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This is why I'm against the death penalty
Topic Started: Sunday Nov 14 2010, 09:34 AM (483 Views)
NFunspoiler
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Fire to fungi
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http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,2031034,00.html?hpt=T2

tl;dr, the guy probably didn't murder anyone and was wrongfully executed. Unfortunately it's much cooler to say that you support the death penalty than to rationally say you'd prefer innocent people not get murdered by the State.
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Necrotrophic
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change molds name back in 2011
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Given our current system its much cheaper to keep them in prisons. Its pretty hard to defend the death penalty because its so hard to actually say someone definitely did something in many cases.

But then you get guys like timothy mcveigh or whatever and it seems like the only real solution. Its also possible that some form of rehabilitation may be better for some situations. Im not really sure.
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FOXHOUND
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I'm entirely for the death penalty if there is no means of keeping the public safe from violent criminals and their guilt is a sure thing. I'm also entirely against this "revolving door" prison system we have here in Manitoba, where people who are "at high risk to re-offend" are let out onto the streets before serving their full sentences.[cleft=darkslategray][/cleft][cright=black][/cright][pleft=white][/pleft][dl=black][/dl]
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Frattracide's ghost
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Generally, I would agree that capital punishment is unnecessary. I would also say that when it is used, it is certainly not a moral thing.

A few days ago, I was listening to talk radio and the host of the show laid out a pragmatic argument for the death penalty. I posted a synopsis of that argument on another forum which I have copy/pasted below.

The argument:
 
State sanctioned executions should be maintained, but only used in extremely heinous cases because not having a death penalty would create an incentive for a criminal to murder witnesses to his crimes.



Consider an individual who is committing a robbery who, if caught, would be up against some sort of "three strikes" legislation and, if convicted, would be sent to prison for the rest of his life without the chance of parole. That individual would have an incentive to reduce the chance of being convicted which means getting rid of witnesses. If there was no death penalty, there would be no difference in the punishment of his robbery and the punishment of murder.

The criminal would be more likely to commit murder because the act cannot hurt him anymore and it could help him.


I got one good response back that basically said this is really an argument against three strike laws and that there should be massive judicial system reform in the U.S. I would agree that our judicial system could use reform and that three strike laws are not a good idea (But for other reasons than the one stated above) However, no matter how perfect the judicial system is, there will still be a statistical outlier I.E. a type of criminal that will not reform. Even in a reformed system there should be some sort of law in place that would remove that sort of criminal from society. That would mean that eventually that type of criminal will run up against the scenario stated above. In that case the death penalty would work as a deterrent since:

A. It would provide an escalation of punishment between crimes like robbery and murder

B. The criminal's motivation is rational since these kinds of murders are done to reduce the possibility of a conviction.

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Deadlypixels
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Fuck with me. Do it.
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That guy obviously didn't try hard enough to prove his innocence, and besides giving someone life in prison is a death sentence
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whoozwah
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Is it live, or is it Dave-orex?
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Realtime Last.fm feed. I have everything scrobbling to it.

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NFunspoiler
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Frattracide's ghost
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 12:05 PM
The argument:
 
State sanctioned executions should be maintained, but only used in extremely heinous cases because not having a death penalty would create an incentive for a criminal to murder witnesses to his crimes.


Is there any proof of this assertion?

Besides, a robber doesn't go to jail for his entire life (usually). Someone who murders someone else should.
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Frattracide's ghost
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NFunspoiler
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 08:08 PM
Frattracide's ghost
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 12:05 PM
The argument:
 
State sanctioned executions should be maintained, but only used in extremely heinous cases because not having a death penalty would create an incentive for a criminal to murder witnesses to his crimes.


Is there any proof of this assertion?

Besides, a robber doesn't go to jail for his entire life (usually). Someone who murders someone else should.
Consider an individual who is committing a robbery who, if caught, would be up against some sort of "three strikes" legislation and, if convicted, would be sent to prison for the rest of his life without the chance of parole. That individual would have an incentive to reduce the chance of being convicted which means getting rid of witnesses. If there was no death penalty, there would be no difference in the punishment of his robbery and the punishment of murder.

The criminal would be more likely to commit murder because the act cannot hurt him anymore and it could help him.
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NFunspoiler
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I'm also against three strike rules.
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Coke Von Cola
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Some kinda somethin
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I think I should just be the judge for every crime. Everyone that does anything serious shall be brought before me. And I will decide their fate.
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NFunspoiler
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Fire to fungi
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You'd just kill them all.
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Coke Von Cola
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I'd think of way funnier ways to punish people than just killing them. Come on now.
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Frattracide's ghost
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NFunspoiler
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 11:56 PM
I'm also against three strike rules.
^o) Sometimes I feel like there is some unknown barrier obstructing my ability to communicate. Maybe its the way I write. . .
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Jandurin
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Frattracide's ghost
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 08:54 PM
NFunspoiler
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 08:08 PM
Frattracide's ghost
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 12:05 PM
The argument:
 
State sanctioned executions should be maintained, but only used in extremely heinous cases because not having a death penalty would create an incentive for a criminal to murder witnesses to his crimes.


Is there any proof of this assertion?

Besides, a robber doesn't go to jail for his entire life (usually). Someone who murders someone else should.
Consider an individual who is committing a robbery who, if caught, would be up against some sort of "three strikes" legislation and, if convicted, would be sent to prison for the rest of his life without the chance of parole. That individual would have an incentive to reduce the chance of being convicted which means getting rid of witnesses. If there was no death penalty, there would be no difference in the punishment of his robbery and the punishment of murder.

The criminal would be more likely to commit murder because the act cannot hurt him anymore and it could help him.
what about the sanctity of life, man
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-SG-
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For the Lulz
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Not all life is sacred. Someone like a serial killer who kills innocent people does not deserve life. Someone like a mother that puts her kid in a oven or downs them in the tub does not deserve life. There are some cases where killing the person is the right thing to do. We spend way too much money keeping people cock toweled up as it is.

I say(and have said before) we convert all baseball(cause baseball sucks) stadiums into Coliseums and institute violent offender fueled gladiatorial combat. Those that survive earn the right to live comfortably in prison, and the few that become Champions earn a chance at parole. What's that? You murdered a old woman for her purse? you get to fight with a shovel. Oh and you? you raped and murdered a small child, well fuck you buddy straight to genetically engineered chimaera.
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NFunspoiler
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Frattracide's ghost
Monday Nov 15 2010, 12:02 PM
NFunspoiler
Sunday Nov 14 2010, 11:56 PM
I'm also against three strike rules.
^o) Sometimes I feel like there is some unknown barrier obstructing my ability to communicate. Maybe its the way I write. . .
You say that the death penalty deters murder, but what proof do you have to offer that it does? Nearly every other Western nation, if not all of them, have a lower murder rate than the USA, and, iirc, all of them also have abolished the death penalty.

Yeah, some people deserve to die, but I'd rather have them sit in a jail cell for the rest of their life than risk the chance, no matter how minute, that we murder an innocent man (which is the whole point of this thread). We have murdered innocent men before; that right there should be enough to say that the death penalty needs to go.
Edited by NFunspoiler, Tuesday Nov 16 2010, 10:18 PM.
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NFunspoiler
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Not to mention it's too expensive. It is literally cheaper to keep them in their cell for the rest of their life than to give them the chair.
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Coke Von Cola
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ROBOBABY
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Coke Von Cola
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famicommander
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Wipe that face off your head, bitch.
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Shit man


reminds me of that thing that lived under the kid's bed in Toy Story
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