Thoughts on the Battle of Newton

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Thoughts on the Battle of Newton; Fallout New Vegas
Tweet Topic Started: Jan 6 2012, 10:49 AM (449 Views)
ATP Painting Studios	Jan 6 2012, 10:49 AM Post #1
Ghoul Posts: 23 Group: Members Member #403 Joined: Jan 5, 2012	I have been playing a lot of F:NV recently (still only myfirst playthrough though!) and I have just helped the NCR liberate Newton from Ceasar's Legion... ...with five troopers, a cyber-dog, and two power armoured mercenaries (The Courier and her companion, the ex-BoS scribe). So, a battle in the war between the two largest power groups in the West, on their front line, consisted of: An NCR Sergeant, and four troopers, all with rifles. A power armoured merc with assault rifle. A power armoured merc with knuckle dusters (!!) A cyber-dog attacking a fortified position held by: 3 Scouts with machetes and shotguns, 10 legionaries with shotguns and throwing spears 1 Legionary commander with machete 2 Veterans with shotguns 3 Recruits with shotguns, machete, and throwing spears. Several dogs! So 8 versus (at least) 19 (not counting the dogs)! Easily skirmishable I would've thought. The only casualty on the NCR side was a trooper who got in between me and a Legionary, and ended up with a 5mm round in the skull for his trouble. Woops! Does anyone else think that's about right for a PA world, or if it's too few soldiers, or what?



TwoGunBob	Jan 6 2012, 01:20 PM Post #2
Ghoul Posts: 31 Group: Members Member #26 Joined: Aug 5, 2008	Any matchup depends a lot on the rules. The matchup of close range shotguns being outgunned by assault rifles sounds like they measure up well against each other. I'd have to really think about it in contract to what set of rules. Using Golgo Island I'd double the numbers of troops but that game really plays well with me. I'd be curious mostly to see how it ran under 5150 by Two Hour Wargames but I'm an edition behind on how the Reaction System works.



v_lazy_dragon	Jan 6 2012, 01:55 PM Post #3
Enforcer Posts: 7,569 Group: Admins Member #3 Joined: Jul 24, 2008	It sounds about right for the sort of games I've played in the past - I guess it all depends on how many casualties the factions are prepared to take, what kit is available, and how important the objective... If it's essential to the survival of your faction, you're going to comitt more me and material than if it's just a pretty skirmish or minor raid. In terms of rules, Combat zone could handle that many, as could skank (skank could also handle 3 times that many in fairness)



ATP Painting Studios	Jan 6 2012, 03:35 PM Post #4
Ghoul Posts: 23 Group: Members Member #403 Joined: Jan 5, 2012	Hmm, so small forces are just as viable as large collections... I like this more and more! What's Combat Zone like? It's interested me for a while (mainly because I like the idea of getting free stuff via the CoZoChro ezine).



mattblackgod	Jan 6 2012, 09:55 PM Post #5
Big boss warlord dude! Posts: 15,702 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Jul 22, 2008	The force sizes sounds okay. CZ is good fun. They do allow for a mix of qualities in a squad. However they have a different amount of action points for the quality and different sided dice for weapon damage. It makes it fun but can be confusing for newbies. Weapon fire is deadly. The game is fun and easy to learn. I have written quite a few rules on the chronicles.



ATP Painting Studios	Jan 7 2012, 10:31 AM Post #6
Ghoul Posts: 23 Group: Members Member #403 Joined: Jan 5, 2012	Hm, I'll have to pick a copy up then. eM-4 sell it, don't they?



mattblackgod	Jan 7 2012, 11:12 AM Post #7
Big boss warlord dude! Posts: 15,702 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Jul 22, 2008	Yeah they sell it. It's near future based but easily tweaked. They can also come with painted minis. Or loads of plastics. They are not great but with a little putty and a bit of tweaking they can make decent Gangers and vault security/military bunker types. There is also my Post Apoc bolt on rules on the chronicles. Maybe take a look at those before you take the plunge.



Carrakon	Jan 7 2012, 01:40 PM Post #8
Raider Posts: 454 Group: Members Member #175 Joined: Apr 15, 2010	Whether the force size is ok depends on the setting: You have to realize that any group of survivors is confronted with a battery of possible bottle-necks, severely limiting the possible size of the armed forces - especially for the attacker. - Food production: Technology in that regard is pretty much 1800 vintage. That means: no (or very little) artificial fertilizer and a LOT of hard manual labor. Add in the crappy state of the environment and you get a severe limitation in food supply, limiting population size and thus army size. Keep in mind: For every full-time soldier, you need the civilians producing enough food to feed themselves AND those soldiers, as they don't have the time. - Hardware: A soldier obviously needs equipment and somebody has to provide that. Depending on your scenario, providing enough soldiers with anything but sticks and stones might be a hard task. - Demographics: As we have seen, populations probably are relatively small, thus any significant loss of life could severely cripple the group demographically. - Linked to the above: When embarking on expansionist adventurism, you have to deal with the very real possibility that your expeditionary force will be wiped out. -should that happen: Do you have enough power left to defend yourself against other factions? For all these reasons I think that the 'armies' would be very small, indeed. Also the political side of warfare would be more pre-20th century Europe than later. There would be no 'total war' but a number of battles after which the sides meet and discuss terms. Fighting to the very end would probably lead to the winner being so exhausted that he himself becomes easy prey. This is of course for 'reasonable' factions, going to war. Some religious sect with a 'divine mission' would have a different point of view.



mattblackgod	Jan 7 2012, 02:40 PM Post #9
Big boss warlord dude! Posts: 15,702 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Jul 22, 2008	I tend to think the same way, which is why I look at Darkage Europe for inspiration. I tend to think of a army as 50 men in my setting. Even the city states of Nu Sodom and Liberty City (the two largest settlements in my world) can only raise armies of 150 to 250 warriors tops. They can draw militias of 300 to 500 bodies. They tend to be low quality conscripts and equipped rather poorly. They only get used in times of dire emergency. Many small settlements will only have 2 or 3 warriors and can draw militias of 5 or 10 bodies. They have a higher percentage of milita as those in the wastes have more combat experience or they wouldn't be alive.



ATP Painting Studios	Jan 7 2012, 08:25 PM Post #10
Ghoul Posts: 23 Group: Members Member #403 Joined: Jan 5, 2012	Those are all fair points; I suppose force multipliers like terrain and so on become even more important. Lack of petrol to move soldiers and equipment long distances becomes a problem, so we're back to horsedrawn armies living off the land as they move. It's a lot like Dark Ages tribal/raiding warfare, or the Border Reivers of England and Scotland really, isn't it?



v_lazy_dragon	Jan 7 2012, 08:38 PM Post #11
Enforcer Posts: 7,569 Group: Admins Member #3 Joined: Jul 24, 2008	mattblackgod Jan 7 2012, 02:40 PM I tend to think the same way, which is why I look at Darkage Europe for inspiration. I tend to think of a army as 50 men in my setting. Even the city states of Nu Sodom and Liberty City (the two largest settlements in my world) can only raise armies of 150 to 250 warriors tops. They can draw militias of 300 to 500 bodies. They tend to be low quality conscripts and equipped rather poorly. They only get used in times of dire emergency. Many small settlements will only have 2 or 3 warriors and can draw militias of 5 or 10 bodies. They have a higher percentage of milita as those in the wastes have more combat experience or they wouldn't be alive. And the same for me. I tend to look upon it that in a time of crisis all able bodied people will fight to defend to themselves; but this is only as a last resort. I imagine a few of the younger men will probably form a more generalised militia - definitely not 'full time warriors', but they may have access to weapons and some experiance/training using them. Dedicated soldiers are few and far between - but those that are will be true hard case lords of war, as they would probably have to train/be being 'soldiers' all the time to justify the fact that they aren't contributing anything to the rest of the settlement.



mattblackgod	Jan 8 2012, 12:10 AM Post #12
Big boss warlord dude! Posts: 15,702 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Jul 22, 2008	Good point Xander. But in my setting the Professional Soliders will be busy guarding the settlements and fighting off mutants and other nasties. It would be a near daily occurrence.



v_lazy_dragon	Jan 8 2012, 12:28 PM Post #13
Enforcer Posts: 7,569 Group: Admins Member #3 Joined: Jul 24, 2008	In which case, they'd still end up as hardcases - simply through shear experiance!



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