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E3 Info EXPLOSION; A quick compilation of reveals and announcements: NINTENDO WON
Topic Started: Sunday Jun 5 2011, 01:04 PM (4,364 Views)
Jandurin
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your wikipedia description of rpgs is pointless as it is not exclusive

if you want to call every game an RPG then within the realm of all games, Mass Effect 2 is a game...
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Necrotrophic
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justify your viewpoint.

the article gave a pretty clear definition that would exclude it from other non rpg games

its not that i want to call every game an rpg, its just that me2 is an rpg
Edited by Necrotrophic, Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 07:32 AM.
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Jandurin
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A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[2]

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Guitar Hero:

Fictional setting: check
players responsible for action/progress: check
narrative: check
character development: check
formal system of rules/guidelines: check
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Necrotrophic
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Jandurin
Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 07:33 AM
A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[2]

__________________________________________________________________________
Guitar Hero:

Fictional setting: check
players responsible for action/progress: check
narrative: check
character development: check
formal system of rules/guidelines: check
you way over simplified and ignored much of the given definition

you seemed to ignore the following:
1. Narrative
2. Structured decision making and character development.
With this, it means structured within the game rules, not necessarily ones IRL ability to play a song on a fake guitar, which kind of escapes the reason for implying it must be structured
3. Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.
Youre being loose with your definition of formal. What this is getting at is the ability to succeed or fail given ones ability to maneuver through the formal system outlined by the structure of the game. Ability to play a song on a fake guitar wouldnt really classify as this, as you can use other controllers iirc. The reason thats important is because it separates raw ability from the structure of the game, not necessarily that its a controller
Edited by Necrotrophic, Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 07:41 AM.
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Jandurin
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way to give undue significance to overly simplified wording
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FOXHOUND
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Jandurin
Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 06:41 AM
will it be backwards compatible?
Only with PSP games bought on the PSN store.

joe
 
A role-playing game (RPG) is a game in which players assume the roles of characters in a fictional setting. Players take responsibility for acting out these roles within a narrative, either through literal acting, or through a process of structured decision-making or character development.[1] Actions taken within the game succeed or fail according to a formal system of rules and guidelines.[2]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role_playing_game

I am right again. Without going into anything but the paragon/renegade system, it fits the definition of an RPG, moreso than most typical rpgs because the rpg elements are related to the most important thing in a RPG, the story.

So Mario, Halo and Uncharted are role-playing games too. Awesome!

A "COMPUTER role-playing game" is based on the Dungeons & Dragons premise... where statistics quantify real-life situations, and the Dungeon Master (or the CPU-controller) controls the direction of the world, its reaction to player choices and randomness of the events through dice rolls.

Mass Effect is a personality-playing game. One isn't actually building a character and interacting in the world in the way they want... they are fulfilling one of two pre-designed narratives written by BioWare for the story. One doesn't make their own Shepard when playing Mass Effect... they just choose which Shepard BioWare made is most appealing.

You are anything but right. CONSEQUENCES for actions are central to true role-playing games. And this isn't a case of "no true Scotsman" because if at any moment RPG's stop being about the consequences for actions, they either fall into a sub-genre (where other elements take greater focus) or into another genre entirely ("playing a role" can be applied to anything with a named character, including things like Bubble Bobble).

A role-playing game is something where one builds a character of their choice, defines who they are (race, age, sex, background, personal morals, religion, etc.) and then goes on to "live" through them in a virtual environment (either imagined or visually depicted in video games). What choices they make, no matter how ridiculous, reflect themselves in the world as it adapts to the player(s) choices.

Mass Effect doesn't change. It gives you two pre-determined choices that have pre-determined outcomes.

1. Shepard the do-gooder. -> People thank him and like him.
2. Shepard the asshole. -> People hate him.

Even the outcome of the story is exactly the fucking same thing. At least in Knights of the Old Republic, it gave you two very different endings. Even if they were contrived, predictable and bland.

Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines is a good example of what a true role-playing game is, because out of the nine types of vampire you can play as, they all have different ways of going through the story, and different people they can ally with, and different outcomes for all their actions and choices throughout the game.

Don't give me this "Mass Effect is a RPG" fucking nonsense. It isn't. It is closer to being a third-person shooter than it is a RPG. Even "action-RPG" barely describes it properly. Its more of an action adventure with RPG-lite elements. Then ME2 came out and removed all those RPG-lite elements and turned it even more into a shooter.
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Necrotrophic
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Quote:
 
mario etc are all rpgs


No they arent. You are oversimplifying the given definition. The words they used have meaning. I already explained this

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"A "COMPUTER role-playing game" is based on the Dungeons & Dragons premise... where statistics quantify real-life situations, and the Dungeon Master (or the CPU-controller) controls the direction of the world, its reaction to player choices and randomness of the events through dice rolls."


from wiki:
Single player role-playing video games form a loosely defined genre of computer and console games with origins in role-playing games such as Dungeons & Dragons, on which they base much of their terminology, settings and game mechanics.[17] This translation changes the experience of the game, providing a visual representation of the world but emphasizing statistical character development over collaborative, interactive storytelling

Statistics do matter in ME, paragon/renegade system again(whether or not you LIKE that system is a matter of subjectivity, but it does not change what it is), and dungeons and dragons is not the foremost authority on what role playing is, even though the "dungeon master" idea is applied in mass effect while controlling other characters that can be leveledup. Even though Mass Effect applies most of the concepts laid out, things(especially definitions) can, and do evolve. Denying this ends with an argument based on fallacy.

Mass Effect does have less randomness though. Thats a good thing, randomness is shallow, and cheap. especially in game design, instead of deveoping a world where the battles make sense, just have random battles everywhere, then we can plan less!!!
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"Mass Effect is a personality-playing game."

oh god... lol
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" One isn't actually building a character and interacting in the world in the way they want... "
So in other words, "I dont like the game, so its not an RPG" because I definitely interacted with it the way I wanted, my shepard is not the same as yours is, my first ending was more than likely different than yours

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"pre-designed narratives"
as opposed to ONE predesigned narrative in 99% of rpgs? Mass Effect's main story is the same (id love to see a game where you can actually change the main story, and no im not talking about some trivial aspect of the game, I literally mean the MAIN story, or the entire POINT of the game) but it has many different branches, and even with all of the criticisms youve levied against it, it never really reduces to a bad game, its just a genre dispute. You like action games right? Then whats the problem with something you thought was supposed to be an RPG (ironically your definition is basically "mass effect 2") ending up being an action game? Isnt QUALITY whats important?

I dont want to have a noninteractive story. Simply upgrading parts is not enough for me, so practically every single Final Fantasy game is not an RPG. lulz

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"You are anything but right. CONSEQUENCES for actions are central to true role-playing games."

If the paragon and renegade system is the main rpg aspect (aside from combat leveling, which has obvious consequences) then I am still correct, because there are many situations where the character cant progress(either directly, or cant progress the way they would choose to) without being at a certain level within the p/r system. Morinth side story? Miranda/Jack? You are only able to make your argument after forgetting crucial aspects of the game.
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A role-playing game is something where one builds a character of their choice(because you cant build the separd you want), defines who they are (race, age, sex, background, personal morals, religion, etc.) Not every rpg does that at all, but mass effect does most of it and then goes on to "live" through them in a virtual environment (either imagined or visually depicted in video games). What choices they make, no matter how ridiculous, reflect themselves in the world as it adapts to the player(s) choices.

This describes mass effect. You had to have realized that while you were typing.

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"Mass Effect doesn't change. It gives you two pre-determined choices that have pre-determined outcomes."


I already addressed this in this argument, but most games that are called RPGs only have one predetermined path, with the only leveling/changes in regards to the combat. Mass Effect has that, but it has more in the narrative, which is more important than any other aspect of an RPG.

Your entire argument reduces to "I dont like it, thus it isnt an RPG"

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"Even the outcome of the story is exactly the fucking same thing."

Yeah, all 8 endings are totally the same. Especially the ending where everyone survives when shepard is a paragon, vs the one where everyone dies. The ones in between dont exist because you dont like the game lulz

granted many of them are largely similar, but it doesnt change the factual nature of what were talking about. Its not a matter of opinion at this point, were talking numbers.

Paragon ending, renegade, and the variations inbetween. not bad, and definitely more than a bunch of others rpgs
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"Don't give me this "Mass Effect is a RPG" fucking nonsense. It isn't. "

It is, and im right again. u mad

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""action-RPG" barely describes it properly"

so now its partially "barely" an rpg, before you said its not at all... make up your mind
Edited by Necrotrophic, Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 01:47 PM.
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FOXHOUND
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I can't follow that shit at all. Jesus Christ.
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Jandurin
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joe go back to arguing politics where you only piss off jason

also i have no idea which words are yours and which are fox's or even wtf you're doing

can you try to do what you did but better and different?

thx
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Coke Von Cola
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Jesus fuck guys. And Jan won btw. So just let it go.
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Necrotrophic
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Ill put things in quotes when I get home. I was in the middle of getting ready to leave when writing that
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FOXHOUND
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Anyways... back to fucking E3. Nintendo conference.
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Jandurin
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15 minutes
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FOXHOUND
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So while we wait... I started playing Deadly Premonition. Shit is fucking awesome. It is one the one hand, creepy as fucking shit, and on the other it is hilarious as hell. And the thing is, IT WAS CLEARLY MADE THAT WAY, which makes it better. I find it funny how so many "professional" reviewers actually took the game seriously.
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famicommander
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Alright, Nintendo.

You better save this trainwreck of a conference.
Denver Broncos: defending champs, 8-6, next game 12/25 @ Kansas City Chiefs
Colorado Rockies: 75-87, missed playoffs
Colorado Avalanche: 11-18-1, next game 12/20 @ Minnesota Wild
Denver Nuggets: 12-16, next game 12/20 @ Los Angeles Clippers
Colorado Mammoth: first game 12/30 @ Buffalo Bandits
Denver Outlaws: defending champs, first game 4/22 @ Charlotte Hounds
Colorado State Rams football: 7-5, next game Idaho Bowl 12/22 vs Idaho Vandals
Colorado State Rams basketball: 8-4, next game 12/22 vs Long Beach State 49ers
Winnipeg Blue Bombers: 11-7, lost West Division Semifinal
Denver Pioneers Lacrosse: first game 1/24 vs Johns Hopkins Blue Jays
#2 Denver Pioneers Hockey: 12-3-3, next game 12/30 @ Providence College Friars
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FOXHOUND
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I can't read the quiz questions... -_-
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famicommander
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Wipe that face off your head, bitch.
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I DEMAND F-ZERO
Denver Broncos: defending champs, 8-6, next game 12/25 @ Kansas City Chiefs
Colorado Rockies: 75-87, missed playoffs
Colorado Avalanche: 11-18-1, next game 12/20 @ Minnesota Wild
Denver Nuggets: 12-16, next game 12/20 @ Los Angeles Clippers
Colorado Mammoth: first game 12/30 @ Buffalo Bandits
Denver Outlaws: defending champs, first game 4/22 @ Charlotte Hounds
Colorado State Rams football: 7-5, next game Idaho Bowl 12/22 vs Idaho Vandals
Colorado State Rams basketball: 8-4, next game 12/22 vs Long Beach State 49ers
Winnipeg Blue Bombers: 11-7, lost West Division Semifinal
Denver Pioneers Lacrosse: first game 1/24 vs Johns Hopkins Blue Jays
#2 Denver Pioneers Hockey: 12-3-3, next game 12/30 @ Providence College Friars
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FOXHOUND
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2nd'd
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Jandurin
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Foxhound_Fox
Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 09:50 AM
So while we wait... I started playing Deadly Premonition. Shit is fucking awesome. It is one the one hand, creepy as fucking shit, and on the other it is hilarious as hell. And the thing is, IT WAS CLEARLY MADE THAT WAY, which makes it better. I find it funny how so many "professional" reviewers actually took the game seriously.
just like twin peaks was way over the top on purpose
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FOXHOUND
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It is 11:03... y u no start Nintendo?

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Edited by FOXHOUND, Tuesday Jun 7 2011, 10:05 AM.
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