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- ~Team Pushover~
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| ~Team Pushover~ | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 24 2009, 01:54 PM (103 Views) | |
| Bonkenhi | Jun 24 2009, 01:54 PM Post #1 |
Spamm1n M3mb3r
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About time, eh? Bow to my terrible team building skills. =P (?) indicates that I have serious doubts about the move/Pokemon/whatever else it's next to. XP Espeon, Timid Nature @Focus Sash (Ability: Synchronize) (EV Spread: 252 Sp Att, 252 Speed, 6 Sp Def) Moves: Psychic Grass Knot Signal Beam Attract (?) ~My lead, and one of my two favourite Pokemon <3 I tend not to start with the typical Stealth Rock, etc start ups. I start with something slightly more unpleasent. Attract. Since my Espeon's female, and most people have their Pokémon as male on Shoddy, this sly tactic tends to get them off guard from step one. With the EVs and IVs, Espeon gets a decent 350 Speed, which generally gets first turn over most Pokemon, except Scarfed ones. If in the event their lead manages an attack on Espeon, the Sash is there to keep it alive at least 2 turns, so they can suffer from Attract. =P Takes luck to work well.~ Shuckle (?), Calm Nature @Leftovers (Ability: Gluttony) (EV Spread: 252 HP, 252 Def, 6 Sp Def) Moves: Rest Sleep Talk Toxic Stealth Rock ~This one gets Stealth Rock up... and works to stall the opponent into death by poison. XP Not good, I know.~ Honchkrow, Adamant Nature @Scope Lens (Ability: Super Luck) (EV Spread: 252 HP (?), 252 Attack, 6 Speed) Moves: Drill Peck Night Slash Mirror Move (?) Psych Up (?) ~The opponent has raised their defence. Not good. The aim of Honchy was to be able to get me a second chance in the event they did end up taising their stats or something. A Crit Hit ignores defence/attack increases/decreases. Umbreon, Calm Nature @Leftovers (Ability: Synchronize) (EV Spread: 252 HP, 6 Def, 252 Sp Def) Moves: Assurance Curse Protect Wish ~Not my good old Toxi-Trapping Umbreon this time. </3 This one has it's Special Defence nice and high, and I have Curse for the Defence raising, and lastly Assurance for the damage dealing. Protect comes in handy for just stalling that little bit to get the benefit of Leftovers to avoiding the occasional 2 turn attack.~ Togekiss, Calm Nature @Leftovers (Ability: Serene Grace) (EV Spread: 252 HP, 6 Def, 252 Speed) Moves: Ancientpower Air Slash Endeavour Softboiled ~Yes, I like my Calm/Leftovers. D= Anyways, my plan for Togekiss is to whip out Ancientpower and hope for the best. If I'm lucky, I'll get my stats raised... with the speed increase, and once my Ancientpower PP is gone, Air Slash and get them flinching. Endeavour's for a last attack in the event Togekiss is going to kick the bucket) Sceptile, Hasty Nature @Choice Scarf (Ability: Overgrow) (EV Spread: 252 Attack, 6 Sp Def, 252 Speed) Moves: Leaf Blade Night Slash Thunderpunch X-Scissor ~Last one. Packing a nice 558 speed, it should outspeed most things, when the sweepers start crushing my team apart, this is probably the one I'd draw out as a last resort. As long as they haven't used Agility or were faster in the first place, I'll get a quick hit on them and hopefully end that sweep.~ ...And that my friends, is Team Pushover. |
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| TheOedipusRex | Jun 24 2009, 02:16 PM Post #2 |
1st Grand Champion of The Gym Leader Castle
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I just had to come back to rate this team because I promised you I would. I'll do it later though when I'n not packing. |
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| Overthrown | Jun 24 2009, 02:36 PM Post #3 |
Suicide Rocket
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It looks like a decent UU team. It'll never work in OU, sadly, just because. But I'm sure some OUs could run similar sets. Espeon is okay. Like you said, its unexpected, and this does normally knock people off-guard. Be careful though, a lot of leads in UU like to run Explosion or Sucker Punch. I personally use Electrode in my UU team, and he just Taunts and Thunderbolts until he's ready to Explode. So be wary of that. Your Stall shuckle is good. I have a stall Blissey with Toxic in my OU team on Shoddy, and she works wonders. Stalls are amazing if used right. Plus, they annoy people to no end. Hochkrow is excellent to send in against a Curse Staller. Use Psych Up and copy their cursed attributes. Then its just a big stall war, wait for them to switch out while trying to KO. I'm sure Honchy is faster than anything that Curses. But this is just with what you have now. You could also give it Sucker Punch, which I believe it can learn, and make it a revenge-killer. Umbreon is alright, but its more meant for Baton passing, if you ask me. Wish is a good move, and you can pass on the heal with a Baton Pass to one of your partners. Maybe spread a little Toxic fun before switching out. Togekiss I've always seen as a Paraflincher type. This moveset seems intrigueing... but I would use Air Slash over Ancient Power, because of the typing boost. Sceptile has a nice strategy as a revenge-killer there. Always send it out as soon as you feel a sweep coming, and tear that fucker apart. If they send out something else, kill it too. |
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| TheOedipusRex | Jun 24 2009, 03:48 PM Post #4 |
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1st Grand Champion of The Gym Leader Castle
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The problem with your team is that it uses both OU pokemon and UU Pokemon. This means that although it may be really great for UU, it can only be used in OU. I would image that is why you consider your team to be so weak. I do not have much, if any, experience with UU tier so I can't help fix this team. However I can help you make an awesome team for OU if you would like me to. |
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| Bonkenhi | Jun 25 2009, 01:06 AM Post #5 |
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Spamm1n M3mb3r
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Hmm... I'd need to switch a few Pokemon out of the team. Sceptile, Honchkrow and Togekiss right? |
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| Endy | Jun 25 2009, 01:27 AM Post #6 |
uhhh
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If you want, I can provide my extremely retarded opinions on this. Espeon: It's not bad, but numerous fast sweepers can break the sash/kill it, with a little luck. Ambipom is the first that comes to mind. Shuckle: I LARB THESE FUCKERS (Its 2:30 AM forgive me). But yeah, I like the set, though it's a massive target for setup fodder. Umbreon: Switch the nature on it to Relaxed, put on payback in place of assurance, and strive for 0 IVs in speed. Since it already has base 130 special defense to work with, a special defensive nature isn't exactly needed, but a defense boosting one to boost walling potential. Honchkrow: Uhhh...I honestly can't think of anything for this atm, will edit later. Togekiss: Once again, nature switch to Bold. I love the softboiled idea (I might steal it for mine =P). If you want to though, dual Wish support seems viable on this team at first glance. So that could be switched out for softboiled. Endeavor isn't bad either, though you could switch it out with Protect if your going with the wish idea. Sceptile: Even though it hardly matters towards scepy's survival, switch that thing to Jolly, or if you wanted to, Adamant for more power, and being able to revenge kill stuff better. Other than that, this seems like the most solid pokemon on your team, imo. Meh, it's 2:30, go fuck yeah doing this halfassed. Edited by Endy, Jun 25 2009, 01:32 AM.
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| Overthrown | Jun 25 2009, 04:35 AM Post #7 |
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Suicide Rocket
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Actually, Honchkrow is Limbo, meaning no one ever uses it, because it just seems so unusable. Sceptile is UU, I know from fact. Togekiss is actually your OU poke'mon. If you still want a set like that, I recomend Yanmega. It might run bug type, but it can pull that exact same set, with Roost over Softboiled. I play the UU tier much more than the OU tier because I like the variety of poke'mon better. If you're making a UU team, I'd be happy to help where I can. Edited by Overthrown, Jun 25 2009, 04:37 AM.
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| Bonkenhi | Jun 25 2009, 10:23 AM Post #8 |
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Spamm1n M3mb3r
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So Honchkrow is actually NU eh? =O Niceee. UU seems more fun to me. I now kinda figure why this team is such a pushover... when it comes to face OU teams.  Yanmega sounds okay to me... but is it really UU? =O It seems bloody powerful. ...oh right, it doesn't have Serene Grace. Togetic's an option too I think.
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| Overthrown | Jun 25 2009, 10:38 AM Post #9 |
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Suicide Rocket
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Togetic could be one. Smogon website has a list of all tiers, it says Yanmega is UU. You can whatever you'd like, so long as it works. That's the beauty of UU, you don't need the strongest, most God-like poke'mon to win. Another good choice is Azumarril, with its Power Boost ability. Its ATK, not base ATk, is doubled, so it gets about 400 ATK. |
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| Endy | Jun 25 2009, 12:05 PM Post #10 |
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uhhh
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And really, does it matter THAT much that everything has to be in one tier? Reallly, I used to use: Primeape, Gorebyss, Flygon, Tangrowth, Lucario, and Clefable in a team once, and it really wasn't that bad. Sometimes, I tend to think teams are better when you gather pokemon from all around, not just the same tier. |
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| Overthrown | Jun 25 2009, 12:18 PM Post #11 |
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Suicide Rocket
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We're talking about using the team over Shoddy here. Even with one OU poke'mon, you're forced into the OU tier on the Smogon server. |
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| Endy | Jun 25 2009, 01:46 PM Post #12 |
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uhhh
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So? I rather play OU tier with one OU pokemon, and the other 5 being pokes I actually like using, than using the same old 6 OUs in a team. |
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| TheOedipusRex | Jun 25 2009, 02:06 PM Post #13 |
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1st Grand Champion of The Gym Leader Castle
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You can throw any Pokemon into a team and have fun playing. No one is debating that. However, when doing a RMT the point is to make the team better in a competitive environment. If you don't care about doing well in a competitive environment then there is no reason to try and get a rate and fix. Since this is a RMT thread the team is presumed to be competitive. In a competitive environment having 1 OU Pokemon and 5 UU Pokemon means that your team must be used in OU. In order for a team to even be possibly competitive in OU the majority of, most likely all, must also be from the OU Tier. This is because OU Pokemon are fundamentally better than those of UU. If they weren't, then the tiers would mean nothing. It is because of this that it is appropriate for the UU pokemon to b replaced with suitable OU replacements. Furthermore I do not see how OU consists of
There are about 50 Pokemon in OU Tier. That is quite a lot. If my quick calculations are correct that is 11,441,304,000 6 member team possibilities (50 * 49 * 48 * 47 * 46 * 45). Almost 11 and 1/2 billion. |
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| Bonkenhi | Jun 25 2009, 04:31 PM Post #14 |
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Spamm1n M3mb3r
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Time for some number crunching. (Time to sharpen up on my rusty Statistics skills. =P) *I advise skipping this chunk of text* ______________________________________________________________ There may well be 1,144 million possibilities (A billion over in the UK is actually a million millions, you see. XP) but some Pokemon in that 50 see more usage than others. Some sets are unoriginal, bland, but do the trick better than others. Assuming the probability of a certain Pokemon appearing in a team is 6/50... (1 - 6/50)^5 = 0.5277. 1 = 0.4644 = 0.4723. After 5 battles, there's a "47% chance" you've seen the Pokemon once. That's close enough to 0.48 times. *which I'll use as the mean for what I'm about to do.* Now, calling the chance that Pokemon X, and saying that the Pokemon appears an average of 0.5 times per 5 battles, modeling this by the Poisson distribution (Because it's discrete data, and it occurs at a "constant rate", so I can do this) will find the probability the Pokemon will appear twice. (See http://www.ma.hw.ac.uk/~davids/tables/poisson/0-1.html for the table I'm using in case it's wrong or something.) Looking up 0.48 gives me this: 0.6188 = The chance it appears 0 (or less times) 0.9158 = The chance it appears 1 (or less times) 0.9871 = The chance it appears 2 (or less times) 0.9985 = The chance it appears 3 (or less times) 0.9999 = The chance it appears 4 (or less times) So taking off the chance of it appearing 1 or less times from 1 gives us this: 1 - 0.9158 = 8.42%. That 8.42% chance is the chance for one of the 50 Pokemon appearing in battle twice or more. Doing it for the rest... that should work out like this: 1 - 0.0842^50 = 0.0123 (Or 1.23% chance) So by the time you've had 5 battles, you're bound to have run into the same Pokemon more than once. =P It's not as wide as it sounds, there may well be different combinations but you'll end up running into the same Pokemon eventually. That 1.23% chance was taking into account the Null Hypothesis. In truth, there's actually different chances Pokemon will be in the team... and that 1.23% chance should in truth be far smaller. Pokemon like Blissey, Garchomp (wait, that actually might be uber now, lolwut.) Ninjask, Gengar, shitrmory, you name it, they're bound to be there 2+ times. ______________________________________________________________ Anyways, the point is, I got sick of seeing the same lack of creativity over and over. There was a system back in the older PP days that I liked, the point system. Best. Idea. Ever. It allowed a bit of cross using of tiers to have the chance to use favourite Pokemon. If that was brought back, it'd be brilliant. <3 Of course, the members now might wish to debate the actual values because the past values may not be that fair... but I think these lists I have might just help. I'll post them elsewhere in the competitive forum. Edited by Bonkenhi, Jun 26 2009, 01:06 AM.
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| Endy | Jun 25 2009, 05:20 PM Post #15 |
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uhhh
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I used to actually have an article on the points listing of pokes for this site, but I may have deleted it, *checks* Yep, deleted. And yes, I understand that RMTs are made for competitive battling, but I usually act like a retard at this stuff, since I never really my mind too 'locked' into this kind of thing. |
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