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TES V: Skyrim Announced!
Topic Started: Dec 11 2010, 08:28:19 PM (1,635 Views)
Dr. Åssom
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Or, maybe they will keep the Akaviri, and just, you know, explain them to the player in painfully obvious exposition so that the idiots in the audience can understand what's going on. Or maybe they'll cut the exposition out and just leave a few books lying around, maybe force the player to collect a few of them like in Morrowind.
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redsrock
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If it's just plain generic dragons for the sake of having dragons I'm going to be super pissed. Todd did go on record once saying he wanted Oblivion to have a "Lord of the Rings" feel to it, so I wouldn't be surprised.
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Vanir
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I don't think they'll do that, considering that dragons already exist in lore. What purpose could that possibly serve?

Anyone else think that Todd Howard needs to be replaced?
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redsrock
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Yeah, Todd Howard needs to be replaced..... NOT! Bethesda is an uber-popular company and a large chunk of the credit goes to Mr. Howard. Say what you want about him (the games have gone down in quality since Morrowind in my opinion, though it's just one game...), he's done a swell job at making Elder Scrolls popular with the mainstream audience. I don't know what any of that means, really, but I guess it should count for something.
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redsrock
Dec 26 2010, 10:32:28 PM
Yeah, Todd Howard needs to be replaced..... NOT! Bethesda is an uber-popular company and a large chunk of the credit goes to Mr. Howard. Say what you want about him (the games have gone down in quality since Morrowind in my opinion, though it's just one game...), he's done a swell job at making Elder Scrolls popular with the mainstream audience. I don't know what any of that means, really, but I guess it should count for something.
...Which he did by dumbing it down and making it more accessible. I'd rather have a more unique world that not many people experience than a generic fantasy world that many people do.
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Dr. Åssom
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Did you ever think that maybe it wouldn't stay dumbed down? I liken it to the comic book industry. Every since they first introduced the superheroes back in the Golden Age, they'd had continuous stories. So, then, in the 90s, there was like thirty years of lore behind all the heroes. That kind of made it hard to bring new fans in, especially since the vast majority of the Golden Age and even Silver Age comics were hard to find and very expensive. Thus, it was nearly impossible to bring new people in. So, they restarted. They remade the heroes with new, updated backstories, ignoring all previous canon so that they could bring in the younger crowd. Of course, after time, they eventually became just as complicated and convoluted as ever.

Now, obviously, this isn't quite as extreme, but I think it's the same premise. They dumb down Oblivion, make it more accessible to the mainstream audience, and then continue building up the lore like before. That's why I think they're going with this game. On the surface, it's simple and easy to understand. Everyone knows dragons. Then, they go and introduce the rest of Akavir. Sure, it's probably not going to be entirely following with the lore, but it's probably going to be at least mostly accurate. Or, maybe they'll just make the story, itself, simplistic and have the rest of the information on the side as books or side quests, etc. It's essentially a bait and switch. They get the mainstream interested with the simplicity of Oblivion, and then switch things out for the more complicated Skyrim.

Then again, maybe I'm just talking out of my ass, and Todd has completely betrayed the fan base. I guess we won't know until the game comes out.

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I'd rather have a more unique world that not many people experience than a generic fantasy world that many people do.
Like it or not, people = money, and a company needs money. If TES had remained underground, it's highly possible that no one would know the name "Bethesda" right now, or just know them as "the people that made Fallout 3, along with some other games or something." If Bethesda isn't getting any return on their investment, they won't be able to keep making games.
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redsrock
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Ninja is 101% right. Without mainstream success a company can't (usually) grow. It's simple economics.
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Vanir
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Dun mean I have to like it.
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redsrock
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No one said you did.
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VickyD
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Walrus
Dec 26 2010, 04:24:52 PM
It would be fantastic if it could be the Akaviri as the antagonists. But, seeing the route Bethesda is going, I think it would be a bit too complex and obscure for most of their audience. I mean, a lot of people who never read the books in the previous games wouldn't have any idea about he Akaviri, and it would seem to them like they came completely out of nowhere.

It's more likely just plain dragons. Or as me and my friend who were discussing this a few days ago decided to call them, lolzdragonz. The lolzdragonz, of course, will have a faulty footing in lore. I get the feeling the lolzdragonz will mostly exist to capitalize on the success of Dragon Age Origins. Lolzdragonz are well known and iconic enemies, while the akaviri are fantastical and obscure. We all know which would sell better.
They did have a side quest in Oblivion that had something to do with the Akaviri War. It's been so long, so I can't remember exactly how much info you got out of it, and there are a couple of Akaviri swords lying around that you can pick up. The point is that it was at least mentioned, so the door is there. Will they take it? I don't know.

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Dr. Åssom
Jan 3 2011, 07:41:16 PM
Are you implying that I lied about staying at home and doing nothing on New Year's? Do you think that I'm secretly a massive party animal and just trying to hide my awesome life from you all to avoid you becoming jealous?
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redsrock
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The one thing that bugs me is that the skeletons in the old Akavir fort were human, and the ghost officer was human as well. I'm not saying there were never men living on Akavir (because there were), but with that quest in Oblivion they could definitely take a human Akaviri route with Skyrim. I don't know, I'd like it to be the Tsaesci because that would be totally cool, but... again, vampiric snakemen. They can be snake-like and human at the same time. I'm really interested to see what they do.

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Vanir
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I'm pretty sure all of the remaining humans in Akavir were eaten long ago by the vampiric snakemen. They were never really Akaviri, except that they came from Akavir, if that makes any sense.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure it's only the dragons that are returning, otherwise this "Dragon-Born" wouldn't be so important. Sure, the dragons may fear him, but fuck if the Tsaesci would hesitate to rip his head off. Not to mention a full invasion from either the Tsaesci or Ka Po'Tun would be too much for the Empire to deal with in its current state (I haven't read the book yet, but from what I understand, some provinces have broken off and the new Emperor isn't doing a great job), unless they were facing a bunch of Ordinators and insulted Vivec, though most of them have probably already killed themselves because of Vivec's disappearance.

Speaking of which, I want more info on the Neravarine and Vivec. Personally, I think Azura took them away, for whatever reason.
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Walrus
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Dec 27 2010, 12:24:49 PM
I'm pretty sure all of the remaining humans in Akavir were eaten long ago by the vampiric snakemen. They were never really Akaviri, except that they came from Akavir, if that makes any sense.

At any rate, I'm pretty sure it's only the dragons that are returning, otherwise this "Dragon-Born" wouldn't be so important. Sure, the dragons may fear him, but fuck if the Tsaesci would hesitate to rip his head off. Not to mention a full invasion from either the Tsaesci or Ka Po'Tun would be too much for the Empire to deal with in its current state (I haven't read the book yet, but from what I understand, some provinces have broken off and the new Emperor isn't doing a great job), unless they were facing a bunch of Ordinators and insulted Vivec, though most of them have probably already killed themselves because of Vivec's disappearance.

Speaking of which, I want more info on the Neravarine and Vivec. Personally, I think Azura took them away, for whatever reason.
After what Vivec did to Azura with his muatra they last time they met, I doubt she'll be in a hurry to come into contact with him ever again. Especially since he's basicly closed off her domain.
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Vanir
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Well, he did help the Neravarine. That might count for something.
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Walrus
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Dec 27 2010, 01:49:26 PM
Well, he did help the Neravarine. That might count for something.
Vehk is the godhead. We can't hold him accountable for anything, as mere mortals.
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Dr. Åssom
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redsrock
Dec 27 2010, 12:07:27 PM
The one thing that bugs me is that the skeletons in the old Akavir fort were human, and the ghost officer was human as well. I'm not saying there were never men living on Akavir (because there were), but with that quest in Oblivion they could definitely take a human Akaviri route with Skyrim. I don't know, I'd like it to be the Tsaesci because that would be totally cool, but... again, vampiric snakemen. They can be snake-like and human at the same time. I'm really interested to see what they do.

I think that was more genuine laziness. They didn't want to spend countless hours designing Tsaesci models and animations for just one minor sidequest.

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Speaking of which, I want more info on the Neravarine and Vivec. Personally, I think Azura took them away, for whatever reason.
Oblivion says the Nerevarine went to Akavir. I think it's pretty clear what happened after that: death. I also thought that Vivec had died, too.
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Dr. Åssom
Dec 27 2010, 04:40:35 PM
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Speaking of which, I want more info on the Neravarine and Vivec. Personally, I think Azura took them away, for whatever reason.
Oblivion says the Nerevarine went to Akavir. I think it's pretty clear what happened after that: death. I also thought that Vivec had died, too.
I know, but I prefer to believe that someone who is virtually immortal wouldn't die in Akavir. He is the Neravarine, after all. He's an able warrior and no doubt brought people along with him as backup. If he is alive, he probably should have returned by the time Oblivion rolled around, assuming he hadn't left only recently at that time.

As far as Vivec goes, it only says he disappeared. There are rumors that he has been taken by the Daedra, but his ultimate fate is, obviously, unknown.
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Dr. Åssom
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Still, he's going to a continent where almost everyone wants to kill him. Plus, Azura wouldn't bother trying to save him as her need for him is spent. She just wanted him to take out the Tribunal (and I guess Dagoth Ur), and she really had no further use for him after that.
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Walrus
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Vivec is the universe. He is omnipotent and omnipresent.

He won't be taken by anything unless he wants to be taken.
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Walrus
Dec 27 2010, 05:03:34 PM
Vivec is the universe. He is omnipotent and omnipresent.

He won't be taken by anything unless he wants to be taken.
How do you know that? I mean, I know he achieved CHIM and all that, but I didn't think it was possible to be Godhead and within that universe at the same time.

And if that's true, how did he disappear, and why would he allow the Ministry of Truth to destroy Vivec and thus Vvardenfell? Wasn't keeping the Ministry from doing so the whole point of him being in Vivec and maintaining his power?


And ninja, I don't think Azura is that much of a dick. Azura actually cares about the well-being of her followers, so I doubt she would just let one of her major servants be killed by the Akaviri.
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Walrus
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Dec 27 2010, 05:20:02 PM
Walrus
Dec 27 2010, 05:03:34 PM
Vivec is the universe. He is omnipotent and omnipresent.

He won't be taken by anything unless he wants to be taken.
How do you know that? I mean, I know he achieved CHIM and all that, but I didn't think it was possible to be Godhead and within that universe at the same time.

And if that's true, how did he disappear, and why would he allow the Ministry of Truth to destroy Vivec and thus Vvardenfell? Wasn't keeping the Ministry from doing so the whole point of him being in Vivec and maintaining his power?
1. Everyone is the godhead. Vehk knows he is the godhead, and manages to keep his individuality. That means that Tamriel is just a dream of his. He can do what he pleases with it. Here iws an example; when you are asleep and dreaming, in your dream, you dont know that you're dreaming. However, when you realise you're in a dream, you wake up. but hwne you realise you're dreaming, and don't wake up, you can change the dream however you want.

2. He disappeared for reasons not apparent, though he could be off dreaming new dreams.

Onto the Ministry of Truth; Vivec set it up so that the Ministry of Truth would fall when people stopped loving im. Vivec is an extremely selfish man-woman. I'll repeat: it wasn't Vivec's power keeping it up. It was the power of the people of Vivec's love for him. Once the people of Vivec stopped loving him, it collapsed. Vivec could have stopped it if he had wanted. But they stopped loving him, and thus had brought it on themselves.
Edited by Walrus, Dec 27 2010, 05:25:59 PM.
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Vanir
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If he is off dreaming new dreams, wouldn't his old dream cease to exist?

When did they stop loving him? He not only was he the most loved of the Tribunal, he was also the most active within the lives of the people.
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Walrus
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Dec 27 2010, 05:29:23 PM
If he is off dreaming new dreams, wouldn't his old dream cease to exist?

When did they stop loving him? He not only was he the most loved of the Tribunal, he was also the most active within the lives of the people.
The dreams would be inside the dream.

They stopped loving him after the nerevarine crisis happened and he lost his source of power from the heart. Once enough years past by, and he no longer walked amoungst his people, people stopped loving him over time. Once he disappeared during the Oblivion Crisis, when his people needed him more, there was no reason left to love him. Then it happened.

This has kind of gotten off topic : >
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Vanir
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Well, to put it simply, that was a dick move. They may have brought it on themselves, but he somewhat forced them to it.
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Dr. Åssom
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You know, every time I read about TES lore, all I can think of is just how much crack Bethesda must have been smoking when they came up with this convoluted mess.

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And ninja, I don't think Azura is that much of a dick.
I do because I read Azura and the Box.
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Walrus
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Dr. Åssom
Dec 27 2010, 05:42:25 PM
You know, every time I read about TES lore, all I can think of is just how much crack Bethesda must have been smoking when they came up with this convoluted mess.

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And ninja, I don't think Azura is that much of a dick.
I do because I read Azura and the Box.
Michael Kirkbride said on the old BGSF forums that he had taken a cocktail of drugs before he wrote the sermons and designed the character of Vivec, he had been through a bad break up, and I do believe after he wrote it, he drank a bottle of scotch and cried himself to sleep.

So, yeah, you're right.
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Dr. Åssom
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Walrus
Dec 27 2010, 05:45:24 PM
Dr. Åssom
Dec 27 2010, 05:42:25 PM
You know, every time I read about TES lore, all I can think of is just how much crack Bethesda must have been smoking when they came up with this convoluted mess.

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And ninja, I don't think Azura is that much of a dick.
I do because I read Azura and the Box.
Michael Kirkbride said on the old BGSF forums that he had taken a cocktail of drugs before he wrote the sermons and designed the character of Vivec, he had been through a bad break up, and I do believe after he wrote it, he drank a bottle of scotch and cried himself to sleep.

So, yeah, you're right.
Wow, that explains just so much. TES is a product of rampant drug use. It all makes sense now. :P
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Vanir
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Dr. Åssom
Dec 27 2010, 05:42:25 PM
You know, every time I read about TES lore, all I can think of is just how much crack Bethesda must have been smoking when they came up with this convoluted mess.

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And ninja, I don't think Azura is that much of a dick.
I do because I read Azura and the Box.
I don't suppose you've read Invocation of Azura?



Michael Kirkbride. Now there's a man who had the right idea with TES. Psychadelics and emotional pain, instead of this "LOTR Wannabe" shit.
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redsrock
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You do realize Kirkbride wrote the storyline for Knights of the Nine, right?
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Vanir
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I liked KOTN.
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