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| Beat Up Team Guide | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 2 2009, 08:06 PM (1,952 Views) | |
| Deck Knight | Feb 2 2009, 08:06 PM Post #1 |
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Beat Up is at best a gimmick in most other metagames. Even with the huge attack scores of Slaking, Rampardos, and Metagross, Beat Up fails to score useful KO's on most pokemon. In Little Cup, things are different. While the average defense of an OU pokemon rests in the mid 80's, Little Cup's average defense is substantially lower. Meanwhile, several pokemon in Little Cup have huge Base Attack scores. Three factors make Beat Up a dangerous strategy: 1. At Lv. 5, Multi-Hit attacks have much greater power than their theoretical combined Base Power. Thus, six 10 Base Power attacks deal more damage than one 60 Base Power attack. This is also true at Lv. 100, but at Lv.5 the effect is much more pronounced. 2. Beat Up destroys Substitutes with ease, making their use ineffective at curbing damage. 3. Because Beat Up does not factor in actual stats, Bulky Scarfers may employ Beat Up and still deal immense damage. Beat Up is a high-risk, high-reward strategy. Pros of Beat Up: - Early Game it does extreme damage, KOing many fragile sweepers. - Pits Base Attack vs. Base Defense, and is thus unaffected by EVs. - Dark type is rarely resisted, and most pokemon that resist have poor Base Defense. - Viable options in Beat Up teams can employ numerous effective strategies outside of Beat Up. Cons of Beat Up: - Beat Up reveals the pokemon on your team (unless you nickname them!) - Beat Up is ineffective late game - Beat Up requires you to build your entire team around maximizing its damage. Beat Up basics: Note: This testing was done on Shoddy Battle. In Game confirmation may not yield these results. Beat Up compares the Base Attack of each your pokemon to the Base Defense of each of your opponents pokemon in order to calculate damage. Beat Up operates as a 10 Base Power Attack by each pokemon on your team that is not fainted or statused (burn, para, poison, etc.). Therefore it is best to use it early in a match before an opponent can set up their strategy. Beat Up IS affected by: - STAB on the User (not team members) - Items that boost physical damage. (Muscle Band, Dread Plate, Life Orb) - Dark Resist Berry on Ghost or Psychic types. Beat Up IS NOT affected by: - Your Attack Score - Opponent's Defense Score - Attack or Defense boosts (including Burn) - Items or abilities that increase Attack Stat (Choice Band) Special Preparations before using a Beat Up team: A Beat Up Team requires substantially more preparation than other teams, at least if you want to maximize your advantages. 1. Nickname all your Pokemon: You can use either crafty names like Bidoof and Ditto to throw your opponent off, or just use anything short. Either way, only your other pokemon's nicknames are revealed. They'll probably still figure out Cranidos, because it does the most damage and is staple, but everything else has multiple viable pokemon in the 80-85 Base Attack range. 2. Place your highest Base Attack pokemon in the last 3 pokemon slots: Beat Up attacks in the order you have your team built from left to right. If your opponent has a Substitute, you don't want to waste your strongest Beat Up attacks destroying it, but want them to hit directly. Building a Beat Up team: Because a Beat Up team is most effective early game, You only need one pokemon with Beat Up. You can choose to carry two, but more is not recommended. Mankey is especially useful for a backup Beat Up user if you scouted Hypnosis last turn, and suspect their lead is Scarfed. Here are the Beat Up users in LC: Charmander Base Attack: 52 Ekans Base Attack: 60 Nidoran (F) Base Attack: 47 Nidoran (M) Base attack: 57 Diglett Base Attack: 55 Mankey: Base Attack: 80 Aipom: Base Attack: 70 Houndour: Base Attack: 60 (STAB) Sneasel (LC Uber) Base Attack: 95 (STAB) Recommended Beat Up Pokemon: Houndour: Advantages: STAB on Beat Up. Flash Fire and Psychic immunity for switchins Sucker Punch Suggested Set: Houndour @ Life Orb/Choice Scarf Hasty Nature (+Spd, - Def) 200 Atk / 36 SpA / 36 SpD / 236 Spe Ability: Flash Fire ~ Sucker Punch ~ Beat Up ~ Substitute/Hidden Power [Ice] ~ Overheat ivs: 2 HP (LO) Sucker Punch lets you get the drop on other priority users, Overheat is for physically defensive pokemon, Sub can get you a free Beat Up or Overheat turn, and also counteracts other Sucker Punches. For the Scarfer, HP Ice takes out Gligar, the biggest threat. If you manage to pass some Speed, the LO variant deals monstrous damage. Aipom: Advantages: 70 Base Attack 85 Base Speed Ghost immunity Fake Out Decent Defenses Suggested Set: Aipom @ Dread Plate/Lum Berry Timid Nature (Spe, -Atk) 76 HP / 196 SpA / 236 Spe Ability: Pickup ~ Fake Out ~ Beat Up ~ Hidden Power [Ice] ~ Protect/Taunt Fake Out can soften an opponent for Beat Up, HP Ice deals with Gigar. Protect lets you scout for Hypnosis and switch accordingly, while Taunt prevents defensive leads from setting up SR. Aipom may also go Scarfed, in which case use your best judgment for the final move. Dread Plate is suggested here because Aipom cannot reach 19HP, and Dread Plate provides the biggest boost to Beat Up. Diglett: Advantages: Fastest Beat Up User (95 Base Speed) Prevents Switches with Arena Trap Electric Immunity Sucker Punch Suggested Set: Diglett @ Life Orb Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SpA) 36 HP / 236 Atk / 236 Spe ~ Beat Up ~ Earthquake ~ Protect ~ Sucker Punch Diglett is the most prone to Fake Out leads, so Scarf is not highly recommended. Protect if you suspect Fake Out, then wail away with Beat Up. EQ for STAB, Sucker Punch to get the drop on other Sucker Punches and Scarfed Ghosts. Mankey: Advantages: Vital Spirit 80 Base Attack 70 Base Speed Suggested Set: Mankey @ Life Orb / Choice Scarf Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def) 196 Atk / 116 SpD / 196 Spe Ability: Vital Spirit ~ Beat Up ~ Close Combat ~ Protect / U-Turn ~ Taunt / Vacuum Wave ivs: 0 HP On the Life Orb variant, Protect stops Fake Out and lets you get a clean Beat Up in. Vacuum Wave can finish off a weakened Scarfer, while Taunt prevents SR leads. Choice Scarf is going to want all-out attack. If using Choice Scarf, set HP IV to 31 and put the 116 EVs into HP. Sneasel (LC Uber): Advantages: STAB on Beat Up Inner Focus Psychic Immunity Fake Out 95 Base Attack Fastest Beat Up User in LC Uber (115 Base speed) Suggested Set: Sneasel @ Life Orb/Focus Sash Jolly Nature (+Spe, -SA) 236 Atk / 236 Spe Ability: Inner Focus ~ Fake Out ~ Beat Up ~ Ice Shard ~ Ice Punch Sneasel in an LC Uber only option. Although it is immune to the flinch from Fake Out, being able to get the drop on them with a Fake Out of its own is wonderful, especially beacause it breaks Focus Sash. Ice Shard to hit Scyther before it can QA, Ice Punch as a powerful STAB. Beat Up Team Candidates: In descending Base Attack order: Cranidos: Base Attack: 125 Cranidos is a staple of Beat Up teams for its absurd Base Attack. It is a powerhouse in its own right. Set Cranidos in your third or later team slot, so its Beat Up can hit a pokemon whose Substitute is already broken. Scyther (LC Uber): Base Attack: 110 Scyther is an LC Uber only option. With so much Base Attack, is there nothing Scyther can't do well for? Krabby: Base Attack: 105 Krabby has good Attack and Defense, and superb coverage. It can even reach 21 Speed with Scarf. Trapinch: Base Attack: 100 Trapinch can trap opponents, but its low speed lets it down. Beat Up teams can work with some Trick Room pokemon and turn Trapinch into a kind of steroidal Diglett on a timer. Sneasel (LC Uber): Base Attack: 95 Sneasel is an LC Uber only option. With immense base attack, STAB, and Speed, it can be either back up or your Beat Up user. Anorith: Base Attack: 95 Can set up Stealth Rocks, and has an amazing 75 Base Speed. Carvanha: Base Attack: 90 Carvanha is a glass cannon, but possesses a priority attack and a movepool with good coverage. Ponyta: Base Attack: 85 Ponyta's physical movepool is fairly shallow, but it adds substantially to Beat Up damage and has an amazing 90 Speed. Doduo: Base Attack: 85 The twin headed bird can dish out some damage, and 75 Base Speed lets it attack fairly quickly. STAB Quick Attack is welcome. Rhyhorn: Base Attack: 85 Rhyhorn can provide some muscle and decent physical defense, though it has quite a few weaknesses. Gligar: Base Attack: 85 Gligar provides good defense, speed, Stealth Rock, and can also Roost or BP Speed or Attack. Murkrow (LC Uber): Base Attack: 85 Murkrow is an LC Uber only option. It just got banned from regular LC. You know what this can do... Cacnea: Base Attack: 85 Can attack with Swords Dance + Sucker Punch, and is immune to Sandstorm if you want to go that route. Munchlax: Base Attack: 85 Where Gligar provides physical defense, Munchlax can be a powerful special wall. Mankey: Base Attack: 80 In addition to using Beat Up, Mankey can also be a good backup with decent speed and lots of attack coverage. Machop: Base Attack: 80 Machop is a little bulkier than Mankey and has the useful Encore. Geodude: Base Attack: 80 Works like Rhyhorn, only with Sucker Punch and Explosion. Grimer: Base Attack: 80 The pile of sludge can absorb Toxic Spikes and use Shadow Sneak or Explosion. Kabuto: Base Attack: 80 Kabuto is bulkier than Carvanha, with a little lower attack. Can sweep effetcively on its own with Swift Swim. Snubbull: Base Attack: 80 Snubull can Intimidate opponents and strike with Close Combat, Crunch, and Return. Teddiursa: Base Attack: 80 Can Protect and start a Quick Feet sweep. Otherwise is very similar to Snubbull, but edges it out. Bonsly: Base Attack: 80 Has to compete with Cranidos, but is much bulkier defensively. Once you get below 80 Base Attack, you should consider only options that help your team in a meaningful way. Notable Sub-80 options: Magby: Base Attack: 75 Operates like Ponyta, but with much greater attack diversity. Shuppet: Base Attack: 75 Shuppet provides Normal and Fighting immunity and Insomnia to ward off sleep moves. It can also Trick Room and Rain Dance or Sunny Day to assist your sweepers. Bagon: Base Attack: 75 Bagon can Dragon Dance and Outrage, dealing immense damage to almost anything. Hippopotas: Base Attack: 72 Can summon infinite Sandstorm for your team, Yawn, and lay down Rocks. Misdreavus: Base Attack: 60 The only reason Misdreavus should make the cut on your Beat Up team is the immunities it brings, and its ability to special sweep. Beating Beat Up: In order to counter Beat Up, you need to have a good lead. Several methods qualify as effective against Beat Up: 1. Pokemon with High Base Defense. Beat Up will not Knock Out these pokemon. 2. Fake Out leads/priority centered teams 3. Fast Hypnosis. Be aware that a miss with Hypnosis can mean a Knock Out 4. Brute force. Your lead must be able to Knock Out the Beat Up pokemon. Having multiple pokemon with Oran Berry and a priority move is also effective, as long as they have enough Base Defense to survive the initial assault. If you suspect your opponent has Beat Up on their lead, do not under any circumstances switch to a fragile sweeper. Focus Sash may save them but once. Final Notes: Although it is not optimal for damage, Beat Up pokemon may employ a Focus Sash to get a second Beat Up in. If they manage to Beat Up unharmed the first time, the momentum from the KO's may be an insurmountable obstacle. Beat Up is a hyper-offensive strategy that employs teams almost exclusively of fragile sweepers and bulky sweepers. Because Beat Up can easily 2HKO any pokemon without Oran Berry to restore health (including Gligar), the earliest moves of the match are the most vital to success. Edited by Deck Knight, Feb 9 2009, 01:14 PM.
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| ModestRaikou | Feb 2 2009, 08:24 PM Post #2 |
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Nice, very very nice... Ah yeah, say if the attack is affected by the STAB of who use it o by the team's components attack. And the first beat up attack (that of the move's user) is special or like others?
Edited by ModestRaikou, Feb 2 2009, 08:28 PM.
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aka DarkSector the haxed thanks to plus for the signature :* | |
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| eric the espeon | Feb 2 2009, 09:21 PM Post #3 |
vader was here
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"- Dark type is rarely resisted, and most pokemon that resist have poor Base Defense." Beat Up should not be possible to resist or be weak to, at least according to Smogon and Bulbapedia: http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Beat_Up_(move) http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/beat_up This also means that the line: "Fighting/Dark unresisted." about Manky is not needed. If you are setting up an entire team for Beat Up, its probably worth at least talking about secondary Beat Up users. With all the Priority and fast scarfers in the metagame, and as most people will have at least one Pokemon that avoids the 1KO you can't expect a clean sweep. "Set Cranidos in your third or later team slot, so its Beat Up can hit a pokemon whose Substitute is already broken." This is interesting and worth expanding upon. The ordering of a team is not something people normally have to think about. The "Notable Sub-80 options:" list is a little odd, I think that since few Pokemon are set on a Beat Up team only things that specifically help the Pokemon that you will have (a beat up user or two, and a heap of Physical sweepers) should be included. Adding random good Pokemon like Bagon or Magby seems strange. I think the best way to "Beat Beat Up:" would be simply to outspeed it with a revenge killer and KO. That or Priority which you mentioned. Its a good start, but its needs a bit more to be really useful. Edited by eric the espeon, Feb 3 2009, 08:52 PM.
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| Vader | Feb 2 2009, 09:39 PM Post #4 |
GoldenKnight says hi
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Interesting read. I'm going to try this out in LC Ubers and see how far it gets. Croagunk resists Dark/Fighting, by the way.. |
i agree owner of #lc, #osm, #lcwifi, #lcwarstories, #lcmafia, #lcubers, #lcwc, #vader, #VARK, #kfc and best of all #fap | |
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| Kannon | Feb 3 2009, 08:37 PM Post #5 |
SDS's official henchman
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Beat Up makes each of your pokemon use a typeless base 10 attack, therefore does not gain a STAB bonus |
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[14:29] <%Kannon> what resists water/flying [14:29] <+MantykeKnight> ice ?_? suck on that SDS | |
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| eric the espeon | Feb 3 2009, 08:52 PM Post #6 |
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vader was here
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Bulbapedia disagrees with you, but I don't know the correct answer. Beat Up is an odd move, I can't fine any really detailed explanations.. |
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| Kannon | Feb 3 2009, 09:06 PM Post #7 |
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SDS's official henchman
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from http://www.smogon.com/dp/moves/beat_up: "All Pokémon on the user's team that are not fainted and do not have a status condition do a 10 power typeless attack on the target. Beat Up uses base Attack and base Defense for these calculations; EVs, IVs, and Natures are irrelevant. Beat Up hits through Wonder Guard, even if the Pokémon isn't weak to Dark. If the user targets its ally in 2v2, this results in the ally beating itself up if it doesn't have a status condition." Also this shows that avoiding status is important for beat up teams. EDIT: No mention of Diglett as fastest Beat Up in all of LC makes me sad. Edited by Kannon, Feb 3 2009, 09:11 PM.
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[14:29] <%Kannon> what resists water/flying [14:29] <+MantykeKnight> ice ?_? suck on that SDS | |
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| mattman324 | Feb 4 2009, 07:05 PM Post #8 |
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Diglett: Advantages: Fastest Beat Up User (95 Base Speed) I would believe that you are wrong, cannon. Edit: Nevermind, sorry I posted. However, you should make mention of trick room, or a pokemon who can set it up. Reasons: Most high attack pokemon have low speed. Trick room is, in my experiance, almost always a good strategy. Even in the nUU. The reason? Half of most metagames are built as "give a this many evs so he can outrun b" Other than that, this looks good. Edited by mattman324, Feb 5 2009, 03:15 PM.
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So I herd u liek totodile? I LIEK TOTODILE! do not email me. it will end in failure. | |
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| eric the espeon | Feb 4 2009, 08:22 PM Post #9 |
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vader was here
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DK added it after Kannon posted. Anyway, still no response from Smogon.. |
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| npchimcharftw | Feb 8 2009, 04:22 AM Post #10 |
Commander of the Flaming Monkeys
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"- Beat Up reveals the pokemon on your team" Would nicknaming them fix that, or does it actually show the sprites? |
 Yeah, Pokemon's my fave, but KH kicks *** too. | |
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| Colloquy | Feb 8 2009, 12:28 PM Post #11 |
i miss addie ;_;
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It shows their actual names, plus nicknames. At least on Shoddybattle. |
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| Vader | Feb 8 2009, 04:27 PM Post #12 |
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GoldenKnight says hi
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iirc, it shows all the sprites in-game. |
i agree owner of #lc, #osm, #lcwifi, #lcwarstories, #lcmafia, #lcubers, #lcwc, #vader, #VARK, #kfc and best of all #fap | |
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| Chris | Feb 8 2009, 09:35 PM Post #13 |
Abrasive Dick
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Nickname your team members and Beat Up doesn't reveal them anymore. |
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| eric the espeon | Feb 8 2009, 09:39 PM Post #14 |
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vader was here
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Is that in game or just shoddy? If it is a shoddy mistake it should not be exploited. |
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| Chris | Feb 8 2009, 10:28 PM Post #15 |
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Abrasive Dick
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It's in game but not in Shoddy, actually. I'll write the fix. |
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