Welcome Guest [Log In] [Register]
Welcome to TMP! We hope you enjoy your visit.


You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Click the link below to register and remember to bookmark us too.

Join our community!

If you're already a member please log in to your account to access all of our features:

Username:   Password:
Add Reply
Bioshock 2's DLC is ON THE DISC. :(
Topic Started: Mar 13 2010, 09:28 AM (518 Views)
Fs_Metal
Member Avatar

This will be talked about in this weeks podcast. This kind of thing is happening more and more often. It pisses me off
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nate
Member Avatar

thinkfreemind
Mar 14 2010, 12:44 AM
nate
Mar 14 2010, 12:38 AM
Yeah, the book thing doesn't work so well. More along the lines of having to buy the deleted scenes from a movie that're on the DVD to view them. ;)
Ok. Imagine that these words (using the missing content example from above) were so small on the page that they couldn't be read, but the publisher offered to sell you a magnifying glass capable to revealing this content for your enjoyment. Or, perhaps they decided to use some sort of special invisible ink that requires a special marker to reveal, etc... Either way, it's all totally wrong, and it is no way to treat your customers with respect in hopes of their continued support.
The point is, chapters of a book are part of the whole. That'd be like if Square sold me Ch 5 of FFXIII. That's not the case. What we're talking about is supplementary material, deleted scenes from a DVD. "Here's something else for fun."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ragnarok
Member Avatar
Everything, everything, EVERYTHING!
thinkfreemind
Mar 14 2010, 12:44 AM
nate
Mar 14 2010, 12:38 AM
Yeah, the book thing doesn't work so well. More along the lines of having to buy the deleted scenes from a movie that're on the DVD to view them. ;)
Ok. Imagine that these words (using the missing content example from above) were so small on the page that they couldn't be read, but the publisher offered to sell you a magnifying glass capable to revealing this content for your enjoyment. Or, perhaps they decided to use some sort of special invisible ink that requires a special marker to reveal, etc... Either way, it's all totally wrong, and it is no way to treat your customers with respect in hopes of their continued support.
Again, the game is finished and playable! Yet another over the top comparison.

Imagine if you didn't have the internet to tell you about the DLC and you didn't even know it existed, would you care? NO! Because the game is finished.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ragnarok
Member Avatar
Everything, everything, EVERYTHING!
nate
Mar 14 2010, 12:48 AM
thinkfreemind
Mar 14 2010, 12:44 AM
nate
Mar 14 2010, 12:38 AM
Yeah, the book thing doesn't work so well. More along the lines of having to buy the deleted scenes from a movie that're on the DVD to view them. ;)
Ok. Imagine that these words (using the missing content example from above) were so small on the page that they couldn't be read, but the publisher offered to sell you a magnifying glass capable to revealing this content for your enjoyment. Or, perhaps they decided to use some sort of special invisible ink that requires a special marker to reveal, etc... Either way, it's all totally wrong, and it is no way to treat your customers with respect in hopes of their continued support.
The point is, chapters of a book are part of the whole. That'd be like if Square sold me Ch 5 of FFXIII. That's not the case. What we're talking about is supplementary material, deleted scenes from a DVD. "Here's something else for fun."
Exactly. :thumb:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thinkfreemind
Member Avatar

Ragnarok
Mar 14 2010, 12:40 AM
What's the difference? They put this stuff on the disc specifically for paid DLC. Which means they did the same amount of work on that piece of DLC that they would have done if it had been released later. This way, it cuts down on the download size.

Let's take oh I don't know, Point Lookout in Fallout 3 for example. Let's say they knew they were going to make it a paid add on even before they made it. Now at this point, imagine if the game wasn't out. Would it not be a smarter idea to create that DLC while they were still working on the actual game and stick it on to the disc? This way, they can release it quicker, still get paid for it, and greatly reduce the download size of the file all the while being able to work on an entirely new project without having to keep a team on Fallout 3. It's still the same DLC they would have released later, but with more perks for them.
The difference is that what you've just described is immoral. To purposely leave content out of a game because you intend to charge people more for it later is just not right. What kind of fucked up moral compass does someone need to have to think that is ok? Does the idea that the gamers will probably never find out make this practice any more right? Once again, this is no way to show respect for your customers, even if those customers show that they have no self respect by allowing themselves to be treated this way and supporting this practice anyways.
Edited by thinkfreemind, Mar 14 2010, 12:58 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nate
Member Avatar

So I suppose filmmakers should leave nothing on the cutting floor when creating a movie? That's not moral, that's insane. Musicians should put every single song they record during the session on the CD? Most artists record 40+ songs before cutting it down to ~12. You're asking for quantity over quality here. All they're doing is seperating and then saying, "Hey, if anyone's interested, here are some other ideas we had."
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ragnarok
Member Avatar
Everything, everything, EVERYTHING!
thinkfreemind
Mar 14 2010, 12:53 AM
Ragnarok
Mar 14 2010, 12:40 AM
What's the difference? They put this stuff on the disc specifically for paid DLC. Which means they did the same amount of work on that piece of DLC that they would have done if it had been released later. This way, it cuts down on the download size.

Let's take oh I don't know, Point Lookout in Fallout 3 for example. Let's say they knew they were going to make it a paid add on even before they made it. Now at this point, imagine if the game wasn't out. Would it not be a smarter idea to create that DLC while they were still working on the actual game and stick it on to the disc? This way, they can release it quicker, still get paid for it, and greatly reduce the download size of the file all the while being able to work on an entirely new project without having to keep a team on Fallout 3. It's still the same DLC they would have released later, but with more perks for them.
The difference is that what you've just described is immoral. To purposely leave content out of a game because you intent to charge people more for it later is just not right. What kind of fucked up moral compass does someone need to have to think that is ok? Does the idea that the gamers will probably never find out make this practice any more right? Once again, this is no way to show respect for your customers, even if those customers show that they have no self respect by allowing themselves to be treated this way and supporting this practice anyways.
You think they give a hoo haw about you? :lol: The creation of video games is a business and just like any other business, it is their job to make lots of money. They don't force their game down your throat and say BUY IT! They don't force the extra content down your throat and say BUY IT! You don't have to do anything you don't want to do. They believe it to be a good business move on their part and it is. Who wouldn't want to make more money with less effort? When do morals ever really affect a business descision? Video games aren't some kind of service, they are a product and unless that product doesn't work, the only customer service you get is done by the store clerk you bought the game from.
Edited by Ragnarok, Mar 14 2010, 01:03 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thinkfreemind
Member Avatar

nate
Mar 14 2010, 01:00 AM
So I suppose filmmakers should leave nothing on the cutting floor when creating a movie? That's not moral, that's insane. Musicians should put every single song they record during the session on the CD? Most artists record 40+ songs before cutting it down to ~12. You're asking for quantity over quality here. All they're doing is seperating and then saying, "Hey, if anyone's interested, here are some other ideas we had."
There is a difference in content not being up to par and being left on the cutting room floor, and that content being purposely cut with the sole intention of selling it later. I'd go so far as to say that any content which was left out of a game due to quality issues (or whatever) should be given away to customers later (if they want it), rather than sold. This sort of thing goes a long way to building a positive relationship with the customer, while also helping to achieve one of their goals, which is providing some incentive for gamers to hold on to their games longer, thus not selling them to GS which only leads to future sales losses.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nate
Member Avatar

You think that the 12 picked are the 12 best? Not even close. The 12 picked are the 12 that give a cohesive whole. Meaning of the 28 remainders, there are definitely better songs than some that were picked.

And your point about giving it away is just silly. Giving away the whole game would build an even more positive relationship. You act like they charge you $50 or whatever for this stuff. They've got some stuff leftover to offer to people who are curious and they make a couple bucks off it. Everyone wins except upset video gamers who need some constant bogeyman to get upset about.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thinkfreemind
Member Avatar

Ragnarok
Mar 14 2010, 01:01 AM
Who wouldn't want to make more money with less effort? When do morals ever really affect a business decision?
I'm going to send you a PM with my response to this comment, because I don't want everyone else to read what I'm about to say to you. :angry:
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
squid5580
Member Avatar

Fine lets take movies for a second. You buy your 20 dollar disc watch the movie and go to the extras because you heard about this amazing alternative scene. You click on the extras and instead of a bunck of scenes showing up there is a message. If you want to enjoy these extra's please log onto UBEENSCAMMED.com and give us 5 more dollars. Where we will send you a code to input in a menu screen on your disc to unlock these for you.

And I would like to point out that if something has been left on the editing room floor it ain't on the disc. Someone picking it off the floor tweaking it for whatever reason (since there has to be a reason it was going to be left on the floor in the first place) and then releasing it is a whole other story.
Edited by squid5580, Mar 14 2010, 01:23 AM.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
Ragnarok
Member Avatar
Everything, everything, EVERYTHING!
squid5580
Mar 14 2010, 01:21 AM
Fine lets take movies for a second. You buy your 20 dollar disc watch the movie and go to the extras because you heard about this amazing alternative scene. You click on the extras and instead of a bunck of scenes showing up there is a message. If you want to enjoy these extra's please log onto UBEENSCAMMED.com and give us 5 more dollars. Where we will send you a code to input in a menu screen on your disc to unlock these for you.

And I would like to point out that if something has been left on the editing room floor it ain't on the disc. Someone picking it off the floor tweaking it for whatever reason (since there has to be a reason it was going to be left on the floor in the first place) and then releasing it is a whole other story.
You ever heard of standard and two disc edition movies? The 2 disc edition having the extras and you having to pay 5-10 bucks more for them. They could fit those extras on to one disc, but why would they?
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
nate
Member Avatar

This conversation is just corny to me at this point. You guys don't care about discussing the issue, you just want to vent. Since that's the case, nothing I say really matters because you're not really interested in that. So we may as well lock the thread and move on with our lives.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
squid5580
Member Avatar

Ragnarok
Mar 14 2010, 01:25 AM
squid5580
Mar 14 2010, 01:21 AM
Fine lets take movies for a second. You buy your 20 dollar disc watch the movie and go to the extras because you heard about this amazing alternative scene. You click on the extras and instead of a bunck of scenes showing up there is a message. If you want to enjoy these extra's please log onto UBEENSCAMMED.com and give us 5 more dollars. Where we will send you a code to input in a menu screen on your disc to unlock these for you.

And I would like to point out that if something has been left on the editing room floor it ain't on the disc. Someone picking it off the floor tweaking it for whatever reason (since there has to be a reason it was going to be left on the floor in the first place) and then releasing it is a whole other story.
You ever heard of standard and two disc edition movies? The 2 disc edition having the extras and you having to pay 5-10 bucks more for them. They could fit those extras on to one disc, but why would they?
Ahh but you are paying more for it. Even if all the extra content wouldn't fill the 2nd disc. Before you walk up to the cashier you know what you are buying. You are getting ALL the content available on both discs. You aren't going to go home hook up your dvd player and download a patch you paid 5 bucks for to unlock more stuff on the discs that you paid for.

If they can give me a good reason. A valid reason other than sheer greed to lock 3 masks, 20 challenges and 2 skins (and considering how limited the starting selection already is for skins and masks) and then charge people for it I would be glad to listen. As far as I can tell they are using this as a cheap bridge to fill the gap between launch and when they can get some substantial DLC pack out. And that is just stupid. The industry is all about image. There is no reason they couldn't have unlocked it for free, told everyone they were givin it away, and been heroes. Then drop an 800msp map pack on us in a month and call it a day. Learn from EA. They are going in the right direction.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
thinkfreemind
Member Avatar

Why must you go acting so put upon Nate? I've been reading everything you've said and I fully understand what you are saying. It would seem that we have differences of opinion in what is the most fair way to deal with this "extra" content. To use your example of a musician writing songs that never make the album, I don't see a problem with that, but I don't think it is a fair comparison to this issue either. I mean, those cut songs aren't being put on the finished disk to be unlocked later for more money, which is exactly what it happening here.

Just to be clear, I don't think there is anything wrong with a musician continuing to work on weak songs for use on a future record. In the same way, I don't think there is anything wrong with a game developer continuing to work on something that wasn't good enough for inclusion in the game, and then selling it later either. My problem is with what seems to be the deliberate holding of content (proven by the locking of that completed content on the disk) for sale later, as I think this is just despicable.
Offline Profile Quote Post Goto Top
 
1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous)
DealsFor.me - The best sales, coupons, and discounts for you
Go to Next Page
« Previous Topic · Video Games · Next Topic »
Add Reply

Free SubDomain Names
Skinned by Shav of the Invisionfree Skin Zone