| The BEST Weapons?; Stab...Blast...Slice...BOOM! | |
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| Topic Started: Nov 6 2009, 06:01 PM (278 Views) | |
| freebooter | Nov 8 2009, 07:50 AM Post #21 |
Mercenary
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I've always had a soft spot for the F88 Austeyr. It is quite a futuristic weapon accurate out to over 500m. I always thought that the .556 was underpowered, that was until we went on a roo shoot with them. Blew a medium sized roo pretty much clean in half. Would definitely sting a human. Looks pretty funky with the M202 attachment too. |
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A learning experience is one of those things that says; 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - Douglas Adams | |
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| mattblackgod | Nov 8 2009, 11:00 AM Post #22 |
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The amount of old squaddies I know who speak about the SLR in the same tones. Makes me want one. I knew a guy who was on a weapons assessment course/study. Basically he got to fire all sorts of weapons testing them for range, penetration, rate of fire, reliability, killing range ect ect. Lucky git, 6 months of shooting every single side arm out there. Out of all of them he would go for the old SLR every time. Some of the findings where: The SLR could penetrate 9 dense clay house bricks in line, length ways. No other weapon could to that apart from the old Lee Enfield .303 (now 7.62 NATO). Both weapons had a effective killing range of up to 2 miles and they were accurate and hard wearing (for those who dont know the British SLR was a FN FAL with a heavy bolt/slower firing, different spring, longer and heavier barrel). 9mm SMG's and pistols were rated as poo as they couldn't penetrate a wet towel on a line at 20 yards. He cursed the Sterling SMG, which is a cool looking weapon but one of the worst of the SMGs. .45 APC is a better combat pistol for dropping folks, .357 and .44 magnum weapons came out tops too but where too bulky and heavy for certain troop types. Speaking of Stens, they where designed to be made in a shed with few tools. A barrel, a block with pin, a spring and a magazine - thats it! 5.56mm Nato weapons wear good but lacked the penetration of the 7.62 NATO or the stopping power. Out of the lot M16s and SA80's where the worst for reliability (they share the same internals). You need to religiously keep them clean. The Austeyr came out tops for ruggedness accuracy and design with the H&K G33 a close second. The AK47 was tough but not very accurate. Good stopping power but lacks long range penetration power. |
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Mattblackgod - Warlord in Charge and Wargames Anarchist! Bow Down to the Wasteland Warlords!!!! Mattblackgods world - A Post Apoc minis site Mutate & Survive! | |
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| DAWGIE | Nov 8 2009, 02:17 PM Post #23 |
Merc
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I am no expert but i agree with his assessment based upon my own observations. the old SLR is an excellent weapon. i became very familiar with it because it was the much loved rifle of the AUSSIEs in the RVN, and as the standard rifle of the BAOR. the AUSSIEs also had a "green painted" odd looking and much respected 9-mm SMG called either an OWEN or an AUSTEN. in the US ARMED FORCES, ye olde M-14, selective fire rifle (7.62-mm NATO) shares these characteristics. the fully auto SAW version of the M-14 also shares these characteristic, but, like the basic M-14, is too light to be accurate when fired full-auto at any but very close range or with a bipod, or a sturdy rest. i am pleased to see that the M-14 is making a comeback as a large magazine capacity, rugged, reliable, man stopping general issue sniper rifle. i loved basic M-14 until the ARMY took it away, gave me MATTY MATTEL, forced me to use the damned useless thing. the M-14 is basically an updated, re-chambered, modernized M-1 GARAND. OOOOOH and how could i fail to mention the BREN LMG chambered for 7.62-mm NATO! a truly awesome weapon that i personally rate right up there with the venerable BAR. i do believe this is the most accurate, magazine fed, LMG i ever got to shoot. DAWGIE |
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| Legend And Fiend | Nov 8 2009, 02:22 PM Post #24 |
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Raider
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 LAF |
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| v_lazy_dragon | Nov 8 2009, 02:34 PM Post #25 |
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I think that was most people's assessment of the Bren. IIRC the Indiansare still using them, and the Brits & South Africans used them all the way up to the 90's. The only real problem is that the 30 round mag was the equivalent of most otehr nations assault rifles, so it was a bit lacking in terms of supressing fire. |
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-Xander "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones" Einstein. Check out my modern wargaming website: Black-Ops-Command | |
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| v_lazy_dragon | Nov 8 2009, 02:40 PM Post #26 |
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Enforcer
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Dad was with the Light Infantry in the 70's, and he dearly loved the SLR. (About right on the weapons specs Danny - although the slower firing was because we removed the full auto selector on the general issue pieces. Both the UK & Aussie SAS were 'allowed' full auto versions, which they lovingly termed the 'Bitch' due to the kick it generated) Dad never handled a Stirling, but has seen a demonstation - the biggest problem with it was the muzzle kick. IIRC of the 30 round mag only about 5 were even vaguely on target, with the rest disappearing over the top. The demonstrating Sgt reconed it was really only good for shooting guys at the top of stirawys or for use against low flying aircraft) Dad was also very fond of the GPMG (FN MAG to the rest of the world) |
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-Xander "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones" Einstein. Check out my modern wargaming website: Black-Ops-Command | |
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| mattblackgod | Nov 8 2009, 03:27 PM Post #27 |
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Yeah I got play with one when I was in the Army Cadets (at the tender age of 13). Only fired a couple of bursts   . Surprisingly it pulled forwards rather than kicking back. As for the SLR I heard from a good friend who was in the Paras in the Falklands war with that he loved it, although quite a few of them brought back captured Argentinian FN FAL (standard full auto spec version of the SLR) weapons. I have seen one of these with the Aussie SAS in Nam with a cut down barrel, removed stock, a modified Bren mag (yes it fits, just needs a stronger spring), a ported gas valve and lightened bolt. According to the user it could cut a man in half! I have also seen a version with a 4x scope and bipod fitted. Doesn't Jamaica still use British Spec SLRs? |
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Mattblackgod - Warlord in Charge and Wargames Anarchist! Bow Down to the Wasteland Warlords!!!! Mattblackgods world - A Post Apoc minis site Mutate & Survive! | |
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| freebooter | Nov 8 2009, 09:29 PM Post #28 |
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Mercenary
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Heh... Now the SLR was a real weapon. I didn't suggest it because generally people don't like semi auto rifles. They're either old school bolt action fans, or they want >900 rpm. Its the weapon I normally use on Roo culls or dear hunts. Powerful and very accurate. But my favourite feature, which my old man filled me in on from his time in the Artillery. They were originally designed to be automatic squad weapons, but it was found that the barrels became too hot for this to be liable. So the safety selector was modified so that there was a block on switching the weapon to auto. This could all be fixed with a match  Strip the weapon, place said match stick between safety switch and the firing selector mechanism... Reassemble, and wehey 
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A learning experience is one of those things that says; 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - Douglas Adams | |
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| mattblackgod | Nov 8 2009, 09:36 PM Post #29 |
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I heard that it was a cost issue for the Brit Army. The high command didnt want squaddies blazing away using up expensive ammunition. They also had the heavier and longer barrel as the Brit Army also wanted accurate fire (damned accountants counting bullets to kill ratios!) and better range. Accountants - the curse of the British Forces, National Health Service and Engineering. I bet the older guys in the Brit Army miss the long range, penetration and stopping power of the old SLR in firefights in Afghanistan. |
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Mattblackgod - Warlord in Charge and Wargames Anarchist! Bow Down to the Wasteland Warlords!!!! Mattblackgods world - A Post Apoc minis site Mutate & Survive! | |
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| v_lazy_dragon | Nov 8 2009, 09:52 PM Post #30 |
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I know the SAS were still using them in the 1st Gulf War, and given that the US Army has re-issued lots of M14s/M21s for snipers; there may be more inuse than we'd expect... |
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-Xander "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones" Einstein. Check out my modern wargaming website: Black-Ops-Command | |
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| freebooter | Nov 8 2009, 09:52 PM Post #31 |
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Mercenary
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I don't think it was so much a cost thing, or at least not in Australia. Because they then developed the SAR, Squad Automatic Rifle, which had a heavier barrel, 30 rd magazine and a bipod that folded into the stock. It replaced the Bren as the Squad Automatic Rifle... The Bren was then reintroduced and used alongside the SAR until the introduction of the F89 Minimi. A bunch of my mates just got back from Afghanistan, some pretty incredible stories... But they say most of the firefights happened at under 50 meters. The SLR would have been way too unwieldy in those circumstances... |
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A learning experience is one of those things that says; 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - Douglas Adams | |
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| Legend And Fiend | Nov 8 2009, 10:31 PM Post #32 |
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Raider
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Okay how about PSI Blast, Lasers, Plasma Zappers? Mutant Death Darts shot from forearm tension?  Poison Spit from certain types of Undead?  Razor Sharp Claws?  LAF |
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| freebooter | Nov 8 2009, 10:37 PM Post #33 |
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Mercenary
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Ha... My sci-fi weapon preference has always been quite low tech. Check out the new Battlestar Galactica to see what I mean. |
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A learning experience is one of those things that says; 'You know that thing you just did? Don't do that.' - Douglas Adams | |
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| Legend And Fiend | Nov 8 2009, 10:48 PM Post #34 |
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Raider
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Step it up a bit young son...step it up.  LAF |
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| DAWGIE | Nov 8 2009, 11:04 PM Post #35 |
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Merc
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I understand the differences in terrain between the RVN and AFGHANISTAN. most of my firefights in the RVN were at 25-50 meters, but, hell, the terrain, even in the "open", for the most parts was _dense_ and sometimes very darkly lit (in the brightest broad daylight there is perpetual gloom in the jungle). soldiers and tangoes must be holding fire till they see the whites of the enemies eyes in AFGHANISTAN, unless we are talking about "street fighting". my M14 was heavy, long, awkward at times, but it always went BANG! when i squeezed the trigger, which is more tan i can say for MATTY MATTEL! when we were re-issued MATTY MATTEL and denied M-14s, i got a M1917 WINCHESTER TRENCH GUN, a pump action 12 ga lovely that was accidentally designed so that as long as you held the trigger back and pumped the slide, it would rapidly fire. the M1917 REMINGTON did not have this wonderful "flaw". with a fully loaded magazine, i could put out _MORE_ projectiles, sized 00, 0, or No 4 shot than MATTY MATTEL or the PLAIN JANE M-14 firing one mag on full auto. i got so i could do rapid reloads, too, which were not as fast as ejecting a spent mag, then locking another into place and loading a round, but pretty damned fast! i am here today because of MR BROWNING's well designed, rugged, reliable M1911A1 pistol and M1917 trench gun. aside note: my first GI ammos for the trench gun were 12-ga brass cartridges, not cardboard or plastic ones. DAWGIE |
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| Legend And Fiend | Nov 9 2009, 03:12 PM Post #36 |
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Raider
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How fun was that shit Dawgie? Here you have this enraged little man looking to  your ass with a razor sharpe bamboo spear...and your gun don't fire... LAF |
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| mattblackgod | Nov 9 2009, 03:51 PM Post #37 |
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Mr Browning knew his stuff when designing shooters. I am afraid LAF that my Sci-Fi tastes are quite low tech too. At a push I would go for Guass weapons or maybe slow fire laser weapons. Of course anyone with half a brain knows that almost anything you find laying about can be reused as a weapon. Or redesigned to do something nasty to some else with a little bit of work. |
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Mattblackgod - Warlord in Charge and Wargames Anarchist! Bow Down to the Wasteland Warlords!!!! Mattblackgods world - A Post Apoc minis site Mutate & Survive! | |
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| v_lazy_dragon | Nov 9 2009, 04:12 PM Post #38 |
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Enforcer
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I'm also in the low tech sci-fi gang I'm afraif - M41 pulses rifles and all that... |
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-Xander "I know not what weapons WWIII will be fought with, but WW IV will be fought with sticks and stones" Einstein. Check out my modern wargaming website: Black-Ops-Command | |
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| DAWGIE | Nov 9 2009, 06:38 PM Post #39 |
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Merc
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LAF, i tend to be in the low tech SF weapon fan club, too. bullets, or flechettes, thrown by gunpowder or mini-rockets will always be included among the personal high tech weaponry of humans. i can also foresee gauss weapons as personal weapons and low tech, slow firing laser pistols, rifles, and carbines, eventually, but for a very very long time i see these as being dependent on bulky power packs, carried on either the belt or a backpack, available to the military only. man portable plasma guns and man portable fusion guns qith plasma/fusion travelling along the path of a laser bolt (plasers) are a very long way off; these will probably be too large, heavy, awkward and require a tremendous amount of power supplied by manpack power sources. who knows, maybe even" tesla guns" with the electrical bolt riding along the path of a laser beam will become available as police, para-military, and military personal weapons with thee ability to be used in a "lethal" or "less than lethal" stun mode. but before the "tesla gun" as a personal weapon, i think we will see "taser tech" honed to a fine edge, with the fired projectile itself delivering the 50,000 volt shock and not a powerpack integral to the gun itself. but chemical explosive propellants and lethal kinetic energy delivered by a projectile will always be available to "high tech" civilizations as great death dealers toted by common soldiers. DAWGIE |
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| DAWGIE | Nov 9 2009, 06:44 PM Post #40 |
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Merc
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LAF, where i was at, the enemy had rugged, reliable firearms like the AK 47 and the SKS to shoot with - both completely outclassed MATTY MATTEL, and both were shorter, lighter, easier to use/maintain in a jungle environment or to train a peasant to use than my much loved M14 rifle or the vaunted M1 rifle. DAWGIE |
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