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| Tweet Topic Started: Oct 27 2015, 01:41 PM (1,026 Views) | |
| DehOtherGuy | Dec 5 2015, 06:15 PM Post #31 |
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You can make companions equip different stuff. If it's a weapon, you gotta give them ammo too. That said, Nick is stuck with his detective coat. As for New Vegas, as much as I love it (Probably in my top 5 favorite games ever) it is a bit overrated in many aspects. The narrative choices are numerous and interesting, but there are no real major effects on the game world. The biggest change is the slideshow you get all the way at the end, which is nice, but still rather easy to do, because, well, it's a slideshow. Obsidian seems to get a free pass in writing/gameplay like Bethesda does with bugs. There are numerous gameplay and story issues that people seem to ignore when Obsidian does it, but go apeshit if any other dev does it. Obsidian is still a gem in the industry, though. They have genuinely good writers, and are one of the few notable devs out there who still make in depth rpgs. However....Pillars of Eternity was a disappointment. It's got a lot of illusion of choice for an Obsidian game, a lot of gameplay aspects made me go, "Why?" and the plot was often painfully uninteresting. I do lament the lack of different roleplaying options in Fallout 4, but at the same time the game just has so much heart that I can't help but appreciate it. I don't think it's objectively better than Obsidian's work, but I think it gets a lot of undeserved shit. Edited by DehOtherGuy, Dec 5 2015, 06:17 PM.
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 6 2015, 04:39 AM Post #32 |
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Him being stuck with the Detective Coat is the main issue, and the fact that I have to give my ammo makes it worse when I can just dick out Cait and Strong with some garbage armour I found and let them go to town with their basic weapons or some Super Sledge I don't use. New Vegas gives you the option to literally fuck over everyone you meet at every turn. It lets you fuck over companions, enemies, allies, random old people, everyone who is in your way and on your side. The 'world' itself can literally be reduced to you and nothing else because you've single handedly fucked over every faction there is for no reason other than you wanted to. And the endings reflect that, as the world you're apart of is now very fucked. What's the worse you can do in Fallout 4? Join the side of someone who isn't very nice? Because none of these choices are flat out a Caesar, and at worst there is not option to kill and eat every major faction leader for the lulz. Also in Fallout New Vegas at least there WAS an option to take another route that was your own. It's insane to say "None of your choices effect the game world" When literally after you make the major choice of picking a side, you're shown a slideshow as to what your choices did and then the game ends. While in Fallout 4 you're forced to join a hand full of groups that are so shallow that they might as well had just been buttons you push. The idea with the slideshow is that your actions affected the narrative and those around you, moreso than anything. For most people, Obsidian included, this was a return to form since in the original Fallout's that's how the endings were handled and it had done a very good job of establishing a canon. Ultimately, it's why no one felt as if Fallout 3 had any actual concrete ending to it. Fallout 4 is a good game because it happens to be a good Fallout game. Is it game of the year material? In my heart of hearts, no. It's not as deep as Fallout New Vegas, it's not as well handled, it's not as interesting. The combat system is better and easier, but the game as a whole is easier. Tried playing the game on the highest difficulty and them throwing legendary weapons and armour at me didn't exactly make me feel like I was trying my hardest. I think Fallout gets it's rightful amount of shit honestly. It's like when people got upset about Skyrim, and others were like "It's deep and interesting!" While that's true it doesn't actually change the complaints thrown at it. Fallout 4 has it's problems, but most people skate over them because it's a good game. Think on Metacritic it's like an 8.5 and that seems fair enough. Also Fallout 4 has the weakest fucking plot out of Fallout 1, 2, 3, and New Vegas. Hands down. I stopped caring about my kid halfway through the game because there wasn't much of a reason to actually care. When you show me a villain, only to make him easily the most sympathetic and torn person in your entire game, who flat out tells you "Your son is ok." I find it hard to care at this point. When I finally got to the institute *SPOILERS* And it turns out your son is old, and has lived a life without you, and is the leader of the institute, I felt like that was the weakest twist I could have hoped for. Mainly because at that point all I've done is waste my time trying to find someone who isn't there, and there's no reason for it. While I'm on the point of weak as fuck writing. Why the fuck would Kellogg have to shoot whoever was holding Shaun? "We need a perfect DNA Match in case this fails." But then he shoots your spouse without question and your own kid lets you out and everyone says they expected you to either die or stay in Diamond City. Only to find out your bastard brat has cancer. I'm going to go on the record and say cancer is one of those things that you probably wouldn't want spread throughout your creations. But luckily for you one of your 'reserves' is dead, and the other one is likely to be dying soon too following your retarded strategy. I like how the Railroad, the faction I joined, gives you zero fucking wiggle room. It's like it's run by retards. "We have to save the synths, so do ALL the missions for father until the last one." My first thought was "Couldn't I just take over the institute, remove all men and women in power, and just free the synths systematically so I could use them to help the commonwealth how I see fit. Instead of having them kidnap people and replace them?" Mind you it is entirely possible to fuck over at least 4/5 of the people in power at the Institute, so that option is very possible. Unfortunately, you can't do anything too complex because it would require more voice acting for a protagonist who sounds like an asshole trying to play it waaaaay too fucking cool. |
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| DehOtherGuy | Dec 6 2015, 05:12 PM Post #33 |
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(Spoilers) Kellogg was repeatedly cited as a violent motherfucker. It's not too unlikely for such a person to slightly deviate from the orders he was given. The Institute still kept him because he was very effective despite being a thorn in their side at the same time. As for cancer, even healthy people are not immune. As for Fo4 having the worst plot, I couldn't disagree more. You're forgetting how idiotic Fo3 as a whole was, regarding both plot and setting. A town built inside a baseball stadium, with farms and a water purifier vs. a town built in a bomb crater, around an intact and possibly still dangerous atomic bomb. Losing a family member to an illness vs. losing a family member because he decided to sabotage his own water purifier for almost no good reason. There's a lot more, but I simply recommend looking up an article called, "The Blistering Stupidity of Fallout 3." Fo4's plot might be a lot of things, but it's not worse than Fo3's plot. NV: "You repeatedly helped a rival faction and intentionally screwed up a decade long espionage operation? That's cool." -Love, Caesar's Legion, the same guys who crucify people just for saying the wrong thing. I'm pointing out the above not because I think Fo4 does it better, but to show that plenty of games can do similar things that Fo4 does and not get shit for it. I actually kind of agree with the 8.5 score. I think Fallout 4 has a lot of major issues, and it's definitely not better written than NV or the classics, but at the same time, I don't think it's as bad as people make it out to be (I'm talking about the people who act like it's the worst written game ever, the ones who think it's modern Bioware level bad). Edited by DehOtherGuy, Dec 6 2015, 09:27 PM.
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 7 2015, 04:59 AM Post #34 |
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Killing off one of your few major resources that you desperately need is a pretty big fucking deviation from the main plan. It's not like he accidently let some random Joe Blow in Cryo-sleep wake up and get out of a tank. He literally killed one of two genetic matches that would have been required as a back-up, effectively reducing the chances of the scientific endeavour that they were hoping for (In this case making lifelike synths using a 'perfect' humans DNA) less likely to not fuck up. The problem with Fo3 Having a worse plot is that this IS Fallout 3. You've replaced son with father, and somehow removed ANY emotion behind it. In Fallout 3 you're a kid from the vault thrown into an uncaring world using the minimum skills you've got to find the one person who can make sense of it all. You can either let the world corrupt you, or overcome and find your father oly to find out he's trying to do what's best for everyone. The fuck do I get in Fallout 4? My kids a brat who I want dead when I find him, he's pretty much joined a cult, and the 'journey' is painful because no matter what happened to me in the wasteland I have to be an emotional wreck by the time I find my kid who I forgot I was suppose to be looking for. I had more fun killing off the Brotherhood of Steel, who fucking mind you have 6 members with their own personalities, SIX in a faction of thousands, maybe 6 have personalities and of those 6 maybe 4 have something to do with the plot. Meanwhile I have the option of getting a follower who's a member of the Brotherhood in 3 minus the hangup of the whole "He's a traitor" twist that added fuck all to the character that I got in Fallout 4. The entire point of NV and the point you're trying to make is that Caesar is made to be THE BAD GUY. There is NEVER any point to him except THAT HE IS EVIL. All of your companions make it painfully obvious he's not to be trusted and that he is EVIL. Fallout 4 didn't do that. Instead they made it seem like what was happening was for the greater good. There is no 'true evil' path in Fallout 4. Just a bunch of clashing ideals. Which is something I don't think you either understood or missed entirely. It's like every faction has been boiled down to the NCR, where they do some things you might not like but they have their reasons for it. Meanwhile you're like "Plenty of Games can do things similar to Fo4 and not get shit for it" While entirely missing the point that those two things are not the same. At all. Remotely. Not even close. Which is why New Vegas had a MORALITY SYSTEM. Because helping the sexist slaver, who wanted to raze the entire city of New Vegas while crucifying his people was a BAD THING. I'm putting words in caps because you seem to be missing the point of what made New Vegas decent, and what's making Fallout 4 boring and not as good as any of it's previous games. If I had to compare it to being bad it's right in the road with Fallout 2 and 3. Suffers from the same writing as 3, and has alot of the jerky problems that 2 had. |
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| DehOtherGuy | Dec 7 2015, 05:32 AM Post #35 |
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I beg to differ regarding Caesar's and his Legion's portrayal. Josh Sawyer, the lead behind NV, talked about intending to make the legion more than just evil assholes. His argument was that the Legion, despite being sexist and cruel, spread stability in the areas they ruled. Even the devs admitted that they weren't too satisfied with the Legion's portrayal, and stated that if given the chance, they'd have changed some things. So no, the Legion was NOT intended to be just THE BAD GUYS. Seeing their portrayal, and many players' impressions of them (Including mine, and quite apparently yours) in the game, Obsidian screwed up with the Legion, no matter how much people may say otherwise. Old World Blues tried SO hard to be funny, but only half of the comedy was legitimately decent (Muggy comes to mind), while the other half felt like Chris Avellone played too much Borderlands and Portal, and came up with what felt like a half-assed version of those two styles of humor combined. HAHA PENIS FINGERS, LET'S REPEAT THAT JOKE OVER AND OVER AGAIN DURING THE INTRO DIALOGUE BECAUSE IT'S SUCH A GOOD FUCKING JOKE AMIRITE? And let's not forget how Lonesome Road tried to make you feel guilty about something you had no control over, saying that you did some bad shit before the events of the game and telling you to feel bad. I suppose one could argue that the DLC was more about Ulysses than the player, but the fact remains that the writers tried to lay some amount of guilt on you over something they said you did. Ulysses himself was a very mixed bag in terms of writing. One one hand, some of his prose was amazing, and on the other hand it was very heavy handed and purple. Despite the shit it gets, Honest Hearts was, in my opinion, one of the higher points in all of NV's writing, mostly thanks to Joshua Graham and the Survivalist. In all seriousness, I really recommend reading the Fallout 3 article I mentioned. It really shines a light on how stupid Fallout 3 can often be (Though I did enjoy the game, and it had its shining moments). Fallout 4 may be a lot of things, but one thing that it absolutely isn't is worse written/dumber than Fallout 3 in general. And yes, I actually "get" why NV is good. I wouldn't regard it as highly if I didn't. It's not like I think Fo4 is overall better than the other titles in the series. But there are reasons why I think the game is still an enjoyable experience, even if it is flawed in many ways. . . . . Also, to answer your Steven Universe question: It's because the show addresses social justice issues, which tends to bring in the SJWs, even the really crazy ones...like the ones that doxx opponents and pull fire alarms to stop a meeting they don't agree with. But SJWs probably don't make up most of a fanbase as much as they're just really loud compared to much of the rest of the fanbase. Edited by DehOtherGuy, Dec 7 2015, 05:08 PM.
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 7 2015, 05:08 PM Post #36 |
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You can beg to differ all you want, the actuality is that when asked about the 'limited outcome' of Caesar's factions (IE: In most factions you get a good and evil outcome based on how you finished the mission and then based on your Karma) is that they are the same. He talked about it and thought about it when in preproduction during the time when there were meant to be Legion female members, and you were meant to have a legion companion. It was dropped, and ultimately what we have is what we have. Your entire point is "They wanted to do X" But didn't. That in no way has anything to do with what the final product was. From a consumer standpoint, it's hard to get anyone to care about what their intentions were. You either need to lay down or put down whatever you're drinking because what I said was.
Your entire point is. "THEY DIDN'T WANT TO." "THEY WANTED TO DO MORE." Which means what exactly? Three dogs die in the wind, how they got there matters how? It doesn't matter what they wanted, intended, or planned on. What matters if the final project. The fact that Fallout 4 LOOKS like it was aiming to do something bigger, and ultimately feels meh is either the fault of the project being pushed (Which is possible considering how fast it was announced and released), or simply a series of big ideas dropped into a not so great clusterfuck. I'm not about to read through some idiots idea is when it's sent to me through another source. I know how bad Fallout 3 is. Literally every point I've brought up is ultimately neither debunked by you, or explained as anything other than "Yeah but..." Which makes me believe you're looking for something that ain't there. The entire point here is that from my perspective based on my knowledge from the previous Fallouts that I've played. Fallout 4 is the weakest. Mind you that is taking into account that as weak as Fallout 3 was, it came out with a DLC that ultimately fixed its biggest flaw which was its ass of an ending. But somehow your followers telling you to fuck off and letting you die, feels like less of a middle finger than you blow stuff up and then go and drink some lemonade talking about how shitty or good things turned out. Here's the thing about your Steven Universe point. Like you realize there are equally big shows out there that have an equally strong SJW bases and the ratio to crazy to normal isn't that big right? Adventure Time has the same if not more of the same issues being tackled and you won't find that level of crazy there. Legend of Korra had a massive position on Social Justice and you don't find that level of crazy laying around. I'm sitting in some group for my friends college online and I'm like "Greg is my favorite character." Some other dude agreed, and next thing you know there's a horde of retards throwing themselves at me talking about PEARLXROSE4EVAR. And it's not even an argument at that point. You can either deal with facts, opinions, or yourself. At which case alot of Steven Universe fans seem to be like those Bronies people use to make fun of back in the day. But instead of making fun of them like we use to, now they're allowed to just be loud and unchecked. Like how I imagine wildlife dramatically change when you remove the natural predator from the equation. |
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| DehOtherGuy | Dec 7 2015, 10:19 PM Post #37 |
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My whole point regarding this is that no, the Legion was not intended to be some sort of pointless evil force like you say it is. The devs intended for the Legion to be grayer than black, and they SCREWED UP. Your, "It doesn't matter what the intention was," comment applies to Obsidian as well. They TRIED to do something, and FAILED.
And just why not? A large part of our own opinions are influenced by those passed down by a line of others, whether we know it or not. This isn't much different. My point in recommending the article is to show just how much better 4's writing/logic is next to 3's.
Fallout 3's biggest flaw is not just the ending. It was simply the final blow in a series of painful whacks. If Fallout 3's plot was a set of cuts, the DLC simply adds a bit of soap and water to one cut. Fallout 3 is the most illogical game in the series (Maybe besides Tactics and BoS, I don't know enough about the stories of those). My point on Megaton still stands, and that's only one issue with the game's setting. Fallout 4 puts a bit more work into explaining its setting/plot than 3 did. In terms of logic and explanation, compared to 1,2, and NV, it's not quite there, but as a whole it's a leap forwards from 3's logic.
I'd rather have a generic but more logical ending over an illogical travesty of one. My points on Old World Blues and Lonesome Road still stand as well (Though I suppose the Courier backstory part of Lonesome Road could make for some interesting role-playing opportunities. And if that is the case, other RPGs that bring some backstory to what's supposed to be mainly a blank slate or custom character should be cut a bit more slack, at least so long as the backstory part is done passably). Look, feel free to reply to the above if you want, but it's becoming clear that neither of us are willing to budge when it comes to this whole Fallout thing, and I don't feel like keeping this going (Though...I might ironically have been the one to initiate this debate. If so, I take the blame and apologize for my hypocrisy. That said, right now I feel like doing other things instead). What do you say we just agree to disagree regarding Fallout at this point? However, regarding companions, and partly to answer one of your past questions...Nick's awesome because he's a great blend of snark, good/nice guy, and badass. In other words, he's a total fucking bro. Plus, he's a robot detective (one that's actually given a bit of explanation), though that might fall into the "badass" part. The devs and voice actor also nailed his whole noir detective vibe. I do like Cait as well, though. She has a pretty sad backstory that shows why she's the way she is, and I quite liked her personal quest. She's also p cute, which is a plus.
They do address social justice topics, yes. But neither of them made those topics as big a deal in their respective shows as Steven Universe did. Some of the major ways gems work are based around ideas relating to social justice topics (see: Gem fusion). It's no wonder then that the show seems to attract so many more SJWs. If I like cars, and I see a show that has a few bits with cool cars, and I also see Top Gear, I'm picking Top Gear. I love the show, but it's a fact that the show is a lot more prone to receiving SJWs than the other shows you mentioned.
Props for surviving that ordeal. Edited by DehOtherGuy, Dec 8 2015, 12:50 PM.
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 8 2015, 03:53 PM Post #38 |
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Ok you must be really hard of either comprehending or reading. One or the other, not sure which. They are, according to the game developers and the game itself. They being Caesar's Legion, in accordance to what the final product IS, they are EVIL. This is never been disproven, overturned, or countered. Neither by the games creators, nor yourself. Your point is they WANTED. They INTENDED. They TRIED. This all falls flat when they themselves gave up the efforts, dropped them, and settled for what the final product is. The devs themselves admitted, according to you and the sources cited from the development team. They WANTED a more gray area with Caesar's Legion but dropped it because it was becoming difficult to give them equal shares as they did with the NCR. So instead of two conflicting sides where it's Gray vs. Grey, you ended up with Gray vs. Evil. Did you just ask me why I'm not about to read through some idiots opinions on something based on the opinion of someone I don't care about, in regards to my opinion on something that ultimately doesn't matter? You feel as if Fallout 4's writing is better than 3's. Good for you. I don't, most people don't, and maybe if the stories weren't so similar and the writing not dumbed down so that fans could get their "Romance" Subplots that I don't recall anyone asking for, I'm sure most people would agree. Also I'm 100% sure you haven't played Fallout 2 if you feel as if Fallout 3 is a series of whacks. Tactics is considered a strong story with a lackluster background due to it having some things that fall out of canon with the time period. I like the villain, I like his goals, and it's a far enough stretch that Tactics kept me entertained. Fallout 4 puts a bit more work? Really? Considering there are about 5 settlements that are important to any form of plot, two of which have a decent enough backstory to where they don't live or die based one your character's actions and whims. 1 of them is automatically locked out based on your actions in a single mission, that still makes Fallout 4 several times smaller than Fallout 3. Which had a huge number of settlements that genuinely felt like people lived there. And that's not taking into account the number of Vaults in each game. Fallout 3 felt like a big world where people were struggling to live in. Fallout 4 is just meh because they had to make room for the whole "I can make my own settlement" aspect of gameplay so in exchange the only places you have that are actually apart of the world are Good Neighbor and Diamond City. The faction HQ are mostly separated from the world at large making them LITERALLY detached from the world in which they reside. Maybe when you explore the capital wasteland you like the idea of having a safety net where you get to kick back and follow a weak ass story, with weak ass companions, who are so useless that the only ones who are interesting seem to be the ones you aren't romancing (Mostly because there was time to flesh out their characters and backstories without them wanting to fuck you.) But I genuinely feel this game is just weak compared to 3 and NV. 3 gave me a massive world that changed and felt alive, while NV compacted it's world but gave me characters who actually mattered to some degree.Fallout 4 traded away some of that to please idiots who think the Witcher 3 is amazing and have never even attempted to finish it and have no idea what's being talked about. And now we're to the point of DLC. The entire reason why you seperate DLC when talking about NV and Fallout 3, is because for New Vegas it is 100% agreed that the first two DLC installments were ass. No one would debate that, and the main issue was that alot of shit got cut off of them, and ultimately they ended up being awful. Dead Money takes a route that is never explored, explained, or even hinted at over the course of Fallout New Vegas. It brings together a group of people under a weak pretense, and it ends on a horribly weak note. It had some fun moments with it's characters, but the final boss, the setting, and the story were weak. Honest Hearts is just not good. It tried to cram in a bunch of things cut from the original Fallout Van Buren, and it just didn't work well. Also it's not much of a budge. It's more like "I feel x because y." And the other one of us is basing his opinion off of comparative information from previous games. You can feel free to feel however you want though, more power to you. As far as companions go, yeah Nick's cool. But him, McCready, and maybe Cait or Curie, are the only ones that have any meat to them. Nick has the most because it feels like they had the design first and everything else later, so that works just fine. McCready works because if you know where he came from you ultimately start to care more about the character the more depth you get into it. Curie and Cait work because they seem to actually have stories that you're helping them with. Curie moreso than Cait because Cait's story has been done in Fallout so many times it hurts.
Clearly. Korra had a strong representative of each form of political ideology literally down to the point that the shows creators said that was the entire point of the series. It drove home that what someone does is more important than the labels we put on them. But ya know, not LGTB so of course no one cares. Adventure Time has dealt with depression, separation, sexuality, being rejected, struggling with relationships, and dealing with death. But ya know, Not LGTB so clearly not important. The only thing Steven Universe does better is it's handling of relationships, and even that's done so passively it's hardly worth a mention. "Fusion can be seen as sex." Holy shit, one whole fucking point? A point that's literally hammered home to us in A Story for Steven, and the only reason people care is it's because two female-bodied aliens?! SUCH SOCIAL JUSTICE! Mind you no one actually takes note that Steven is in a position to where he himself wouldn't understand or care about most of these things, which is why Garnet either skirts over them or tries to avoid bringing them up around him. But YEAH SOCIAL JUSTICE! WOMEN CAN BE STRONG TOO! I think most if not all of the points that could actually be seen as social justice, IE Depression, loneliness, the struggles of raising a child, and ultimately realizing that there's a chance love doesn't always win out, are wasted on a such a fanbase. That's the thing I'm really not getting here. Alot of the fans say the show is really gay and LGTB friendly. But those are so minor in terms of what actual social justice topics they tackle it feels more like some points have been missed. |
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 8 2015, 05:09 PM Post #39 |
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In other news I want to get back into Dota 2, because League keeps banning me for being toxic. |
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 16 2015, 04:37 AM Post #40 |
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Ok, apparently replaying Life is Strange and I don't hate the soundtrack. It's a perfect bland of Slice of Life and 'everyday escapism' that the game goes for. |
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| DehOtherGuy | Dec 21 2015, 12:23 AM Post #41 |
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The music and art style complement each other pretty well. |
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| Hideo | Dec 21 2015, 12:41 AM Post #42 |
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I found it funny that you called it the perfect bland. Jokes aside though I enjoyed it. |
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| OnishiGhetto | Dec 21 2015, 04:10 AM Post #43 |
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But that's the thing though it is the perfect bland. I don't like it, but I get it. It's just for me. It feels like someone really wanted to get out there and make a hipster tv show but couldn't quite bite the bullet. So they went for a low hanging fruit video game, but they needed a mechanic and didn't have time to explain it so they went with time rewind and never bothered to explain it. The music in it is slow paced, calming, and rarely gets overly emotional. That's how the game itself feels to me, up until you 'spoilers' come across rapey mc rape rape the teacher. It's a game about people, personalities, and their interactions. I just so happen to hate the two main people it focuses on because one's stupid and the other one is selfish. |
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| OnishiGhetto | Jan 6 2016, 03:59 PM Post #44 |
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So I finished Assassin's Creed Syndicate. It's good to see they're officially ending this serious on a horrible low note. |
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| DehOtherGuy | Jan 6 2016, 11:04 PM Post #45 |
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Are the AC games way too similar to each other, or are they different enough to warrant being fully priced individual titles? |
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