| Right of Kings | |
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| Topic Started: Oct 12 2008, 09:21 PM (45 Views) | |
| Acheron | Oct 12 2008, 09:21 PM Post #1 |
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This is sort of a silly pet peave of mine, and I really hope I don't offend anyone. But I often see people post in RP sessions with lofty ideals and liberal rhetoric. It seems like a lot of people base their assumption of good political authority on modern democratic ideals (stemming from John Locke, John Stewart Mill, Rawls, etc.) which had absolutely no place in Westeros. You can see from the way that GRRM writes that even the best of rulers are still firmly attached to a kind of divine right of kings to rule over the small folk (who are still viewed as inherently inferior, even by themselves). Even the more politically savvy folk like Littlefinger are closer to early renaissance figures like Macciavelli (the nature of power) than they are to the fathers of liberal democracy (the rights of man). idk, I just think that we should suspend our own modern assumptions when we deal with motivations in this world. I could be totally wrong about what anyone should do in an RP world especially since so much fantasy includes these ideals. I am also not really replying to any specific posts, just a general impression that I get. And the players I RP are usually so unrealistically evil that perhaps I shouldn't talk about realism 
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| The White Bull | Oct 13 2008, 05:47 AM Post #2 |
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I understand completely where your coming from, and I know that I played on those very factors in my writings at the Grand Council. I viewed it as a character roleplaying in that my character was bringing civilazation to Westeros, changing old ways for those that he felt were better. It is a good point though that my character has no frame of reference where he could have learned ideas like this, and I did not build up a history from him where he may have developed this philosophical background. That being said if you dig down to it, my strongest arguments all come down to the fact that my military and economical strength gave me a high probability of winning a long drawn out war. Also I don't think those ideals are as unrealistic as you make them sound. I believe that the vast majority of them are present in Westeros, there are just no characters that have unified them yet. For example, Mance Rayder and the wildings very much respect the individual abilities of men and are led by in many cases those who have the most ability. As for not butchering small folk and commiting rape etc, I think it can clearly be seen in many places that these acts are known to be appaling even when commited against small folk. So in a way, I was using my character as a way of combining many things that were present into one unified idea, argued compellingly (I hope) and most importantly backed up by economic and military might. I do like the observation though, as I believe that it is very natural for us to slip into the social norms of today, and to assume that characters in Westeros woyuld logically agree with them if they knew about them, which is most likely not the case. |
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| Acheron | Oct 13 2008, 07:52 PM Post #3 |
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Yea, like I said it wasn't totally based on one post. For the most part this really played itself out last season in the Grand Council. I agree that your character did have good reason to support a lot of what he said and I don't think that he went too far on the liberal side. And yea, butchering smallfolk is seen as a monsterous thing, but I think lords thought of their smallfolk as the good little folk who needed to be protected and nurtured rather than equal human beings. I mean, most slave owners thought of their slaves as members of the family unit, and those who mistreated their slaves were shunned in society.... this doesn't mean that they were thought of as equal. But anyway, I think that your counterargument makes a lot of sense. What I think we both agree on is that it is important not to sound like a presidential canidate when RPing a Westerosi lord. |
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7:30 AM Dec 6
