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Question about Fishman natural weapons
Topic Started: Jun 30 2013, 11:13 PM (518 Views)
Fatty
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I am curious... I plan on scooping my sea-turtle fishman in order to revamp his techniques a bit, and I figured that it'd also be a great time to iron out his natural weapon. I've noticed some natural weapons scaled naturally, and it would make sense for my sea-turtle's shell to get stronger and he got stronger.... but I am not exactly how it is to be done currently. I've heard different things said, but I noticed one fishman with strong shark teeth that scaled with fortune.. i.e. 8-55 - Iron; 56-87 - Steel; 88+ Titanium.... This seemed like the most logical way, but I also heard someone else say that I would only need to make a technique to improve my shell's durability strength; which kinda confused me a bit. If someone could explain to me the best and correct way to go about this, I would greatly appreciate it :)
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geomease
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with the exception og certain devil fruits that have altered scaling hardness or material destruction generally scales like this

fortune 1-54 iron
fortune 56 - 86 steel
fortune 88 + titanium

I've also heard rumors theres going to be a new benchmark at tech rank 66 so that might make them unbreakable tier but at this time nothing lie that has been confirmed or explained so work on the assumption it scales with those values.
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Darkhunter
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Fortune scaling is gone. Everything goes by tech ranks now. Fortune became a problem in that it was becoming a do it all type stat.
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geomease
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So a shark fishman is going to need a technique to represent their passive teeth. That makes no sense. Also for most devil fruits the fortune scaling values i gave equate to rank 28 44 and 66 for the base devil fruit anyway which is necessary to have that material hardness tier.
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Darkhunter
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Just like a zoan would need a techninque to raise the hardness of their shells if it was something like an armadillo zoan fishmen too go by this.
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geomease
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however a zoan could do that in their transformation techniques they wouldn't need a separate technique to say "they harden their shells" further more that implies that they have the ability o turn off their shells hardness. That would imply that they basically had free life return and could manipulate their bodies without needing training or traits to do so. I can understand the concet pf needing a tech for hardness but tying hardness to individual techniques is just silly.

For most devil fruits that offer hardened defenses they can invest their TP into the base rank to say that it allows them to increase their devil fruit to X hardness. But in this case you'd want a technique that purely states the obvious. Did arlong have a technique that allowed him to regrow his teeth? No it's a basic biological function of his species. It's the same thing, you might as well start requiring techniques that allow you to move your arms and legs and evacuate your bowels. What if they didn't make a technique, would you say sorry without an actual technique your shell doesn't exist, it has no hardness.

In addition saying that a technique is required to access basic iological functions basically means that the entire freeform system is nonexistent. That's like saying Luffy can't access his rubber bodies stretchiness unless he was using a specific premade technique.
Edited by geomease, Jul 1 2013, 04:53 PM.
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Darkhunter
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Everything freeform is weak. Understand that. Shooting even magma balls at someone freeforming will do nothing more than small burns. If you want something good you'll have to make a tech for it.
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geomease
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it makes no sense you might as well require a technique for everything

Rank 4 tech I have a head, rank 8 branch from I have a head, I have teeth

where will the madness end. Further more your opening yourself up to potential abuse. By saying a shark fishman needs a technique to regrow their teeth your opening up potential abuse and ludicrous game breaking because techniques will inherently scale in power and complexity. I have rank 4 iron teeth now I have rank 14 iron teeth that burn, now I have rank 28 steel teeth that shoot lasers

a bit of an exaggeration but you'd basically be forced to allow PC's to make up any number of effects in order to balance scaling. Unless your going to force them to spend upwards of a 1/4 their total TP pool to give them steel teeth and nothing else.

I can understand you wanting to avoid fortune being the new big stat but you're going to wreck the system and make it even more illogical than it already is.
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RainingBlades
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Make a base tech that basically says "at this rank, the hardness of the shell is steel" or whatnot. Done.
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Fatty
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Thank you guys, I think understand now. So basically I will start off with an iron shell, and I won't need to make a technique until 28 for a more durable shell(steel). :)
Edited by Fatty, Jul 1 2013, 09:25 PM.
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Yaksha
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For fishmen, there are various 'types' of things that they can have.

I'll roughly break it down.

Naturally Occuring- Teeth, shells, slippery skin...all those kinds of things. These are simple racial skills, things that they HAVE. Within these, most things such as teeth are assumed to scale up via techniques; that is to say, with a rank 28 technique you can bite through steel using those teeth. If you instead wanted a rank 28 technique where you can passively use your teeth to break techniques for the duration, that's fine as well. But teeth themselves really don't have a hardness. If you want them to regenerate, then they regenerate at a speed you and everyone else can agree on. If you'd like to have an upper hand in those negotiations you can make a technique.

They exist in freeform, can be used in freeform, and lose very little from being used in freeform; teeth are just THERE. The techniques relate to how one uses those teeth, and in that aspect it can be something as simple as 'they spent so long biting through chains for fun, now they can bite through steel.' But techniques are always and forever the golden resource for hardness and destroying things now.

Then there's stuff like shells. Having them scale up used to be fine when 36 strength meant iron was tissue paper and 74 strength meant steel was impenetrable. These days, people specifically need techniques to break defenses; this means if you create a rank 44 technique that just says "This character's shell is really hard", then people need a rank 44 technique to destroy or bypass that shell through brute force. This is because breaking objects is more of a practiced effort than a simple thing one does, and thus consistently breaking things needs a technique. And thus, if you want to force someone else to have a technique to bypass your armor, you need to use a similar resource to show this; namely, a technique.

And before people bitch: The trait gives access to these techniques. They essentially let you have a passive rank 44 tekkai that doesn't require you to stand still, but goes away for a thread as soon as it's broken even once. That's absolutely worth a trait.
Edited by Yaksha, Jul 2 2013, 03:18 PM.
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Vilis
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In short, it's not that your natural weaponry (shell, claws, teeth, etc.) suddenly become tougher, you can use them as if they were weapons using techniques. A human wouldn't be able to use their teeth to bite through steel, even if they had a technique, but a shark fishman could. Is this how it works?

On a similar topic, would a fishman also need an appropriate profession to perform such feats? I assume yes, but I just want to make sure.
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thenecessity
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Biting is biting. Requiring a profession for that sounds retarded, but well, we can see what other responses are.
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Clarity
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No Villis, you wouldn't really need a profession to use your natural weapons
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