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Fandom: Are We Our Own Worst Enemies; (warning, I tend to ramble)
Topic Started: Jan 8 2010, 01:30 PM (459 Views)
pj3
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I've been thinking about this for a while, ever since Dazzling Icer posted about being not wanting his/her (sorry can't remember your sex) friend to join the fandom.

I just can't help but wonder if we, the fans, have ruined our own good thing. Not anyone in particular, but the tendency in this fandom to focus on the negative so much.

Now I understand that for many fans how Luke and Noah are portrayed is politically and socially important. After all, homosexuality is still unaccepted and misunderstood by so many people. It's extremely important that stereotypes be avoided and that there be equality regarding how same sex couples are treated versus heterosexual couples. And I will admit that, not being gay, I probably don't fully understand or have the level of anger that they have regarding Luke's and Noah's portrayal. Were I a lesbian, I might very well be as offended by things like mistletoegate or apartmentgate as other fans have were.

I also get that the writing is lousy. Lazy and lousy. (Sadly, this is the one area where Luke and Noah and all the other couples ARE treated equally).


But lately it seems like the show can't do anything write. No matter what is put on the screen, someone complains. Noah's being too mean, Luke's being too wishywashy, Noah's being too boring, Luke's not showing his dark side enough, Luke's showing too much dark side, the writing sucks, the other couples get more airtime, they aren't kissing enough, they aren't Kish enough, there should be a triangle, there shouldn't be a triangle, there should be more angst, they should have more happy scenes. I could go on and on.

My question is, are we scaring away our own fellow fans with the constant complaining? I know that originally I came to this fandom because I was so excited about the boys' chemistry and I was thrilled to find like minded people who wanted to talk about the storylines and the characters. I mean let's face it, as great as my family is, my teenager really could care less about whether Noah will balk about being taken care of because of his father issues. (He's more interested in Ewa da Cruz and whether or not she's wearing a bra that day)

But sadly, I find less and less discussing of storylines and more and more snarking about the problems. Or the potential problems - people were up in arms about this new doctor coming to town because of one rumor by one less than reliable source. There was a time when these boards were filled with people visiting and commenting. Now the groups have become smaller and smaller. Some have moved on to new fandoms or simply lost interest. That happens. But others I think were scared away. I know I stopped visiting boards and posting because no one wanted to simply discuss stories so much as complain about them.

Now am I suggesting there aren't problems or that we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. Yes and no. I mean, we know the show isn't perfect, but since we aren't writing it, there isn't a whole helluva a lot we can do about what's playing out on screen. And while we may not like spoilers, we have no control over them.

We can however, control how enjoyable our next eight months are. There have been studies that show negativity is contagious. Once one person starts complaining, then it becomes fashionable to keep complaining. Before you know it, negativity has taken over the atmosphere. Those who don't conform either leave, get depressed or find other atmospheres.

Sorry for the long rant, but it bums me out that something I once enjoyed talking about has sort of fallen by the wayside. On one hand I can't complain too much (hee - I just realized I wrote four or five paragraphs complaining about how we shouldn't be complaining) because I have more time to do other things now. But on the other, I'd love to find a way to bring back the energy and excitment we all had even just a year ago. Any suggestions?

PS: I also apologize if my post offended or annoyed...
Edited by pj3, Jan 8 2010, 02:42 PM.
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bbwqueen1004
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Ack! I have to run and get ready for work so I can't really comment like I want to. But let me just say that I enjoyed reading this and I fully agree with your statement about fans killing to show themselves. I've ALWAYS believed that (ever since things started to go what fan considered was "downhill" many months ago). SO YES.

Will come back later when things like RL aren't trying to get in the way. :P Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts!
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bluejeanbaby
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pj3
Jan 8 2010, 01:30 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while, ever since Dazzling Icer posted about being not wanting his/her (sorry can't remember your sex) friend to join the fandom.

I just can't help but wonder if we, the fans, have ruined our own good thing. Not anyone in particular, but the tendency in this fandom to focus on the negative so much.

Now I understand that for many fans how Luke and Noah are portrayed is politically and socially important. After all, homosexuality is still unaccepted and misunderstood by so many people. It's extremely important that stereotypes be avoided and that there be equality regarding how same sex couples are treated versus heterosexual couples. And I will admit that, not being gay, I probably don't fully understand or have the level of anger that they have regarding Luke's and Noah's portrayal. Were I a lesbian, I might very well be as offended by things like mistletoegate or apartmentgate as other fans have were.

I also get that the writing is lousy. Lazy and lousy. (Sadly, this is the one area where Luke and Noah and all the other couples ARE treated equally).


But lately it seems like the show can't do anything write. No matter what is put on the screen, someone complains. Noah's being too mean, Luke's being too wishywashy, Noah's being too boring, Luke's not showing his dark side enough, Luke's showing too much dark side, the writing sucks, the other couples get more airtime, they aren't kissing enough, they aren't Kish enough, there should be a triangle, there shouldn't be a triangle, there should be more angst, they should have more happy scenes. I could go on and on.

My question is, are we scaring away our own fellow fans with the constant complaining? I know that originally I came to this fandom because I was so excited about the boys' chemistry and I was thrilled to find like minded people who wanted to talk about the storylines and the characters. I mean let's face it, as great as my family is, my teenager really could care less about whether Noah will balk about being taken care of because of his father issues. (He's more interested in Ewa da Cruz and whether or not she's wearing a bra that day)

But sadly, I find less and less discussing of storylines and more and more snarking about the problems. Or the potential problems - people were up in arms about this new doctor coming to town because of one rumor by one less than reliable source. There was a time when these boards were filled with people visiting and commenting. Now the groups have become smaller and smaller. Some have moved on to new fandoms or simply lost interest. That happens. But others I think were scared away. I know I stopped visiting boards and posting because no one wanted to simply discuss stories so much as complain about them.

Now am I suggesting there aren't problems or that we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. Yes and no. I mean, we know the show isn't perfect, but since we aren't writing it, there isn't a whole helluva a lot we can do about what's playing out on screen. And while we may not like spoilers, we have no control over them.

We can however, control how enjoyable our next eight months are. There have been studies that show negativity is contagious. Once one person starts complaining, then it becomes fashionable to keep complaining. Before you know it, negativity has taken over the atmosphere. Those who don't conform either leave, get depressed or find other atmospheres.

Sorry for the long rant, but it bums me out that something I once enjoyed talking about has sort of fallen by the wayside. On one hand I can't complain too much (hee - I just realized I wrote four or five paragraphs complaining about how we shouldn't be complaining) because I have more time to do other things now. But on the other, I'd love to find a way to bring back the energy and excitment we all had even just a year ago. Any suggestions?

PS: I also apologize if my post offended or annoyed...
:bpe

Barb, I couldn't agree more.

I think this fandom is famous for shooting itself in the foot. That's not to say that when it bands together for GOOD it isn't great and doesn't accomplish what it sets out to do (the kissing ban comes to mind). But when the fandom divides itself over stupid things, like the things you mentioned, it's amazing we're left with anything to stand on at all.

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cord08
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pj3
Jan 8 2010, 01:30 PM
I've been thinking about this for a while, ever since Dazzling Icer posted about being not wanting his/her (sorry can't remember your sex) friend to join the fandom.

I just can't help but wonder if we, the fans, have ruined our own good thing. Not anyone in particular, but the tendency in this fandom to focus on the negative so much.

Now I understand that for many fans how Luke and Noah are portrayed is politically and socially important. After all, homosexuality is still unaccepted and misunderstood by so many people. It's extremely important that stereotypes be avoided and that there be equality regarding how same sex couples are treated versus heterosexual couples. And I will admit that, not being gay, I probably don't fully understand or have the level of anger that they have regarding Luke's and Noah's portrayal. Were I a lesbian, I might very well be as offended by things like mistletoegate or apartmentgate as other fans have were.

I also get that the writing is lousy. Lazy and lousy. (Sadly, this is the one area where Luke and Noah and all the other couples ARE treated equally).


But lately it seems like the show can't do anything write. No matter what is put on the screen, someone complains. Noah's being too mean, Luke's being too wishywashy, Noah's being too boring, Luke's not showing his dark side enough, Luke's showing too much dark side, the writing sucks, the other couples get more airtime, they aren't kissing enough, they aren't Kish enough, there should be a triangle, there shouldn't be a triangle, there should be more angst, they should have more happy scenes. I could go on and on.

My question is, are we scaring away our own fellow fans with the constant complaining? I know that originally I came to this fandom because I was so excited about the boys' chemistry and I was thrilled to find like minded people who wanted to talk about the storylines and the characters. I mean let's face it, as great as my family is, my teenager really could care less about whether Noah will balk about being taken care of because of his father issues. (He's more interested in Ewa da Cruz and whether or not she's wearing a bra that day)

But sadly, I find less and less discussing of storylines and more and more snarking about the problems. Or the potential problems - people were up in arms about this new doctor coming to town because of one rumor by one less than reliable source. There was a time when these boards were filled with people visiting and commenting. Now the groups have become smaller and smaller. Some have moved on to new fandoms or simply lost interest. That happens. But others I think were scared away. I know I stopped visiting boards and posting because no one wanted to simply discuss stories so much as complain about them.

Now am I suggesting there aren't problems or that we should stick our heads in the sand and pretend they don't exist. Yes and no. I mean, we know the show isn't perfect, but since we aren't writing it, there isn't a whole helluva a lot we can do about what's playing out on screen. And while we may not like spoilers, we have no control over them.

We can however, control how enjoyable our next eight months are. There have been studies that show negativity is contagious. Once one person starts complaining, then it becomes fashionable to keep complaining. Before you know it, negativity has taken over the atmosphere. Those who don't conform either leave, get depressed or find other atmospheres.

Sorry for the long rant, but it bums me out that something I once enjoyed talking about has sort of fallen by the wayside. On one hand I can't complain too much (hee - I just realized I wrote four or five paragraphs complaining about how we shouldn't be complaining) because I have more time to do other things now. But on the other, I'd love to find a way to bring back the energy and excitment we all had even just a year ago. Any suggestions?

PS: I also apologize if my post offended or annoyed...
Just to preface, my comments about the overall atmosphere of the fandom are not directed at any one particular person.

Thank you so much for this post! I have had many of the same thoughts floating around in my mind for a while now. For me, the perpetual negativity has definitely effected my enjoyment of Luke and Noah. The overall atmosphere of nitpicking and complaining was literally giving me a headache! I thus decided earlier this week to really limit what I read on message boards.

However, I do not believe that this less than positive space on many message boards is exclusive to the Luke and Noah community. I have been regularly checking various soap blog sites for a little over a year and I have noticed that *some*, (definitely not all), of these sites seem to have become more biased and harsh towards certain shows, actors, writers, etc. over about the last six months. This shift on *some* popular sites has, in my mind, really infiltrated other message boards which used to be more neutral. This phenomenon, to me, is somewhat tragic. I know that all of these blogs love soap operas and do not want to see the genre die, but it just feels as though in the absence of more objectivity, *some* sites may be turning certain fans away from soaps. Such an pattern seems to indicate that, although freedom of speech is absolutely wonderful, if we are not careful, it can be detrimental to our goals.

Sorry if that went a little off topic, and like the original poster stated, this response is not intended to offend anyone. These are just my personal observations and conclusions.

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twins1729
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When I created the Wiki, it was because I created a lot. LOL I liked the style and was big on the CSI Wiki. We created some Wikis here and there, but the Luke and Noah one just took off.

At times, I wonder what it would have been like NOT to create it? If you search Luke and Noah in google, the Wikis the first thing that pops up. A lot of people join saying they found Nuke on YouTube and found the Wiki via google.

Some people don't like the style because it's confusing, so they head to VH or the LJ. Cause some fans specifically like LJs and when they find Nukes, it's just natural to head there. And some people think both the Wiki and LJ are confusing, so they'd rather post in a forum. And some people stick to YouTube and remain fairly ignorant.

I DO think that it can be a good thing. To not join the fandom and just post randomly on YouTube or other Soap/ATWT/Telenext forums. As long as fans that shouldn't be getting attention for their opinions make their opinions known, and these fans fall for it.

I DO think it's important to be in certain fandoms. I wouldn't have even BEEN in Nick and Greg's fandom if I hadn't found it first. Brian and Justin was my first real fandom and I did nothing but enjoy it.

But this fandom is SOOO much fun. But when certain people take over, it makes me sad. I don't think certain boards (including my own) are as great as they used to be, but I think that's a good thing. I wish there was ONE forum/website that all Nuke fans belonged to, but only if people were on the same page. But since I know that'll NEVER happen, I stick to my sites I enjoy. Being here and the Wiki, mostly. I love my YouTube channel. Like SO much. feel so guilty that I haven't finished my special video for my 1000 subscribers.

In general, I love the fandom. It's so special. But some people leave too soon and stay too long. And some people are too arrogent, and some people are too submissive. But I love it, I really, really do.
Edited by twins1729, Jan 8 2010, 05:30 PM.
"That is what the cool people will call it now. Because we take two words and we make them one. Which is so hip you know." - King Julian
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pj3
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I have to agree with Cord - it's not limited to one fandom - it's prevalent in every fandom. I think a lot has to do with the internet. Not only are we free to share our love of something (like the boys Hee!) But we can complain too. And please don't get me wrong -= I love the boys and a lot of people I've met. I'm just interested in how we can recultivate the excitment we all had a year ago - if that makes sense.

And yeah, I was also whining and complaining which makes me part of the problem too. :-)

Okay, I'm editing to add that I found my solution - having read the post on VH.net -- I have to hang out with people like Dazzling Icer's friend. That's the way to enjoy a show. I flove the comments.
Edited by pj3, Jan 8 2010, 08:17 PM.
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pj3
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In fact, the more I think about it, the more I've decided that complaining about the complaining is just as bad. So I'll stop. I'll just focus on loving the boys.
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DancingElf88
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I feel you. I started watching a year ago on YT and loved like EVERYTHING and then I joined fandom and was surprised by a lot of the negativity. I just don't go into certain threads anymore because they raise my blood pressure. I stick to here and my fanfic. But I so agree with you sometimes fandom kills the show with the nitpicking.
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Lis
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I remember joining vh.net and reading all the Noah hate from the START, since I was there right in the middle of the A_____ craziness. I was so into defending Noah at the time, I didn't think it was that bad but as time went by and my Nuke love got less...crazy you could say, the negativity surrounding the entire forum (vh.net) annoyed me. Now, I didn't join the Wiki mostly due to it's confusing layout and I'm not a big LJ person, but I do check the Comm. daily, but since vh.net was my first website, it was the one that stayed with me. I will say as of late, I've tried to stay away from posting in those depressing threads because it's simply not worth it to argue. I love to come to this board, only because this place seems to be the least argumentive site.

I love Nuke and I want to enjoy the rest of the time we have with them. :wub
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carrot_cake
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Back in the day when I was sucked into the awesomeness of Nuke while seeing their first kiss on youtube all I did was find out at vhnet when my boys would be on next, never read people's comments, watch, and I really enjoyed it. Then I started reading everyone's comments and it didn't make me all :pullhair or anything, it all turned bad when the Lion love was spreading :throwingup Ever since that happened I have become such a negative nilly because I have this big fear that this type of thing will happen again and I hate it :nail

I really want to enjoy whats left so in order to do that I think I will only read fanfic, spoilers, (while ignoring the comments) and the gush threads.
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twins1729
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Lis
Jan 9 2010, 01:30 AM
I remember joining vh.net and reading all the Noah hate from the START, since I was there right in the middle of the A_____ craziness. I was so into defending Noah at the time, I didn't think it was that bad but as time went by and my Nuke love got less...crazy you could say, the negativity surrounding the entire forum (vh.net) annoyed me. Now, I didn't join the Wiki mostly due to it's confusing layout and I'm not a big LJ person, but I do check the Comm. daily, but since vh.net was my first website, it was the one that stayed with me. I will say as of late, I've tried to stay away from posting in those depressing threads because it's simply not worth it to argue. I love to come to this board, only because this place seems to be the least argumentive site.

I love Nuke and I want to enjoy the rest of the time we have with them. :wub
Just say it. AMEERA! :D
"That is what the cool people will call it now. Because we take two words and we make them one. Which is so hip you know." - King Julian
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Lis
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twins1729
Jan 9 2010, 03:15 AM
Lis
Jan 9 2010, 01:30 AM
I remember joining vh.net and reading all the Noah hate from the START, since I was there right in the middle of the A_____ craziness. I was so into defending Noah at the time, I didn't think it was that bad but as time went by and my Nuke love got less...crazy you could say, the negativity surrounding the entire forum (vh.net) annoyed me. Now, I didn't join the Wiki mostly due to it's confusing layout and I'm not a big LJ person, but I do check the Comm. daily, but since vh.net was my first website, it was the one that stayed with me. I will say as of late, I've tried to stay away from posting in those depressing threads because it's simply not worth it to argue. I love to come to this board, only because this place seems to be the least argumentive site.

I love Nuke and I want to enjoy the rest of the time we have with them. :wub
Just say it. AMEERA! :D
AMEERA! Hehe, I can say it but I thought it would be amusing to see if anyone would do what a lot of fans used to do back in '08 LOL.
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* Credit to Moey & Ronnie!
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bluejeanbaby
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Lis
Jan 9 2010, 03:35 AM
twins1729
Jan 9 2010, 03:15 AM
Lis
Jan 9 2010, 01:30 AM
I remember joining vh.net and reading all the Noah hate from the START, since I was there right in the middle of the A_____ craziness. I was so into defending Noah at the time, I didn't think it was that bad but as time went by and my Nuke love got less...crazy you could say, the negativity surrounding the entire forum (vh.net) annoyed me. Now, I didn't join the Wiki mostly due to it's confusing layout and I'm not a big LJ person, but I do check the Comm. daily, but since vh.net was my first website, it was the one that stayed with me. I will say as of late, I've tried to stay away from posting in those depressing threads because it's simply not worth it to argue. I love to come to this board, only because this place seems to be the least argumentive site.

I love Nuke and I want to enjoy the rest of the time we have with them. :wub
Just say it. AMEERA! :D
AMEERA! Hehe, I can say it but I thought it would be amusing to see if anyone would do what a lot of fans used to do back in '08 LOL.
Yeah, it's not a dirty word around here.

Ameera, Ameera, Ameera!

Most of us, as far as I know, didn't mind the storyline and we love Tala. So...

Ameera, Ameera, Ameera!!

:D :D
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