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Fated Profession Discussion Thread
Topic Started: Oct 26 2012, 08:04 PM (818 Views)
Clarity
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Must all aspects of role play be predetermined?


Section 1: Why A fated profession should be allowed.

Malleable Youth - Children and young adults alike go into the world with opportunities at their feet and the naivety to expect the best of life. These impressionable youth whether prepared or not tend to be easily turned to one craft or another, not quite as rigid in their modality as their older counterparts. These young men and woman take refuge in generality and seek out the things they can call their niche. Those who are impressionable in age or in mind are able to replace this profession for a different one at intervals of 150SD which then becomes their permanent primary profession, this can only be done between story logs, not during.


My Reasoning:

1) Role playing isn't simply storytelling

a) Roleplaying is assuming the role of a character and from there, not only expressing the characters actions in as genuine a manner as possible but developing that character. It is allowing characters to mold the story and in turn for the story to mold them

b) There are multiple forms of role playing, but all multiplayer roleplay environments can be influenced by the characters within them not just the DM or narrator. This influence isn't limited to the character alone or their environment but expands towards others characters as well. This ability to influence the route of the stories and the growth of the characters within is one of the more appealing aspects of rping multiplayer environment.

2. OPRP is not a novel

a) The point of storylogs is to document the journeys of the characters within the OPRP world. As none of our members are mind readers (or at least have not made it known that they are) it is safe to presume that we do not know what other players will post when we are doing a thread with them. This aspect is exciting and allows for the trajectory of a story log to remain unpredictable. Though the direction of the story itself can be discussed the route taken is usually left up to the writers within it, and there are those who just go with a concept and allow the story to run its course. Regardless to approach both methods allow for characters to change and develop according to the story and adapt and evolve because of it.

b) As stories progress characters, like real people will change in accordance to the situations they are placed under. A tap dancer forced to go to war, probably isn't going to remain a tap dancer and instead would become a soldier. A young marine who comes in as a chore a boy and is forced to cook for his division, would most likely become a cook. A young boy with no prior guidance, talents or hobbies will likely pursue whatever path he encounters. The malleable youth profession allows for these things to be determined icly, opposed to his path being oocly influenced by his pre-selected profession. Dictating the characters profession or potential in a field without allowing outside influences to help guide it is godmodding, as it forces characters to remain a certain way despite logical evidence of progession in other areas. This also forces a one sided relationship were the ic aspects of roleplay are influenced by ooc aspects, but the ooc aspects, remain completely untouched by ic.


Section 2: Counter Arguments

I) Having a trait as profession bonus is not allowed.

"Those who are impressionable in age or in mind are able to replace this profession for a different one which then becomes their permanent primary profession, this can only be done at points where profession traits are gained and only between story logs, not during." that is the bonus of malleable youth, or a fated profession. The only trait that could be viewed as even similar to this is the Jack of All Trades trait.

Jack of All Trades (1 Trait) – The character is able to master multiple skills, and has become adept at a number of things. This character gains two additional secondary professions. A character may not have Weapons Specialist, Marksman and Martial Artist.

Though the traits are similar, they are far from the same. Jack of all Trades does not replace a profession, on the contrary it provides 2 additional professions which are secondary. Malleable Youth's bonus subtracts a profession to gain a new one effectively replacing it. To say that Malleable Youth is the same as Jack of All Trades is to say 1-1+1=1 is = to 1+2=3

II) Why not just use Jack of All Trades

As mentioned above Malleable Youth and Jack of All Trades aren't the same, but for even more clarity toward why, Jack of All Trades still forces a character to be godmodded into having potential in a field that IC may not have dictated, and subtly imposes this upon the character. While Malleable Youth resonates with both the IC and OOC aspect of the rp allowing IC to regulate what road a character takes while still holding the place of a profession in the realms of ooc.

III)OPRP is based off an RPG Structure

The structure of OPRP can be broken down into standard rpg format. Characters do missions/story logs and gain experience/SD that allows them to get stronger as they progress. They have access to classes/professions that give specific benefit when they are chosen. These professions are deadlocked and can not be chosen without starting a new game/scoop. But many rpgs have their main character as a well rounded character that excels in no field, let me introduce you to The Freelancer, and jobless classes. These are starter classes meant to give the player a character that doesn't excel and can change as their story progresses, which is exactly what a fated proFession would be.

IV) "(We) won't cater to fickle members"

The community is made up of members, and the staff regulate the site in a manner meant to make an effective and enjoyable environment for all people within the community while providing a sense of fairness to the player base as a whole. Members who would prefer that their stories dictate the path their character takes are devote in this reasoning, a fickle member is one who scoops as they are unsatisfied with previous decisions or uncertain of what they want to do with their current character. Scooping is allowing people to rectify their mistakes, but it can interfere with canon and other aspects of the roleplay. The Malleable Youth profession allows players to maintain canon and change their character in accordance to it. providing a much smoother choice out of the two.

V) Snowball Effect/ Slippery Slope

This argument is used often, and for a lot of things, but I will only address the problems with it in regard to this topic. The snowball effect is the fear of the unknown the suspicion that because one person had an idea and it was successful other people will have ideas thinking this will be successful as well. My question is, why is this a bad thing? If people are given a system (which they are) and they suggest it according to the format, why would innovation be considered a bad thing? Do we condemn devil fruits ahoy? Though the majority of the suggestions on there are flops, we have gained a fruits from it that have helped grant more diversity to the site and build it as a whole. We have also sculpted a better process for creating such fruits and this has definitely cut down on ridiculous suggestions because of it. As far as Malleable Youth is concerned, it is a profession for waiting to gain a profession, the only thing it could snowball into is a profession which is the point of Malleable Youth entirely.

Section 3: My Suggestion
Approve this profession and create a canon profession that mimics the bonus to allow new players the ability to have ic mandate their characters development opposed to the current ooc only way it is run.

I would suggest something along the lines of

Jobless - Those who have not yet found their niche in life are limited to the more menial tasks in it. Finding nothing to commit themselves to they find their potential untapped and their limits unreached. These unshaped people have the potential to seek out where it is they truly excel and are able to replace this profession for a different one which then becomes their permanent primary profession, this can only be done at points where profession traits are gained and only between story logs, not during.
Edited by Clarity, Apr 16 2013, 12:03 AM.
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Darkhunter
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when you make a character app you determine the full potential a character has, you can't add on new potential and such without a scoop. This is so that a character is complete and can't just become whatever the user wants depending on the situation.
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Clarity
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read the app.
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Benjamin Kaito
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Too long, didn't read. But the answer is simple. There's a system in place, freeform is limited by it, therefore, this makes no sense.
Edited by Benjamin Kaito, Oct 26 2012, 08:41 PM.
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Hunter Silverberg

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Clarity
Oct 26 2012, 08:34 PM
read the app.
What that guy said
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Benjamin Kaito
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Clarity
Oct 26 2012, 08:42 PM
Clarity
Oct 26 2012, 08:34 PM
read the app.
What that guy said
Read my answer. Still applies.
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Hunter Silverberg

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Nesdam
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Clarity
Oct 26 2012, 08:34 PM
read the app.
What he said
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Banned Goon
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read the app, if u dont ill fucking kill u and have my goon brother rape your mom and sisters
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Dyson
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I'd like to open up that I think that your pushing such an issue to try and help out a member unable to decide on a profession is admirable (If I understood your story earlier, that is). It's true, characters do grow and change as they experience a variety of things, and such a flexibility would be excellent for those who are unable to decide on a direction.

Everything else, I'm afraid I take issue with.

I'll try to cover some of the bases as far as my argument, but I'll start with another clarification.

0. I do not approve of taking Jack of All Trades after creation.

It's simple, really. A profession is supposed to represent the natural and learned learnings of a character. A character who starts with Jack of All Trades is one who dabbled in multiple fields, learning different things, and came out with more applicable skills than others did. You have your main skill you trained in, or were a natural for, and the secondary skills you picked up along the way (your history) and show promise in. Suddenly becoming a skilled doctor and martial artist doesn't fit without extensive time expenditures, and the site doesn't have a fair way to reflect that. Just RPing out training and learning is the closest one can do, but it still feels rather shallow.

That's the only thing that supports your profession conceptually, and I disagree with it. So let's move on.

1. A blank profession gap represents unlimited possibilities.

This is the first problem. Your character steps out of character creation an individual. They've had a life, learned lessons, and it doesn't matter if they're 9 years old or 30, they are a complete individual who has begun an adventure on the site. They've learned certain things, or acted certain ways, and that's shaped their personality and their personal style in such a way that you can write it all down. As creators, we're meant to give them themes and styles and breath life into them.

Now, like I was saying, a profession reflects your natural leanings, your learning style, your surroundings and your training. You might have picked up a blade and mastered it in combat, or mastered it in the kitchen. You might have high agility, and turned that towards a life of theft or even assassinations. You might have taken to books and ended up a Navigator or a Doctor. As poor as some of the results are, there's meant to be a reason that your character turns out a certain way.

Having a blank spot to be filled in later does not merely state 'My character will find his calling'. If you honestly wanted that, you should decide their calling and deny them their mastery. A borne Navigator who's never handled a chart, or a young woman with a beautiful voice who has never once sang a note. Instead you have a character who can become anything - they could just learn mastery of the spear from being taught, or discover a talent in creative machinery, or suddenly become a penny-pincher, or suddenly fall into the world of assassination. You're making a multi-talented character who has the ability to become anything - once - and that's not realistic nor does it represent a higher level of RPing. It's putting 'TBD' there, it'll be used to reflect what you want later, rather than how the world takes them. If it was honestly a 'what he was meant for' issue, you'd be better served to have someone else tell you what they sound like. None of this 'I want to master the sword now, something I have previously shown no rare talent with'. Grow on your concepts, don't obscure them.

2. Use the Scoops.

Make mistakes. Give your character a main Entertainer and then realise he's really a much better marksman and swap them when you can. Try out all the techniques you want and then fix your TP usage when you're done. Go for that Octopus Mermaid and then decide the personality wasn't right. Sure, it causes work for everyone involved, but scooping was done so you could experiment, see where you can have fun, and roleplay out your ideas without getting harassed by massive power losses or even going back to square one if your mood changes.

There's nothing wrong with scooping. There's nothing wrong with picking a profession combo you think fits, and then deciding he's more of a doctor than a scientist. We have rules for it, of course, but it's a small change. It's more important to get out there and roleplay and have fun than arguing to be allowed to pick between every profession in the future and never get anywhere.


On to your counter-arguments, at least those I haven't covered. This will be quicker.

Counter I & II: Jack of All Trades

The statement regarding the trait and profession issue was a little off. It is true that the profession would provide 1/2 the power of Jack of All Trades, but it's also a main profession. Changing the main is the biggest part of the issue. Use Jack if you want access to traits or technique forms. Use a scoop if you want to redefine a primary.

Counter III: RPG Systems

Starter classes like the Freelancer exist is most games because you want to introduce concepts steadily. Once someone learns the basics of combat, let them pick a special direction with special powers (Take RO for example). The FF games are a terrible example to use because in them you can choose any class you want constantly, and many of the 'Bare' classes that let them serve a purpose outside of the start. In most class-using systems, you select one at the beginning or after the tutorial and are stuck with it.

The point in which your character is 'Jobless' and doesn't fall into a class? That's your history. Use it wisely to form your character, rather than forcing a square (Swordsman) character in a round (Entertainer) hole.

Counter IV: Fickleness

Scoops are important, but also we hate them. We set a time limit to stop people from flooding the registrations with their new biggest idea, and even then people feel they need it more often.

Not committing to something as major as -what your character is good at- is as bad as making them a TBD Mermaid. Commit to the character when you make it, at least for three months. You're writing a character for people to interact with, not a blank slate to be formed by whoever you fall in with.

Counter V: Slopes and Balls

I never agree with this kind of argument. It can be just as bad as they say. This profession would not collapse the world as we know it, and usher in a world of blank slates with no personalities or histories or genders until other people define them. No, in general it's just an idea that won't work in the site's philosophy, and offers nothing of real value aside from letting one or two people put off a decision.


Nice work putting together a suggestion topic like this. It's been the most positive aspect of your reaction.
Mariko Hel Eljudnir • No Position • Carpenter/Martial Artist • No Crew • Bounty: 58,000,000 • SD Earned: 200 • Beli: 41,000,000 • Location: Island of Rage, Grand Line
• Strength: 80 • Speed: 45 • Stamina: 70 • Accuracy: 35 • Fortune: 53 •

Lark Reyes • Commander • Inventor / Marksman/Martial Artist/Smith • The Ardent WingsCommendations: 41 • SD Earned: 287 • Beli: 45,572,500 • Location: Kyuka, Route 2
• Strength: 53 • Speed: 125 • Stamina: 54 • Accuracy: 125 • Fortune: 67 •

Veice Vicious • No Position • Navigator / Weapon Specialist • No Crew • Threat: 103.5 • SD Earned: 215 • Beli: 20,850,000 • Location: Loguetown, East Blue
• Strength: 84 • Speed: 84 • Stamina: 55 • Accuracy: 50 • Fortune: 57 •

Ritsuka 'Rizumu' Meiban • No Position • Entertainer/Weapon Specialist • No Crew • Bounty: 60,00,000 • SD Earned: 214 • Beli: 48,900,000 • Location: Naia Island, Route 4
• Strength: 45 • Speed: 60 • Stamina: 54 • Accuracy: 65 • Fortune: 56 •


Remember those who tread before you.
Jeanne LaraheAlycia Rose CrawfordSanosuke 'Onii-chan' HaradaLina Aconite
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Benjamin Kaito
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Oct 26 2012, 08:50 PM
read the app, if u dont ill fucking kill u and have my goon brother rape your mom and sisters
I like your toughness on the internet, must have been a long day in front of the computer, bashing the keyboard, so I understand you need to blow off some steam and even show off a little. But be warned, this isn't your litter box kid, nor this is the place to spam nonsense. You're are free to try and post something smart here, relevant and if you aren't capable, I think you could always look up in the dictionary and bash some words together. With luck, you might be able to make some sense.
Edited by Benjamin Kaito, Oct 26 2012, 09:09 PM.
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Hunter Silverberg

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Darkhunter
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No point HL I banned him
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Clarity
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Dyson, Thank you for actually taking time to read over the app. I appreciate your well worded response, and giving counter arguments. I hope, with all my heart you will be staff. This is more a plea to reevaluate the philosophies of the site rather than just the approval of the profession, but to argue my view in that would probably derail the topic further. With that.

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Edited by Clarity, Oct 26 2012, 09:48 PM.
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dark
 
when you make a character app you determine the full potential a character has, you can't add on new potential and such without a scoop. This is so that a character is complete and can't just become whatever the user wants depending on the situation.


Pretty much what dark said.

As an example, pretend you pick martial artist as a profession. This is for OOC purposes only, you can still RP your character as if they don't have a lick of combat/martial arts experience and have them grow gradually through SLs. Similarly, you can have 100 million beli on your character sheet, but still RP your character as if he is broke as fuck.

Generally, staff doesn't like approving things like this that can be abused on an ad hoc basis. It's kinda like saying "I don't need my 2nd free starter weapon, but I'll leave it as "mysterious weapon" for now until I suddenly need a specific weapon for an SL". Well, yours is more practical than that, but I think you understand where I was going with the example.

Now, I'll try to end this post, because Dyson did a pretty great job at explaining most of this too (though I gotta say I skimmed quite a bit), but I do want to say that not knowing what to take as a profession is okay. I know it may seem a bit unfair, because OPRP seems to have a pretty steep learning curve, but that's also why we have the scoop system. It's there so people can be adventurous, make mistakes, and not let their choices haunt them the rest of their time on the site.

Anyway, hope this means you're back now.

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Blue Euringer
SD Earned: 392
Bounty: 75 million
Affiliation: Pirate
Profession: Martial Artist / Thief
Devil Fruit: Pamu Pamu no Mi

Crew: The Black Sale Trading Company (BSTC)
Position: Captain
Current Members: 3
Crew Bounty: 193 million
Current Location: Sea Train Zone - Pucci

Then Tommy tries to think up a plan to defeat this guy and after a few seconds, thought of the perfect plan to knock him out which was to punch him in the back of the head. He then out maneuvers him by side stepping to the back of him and punches him right on the back of his head perfectly which then knocks him out for the rest of the bar brawl. "That took care of him, now who next?"

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Nero
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Whenever I think of this "profession" it reminds me of the discussions people had about creating bipolar characters or characters with split personalities. Those sorts of characters can be interesting to write and to read, but this issue would always surface:

"We can't have the character suddenly becoming type A personality when its convenient, and then switching to type B when that becomes convenient."

However, if I remember correctly, it was said that if the mods had confidence in the person's writing skill or character, they would be okay with approving it because they wouldn't have to worry about the split personality being abused.

In my opinion, this profession can lead to interesting and unique roleplay, or it could lead to be the "I'm suddenly a navigator before I enter the GL" situation that I assume is the biggest complaint the staff has about this profession.

So, do I think "fated-professions" are fine? Yeah, I do, as long as they're handled in a mature way. Balance wise it really doesn't break the game, and while I do like what's been said about a character having already been "made" by the time they're made, I don't really see an issue if someone wants to play a 'WIP' character.
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Clarity
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Oct 26 2012, 10:37 PM

Generally, staff doesn't like approving things like this that can be abused on an ad hoc basis. It's kinda like saying "I don't need my 2nd free starter weapon, but I'll leave it as "mysterious weapon" for now until I suddenly need a specific weapon for an SL". Well, yours is more practical than that, but I think you understand where I was going with the example.
That's true, having the ability to just pick a "mystery weapon" or profession in accordance to the needs of the crew, wouldn't be very cool. But that is why the profession can only be used when you are not in an sl, and can only be used at 100 SD intervals, the purpose of that is solely to deter people who want to "mystery gift", and though changing a profession can be done with a scoop, I think this would be a good alternative option to have, for those who just want their characters profession to be dictated by ic. If someone were to take this profession with the goal in mind to abuse it they would have to go 100SD worth of SL's without anything over rank 14, no practical skill or knowledge in any of the field, and grossly limit themselves just to possibly abuse at 100 SD and if they can't abuse at 100 SD they would then have to go until 200SD as someone with no focus making taking it with intent to abuse extremely impractical.

Though it could bring to light people asking "Why can't I just change leave my history blank?" or "Why can't my combat stay empty till IC decides it?" it's because those are defined, if you lived your life you have a history, it doesn't have to be anything amazing, but it is a life, and as for combat if your character lacks a style or approach to fighting it simply means they can't fight and that should be put down into combat. Things like this can be easily shot down with these arguments preventing a slope from ever getting slippery. Our slopes are in Jamaica :D
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