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Nephilim
Topic Started: Jul 26 2010, 03:44 PM (1,561 Views)
Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]
Well what a wonderful find! I had no idea you folks were here until I stumbled upon your extensive and rather pleasing selection of war bands. I have to be honest my heart skipped a beat when I realized all you folks seemed to drive at was post-apocalyptic settings. How wonderful!

So then, my name is Erin Truitt. I have an extensive gaming background in nearly all imaginable directions and have most recently taken to writing my own games. As of 2008 I did a complete second edition of Mordhiem for a gaming group I played with. After this lengthy and completely fulfilling project I came to realize that the year spent working on this rather large and humbling project was perhaps the best year of my life.

Though fun I have come to understand the faults of this massive and enjoyable game system in my study of it. Taking other game systems and studying them as well I have finally come to the only conclusion I could, I must write my own. That said there’s a number of hurtles that must be passed in each of the stages of life a game such as this will go through.

One of the many stages of sorting out my work is having people who enjoy the setting (it would seem you folks love this setting ;) ) take part in it and give feedback.

I was wondering if it would be acceptable from the standpoint of YOU the reader (and the admin staff of course) for me to place some portions of work on this website for public review. You would be free to both read and criticize to your heart’s content.

My father told me a real friend will tell you the truth, even if it’s not what you’d like to hear. I am hopeing the common sense of anonymity will free you readers, posters, and bloggers to make these kinds of comments, those which are both honest and critical.

Thankyou E
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Schrodinger's Cat
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Kitty Kat
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Well, I suppose we can.... ^o)


Go for it! Welcome aboard. ^_^
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v_lazy_dragon
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Enforcer
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Welcome to the forum Erin, I'll confer with the Admins but I can't see any problem with it!
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dogmrian
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wastleland bard
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you have my vote of confidence if it is needed :pipboy:

write away

but a small reminder post apocalypse has a lot of areas and you might not be able to cover them all in one ruleset
Examples: the far future gone sour,present day zombie rush, 1980 post nuclear fallout, back to black powder weapons, back to just melee weapons and bows and arrows. some people have mutants others have different races, some people have psykers and so on and so forth.

not trying to be a wet blanket just pointing out that each person has their own favorite part of the large wasteland that is post apocalypse
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Mr. Clean
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Wasteland Legend/Cat Skinner/Bad Speller/Super Nice Guy B^)
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Welcome!
I'd love to see your work!

Brian
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Mal
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Road Warrior
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A word of advice... when writing a rules set, keep it simple... well that rule works for just about everything, but you get the idea...

Yes Post Apoc is insanely huge, and noone can hope to cover everything, but if your rules are reasonable generic and simple, then adapting them for a theme is really easy...

Take a page from the GW book (yipes I can't believe I just said that!), their core ruleset is exactly the same for ancients (well its changed for 2.0), fantasy and 40k... its even the same set used to write gorkamorka, necromunda, mordhiem, etc etc etc you get the idea...

the core rules haven't changed in about 2 decades, there has been a lot of extras added to them which makes some aspect very complicated, but the defining aspect of armies, themes, forces, etc is actually done in the codex.

Im not saying you should write a codex for each theme, mabey a small suppliment, but with a simple and generic core ruleset (which is all you need) its easy to adapt... and it'll save you a lot of work trying to make everything fit and work together.

Ohh and welcome :p
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Rad Blight
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Wasteland Warrior
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Hello.
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Hollander
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Wasteland Warrior
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:coffee: Welcome, :hi:
I think there is about 1000 years of gaming experience in this forum and it's all focused on life after the ... you name it ..
This bunch will probably have gamed it. :coffee:

About being honest even when it hurts.

I'm Dutch. The Dutch have a reputation to be direct, blunt and to the point without being emotional about it. So bring on the rules :read: and we'll see what happens.. :ruleslawyer: .

:cheers:

YOU asked for it.. :tease:
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Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]
An excellent response, it would seem that the host of you are going to be better at this then I could have ever dreamed!! Thank you for your unabashed responses, I hope to see these opinions put to good use in the weeks to come.

Let’s be honest, if I want to make a product that has value and merit all of itself I can’t possibly rely on existing themes. So then let’s take a step back from your lists and suggestions. Rather than attempting to match or emulate those mighty titans of the aftermath such as Gamma World, let us instead head in our own direction.

Charging forward into melee my mercenary landed pummeling blows on the buckler of a Marienberger. Blow after blow I couldn’t seem to penetrate his superior weapon skill. To his rear came my Halfling cook, pots and pans swinging wildly I, in my early ignorance of the game, naturally assumed a pan to back of his skull would surely break this dead-locked melee. Unfortunately due to the rules of the game the Marienburger was allowed to simply swivel in place, dispatch my sneaky rear assault and then return to his combat with my mercenary. Needless to say this is but a single taste of a completely unfulfilling feast which was Mordhiem.

Standing at the forefront of the battle my great warlord “Fleshfeast”, bellowed to his subjects crying for blood. Much to my shagrin I again found my choice of action, though intuitive to an actual battle, completely wrong. My grand warlord stationed amongst a clutch of scavvy watched as two of my melee scouts fell fast against a massive and fearsome pit fighter. As a result of my skirmishers falling so quickly in combat I was forced to make a leadership test, which I failed, and retreated from the battle only minutes after setting up the game board. Should I be given no control over my warlord at least? Is it realistic to retreat from combat after losing mere pawns in a greater plan? I feel that my filthy and wicked scavvy lord would have seen these men gored and wasted as an acceptable loss and perhaps, given his nature, bellowed in laughter at their passing.

On and on we could go with examples of the GAME defining tactics; counter-intuitive methods of fighting battles forced by rules systems that stifle and control the method of play.

Of course rules have their place on the battlefield, without range guns would seem far less realistic. Without a weapon skill how would one express the great talents of a fighter?

What I bring to the table is this, simple intuitive control of combat. If a man is shot he should reflect this wound in his actions. If I fire my last bullet (one should think they’d be a lot harder to come by) then I should ready my tire-iron for melee. And lastly should I make the decision to fight or flee then this decision should be based on the truth of battle, how many of my men’s lives is victory worth?

As we explore the story and rules of my world I would ask you, at every turn, to use your imaginations and ask “Why?”.

I will post again tomorrow July 27th.
Thankyou E
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Mr. Clean
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Wasteland Legend/Cat Skinner/Bad Speller/Super Nice Guy B^)
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But as Mal said "keep it simple" thats the hard part.

Brian
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mattblackgod
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Big boss warlord dude!
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Welcome to the Wastelands.

I am happy for you to post up your development stuff and plans. Plus I am sure someone on here will happily playtest for you.

As mentioned by others on here, try to keep it simple.

As you are playing post apoc I find it helps to keep in mind that often the fighters are desperate. They need that bottle of clean water, mag of ammo or what ever they are fighting for (often their lives). It doesnt matter what background or setting, but many will have spent their entire lives fighting and it will take a fair bit to rattle them. Like warrior cultures of old many wastelanders will have developed a philosophical view point to help them deal with death (and fear). Many will go down fighting rather than be captured (slow torturous deaths may follow) or die from festering wounds.

I would limit moral testing to losing leaders or taking serious casualties (say 50% or more) in one turn.

As for game design, aim it at modern/ultra modern. Then add elements of Primitive stuff (bows, black powder weapons). Then add elements of Sci-Fi such as power armour and energy weapon if you want. That covers most of the gaming genre and allows players to pick and choose what they want or how technological then want to play. I think perhaps aiming at a mix of Mad Max and Fallout would make a good starting point.
Edited by mattblackgod, Jul 27 2010, 07:54 AM.
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Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]
This is a selection of one possible timeline. A total of three timelines have been written taking place during different portions of history, this is, by and large my favorite amongst them. As always the most useful opinion would be the honest one, so please, show no restraint in your desire to share your thoughts.

1775- James Watt patents the first steam engine. In the following years the technology is quickly adopted for use in textiles, ironworks and a host of other applications.

1783- High in the mountains of Africa just between Rwanda and the Congo English explorers discover the first of the tree’s of life. Explorer James Knotting spends the next four years of his life in study of the great tree.

1787- Long overdue from his expedition to Africa James Knotting returns to England to share his discoveries with the Royal Naturalists Society. Shortly after Knottings presentation he disappears from the public eye for nearly a decade.

1797- Under the direction of James Knotting an expedition is lead back into the African wild to re-discover the tree of life. Some of the best and brightest minds in the world attend this expedition.

1800- The Vatican launches a crusade to destroy the tree of life, an abomination in the eyes of god. The expeditionary forces get wind of the trees destruction only days after returning home.

1805- Scientist and Naturalist Albert Huron uses a portion of the tree of life as fuel. The fires created with the body of the tree of life burn like the sun and seem to have no limit to them; the small sample Albert uses lasts for days before burning itself out.

1807- The first underground school of magic is formed in the underbelly of London “College Nimus Vita”. Despite attempts by both church and state to stifle the “cult” the school thrives and knowledge of magic disseminates across the globe.

1811- Albert Huron patents “Huron Steel” a metal made from forges using the tree of life as fuel. Using the original notes of the now exiled James Knotting, Albert Huron is able identify and “harvest” trees of life from across the globe. At the behest of the English navy Huron develops the “Huron engine” a steam engine with nearly limitless energy.

1822- Governments across the globe scramble to emulate or purchase the “Huron Engine” for themselves. London and many nearby townships enjoy the privilege of modern convenience.

1863- Magic is accepted as a form of science, the college of magic is moved into the public eye. The conglomeration of science and the science of magic have staggering effects on the mankind, innovation moves faster than man can adapt.

1880- Medical innovations using magic as its primer begin to win the war against death. Man wields god-like power, like a child with a gun. A steam and magic powered device is grafted to human flesh giving a man back a lost hand.

1892- A single tree of life, eldest amongst its kind, endows its soul to the beasts of the wood. The results of the legacy are the “Animus Bellum”, massive intelligent beasts that speak as men. These intelligent beasts stem mans wanton plunder of the remaining trees of life.

1914- Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria, heir to the Austria-Hungary throne is assassinated. The Archdukes assassination at the hands of a Yugoslav nationalist result in the Habsburg ultimatum against the Kingdom of Serbia. Several alliances formed over the prior decade are invoked, nearly every major power in the world becomes involved in what comes to be known as the World War.

1916- Even with technological and magical innovations the trench’s of the war become ripe with the dead and dieing, lasting longer than anyone predicted the Americans fear the war could drag on for many years and begin looking for solutions to end the war more abruptly.

1917- America secretly deploys the Prometheus plague into German trenches. The magic-born disease devours both mind and body, unable to tell friend from foe the weapon strikes back at its master; transforming a 5 mile stretch of trench works into a mass grave.

1918- The World War ends as all sides reel from the uncontrollable spread of Prometheus across the globe. Governments attempt every possible method of cure or quarantine but the Plague cannot be slowed or stopped. Only those with a natural immunity are spared the ravages of the disease and of those few are scarred by horrid mutation.

1924- Mankind is reduced from nearly 1 billion to less than a million souls worldwide. In this great vacuum of power the strongest become warlords and the weakest seek the safety of civilization.

As always remember that the possibilities given here are endless. Using the background above gives me free reign to play in any direction I like. Literally anything could be fabricated using this background. Literally any form of technology, magic or mutation could be conjured up using this background and so much of my work currently involves the theme you see here.

©2010 Erin Truitt. All rights reserved.
Thanks E
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dogmrian
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wastleland bard
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i am intrigued by the timeline

please write more as soon as it is ready :)
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Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]
Well then, skipped a day of posting their but I had some of my supporters (friends) just randomly pile into their vehicle and arrive at my house. Although my wife and I are grateful for the friends, “terrain” cleanup today is going to take an hour >< . It’s always interesting to see what becomes terrain when it turns into play-testing time. Anywho, after grand and lengthy play-test I thought I’d try to surmise my game mechanics in a few words and perhaps give some insight to the timeline posted above.

So then for those of you that have made the journey and read the timeline above I should stress that this is a condensed and informal version. I simply cannot imagine anyone wanting to sit and read three pages of text all at once on a forum. As I like to call it the “wall of text” was left aside and a brief synopsis was used instead. That said I feel this timeline doesn’t really do justice the whole story so if anyone would like a copy please PM me and I’ll have something sent to you shortly. What it does do is give you a basic concept of the timeline were dealing with and the larger concepts; magic, mutation, steampunk.

Now with that out of the way let’s try another brief synopsis, this time focusing on game-play.

• In its entirety this game revolves around the quasi-rpg build, utilizing levels, territory control, character design and small groups of warriors (1-10+).

• Combat revolves around D-6, these D-6 are used at the character level in “dice-pools”. For instance the character attribute “Brawn: 6” would represent 6D6 (a very strong fellow).

• Individual skirmish choices are supplemented by a large selection of cards. These cards aid the unique combat system in representing a more realistic flow of battle.

• Unlike the normal restrictive miniatures combat systems and in my opinion far superior to any other skirmish system, actions are all resolved as a collective. Players still take turns processing actions but rather than all actions taking place in a single turn players resolve their actions one at a time determined by initiative.

• Due to the unique tracking system used players are freed of the constraints of many skirmish/rpg miniatures settings which force them to have perhaps one or two heroes and a horde of peons. Instead each miniature is unique unto itself and tracks its own statistics, special abilities and equipment.

• In most trial runs games including as many as four players can be resolved in an hour or less. Larger games such as eight players can last up to two hours or more (yesterday a 6 player game lasted roughly an hour and a half).
As always thank you for reading and don’t be bashful with the input.

Thanks E
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Hollander
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Wasteland Warrior
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Unlike the normal restrictive miniatures combat systems and in my opinion far superior to any other skirmish system, actions are all resolved as a collective. Players still take turns processing actions but rather than all actions taking place in a single turn players resolve their actions one at a time determined by initiative.

• Due to the unique tracking system used players are freed of the constraints of many skirmish/rpg miniatures settings which force them to have perhaps one or two heroes and a horde of peons. Instead each miniature is unique unto itself and tracks its own statistics, special abilities and equipment.



:coffee: so far your post reminds me of the advertising of several other games... Necromunda, The last crusade war/card game, the venerable quest game form avalon hill, Ambush alley miniature rules and the reaction system from two hour wargames keep popping up in my coffee soaked brain...

So cut the marketing crap.. give us the rules to review.. or better : explain the basic mechanics in 100 words. If you can't do that it's probably too complicated. :assflame:
Edited by Hollander, Jul 29 2010, 09:22 PM.
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Lofwyr
Mutant
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Hmm. Completely describe a set of rules that required a year’s worth of play-test and hard word to come up with, in less than 100 words. Well then, you know it’s only my fifth post and normally I don’t move this fast but if you insist. :frustry:

Character card has stats on it, character card is filled in by you; dependent upon choices made while creating your character.

Character card has tokens on it…move an inch; discard a token…shoot gun; discard token…etc etc

Taking damage reflects directly on the performance of your characters. Take a single damage and rather than getting all your tokens back during the recovery phase, you are short one.

Fill in the blanks as you see fit for most basic aspects of game play such as shooting (measure/ roll).

For more interesting aspects of game play we use combat cards. Say a sniper gets of a very nice shot against you, an instant save would be spending tokens on the card “evade” instantly dodging the attack. After the card is used, it and the tokens used to pay for it are placed to the side. Combat cards have a single token removed during the recovery phase of each turn until they are empty at which point the card is returned to your hand.

Rather than resolve one side then the other each model has the chance to act once at his/her initiative value. This action could be to move 7 inches or fire a weapon once. As with everything ANY action will cost action points.

It’s relatively easy to manage a ten on ten game using these rules with combat cards and tokens flying about as the battle evolves.

It’s 312 words, but then I’ve always been a bit verbose. Hopefully that’s not too complicated. Thiers a bit more to it of course but that’s the basics.
Thanks E
Edited by Lofwyr, Jul 30 2010, 02:35 AM.
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Mal
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Road Warrior
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Ok, i've seen similar systems used, and whilst they work well enough... its just not for me.

I tend to fill every avaliable ince of table space with terrain, so leaving a large enough area to run a large game (say with 60+ minis, thats about as big as it gets without zeds), well i'd need to buy another table just for the cards, and then there is remembering which token to sort and when... interesting idea, but a couple of drawbacks that i'd rather avoid.
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Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]


The very point of this rules set is to emulate a more personal and “character” like style of play; freeing players from the normal constraints of “standard” battles and allowing them a “sandbox” effect. This gives the player the opportunity to design adventures, campaigns, or a massive zombie purge without having to write new rules or modify existing game-play. If there is anything I have learned it is that players will bend or break rules in the name of fun, something I completely endorse.

Space used; there was a similar discussion during early play-test in which several of us realized battles almost never involved using the outer edge of the table except for deployment. Most often densely packed terrain left little chance for a snipers L.O.S. or a grand and wasteful flanking move. I can’t recall how many times my dice, measurement tape, beverage and roster sheets all sat in my deployment area.

In a war-game such a large space serves well both artillery and sniper fire but in a skirmish game a more accurate size battle would be held in a space of 31.2 inches, or 3 feet. Most four foot tables perfectly accommodated our cards and dice at this point. That said I completely understand the appeal of the winding pathways of four foot table. Densely packed with terrain this can make for a terrific game, if not a bit of a march before any actual game gets to take place.

To the point of 60 models or so, that doesn’t happen often unless a great many players are packed around a single table. Please try to stay in perspective, understand that this game involves a few heroic models rather than a sea of meaningless pawns.

Thanks E
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Mal
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Road Warrior
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Sorry mate.. but 'perspective'? Isn't it my own perspective to how I play my own games?

Besides I tend to play solo and have a gaming table out 24/7 so it if takes a month to finish a game... so be it. I like larger games, even with skirmish rules, there is more oppertunity for things to go horribly wrong.

You may base your rules on a few heroic minis... but that doesn't mean everyone else will, which is why I recommended keeping the core rules as generic as possible.
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Lofwyr
Mutant
[ * ]
I would strongly recommend war-machine or 40k rules. Or perhaps one of the more common rule sets with your own personal twist on them. This however is a thread started to discuss and get feedback on a specific set of rules used for a specific product, not a generic set of rules. These rules are written for a character based game play style, not a larger conflict. The primary goal of posting game material here is to get feedback on its ability to complete its given task, small character heavy engagements while fitting into its own version of post-apocalypse/steampunk style.

Thank-you for your comments but I feel they are somewhat out of place, I would suggest beginning a new thread based on general rules discussion.

Thanks E
Edited by Lofwyr, Jul 30 2010, 03:28 PM.
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