but scouting out and stalling for some damage never hurts.

EVs and Nature: Bulk, bulk, and more bulk. After that, attack is buffed to act as a tank.

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Closing Bit

Final W/R/I Count:
Weaknesses: Bug, Dark, Flying
Resistances: Steel (x2), Psychic, Poison
Immunities: Electric, Fire, Ground, Normal, Psychic

Whats left is for you guys to help me out if you see fit! Personally, I think replacing Meowth as my lead for Hippopotas has some merit, as well as making Houndour a Scarfer, or replacing him. That would open up a space for running a ghost with hypnosis to fill that status gap, but I would lose my strongest priority. Cacnea could also become a Scarf version, as he was originally intended, but I am unsure. Though, I would like some insight to these potential changes as well. Thanks for your time!
Edited by Mr Escalator, May 15 2009, 08:00 AM.
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TPM
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This looks interesting, however I have some suggestions. One, Houndour is using 3 Physical Dark-type attacks, try replacing one (not Sucker Punch) with HP Fight, to hit other Houndour. Also, from battling experience Cacnea works better with Substitute/SuckerPunch/FocusPunch/SwordsDance, well, atleast those variants of caused me the most trouble.
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bahohns
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That set is walled/slaughtered by Sub MisD, just like just about everything else with Sucker Punch and no other way to hit Ghosts. At least Seed Bomb gives it something vaguely resembing a "chance" against it.
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Mr Escalator
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Well, to be fair, Cacnea 1HKOs Misdreavus with an un-powered Seed Bomb, if I gave it Life Orb, though with SRs down and SS, it's already a 1HKO. Dreavus also can't ever 1HKO Cacnea with Shadow Ball unless she gets a Calm Mind under her belt, or Cacnea is already weakened about 30%. He also has that nutty 28% evasion to dodge around with. I ran damage calcs, otherwise I would of agreed with you. He seems fine enough versus her. So far, Cacnea has done very well as he is. In both the matches I used him in, he took out at least one Pokemon. Two in Tallentire's case, and after taking down the guys, he always left a huge dent in the next one. Its probably just that the opponents weren't used to him.

Also, thanks for the comments TPM. I was thinking of giving Houndour Hidden Power Ground if I didn't change him to a Scarfer. I dunno if I should change him yet, but if he stays I will definitely be dropping Crunch for a Hidden Power type.
Edited by Mr Escalator, May 15 2009, 02:03 AM.
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bahohns
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Hm...sounds pretty good. Although my "get raped by MisD" comment was actually directed at TPM's suggestion in case you didn't notice, hence the "at least Seed Bomb". Although, it's cool to hear that it needs a CM to OHKO with Shadow Ball, because I just assumed, "Oh it's Misdreavus; it isn't imbalanced, but it's the next best thing, so that's probably a definite OHKO on Cacnea."
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Mr Escalator
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Yeah, his defenses aren't actually that amazing, so I was surprised that he could survive myself. She can OHKO if she carries a Life Orb, but I don't think that's a common item for her to hold.
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HeYsUp
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Hey, what's up?

Life Orb is actually pretty common, I know at least 4 Players who use it.

However, with Duskull you really only need to Worry about LO Missy getting a Sub up, which you can easily prevent. So its not a big deal.

Other than the slight Missy weak, and even a slight Houndour weakness as well, I think you got a good team down here.

Well actually, you have quite a bit of a Taillow weakness, even with SR and SS it can take out a few of your Pokemon at a time. I'd suggest replacing Protect with an electric attack (does it learn Tpunch?) on Duskull, so it can't get a free switch in because otherwise you can probably play around it. Good team.
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Mr Escalator
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The only electric attack he seems to have is Charge Beam. That could be an interesting move to run, if you think it would be worth using over Protect. I'm not sure, though!

Personally, do you think it would be a good idea to run a Scarf on either Houndour or Cacnea? Having a speedy sweeper when the team is weakened could be pretty good in the overall theme of this team, but I dunno if I want to change their sets yet.

Also, that's unfortunate about LO Missy growing more common. I guess that makes it a prediction war on whether or not to SP or SB.

Thanks for the compliment about the team, and your suggestions :D

BIG EDIT:

In the opening bit, I have included an explanation to the new added material that shows up under each Pokemon. This is a Weakness/Resistances/Immunities count that will show how my overall team has synergy. The final count is in the Closing Bit. I hope this helps you guys on making suggestions!

As it looks, I have a slight Bug/Dark/Flying weakness, overall. On the flipside, I am highly resistant to Steel, resist Poison, and both resist and have an extra immunity to psychic. The leftover immunities are to Electric/Fire/Ground/Normal.

Seem to have Abra under control, lol.
Edited by Mr Escalator, May 15 2009, 07:41 AM.
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eric the espeon
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Interesting to see a decidedly stallish team without any of the common walls.

LO or even Oran/Sash seems like a much better item on Cacnea. 8% extra miss is.. meh at best.

Three dark moves on Houndour.. not great. Do you use Pursuit much?

Rock Slide is worth thinking about on Hippo for random flying types like Taillow/Mantyke who don't care about EQ.
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Vader
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Where is your Stockpile Lileep? I don't know the EVs, but on a Sand Stall Team Lileep is incredible. Stockpile/Recover/Toxic/Seed Bomb lets it outstall anything without a poison or steel typing. After a stockpile or two, BellyWag fails to OHKO.
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Mr Escalator
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Thanks for both of your replies, guys. I'll respond to Eric first.

Regarding Cacnea's item, I had actually changed it the same time I edited in Duskull's new Ice Beam slot, as well as I had dropped Crunch on Houndour. I do agree the damage output from LO is more appealing, so I went with that. On Dour, the move I used least was typically Crunch, but Pursuit was also not used much either. I'm just worried of not being able to kill opposing ghosts without it. I personally don't think it's enough to "scare" a stay in at the possibility of Pursuit, and instead actually pack it.

Of course, this whole 3/4 Dark moves in the set could be remedied by making him a special oriented Scarfer, but nobody seems to have an opinion on that.

Neither Taillow or Tyke like getting Crunched much, but I'll mull RS over. Thanks!

Now Vader's turn. To be honest, I don't know who I would drop to fit in Lileep. Type-wise, it's smartest to drop Cacnea if I wanted to place him somewhere in here. However, he doesn't take Cacnea's place role-wise. My three walls are Slowpoke, Hippopotas, and Duskull, whereas my three sweepers are Meowth, Cacnea, and Dour. While my team is built on doing residual damage, it's not centered around stalling as many turns as possible as much as it is to do enough damage to lower the enemy's team into something that can get wrecked by priority or strong attacks. Cacnea has proven to be a good wall breaker. Throwing in Lileep would take it in even more of a stall direction, which I am unsure about doing.
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