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Bleach RPG Discussion; Moving it out of the CBox
Topic Started: May 26 2010, 09:11 AM (871 Views)
Fate
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"Can you feel it coming..."
Since the subject of a possible Bleach RPG has been coming up a lot as of late, I figured I might as well bring all of the discussion on the subject out of the CBox and into an official thread.

In the CBox I saw OG mention that he didn't know if the example fight of my Reiatsu/Focus system was in the Sim thread. I'm fairly certain it wasn't, but that example does indeed explain my original concept for the system very well, so I'll repost it here. However, there seems to be some confusion as to the particulars of the system so I'll take a moment to explain the original system before moving on to letting you guys read the example and gain a better understanding of the concept:

The Reiatsu/Focus system basically begins with two caps. For simplicity's sake, let's use 1,000 as the number. As such in this example, our nameless Shinigami would have a maximum of both 1,000 Reiatsu and 1,000 Focus. Now, when a battle begins the Shinigami would start with 0 Reiatsu and with 1,000 Focus. Some have questioned this as meaning that the nameless Shinigami would therefore have no power to do anything with. This is not true. It takes no Reiatsu to swing a Zanpakutou around, however, it DOES take Reiatsu to release a Zanpakutou's and use any special abilities they might have.

In truth, under the original system all actions except special abilities or releases would earn you Reiatsu at the cost of Focus. Thus the theory was that far more actions in terms of swordplay would occur in order to build Reiatsu far more quickly, as was done in the example fight below. Things were done this way to preserve the "second wind" nature of many fights within Bleach where major characters sustain injuries that would have annihilated lesser characters outright and suddenly pull off a massive upset victory (usually fueled by big, flashy attacks that required lots of power - ala Bankai). In this way, players could also decide for themselves the speed at which they wanted fights to progress by coordination.

If people wanted to build Reiatsu quickly to get to Shikai forms faster, lots of swordsplay and other forms of movement or defense would be required. I didn't think it would be that hard to coordinate so I didn't see that as a potential problem. However, that's where problems crept up in the Sim battle - there was lots of Kido being used and lots of Flash Stepping going on to "make up" for Reiatsu lost casting Kido. And while it is true that Shinigami Flash Step a lot in any given fight, the vast majority of them do not rely on Kido so heavily unless they specialize in Kido.

Indeed, this also resulted in other problems when people finally did build up enough to release their Shikai forms - they often weren't able to build up enough Reiatsu beforehand to attack within the same turn. So pretty much we wasted all that time releasing just to arm ourselves with an oddly shaped fork (*glances Koji's way*). That was not an intended in this system. It was designed to save up Reiatsu via swordplay first, gathering sufficient Reiatsu to both release and attack at the same time before a release was ever triggered.

But, during the Sim it became obvious that most of us don't wanna wait that long. :P

Anyway, don't just take my word for it. Read the example fight for yourselves and compare it to the Sim battle to see the differences between its intended and actual use:

Quote:
 
Ichigo:

Ichigo stood before him at last, Byakuya Kuchiki. The barren plateau framed on all sides by a clear blue sky which made up Sereitei was not exactly Ichigo's preferred battleground but he'd make do with what he had. The grin on Ichigo's face was real even as he looked at the stern look of Byakuya's face. Now was the time Ichigo would prove to this arrogant bastard how strong he had become, and exactly why no one would stand in the way of him saving Rukia from a fate she didn't deserve. "You can not fathom the great divide that seperates our powers, boy." Byakuya said. Ha. As if such a thing mattered anymore. Now, Ichigo could see all of Byakuya's movements which meant the playing field was even. Zangetsu was held out in a ready position, and Ichigo knew his Zanpakutou was just as eager to begin as he was.

"Byakuya, sorry to tell you this. But it's you who is going to regret your words. Because I'm going to make you eat 'em." With that, Ichigo ran forwards towards Byakuya for a few steps before crouching and then leaping into the air. Zangetsu spun above Ichigo's head before he placed both hands on its grip and brought it down on top of his opponent's head.

(Note: Standard sword attack, +10 Reiatsu -10 Focus. Ichigo now has 10 Reiatsu and 990 Focus.)

Byakuya:

Byakuya had ample time to set up for the attack, and so lifted Senbonzakura to counter the two-handed swing. The two Zanpakuto met in the air over his head and Byakuya could only pity the arrogance of this Ryoka child's attitude. How could he not understand the difference in status between a Shinigami and a mere Ryoka? It would defy the rules of Soul Society for a Captain and the head of a great noble family to be defeated in such a manner. As if to emphasize this point Byakuya used naught but one hand to guide Senbonzakura to intercept the attack. The Ryoka's Zanpakutou may be capable of unleashing impressive Reiatsu, but that alone simply could not make up for the difference in their training.

"Very well then, boy." Was the Captain's response as Byakuya lashed out his right arm, pushing the Ryoka and his Zanpakutou alike back into the air. The Ryoka displayed capable athletic ability as he spun in the air to land on his feet and with his Zanpakutou still held ready to face a counterattack. But this was exactly what he was waiting for. By the time the Ryoka landed he had already dissapeared. Nothing but dust marked his passage as in the space of a second he Flash Stepped behind the Ryoka. Byakuya then brought Senbonzakura down on his opponent again from behind - aimed to strike Ichigo's exposed backside.

"I will show you the difference between our powers."

(Note: Block plus a counter-slash gives Byakuya +20 Reiatsu, and -20 Focus. Byakuya presently has 20 Reiatsu and 980 Focus.)

Ichigo:

"Very well then, boy." Was Byakuya's predictably dull response. The man's voice was always annoyingly calm. Then with some effort Byakuya pushed Ichigo away and he twisted in mid-air so as to land on his feet. He succeeded in this effort only to look over and see Byakuya had dissapeared. There was a flash of movement to Ichigo's left and immediately Ichigo shifted his grip on Zangetsu to his left hand as he slid his Zanpakutou back over his left shoulder. Ichigo knowing that was that annoying Flash Step.

Sure enough, that dreary voice intoned another message to irritate Ichigo. "I will show you the difference between our powers." There was then a predictable impact against Zangetsu which had just been laid out across Ichigo's back. The young Shinigami had guessed his opponent's move correctly. The impact almost knocked Inchigo forward a step, but he managed to keep to his feet and he grinned wider. "I told you, Byakuya Kuchiki - I can see all of your moves now. You've lost your advantage!" Ichigo then crouched slightly and shot his right palm up to smack the flattened back edge of Zangetsu's blade - knocking Byakuya's Senbonzakura up and away while Ichigo's hands worked together to spin Zangetsu around so that it might be pointed at his opponent's chest.

Zangetsu spun in the air before its tip dug into the brown dirt which covered the majority of Seretei's plateau. The dirt flew out ahead of Zangetsu as Ichigo brought it up and then stabbed it forward towards Byakuya's chest after he finished spinning himself around too.

(Note: Same block and attack routine gives Ichigo +20 Reiatsu and -20 Focus. Ichigo has 30 Reiatsu and 970 Focus.)

Byakuya:

Byakuya's eyes narrowed a bit as the ryoka blocked another attack. Although that was expected based upon the ryoka's ability when last they met his words continued to profess abilities that in Byakuya's mind could not possibly have been achieved so quickly. Then his sword was knocked away and Byakuya began to move back a step to get his Zanpakutou reset for a defense against an expected counterattack but it was no good. Ichigo got Zangetsu into attack position before Byakuya could get Senbonzakura back into position for an effective defense. The tip of the blade was never going to pierce Byakuya's body though. Summoning all the speed he could muster Byakuya Flash Stepped again.

"You've improved." Byakuya stated as he appeared behind Ichigo, the dust trail still settling in his wake as he said this. The Captain made a feint with Senbonzakura after getting it back to guard position, but at the last moment Flash Stepped a second time in order to reappear at the ryoka's right flank. This time when he reappeared though he intended to go through with his strike and run through the boy's stomach. "But even so you have not improved enough."

(Note: Each Flash Step counts as an action in this example, so two FS plus an attack gives him +30 Reiatsu and -30 Focus. Byakuya has 50 Reiatsu and 950 Focus.)

Ichigo:

Ichigo's eyes widened with surprise as Byakuya Flash Stepped away from his stab. It was the first time the man had ever moved to evade such a simple strike. Maybe Ichigo had finally surprised the bastard. Either way, seeing Bakuya slide behind him Ichigo turned to block that strike, only to be surprised when the Shimigami Flash Stepped again. Ichigo temporarily lost his grin as he switched his grip, sticking Zangetsu into the ground on Ichigo's right side. The two Zanpakutou met again, accompanied by sparks and the sound of grinding metal. Ichigo then ripped his sword from the ground and Flast Stepped himself - this time moving outside of Byakuya's reach. "That might be true. I'm not disputing that. All I'm saying is - your speed doesn't work on me anymore. Come on, show me what you've got!"

Ichigo then Flash Stepped himself, appearing near Byakuya's left side in order to bring Zangetsu in for a sweeping slash from that side. This however, was only part of Ichigo's attack. After the first slash, expecting a deflection, Ichigo would then Flash Step again to repeat the same attack from the right before Flash Stepping a third time in order to try another overhead strike from above. Not that he was expecting much success from his efforts but he wasn't here to merely clash swords with Byakuya time and again. He was after a goal far more elusive. The only question was whether Ichigo could crack the Shinigami's cool facade and provoke him into using his Bankai.

(Note: Block, 4 FS, and 3 attacks = +80 Reiatsu and -80 Focus. Ichigo now has 110 Reiatsu and 890 Focus.)

Byakuya:

Byakuya did not bother responding to the provoations of the ryoka. At this point, it was merely a distraction. The ryoka had managed to get his Zanpakutou in place quick enough to deflect the strike, which was no small feat. Byakuya allowed the child that much in the way of credit - and he watched Ichigo Step away from him. But now the ryoka had taken up the offensive. First was a Flash Step to the right, which Byakuya deflected. But instead of staying to lock swords, the ryoka Flash Stepped again. Easily able to see his enemy's movements Byakuya Flash Stepped himself. Their blades met in mid-air, sparks and flashes of their colliding Reiatsu manifesting as tendrils of lightning snaking away from each impact. Then came another Flash Step and Byakuya was compelled to counter that movement with one of his own. Their weapons sang a sorrowful song as they rang from the violent impact as both combantants swung their weapons. The impact produced a shockwave sufficient to knock both Shinigami away from each other and they skidded away from each other on the ground for a second as a result.

The dust kicked up from their passing faded quickly away from them as Byakuya took a moment to consider a change in strategy. Although it should not have been necessary it was growing increasingly aggrivating to watch such an inexperienced ryoka deflect his strikes. He would not release his Zanpakutou against such an opponent. Not unless he had no other choice. Therefore, his only option was to rely on a heavy assault using the speed of his Flash Step. Knowing the ryoka would be able to keep pace with him for know Byakuya was content to slowly wear down the Ryoka's defenses. "On the surface it may appear that our speed is equal - however this is not the case. You cannot win this battle, you are simply delaying the inevitable."

Byakuya Flash Stepped, moving as quickly as he could behind the ryoka and slashing at his back with Senbonzakura. This was followed by a combination of five other Flash Steps, each one targeting a different limb of the Ryoka, testing his defenses and the speed of his Flash Step. Byakuya would see where the limits of this child lay. There was no doubt in his mind that no untrained human being could stand before an elite member of the 13 Court Guard Squads. It was a true impossibility.

(Note: 2 block, 8 FS, and 6 attacks = +160 Reiatsu and -160 Focus. Byakuya now has 210 Reiatsu and 790 Focus. The swordplay before barely drained their focus, but now you can clearly see how much extensively large actions take out of you.)

Ichigo:

The attacks poured right on in. Ichigo however, was determined to make Byakuya release his bankai and so sought to meet Byakuya move-for-move. Each Flash Step from Byakuya was met with a Flash Step from Ichigo. The two Shinigami moved faster than any untrained eye could see, completeing a violent symphony of ringing blades and flashes of released Reiatsu as both fighters poured their all into their efforts to strike down the other. Each of their six points of collision came with such force that it cracked the ground upon which they stood. The dried dirt on the topspoil ignored completely as the rock below shattered from these impacts to send plumes of dust and debris into the air to mark their passage. Finally however at the sixth collision they stopped moving, their blades locked in a silent struggle for dominence as both Shinigami evaluated the strength of the other.

But for Ichigo he knew that this wasn't working as well as he wanted it to. Sure he was making Byakuya actually put some effort into the fight, but the completely placid expression on the man's face showed he wasn't going to give Ichigo the satisfaction of using his Bankai. Bastard would probably rather die then use Bankai just to spite me. Ichigo looked into Byakuya's hardened blue eyes and held that unflinching, determined gaze. Which you know, sounds just like him. Ichigo knew it was now or never. Air began to cycle around Ichigo as his body glowed with a pale blue light to mark the fact that he was beginning to gather his Reiatsu. This action also redoubled his strength, and he took advantage of this to rush forward and knock Byakuya away from him. Ichigo then took another step forward as he brought Zangetsu down from above in a big slice in order to release his special attack.

"Let's see how you like my Getsuga Tensho, Byakuya!" Ichigo shouted with a grin as a half-cresent wave of compressed Reiatsu shot out from Zangetsu and tore through the ground on its way towards Byakuya.

(Note: And the fun part begins. 6 seperate attacks, 6 FS. Normally this would mean +120 Reiatsu and -120 Focus to give Ichigo a total of 230 Reiatsu and 770 Focus. However, Ichigo's Getsuga Tensho costs 50 Reiatsu and 10 Focus to use. So we subtract that cost from these totals. Ichigo now has 180 Reiatsu and 760 Focus.)

Byakuya:

Byakuya's eyes widened in surprise as the ryoka began gathering his Reiatsu, obviously for an attack. A moment ago they had been locked in a struggle designed to test their strength, evaluating the other. Rashly this foolish child had apparently decided to take things up another notch. A compressed burst of Reiatsu, an attack the Ryoka apparently called Getsuga Tensho burst forth, and Byakuya had no choice but to Flash Step out of its path as the attack swept over him. In moments the attack's destructive effects had passed and Byakuya reappeared some distance away from Ichigo. Byakuya looked at Seretei, and at the scar left upon it by the power of the Ryoka's Getsuga Tensho. A triangular path from the middle of Sokkyoku Hill extended all the way to the edge of the plateau.

Clearly, the attack was very powerful. Byakuya closed his eyes for a moment, working to keep his irritation in check. These Ryoka had burst unwelcome into Soul Society and disrupted the natural process of law and order within its confines. No one had given them that right. The laws of society were absolute. He had sworn that on his parent's grave, a vow also given to preserve the honor of his clan. Neither could be allowed to be violated. The rule of law was what he had promised to uphold. Sighing, Byakuya opened his eyes again to look at the Ryoka's grinning face for a moment. A breeze picked up, and Byakuya came to realize he felt it through his robes. He looked down at his right shoulder and saw the damage Getsuga Tensho had done to the right sleeve of his robes. Another insult to Byakuya's pride.

This could not be allowed to continue further. "Very well then. I will show you what you wished to see." Byakuya said as he held Senbonzakura out before his face, the side of its blade facing towards him as he closed his eyes again to focus his own Reiatsu. "I will reveal the gap in power between us that you could not close even with a thousand years of training. Scatter, Senbonzakura!" Byakuya's Zanpakutou scattered into thousands of tiny pink rose petals which swarmed around him as though carried along with the wind. Byakuya opened his eyes as he regarded the ryoka. "Now you will understand why you never should have come to this place."

The rose petals scattered, heading in all directions along the ground before finally converging on their target: Ichigo. If he did not move he would be swept up in their fury.

(Note: YAY! Shikai form at last! :p Shikai release costs 100 Reiatsu and 100 Focus. Scatter, Senbonzakura costs another 30 Reiatsu and 30 Focus. However, releasing his Shikai and using his Scatter command count as actions, so he gets the usual +20 Reiatsu and -20 Focus. This leaves Byakuya with 100 Reiatsu and 640 Focus. When you consider two rounds ago he was at over 800 Focus and so far he's only busted out Shikai you can see how little 1000 of anything really is here.)

Ichigo:

Ichigo wasn't surprised to see Byakuya Flash Step away from danger. However, it did make him grin a bit when Byakuya lifted up his sleeve to find part of the large and puffy sleeve was cut away. The comedy of the moment was soon replaced by a feeling of immense satisfaction as Byakuya stated that he'd show Ichigo what he wanted to see. Ichigo had not yet seen either of Byakuya Kuchiki's releases, but he had seen their after effects for himself. On Ganju, and others. He wanted to face that power, to best it, and then demand answers for how Byakuya could not act to save his own sister. Ichigo watched as Byakuya lifted his sword near his face, and then prattled a bit more before giving his release command.

Ichigo almost sweatdropped when he saw Byakuya's Shikai. Pink... flowers... what the Hell? Ichigo thought to himself. He didn't expect something so unusual out of a Captain. He figured with Byakuya being so strong he'd have his own version of Getsuga Tensho... or at least something else. But flower petals had not made Ichigo's list. Unfortunately, the humor of that Zakpakutou release ended there, as after delivering another threat, the petals scattered. Ichigo's eyes widened in surprise as he lost sight of them for a second. He gasped as when he finally found them again they were already gathering near his feet! Ichigo jumped, using Flash Step to speed up his evasion. Had to, as barely a split second later a huge mass of pink flower petals swarmed the spot he had just been standing in.

Man... if I'd been any slower... Ichigo thought to himself in surprise as he narrowed his eyes at Byakuya. His grin was gone for the moment, a look of stern concentration having replaced it. This was it. This was the power Ichigo was determined to face and defeat with just his Shikai. He began to glow again as he focused his Reiatsu into Zangetsu's blade. "Getsuga Tensho!" He shouted as he cut loose with another of his special attacks aimed for Byakuya's torso. If Ichigo was lucky Byakuya would be too busy controlling his Shikai to notice and dodge the attack in time.

(Note: Another FS, another Getsuga Tensho. +10 Reiatsu, -10 Focus. -50 Reiatsu, -10 Focus for the Getsuga Tensho. Ichigo now has 140 Reiatsu and 740 Focus.)

Byakuya:

The ryoka had Flash Stepped to evade Senbonzakura's first attack, Byakuya noted. Ichigo then focused his Reiatsu for another attack. Senbonzakura, under Byakuya's direction, scattered once more as the ryoka launched his attack. The petals appeared again, only this time as a barrier between Byakuya and the Getsuga Tensho. The wall of petals easily deflected the attack, and with but a thought the remaining portion of Senbonzakura not required to deflect Getsuga Tensho appeared behind Ichigo intent to impale him through his back. As that happened, the wall before Byakuya broke apart, flowing around the Shinigami and traveling along the ground below the ryoka until it finally burst upwards from the ground as though it were a spike meant to impale the enemy. To complete the omni-directional attack nature of Senbonzakura the stream of blades that struck first would come about for a second strike on the ryoka - this time from the front and below.

Through it all, Byakuya remained standing where he was. Calm and collected as always to the world, he knew this power would be more than the ryoka would be able to compete with. With the power of Senbonzakura Byakuya would uphold the laws of society and provide the necessary example for others to follow. Even if it was not what he personally wanted to do. "Do you understand now, boy? Senbonzakura's Shikai form allows me to both attack and defend simultaneously. I can command it at the speed of my own thought, and that gives me a power you cannot hope to match."

(Note: 4 uses of Senbonzakura here, so that's +40 Reiatsu and -40 Focus, subtracting the -120 Reiatsu and -120 Focus for those uses leaves Byakuya with 20 Reiatsu and 480 Focus. Byakuya has now consumed over half of his Focus but it's worth it as the omni-directional nature of his attacks are hard to evade. But they also wear him out more quickly.)

Ichigo:

Ichigo had to admit to being shocked that Byakuya's Senbonzakura was able to deflect Getsuga Tensho. However, he wasn't given much time to think about it as a stream of those tiny petals appeared behind him. Ichigo saw them in time and Flash Stepped to evade. However, that was only a momentary reprieve as an immense pillar of them then shot upwards from below. Ichigo didn't have time to evade that so he swung Zangetsu again to produce another Getsuga Tensho to break up the attack. That worked to break up the pillar, but the earlier stream of petals had come around to engage Ichigo again. He just couldn't evade in time. The stream of petals overtook him, soon joined by the remainder of their swarm as they swept him up. That's when Ichigo felt the pain of a thousan tiny blades cutting at him as together Senbonzakura and Inchigo descended towards the barren landscape below.

They hit with enough force to make a crater, and the petals withdrew in the midst of the flying dust and gravel to swirl around Byakuya, awaiting his next command. This just left a bloodied and winded Ichigo to pick himself up as he glared at Byakuya. Damnit... even the Getsuga Tensho won't work on him? Do I have to use Bankai so soon? Ichigo wondered as the two Shinigami stared one another down for a moment as both waited for the other to make a move. "I'll admit it, that's some impressive stuff you've got there. But it's going to take more then that to stop me from saving Rukia, you bastard."

(Note: YAY! Damage! FS + Getsuga Tensho gives +20 Reiatsu and -20 Focus to Ichigo plus the -50 Reiatsu and -10 Focus. However, because Ichigo took damage the cost of using Senbonzakura is added to the subtractions. So that's an additional -30 Reiatsu and -30 Focus for poor Ichigo. So Ichigo now has 70 Reiatsu and 680 Focus. Because when you take damage the attack's costs are inflicted as damage if the damage from an attack drops your Reiatsu down to 0 you automatically lose the battle and must withdraw. If damage drops your Focus to zero, however, you only have to take a rest turn as your next action. However, that opens you up for more damage and possible defeat anyway.)


I ended the example battle there because all of the major elements to the system were already shown by this point.

I know other people have thoughts on how to improve or otherwise modify this system, so feel free to discuss them here, in this thread.
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Bishonen_Pimp
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It actually still is; Shini Challenge I.

I hadn't looked and didn't know if Loto or myself had cleaned the sim forum out. It's all the way back on page 3.

I still love that example.

Anyway, the idea I came up with was to not have shikai and bankai actually cost reiatsu. In the series (manga/anime w/e, I'm just calling them both collective as the series to make it simpler) whenever a character releases their shikai or more obvious their bankai, their is an explosion of energy (visually) and they actually gain more power then just more abilities.

So in order to put this in numbers, a shikai release would cost 100 focus and give the user 10% of their total reiatsu (at 1000 total reiatsu pool, 100 reiatsu would be gained), with bankai, 500 focus would be used and 50% of the users reiatsu pool would become 'full" (at 1000 reiatsu pool, 500 reiatsu would be gained). The reason why I used percentages was so that a stronger character would actually seem stronger (Yamamoto's shikai release unleashes a lot more power then even Ichigo's bankai release).

This would move the build-up of reiatsu to the strict use of kido and abilities. Going with this, I believe Flash Stepping should cost reiatsu also (-10 reiatsu/- 10 focus) since it does take some skill, concentration, and power to do it; though an alternate idea by Koji (and I think Fate too) was to still have a Flash Step give +10 reiatsu, but cost -20 focus instead.

As for Kido, I'm still finalizing my thoughts on possible ways to tie it in more with a characters power, since stronger characters in the series have stronger kido then weaker ones even if its the same spell (ie. the difference between Byakuya's kido use and Rukia's kido use). Just off the top of my head, each kido tier (20s, 30s, 40s, 90s lvl kido) could simply by the maximum percentage of reiatsu/focus used to fire the spell. So for ie. a fighter with 1000/1000 reiatsu/focus firing a lvl 90 kido, would be able to put anywhere between 90 and 900 reiatsu/focus into the attack, while a 500/500 reiatsu/focus fighter could only put between 90 and 450 reiatsu/focus (ignoring that a 500/500 fighters shouldn't be able to do such a high lvl kido anyway lol)
Zekes_Rival: You see, what they don't show is that when Gato ovary-punched Nina, he aborted Kou Uraki's baby and replaced it with his own seed.

Zekes_Rival: Vist was like "Oh dear! I am scared old man!" and LondoBell was like "Lol!" and then Vist was like "ROFLMAO JUST KIDDING! -neck snap-"

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Fate
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"Can you feel it coming..."
Well, to be honest I had considered this method as well. However, there are a few reasons why I did not go with it.

The first is that I believed Flash Stepping and Kido should cost Reiatsu, not gain it. Both abilities are actions that require a fair amount of power. But, I made a concession and allowed Flash Stepping to gain Reiatsu because I didn't want to limit the second-biggest Shinigami battle skill by making it a drain only. The -20 Focus drain in this case seemed a suitable compromise. Kido however, I don't see gaining Reiatsu because it is a pure Reiatsu ability outside of the Zanpakutou's ability set.

The second is that if characters' strength is measured by Reiatsu output, then characters with low Reiatsu counts (Quincy's/Bounts, most bread-and-butter Hollows) will become pointless to play. Even if we permit the Quincy Reishi theft, that'll only come into play if their opponent is kind enough to launch attacks that use lots of Reishi and/or stand in a battlefield with loads of the stuff. Both conditions can easily lead to powergaming. I didn't want that headache and at the time I had no solutions for them so I discarded it.

If we can work around those problems, I'd be fine with it.

The thing is though, Bleach practically calls for percentage of power solutions because the canon establishes (consistently) that while Kido and other abilities are commonly used by nearly every group in Bleach, certain characters are much more proficient at them. Hard caps would not necessarily bring this out in the RP, but percentage-based power systems would. So on that front I wouldn't mind a percentage-based system being used on the condition that some thought is spared for Quincy's and other Human-utilized powers that don't get a lot of Reiatsu to blast stuff with.

Thus, we go back to my first problem. If a Shikai release for a 1k capped Shinigami was used, and thus at 10% gain he gets 100 Reiatsu, then he'd get 10 Flash Steps out of the gain. This is before we even get into the costs of him launching attacks. Even the percentage-based system does not address what I think is the core problem - Bleach is designed for swordplay and not necessarily special attack exchanges. Once that +100 boost is used up (and in the example above, Ichigo would walk into that fight with two Getsuga Tensho's loaded and ready to go - and he used considerably more than two of them during that fight) we're right back to the problem of insufficient gains being made on the swordplay to power further special attack launches.

So, I'm thinking that the solution may lie with the swordplay itself. Though it may seem silly, if we upped the swordplay bonus to +20 Reiatsu while keeping it to -10 Reiatsu we'll basically double the Reiatsu generation rate. In the Shinigami's Challenge that would have been more than sufficient to have allowed us to launch more Kido spells and Shikai releases without constantly depleting our Reiatsu. Meanwhile, we can put Flash Steps at +10 Reiatsu, -30 Focus to help balance out the increased Reiatsu gains. As at that rate on a 1k cap, 3 Flash Steps will knock off 10% of your total Focus.

I believe that's where the problem actually lies. The percentage-based power system for sword releases and kido spells can address every problem except for insufficient Reiatsu gain. That problem can be fixed by rebalancing the Reiatsu/Focus gain rates to get the kind of attack buildup we want while at the same time keeping the necessary drain on Focus to keep everyone competitive with each other.
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Drathmar Darkstar
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I like the idea of Shikai and Bankai not costing reiatsu for the reasons Noah said above, as well as the fact that many fights in the series they don't even bother with non-shikai anymore so it obviously can be used first thing in a fight.

Also if you want to restrict kido by strength, make it so you can only know a kido if the level bracket it falls under is less than 10% of your reiatsu (so if you have 400 reiatsu total, you can use lvl 49 and below kido)

As for flash step, the only thing with it costing reiatsu is it is also used pretty much all the time without needing any build up or anything.

That in fact brings me to my one problem with this system. Shinigami don't ever seem to build up their power through attacking and defending, though I do admit in most cases the longer a fight goes on the more they put into it so the stronger they seem, so I can see it working in that way. It just seems weird for them not to be able to use special abilities right away (though, I guess they never use any outside of shikai and a few times bankai right away.)

Lastly, another question... what about full-time released zanpakuto (ones always in shikai form like Ichigo's)

Also since you are making everything else percentage based while not make reiatsu gain as well and costs?

So with each attack you would gain +5% of your total reiatsu (or 1% or something in there.) So using the example above if you gained lets say 2%, and had 1,000 total you would gain 20 reiatsu per swing, and it would take 50 swings to get to full power.

Then have things like flash step cost 3% of you focus and gain 1% reiatsu (which with the 1,000 example would keep it at -30/+10).

The reason I suggest this is it makes sense for stronger chars to build up faster but also for their moves to cost more (since they are more powerful).

Also... with Quincy, we only really have Ishida to go on, and he is probably low captain level reiatsu wise, same with chad who seems around Renji's level now, so its not like they CANT get that much reiatsu. Same for bount, the leader was greater than both ichigo and byakuya at the time. As for hollow, who would want to play a normal one anyway, most people would only want to play adjuchas or arrancar.

The only way I could see people playing low level ones is if you had a game system (not combat) where people got stronger over time... so people could evolve their hollows through the levels. Though that brings in an issue of how to do it fairly and stop people abusing it.

Maybe a certain gain per each RP topic completed? (would rather do this than post count as people can spam RP for higher post count) etc.

Just some thoughts.
Edited by Drathmar Darkstar, May 26 2010, 11:34 AM.
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Idk why Quinces and Bounts are considered weak in the reiatsu department. Ishida has shown Ichigo up for power and skill almost every single fight. He was taking on and beating captains in the Soul Society Arch where Ichigo could barely take on Lieutenants, and in the latest arch he was (imo at least) doing better against Cifer in his second release then Ichigo had done in any part of their fight. I don't think you can fire 1200 reiatsu arrows a second and not have a lot of reiatsu. Ishida just uses it more efficiently then Ichigo's giant "throw everything I have at them at once" attacks. As for the rest (@Fate), I think your right, at least enough to test it and see. The +20 Reiatsu/-10 Focus for basic attacks/defense and +10 reiatsu/-30 focus will be good, though just for safety's sake, dropping the focus cost of a flash step to -20 just to see how much of a difference that makes first.

@Drath
The full time release zanpakuto are exceptions to the rules imo. Only Zaraki and Ichigo have them, Ichigo b/c he's plot armored up the shit (he's "special") and Zaraki I have no idea. Yamamoto is stronger then Zaraki but doesn't have a constant release and Zaraki doesn't even know the name of his sword, though as of most recently he appears to know its gender at least. Zaraki is just kinky like that I guess. But I don't think we should worry about plot based ability above what's consistent.

The only qualms I have about having everything percentage based is it's a lot of math and different math for each individual player. However, it wouldn't be a bad option to go with, for kido or otherwise. Like you said, a character with 1000 caps will end up reaching their top limit much faster then a character with a 10,000 cap, however using percentages would not only keep the balance of power between a strong and weak opponent, but allow them to still reach their limit equally as fast. Thinking about it, it may even be more true to the series too. However with the above percentage way of doing it, Shikai/Bankai/etc. would have to cost reiatsu in order to prevent a imbalance of the system. So to figure that out, I think it comes down to, "do we have shikai/bankai to cost reiatsu or not". If the answer is yes we do, blanket the percentages. if the answer is no, just use the percentages for kido and the reiatsu gain of shikai/bankai/etc.

But don't confuse the current state of the series with where we would start out. Imo we'd want it to start out on the lvl of the beginning of the series (kinda), not with everyone having all the powers off the bat. Which leads me into the scale problem. Imo you should have at least 2000/2000 reiatsu/focus to first achieve bankai, 500/500 reiatsu/focus to achieve shikai, with most characters (at least later on, not necessarily at the beginning) starting at 200/200 reiatsu/focus.

Anyway, I don't see a problem with someone starting out as a normal rank-and-file Hollow. I actually wanted too. However the idea would be to have 'missions' ('Hunts' for Hollows, 'Missions' for Shinigami, idk just thinking out loud) for the hollow to go out and attack/eat souls, with shinigami trying to stop them every so often. And like you said have build-up/development of a character based on topics and/or post count.
Zekes_Rival: You see, what they don't show is that when Gato ovary-punched Nina, he aborted Kou Uraki's baby and replaced it with his own seed.

Zekes_Rival: Vist was like "Oh dear! I am scared old man!" and LondoBell was like "Lol!" and then Vist was like "ROFLMAO JUST KIDDING! -neck snap-"

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Drathmar Darkstar
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Explain why shikai and bankai would have to cost reiatsu if everything was percentage based? It would basically just be a large focus cost for a large reiatsu gain and abilities.

Like Shikai would be maybe.. 20% focus for 10% reiatsu and bankai 50% focus for 30% or 40% reiatsu.

Or make it even, 20 for 20, 50 for 50
Edited by Drathmar Darkstar, May 26 2010, 01:27 PM.
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B/c of the amount of reiatsu you gained from every little thing especially the stronger you get. Based purely on percentages, a character with 10,000 reiatsu/focus for ie. would nvr have to worry about anything. Literally 1 basic sword attack and they could launch off up to a 200 reiatsu/focus special attack. Maybe that won't actually be a problem, since there is no way to recover focus unless you stand there and let yourself get lol'd, but like I said either way it should be tested.

On a side note, and adding something else, I don't think you should be killed just be going to 0 reiatsu. You start at 0 reiatsu and can bring yourself down to 0 reiatsu. I think maiming/death should be up to RP (letting your arm get cut off, or repeatedly getting cut in the same arm...good bye arm), while if you let yourself drop to 0 focus, you as before simply pass out. In order to regain focus, you must do nothing for an entire post (attack or defend) and it restores 25% of your focus by resting.

But if we did, 5-10% focus cost and 5-10% reiatsu gain for shikai and 20%-30% focus cost and 10-20% reiatsu gain for bankai seems reasonable (just lowered your numbers, they seemed high to me).

Zekes_Rival: You see, what they don't show is that when Gato ovary-punched Nina, he aborted Kou Uraki's baby and replaced it with his own seed.

Zekes_Rival: Vist was like "Oh dear! I am scared old man!" and LondoBell was like "Lol!" and then Vist was like "ROFLMAO JUST KIDDING! -neck snap-"

Fate: OG: Koji should know, he confused him for a loli. <--- ... I will kill you. :P
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Drathmar Darkstar
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I was going by you having 1,000 reiatsu and gaining 500 from bankai lol.

Also, with your example about percentages, all the costs would be by percentage as well. So a normal sword swing would cost like 2% focus (instead of 10 focus). Ya its a lot of math but meh I think percentages work better for any variable system where not everyone is the same strength.

Plus percents are easy >>.
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First off about Ishida:

For all the 1,200 arrows he can fire, the amount of damage they actually do dramatically decreases as the canon progresses. And as I recall Ishida himself in his backstory confirms that as Humans Quincy do not possess significant amounts of Reiatsu. Hence their reliance on battle accessories and harnessing Reishi. That's how they gain their powers. The current system is Reiatsu-based in terms of evaluating strength which is precisely what Quincy's do not have a lot of.

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Ishida has shown Ichigo up for power and skill almost every single fight.


Ishida's only real Captain fight against Mayuri ended ineffectually since not only did he fail to kill Mayuri he would have died from that poison he was afflicted with had he not received aid. His strength has always been his judgment true enough but really he's always been handicapped in terms of strength.

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Same for bount, the leader was greater than both ichigo and byakuya at the time.


Only after he absorbed massive amounts of spiritual energy from his bug-things, and even then he still took more Reishi during the fight. He was still heavily reliant on other sources to gain his Reiatsu other then his own power.

As for the error in thinking implied by the statement that later on in the series non-Shikai isn't bothered with anymore... even in Bankai swords and everything else still get used if they're present. Which is the point. It has nothing to do with non-Shikai abilities and all about utilizing the rampant swordplay of Bleach where possible as a method of advancement. Pure and simple.

Now then, moving on to the point-by-point:

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Also if you want to restrict kido by strength, make it so you can only know a kido if the level bracket it falls under is less than 10% of your reiatsu (so if you have 400 reiatsu total, you can use lvl 49 and below kido)


Already done, honestly.

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It just seems weird for them not to be able to use special abilities right away


It is weird, however it is also necessary. Do remember, it is a game first and foremost. The restrictions put on young characters must apply to stronger ones as well.

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1. ...so people could evolve their hollows through the levels.

2. Though that brings in an issue of how to do it fairly and stop people abusing it.


1. The original intention was for all character types to advance through training. Hence the Reiatsu/Focus system.

2. The simplest way is to lean on the percentages. The Reiatsu/Focus gained is a percentage of what they've used in battle. The combat system already limits how far characters can take a battle, so it will be handled fairly overall.

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So to figure that out, I think it comes down to, "do we have shikai/bankai to cost reiatsu or not". If the answer is yes we do, blanket the percentages. if the answer is no, just use the percentages for kido and the reiatsu gain of shikai/bankai/etc.


I still say that yes, we should. If releasing a Zanpakutou didn't cost them any energy then there would be no need for separate release states in the first place. Unless Shinigami have no concept of efficiency. :P

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Anyway, I don't see a problem with someone starting out as a normal rank-and-file Hollow. I actually wanted too. However the idea would be to have 'missions' ('Hunts' for Hollows, 'Missions' for Shinigami, idk just thinking out loud) for the hollow to go out and attack/eat souls, with shinigami trying to stop them every so often. And like you said have build-up/development of a character based on topics and/or post count.


Mission setups never work, let's just be clear on that. Hence why I wanted character advancement to come through battles. Everyone is going to get into a fight at some point in the RP, so I had envisioned letting them get some character advancement out of doing so. Makes it more of a good investment of their time.

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On a side note, and adding something else, I don't think you should be killed just be going to 0 reiatsu.


Think more along the lines of KO'd and less about character death. If Focus was allowed to be recovered it would then become a game exploit. Two people could advance their Reiatsu/Focus to insane levels by pushing the other to the point of Focus restoring and yet intentionally avoiding a killing blow.

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Also, with your example about percentages, all the costs would be by percentage as well. So a normal sword swing would cost like 2% focus (instead of 10 focus)


Which means that overall in this case, the effect of percentages gives us no additional benefit to red tape (as whether by hard cap or percentages, relative parity in combat endurance is achieved). Thus, there is no reason to switch it over to percentages unless we go with OG's blanket percentages option.

But OG's point remains true. A character with 10,000 Reiatsu could throw around and attack that would KO a beginning player. And they could do it without releasing. This is not a desired outcome, as it would lead to endless bitching about unfairness. How are younglings supposed to advance when the vets keep schooling them every time they're looked at funny?
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Each individual arrow doesn't do a lot of damage, the power is spread out. But 1200 arrows is still a lot of effing arrows O.o But your point is valid non-the less. However as you point out before Ishida is really the only Quincy we've seen a lot of. However just one of his father's arrows looked like it caused several times more damage then his did, so it may be an issue with Ishida and not Quincy's all together.


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It just seems weird for them not to be able to use special abilities right away



It is weird, however it is also necessary. Do remember, it is a game first and foremost. The restrictions put on young characters must apply to stronger ones as well.


That's basically what I was trying to get at. It just provides better game mechanics.

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I still say that yes, we should. If releasing a Zanpakutou didn't cost them any energy then there would be no need for separate release states in the first place. Unless Shinigami have no concept of efficiency.


Separate release states is as much if not more of a story mechanic as it is a combat mechanic though. And (while this back-peddles on what I've been telling Drath) not all characters have separate release states; ie. Ichigo, and we've seen character go from unreleased to bankai without having to go through shikai first. And bare in mind that I upped the focus cost for at least bankai release compared to what you originally had it at. You set it to 200, and in my suggestion with having it gain reiatsu I had it cost 500 instead. But that is also adjustable with scale so...

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But OG's point remains true. A character with 10,000 Reiatsu could throw around and attack that would KO a beginning player. And they could do it without releasing. This is not a desired outcome, as it would lead to endless bitching about unfairness. How are younglings supposed to advance when the vets keep schooling them every time they're looked at funny?


Which is why I think maybe using percentages for everything might not be a good idea after all. If said percentage blanket is not used, it's going to take forever to build up reiatsu. At the very least I think bankai should let you gain reiatsu and shikai do nothing but cost focus. Characters in the series gain power when they go bankai not lose it (or I should say lose an exceedingly large amount of it, with focus being a cost, it is costing something).

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Think more along the lines of KO'd and less about character death. If Focus was allowed to be recovered it would then become a game exploit. Two people could advance their Reiatsu/Focus to insane levels by pushing the other to the point of Focus restoring and yet intentionally avoiding a killing blow.


Wait during the shinigami challenge test you said that we could rest to recover focus, that when u hit 0 u had to sit on your duff and get smacked and after that your focus got totally recovered. I just think having reiatsu, which is at 0 a lot during the fight be an additional qualifier for being KO'd is silly XD

Zekes_Rival: You see, what they don't show is that when Gato ovary-punched Nina, he aborted Kou Uraki's baby and replaced it with his own seed.

Zekes_Rival: Vist was like "Oh dear! I am scared old man!" and LondoBell was like "Lol!" and then Vist was like "ROFLMAO JUST KIDDING! -neck snap-"

Fate: OG: Koji should know, he confused him for a loli. <--- ... I will kill you. :P
OG: Koji should know, he confused him for a loli.
Kojiru: No, Fate is a 13 year old evil child genius bent on world domination.
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