| Lessons on Propaganda, 101; Brought to you by Nikolai Veli! | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Jul 21 2009, 10:42 AM (773 Views) | |
| Nikolai Veli | Jul 22 2009, 09:48 AM Post #11 |
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First off >Pig-headed, sheep-fondling, degenerates with email accounts and a mouse< is awesome. Secondly, I see what you're talking about Asher, I'm enjoying the bit of verbal skirmish we're having with them at the comments. And Osmany! You say that like it's not the norm in the states! D= |
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A society that believes in nothing is particularly frightened by people who believe in anything. "Did you hear about how healthcare will make us a socialist-facist-musli-warblgarblwarblgarbl" -Standardized nutjob talking points, summarized for your convenience. | |
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| Phoenix Quinn | Jul 22 2009, 01:45 PM Post #12 |
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Director of Public Relations
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Interesting analogy (sp?) Nikolai, of propaganda = force. I'd never really considered it that way. But you're right, brow-beating and ridiculing is a type of aggression, isn't it? And this is, at least in large part, clearly a war game... so is that a bad thing? Hmm, I suppose the challenge is in finding and walking the line between building up the real, human relationships between human-players and the make-believe/gaming relationships between player-avatars, while keeping a sense of honesty, humor, fair-play, and compassion... and still using all the game mechanisms effectively. It is kind of like football, I guess. I used to do a lot of soccer refereeing for kids leagues and I never hesitated to tell parents that their kids would forfeit the game if they didn't stop swearing and interfering. Never changed much behavior, but it did give me a chance to pontificate about sportsmanship... |
![]() Monsieur DuPont expects not a discovery of solutions, but an appropriately scaled and directed revolt against reflexive conditions. | |
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| Daniel Jacob Asher | Jul 22 2009, 02:05 PM Post #13 |
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Affinity member, sometime writer
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I agree! It's got to be good-natured. I acknowledge I can be inflammatory, but I'm making a lot of effort just to report what's going on. I admit my last article threw around several more adjectives than had been the norm of the last couple of weeks or so, at least publicly but suffice it to say, I really don't believe these other men and women who play from other nations are "fascists". They have just adopted the title "totalitarian" or "authoritarian" for themselves as a "role".In contrast, take a look at the eUS. EVERY PARTY(read: somewhat-serious party), regardless of political philosophy describes themselves as "libertarian". And that's what we've chosen to represent, too. |
| ~Daniel Jacob Asher, XO US Army 5/3, eNova Communications | |
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| Nikolai Veli | Jul 22 2009, 02:35 PM Post #14 |
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I was reading some stuff on Leo Strauss (while watching "The power of Nightmares") and I noticed something interesting. Strauss thought that to defend against the nihilism he saw inherent in liberalism, there needed to be a moral relativism*. displayed in the politicians, even should they disbelieve it. (Basically his defense against Nietzsche's "Life-giving delusion or deadly truth".) I think this Straussian line of thinking is noticeable and applicable in game as well as RL, if you remember, I believe it was Zoli, stated they wanted another WW to bring their population back into the game, or have them gain more enjoyment from it. This leads me to believe that propaganda's power is in appealing to the competitive spirit of the Human mind, and by extension, the ego. It seems to me that propaganda is at least partial inherent in humans, rather than taught. *I used moral relativism in a quite liberal way (forgive the oxymoron) in that I meant it to be an outside force that motivates the populous to look outside of itself or it's government problems to the external threat/attention to morality they perceive. EDIT: I agree it's all in good fun when it comes to eRep, I think we all take a large amount of enjoyment from political discourse and debate, and although it can get heated I don't think anyone *here* actually has a "good v. evil" type of thought pattern. (Except against Ajay, in Bayer's case )
Edited by Nikolai Veli, Jul 22 2009, 02:37 PM.
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A society that believes in nothing is particularly frightened by people who believe in anything. "Did you hear about how healthcare will make us a socialist-facist-musli-warblgarblwarblgarbl" -Standardized nutjob talking points, summarized for your convenience. | |
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| Nikolai Veli | Jul 22 2009, 02:38 PM Post #15 |
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Oh! And I think Strauss mistook Liberalism for materialism and the pure capitalistic system the U.S. is built on. Think if he would have thought that instead, what neo-cons would be now... |
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A society that believes in nothing is particularly frightened by people who believe in anything. "Did you hear about how healthcare will make us a socialist-facist-musli-warblgarblwarblgarbl" -Standardized nutjob talking points, summarized for your convenience. | |
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| Daniel Jacob Asher | Jul 22 2009, 02:48 PM Post #16 |
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Affinity member, sometime writer
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We have a societal compulsion. A neurotic compulsion to name things. Compartmentalize them, too, but we'd rather if possible, put a name on it and imbue it with value x. Kant wrote about the phenomenon in the little booklet "The Metaphysics of Morality" concerning collective "manifestation" of circumstances. William James touched on it much later in "The Varieties of Religious Experience". Jung took it from there. And things like fascism, for instance, is to me, when a society or group acts on a very mystical, very much needed avenue for communion and ritual in their lives, and someone, or some sub-group of society, has already "named" it for us, therefore shaping our mystical experience, and our love and energy, directing it, and ultimately co-opting it. In the hands of wounded, broken societies, it is especially powerful. Disenfranchised groups of people, the potential very strong. Anyway, I'd call anyone in any kind of a war game fascist. Especially if they're tryna invade me. Edited by Daniel Jacob Asher, Jul 22 2009, 02:50 PM.
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| ~Daniel Jacob Asher, XO US Army 5/3, eNova Communications | |
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| Nikolai Veli | Jul 22 2009, 03:08 PM Post #17 |
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On a pointless comment note (As works almost over and I'll continue from home) I'm loving us some philosophical discussion! |
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A society that believes in nothing is particularly frightened by people who believe in anything. "Did you hear about how healthcare will make us a socialist-facist-musli-warblgarblwarblgarbl" -Standardized nutjob talking points, summarized for your convenience. | |
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| Osmany Ramon | Jul 22 2009, 04:26 PM Post #18 |
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Director of International Affairs
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I wouldn't let the "fascists" off the hook that easily. They do not need to be conscious of their "fascist" actions in order to be fascists. Although I would argue that fascism proper needs to be modified here to suit the game mechanics. Perhaps "efascist" is more accurate but they are still acting in accordance with what is the eRepublik's closest proximity to fascism. I don't think they are merely playing a role. if they were, they wouldn't be so wounded to be called "fascists". |
"I'd rather die on my feet than continue living on my knees." - Emiliano Zapata
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| Phoenix Quinn | Jul 22 2009, 04:33 PM Post #19 |
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Director of Public Relations
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Immanuel Kant was a real pissant Who was very rarely stable. Heidegger, Heidegger was a boozy beggar Who could think you under the table. David Hume could out-consume Schopenhauer and Hegel And Wittgenstein was a beery swine Who was just as schloshed as Schlegel. There's nothing Nietzsche couldn't teach ya 'Bout the raising of the wrist. Socrates, himself, was permanently pissed. John Stuart Mill, of his own free will, On half a pint of shandy was particularly ill. Plato, they say, could stick it away-- Half a crate of whisky every day. Aristotle, Aristotle was a bugger for the bottle. Hobbes was fond of his dram, And René Descartes was a drunken fart. 'I drink, therefore I am.' Yes, Socrates, himself, is particularly missed, A lovely little thinker, But a bugger when he's pissed. |
![]() Monsieur DuPont expects not a discovery of solutions, but an appropriately scaled and directed revolt against reflexive conditions. | |
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| Nikolai Veli | Jul 23 2009, 06:29 AM Post #20 |
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Quinn's comment just goes to show you that drugs are to philosophy as what gas is to a car. |
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A society that believes in nothing is particularly frightened by people who believe in anything. "Did you hear about how healthcare will make us a socialist-facist-musli-warblgarblwarblgarbl" -Standardized nutjob talking points, summarized for your convenience. | |
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but suffice it to say, I really don't believe these other men and women who play from other nations are "fascists". They have just adopted the title "totalitarian" or "authoritarian" for themselves as a "role".
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10:32 AM Jul 11