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| Conquering - the only way? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: May 3 2012, 01:40 PM (2,061 Views) | |
| Serrational | May 4 2012, 08:52 AM Post #31 |
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Odd.
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Well, so apparently to get good at Armour Haki, you have to be able to overpower other's wills? What? That sounds just... bizarre. And, well, it'll probably stay in it's infancy, since so few people can gain access to it. Because they cannot do anything different with Haki without the Conquering Haki, even if they never used it. |
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| GreenSerpent | May 4 2012, 08:55 AM Post #32 |
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Newbie
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In addition, look at the potential for choice that the Kings Haki gives people. Someone who doesn't have Kings Haki: Restricted to Armament and Observation Haki. Two types, plus the potential to possess a Devil Fruit. Someone who has Kings Haki: Armament, Observation, Sovereign and custom. Four types, plus the potential to possess a Devil Fruit. People who don't have King's Haki have a severe restriction on what they can potentially do then. In addition, in Jagi's page it states that she renders herself immune to her own spirit birds (which it is stated to be projectiles of Haki) by fusing her Custom Haki and the King's Haki. So people can't resist their own Haki unless they have the King's Haki, hmmm? Seems awfully restrictive. EDIT: Or to sum what I'm saying, not having Kings Haki restricts people greatly. Edited by GreenSerpent, May 4 2012, 08:58 AM.
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| Comma | May 4 2012, 09:09 AM Post #33 |
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Oh, wow.
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I don't see how this is much of a problem if you can just scoop and scoop forever. But, yeah. The drawback is that you lose time of your life. But just that. Also, couldn't you just make a trait or profession-combo that is very similar to Haki? Like a soul-piercing song/bomb/chemical of some sort? There must be creative ways to simulate Haki-effects through unconventional methods. You want bird-projectiles? Use inventions that do something similar. Or make a chemical that generates Bird-fumes of some sort and that you have genetically altered your blood to have bird-chemical blood. I dunno. I see trying to surpass an obstacle (like getting king-haki effects) head on much more difficult that just figuring out clever shortcuts. Edited by Comma, May 4 2012, 09:14 AM.
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| Serrational | May 4 2012, 09:15 AM Post #34 |
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Odd.
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Well... that was kinda what I asked at the beginning. Is it scoopity scoop? EDIT : Well, it may just be time, but it might be a character you like. EDIT + 1 : Well, none of them really get the DF hitting pizzaz of Haki, unless you get some kinda Seastone thing. Edited by Serrational, May 4 2012, 09:18 AM.
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| GreenSerpent | May 4 2012, 09:20 AM Post #35 |
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Newbie
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Unless your name is Vegapunk Junior, I don't think those fit within the technological parameters of the One Piece World. If you can do that then you might as well go the whole hog and create some new Devil Fruits. EDIT: For example, if you can make your blood turn into highly explosive bird-shaped projectiles then I think a Plasma Logia isn't too impossible after all! Edited by GreenSerpent, May 4 2012, 09:23 AM.
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| ♥ Singularity | May 4 2012, 09:52 AM Post #36 |
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Dairy 4 T4
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It's in it's infancy because it's only just been created, with time we'll identify flaws and erase them steadily refining it, it does not been it's going to simply stay static just because of low use. No that isn't what it means at all, just because one character uses custom as a means to protect against their own haki doesn't mean that no one else can do it without that. It would be perfectly plausible to protect yourself against your own haki with basic color of armaments and as for inventions, your freedom with them increases with rank you can get away with some pretty outlandish stuff at rank 28+. |
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Izuru & Yogi • Crew Position: Captain • Weapon Specialist • Frostbite Pirates • Bounty: 350,000,000 • SD Earned: 1192 • Beli: 345,100,000 • Location: Florian Triangle • Theme: Kazuki • Crew Position:N/A • Assassin • N/A • Commendations: 88 • SD Earned: 356 • Beli: 165,500,000 • Location: Little Garden Xavros • Crew Position:Fool • Entertainer • Theme tune • Bounty: 103,000,000 • SD Earned: 406 • Beli: 191,000,000 • Location: Machine Island Anthrax • Crew Position:N/A • Inventor • N/A • Bounty: 0 • SD Earned: 186 • Beli: 74,000,000 • Location:Gesso Island Kuma • Crew Position:N/A • Smith • N/A • Threat: 30 • SD Earned: 181 • Beli: 16,900,000 • Location:Custom Island Things i look at when i'm feeling blue King of the Pirates An Unreachable Dream Finally a Father, they make you so proud
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| Comma | May 4 2012, 10:12 AM Post #37 |
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Oh, wow.
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Oh hellz yeah. But, I wouldn't just close myself just to Scientist and Inventors. But still, I'm seen the Pika Pika Logia Scientist guy who has pseudo-Plant DF powers through clever use of traits and professions. Plant Plant no mi: You gotta pay more than 3 Traits to get it , I guess. Pseudo Plant plant no mi, Pika Pika Scientist Style: Just 1 Trait and some Money, baby. The same could be done with Haki. You wouldn't have Haki per se, but you got get something really similar, I guess. Chefs could create a spice with a smell so foul, it makes people faint. Kinda similar to King Haki? Entertainers could take down mooks better with 1 Trait for the Crow Control that the 2-Trait King Haki blastomasto can, IMO. Like a Superior King Haki, powered by music. So, IMO, I wouldn't worry about having Kings haki or not. We just need to use your imagination and ingenuity a lot more. Yeah, you don't have to think really hard to figure that King Haki is really good, but with a little creativity, I bet you can get something better than it - that even costs less traits/TP to use. Edited by Comma, May 4 2012, 10:19 AM.
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| ♠ RainingBlades | May 4 2012, 10:13 AM Post #38 |
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Excellent Host
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To expand on this: You are expecting the system to be perfect. You're expecting for us to have everything worked out to the last little detail so every single person can be happy about something. That is the idea of a utopia and, as you have probably guessed by now, utopias nor perfect systems are not possible. There will always be flaws of some kind, there just happen to be more because, as rayne said, it's a fairly new system. Also, you must again keep in mind that having haki does not make you better than everybody else, nor does having a devil fruit or being a cyborg or belonging to the fishman or merman race. What one person may use to get Haki another person can use to get something else that doesn't fall under any of those categories. There are plenty of strong characters that don't have devil fruit powers or haki and they are still capable of beating dozens of other characters simply because they are stronger and used their SD, traits, techniques and etc wisely. Will they have a slight disadvantage when facing a df user or a haki user? Absolutely, but I repeat slight disadvantage; they can still beat them if they are truly the strongest character. If you want a OP canon example, look at Zoro or Sanji. No haki, no devil fruit, yet they can still beat people with them. If you are still not getting it, look at it this way: Who is going to win a fight, a normal character who has utilized their potential to the max with what they have or somebody who simply has haki? The first person, in most cases, will be the winner. Now, I know you're probably going to make some type of response like "but the person with haki can utilize it to it's max potential and it's more powerful", but you would be again forgetting that what the normal character didn't put into haki went into something else. Haki is just a way of expressing and utilizing a type of power; it's not a golden ticket to winning at everything. To finish things off, I'm going to state what will probably be regarded as the most negative thing in this post: If you don't like it, leave. Or deal with it long enough until your in a position where you can (help) change it. That being said, criticism and suggestions are extremely helpful, but just don't try and shove anything down our throats when we've already remarked on where we stand and have tried to help you see things our way (not saying that you are trying to shove it down our throats but.... you get what i mean). Edited by RainingBlades, May 4 2012, 10:15 AM.
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Literally Annie The Gang On Hiatus Never Forget thelonelynarrators | |
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| Comma | May 4 2012, 10:25 AM Post #39 |
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Oh, wow.
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You want King Haki? Best Strategy: Scoop the hoop and loop the loop and Scoop until you get it. Problem with that: Its not fun at all. Possible solution: Have a minimum in Fortune/SD to get it? Or you have to complete some superawesome epic SL in order to obtain it? Simply "Luck" is a bit problematic for some. (Dun dun dun, the dices have chosen the elite, the rest may suffar, bwahahaha) I dunno. Tossing ideas around for the improvement. I still prefer inventions and stuff over King Haki though, because I believe that you can get more bang for your buck through that. Edited by Comma, May 4 2012, 10:32 AM.
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| KileyBarker | May 4 2012, 10:34 AM Post #40 |
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A True Hero
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You have to do a sl to get haki already. Also scoops don't really help so much if you want to get stronger faster. I'm sure since you are fairly new you have experienced our character registration process already. It is a slow system sometimes. If you keep the original character and never scoop him, you will get higher sd faster. Every day you spend waiting for a scoop to go through you could be rping. Just a note for you. I don't really understand your scoop de loop game thing. Scooping is there in case you get bored of your character/character archetype. The scooping system is so you don't lose everything you have worked hard for. Edit: There is also a 3 month wait time between scoops. That is a long time man. Edited by KileyBarker, May 4 2012, 10:36 AM.
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"And says 'at last' just as the time bell rings Goodnight, now it's time to go home And he makes it fast with one more thing We are the Sultans We are the Sultans of Swing" Characters 🐐 🐏
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| Yaksha | May 4 2012, 10:38 AM Post #41 |
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Fairy Killer
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A T5 Devil fruit, yes. Gomu. Clear. Mote. Bane. A vanilla zoan. A person with strictly Armor/Observation Haki can get, as an example, Suna. Numa. Doku. Choki. You're working off the assumption that having a devil fruit is what's important, but the kind of devil fruit you have matters just as much. A logia is almost immediately limited to only the first or second tiers of haki. A zoan can hit Conquerer's if they really try. You don't need Conquerer's to get good with Armor Haki. You need conquerer's to make use of Haki in a way that canon doesn't show or imply is possible. Observation haki lets you read minds and see the future. It doesn't let you speak telepathically, or hypnotize people, or in any way actively influence their actions and behavior. Conquerer's does, by its very definition of causing unconsciousness. Thus using it to cause certain emotions, to spur on your allies and form battle strategies without ever opening your mouth...that's going to take an investment. It's beyond what we normally expect from Observation Haki, but it's not necessarily impossible given what Haki is/does. Similarly, if you wanted a type of Haki that surrounded your weapons, and allow you to create extensions off of them that changed the shape or length at will is a sort of Armor Haki, in that it augments your physical capabilities and those of your weapons. It doesn't however, fall into the rather narrow level of things we've seen it do. The debuff from Conquerer's haki if a person's not immediately knocked out, when you're at rank 40, is about -8 from each stat. That's a total debuff of 32. That's a whopping 2 points above any other debuff at the same rank. What Blades said is the best way to look at it; a person with conquerer's has spent 7 traits for what they have. Let's say that they have 90 fortune. They're fighting a person who bought Doku for 7 traits. They also have 90 fortune. Conquerer's tries to debuff Doku with a rank 45. Doku's too strong, loses ~40 stats. Doku then swarms Conquerer's with poison, and Conquerer's loses ~40 stats. Conquerer's then tries to use his custom haki to invade Doku's mind and make it harder for him to tell where Conquerer's is and what he's doing. Doku then creates a poison mist that makes it harder for Conquerer's to tell where he is and what he's doing. Conquerer tries to use his observation haki to spot Doku. Doku then uses HIS observation haki to tell where Conquerer is. Except Doku wins out because his Observation is capped at rank 44 and Conquerer's is capped at 30. Doku drowns Conquerer in poison and wins. Trust me on this, people. Conquerer's comes with more drawbacks than you think. Making a custom haki and getting it approved requires a lot of collaboration with mods, and a lot of time and effort. It's a pretty rare and difficult thing to pull off. You get 4 types of Haki, but 2 of them are effectively halved compared to someone who specialized in them, making you get 3 types of Haki all said. And your 7 trait investment isn't really going to trump someone else's 7 trait investment. It's better in some ways, not as good in others. It's a choice, and we try to make it a pretty evenly weighted one. |
![]() Yaksha (Laneh) • Assassin • Martial Artist • Navigator • Thief • Ragnarok Pirates • Bounty: 75,000,000 • SD Earned: 0/300 • Beli: 35,350,000 • Location: Weatheria Strength: 57------Stamina:50------Speed:75--------Accuracy:60-------Fortune:78 Malikai • Marksman • Smith • Doctor • Scientist • N/A • Threat: 34.5 • SD Earned: 0/177 • Beli: 18,750,000 • Location: Candy Island Strength: 45------Stamina:39------Speed:40--------Accuracy:60-------Fortune:61 Juan • Inventor • Weapon Specialist Bounty: 5,000,000 • SD Earned:0/88 • Beli: 23,350,000 • Location: Strength: 45------Stamina:35------Speed:25--------Accuracy:25-------Fortune:30 Ahriman (Savlin) • Doctor • Scientist • N/A • Threat: 2 • SD Earned: 0/47 • Beli: 8,270,000 • Location: Pharsalus Island Strength: 15------Stamina:13------Speed:19--------Accuracy:25-------Fortune:23 | |
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| Comma | May 4 2012, 10:40 AM Post #42 |
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Oh, wow.
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Dassucks. Then, the Scoop forever thing is just impractical. Then the problem is Custom bizzare hakis? I got mystic lost black fire of supermonks of the south because Chemicals. Good for you. I got mystic lost black fire of supermonks of the south because Music. Good for you I got mystic lost black fire of supermonks of the south because Haki. Good for you. Its just another reason to get some outlandish power. You can do the same with inventions/flour/flowers/DFs/drugs, etc. So, yeah. I got no problem with Custom Hakis. Different currency, but you buy the same thing. Why is this such a problem for others? Idontunderstand. Edited by Comma, May 4 2012, 10:54 AM.
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| ♠ RainingBlades | May 4 2012, 12:56 PM Post #43 |
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Excellent Host
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Tecnically, you already need a minimum about of SD to get it: at least 200 because that's the requirement for Disciplined Haki in order to get it. The reason we use luck instead of, say, a "superawesome epic SL" is because the later becomes a matter of opinion. It's the "If we don't feel like your SL is awesome enough, then you don't get it" mentality. By keeping it random, anybody who wants to get it and has the traits/sd necessary can and it wont matter whether they have 200 or so sd or 500. That being said, I refer to shamma's previous statement that if you want to raise eyebrows on how one or two of the highest sd characters on the site both managed to get it despite the luck factor, you may. But also keep in mind that not many people have even tried rolling for it to begin with... Finally (and this is not particularly directed at anyone), going off of what Yak said, you can counteract debuffs not only be debuffing back, but by simply buffing yourself. In that same scenario, the devil fruit user could instead just have a regular zoan whose rank buffs counteract the debuffs. And if you aren't going to win unless you absolutely have those buffs, chances are you'd probably lose anyways. As far as the potential "mind-controlling" like haki, there are zoan techniques that can change a person's personality and mind-set quite a bit as they given in to the true nature of the beast or something like that. So theoretically, you could cycle through different zoan forms to help prevent the haki or at least slow it down. Or you could pull out your own tricks by using your zoan powers or even powers from other stuff you invested in. Sorry if I'm going on and on about things; this is just what's on my mind right now. |
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Literally Annie The Gang On Hiatus Never Forget thelonelynarrators | |
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| Darkhunter | May 4 2012, 01:06 PM Post #44 |
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Anti-Pika Specialist
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Yak will you stop revealing stuff we haven't officially decided on. ._. You're killing me man, my blood pressure throughout this topic.... Now for Dark to step in. Okay CoC haki the deal with it is that its basically a mook canon as is which when it costs 4 more traits than regular haki doesn't make it all that more appealing at all especially when you could invest that into other things that would be much more useful. Adding custom haki which has a basis in the original 3 forms adds a useful element and makes it worth the trait cost. Now the problem is that people don't seem to understand what it allows you to do. Yak explained this well so I won't go into detail but to put it simple, you're all crazy if you think it allows you to do Spirit Bombs that blow up the planet. CoC right now is only ridiculously strong because Jagi is ridiculously strong. Also only the#1 and #4 strongest guys have kings. and on a final note the rarity is the cause of why there is a luck factor or else it'd be too common and if you want to waste years trying to get King's well you probably deserve it then. |
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| Ace65 | May 4 2012, 01:15 PM Post #45 |
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Member
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I think something that a lot of people have alluded to throughout this thread is that it really all comes down to your creativity. Conq. Haki or no, it's going to take some imagination to really get the most mileage out of those techniques, whether you're on the offensive or defensive side. Plenty of people have stated alternative ways to defend against Haki, so I won't even bother following up on that. Now what I heard from you in the chat was, it's not that you think custom Haki is leet hax, it's that you want it to be available to everyone provided they train hard enough. To me, it seems like that kind misses the point about Conq. Haki being 'one in a million' like it is in canon, and on this site. A couple of people are very powerful here. If you want to flex your creative muscles and feel like you need the same traits they have to do it properly, then it might be a good idea to think further outside the box. |
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Frank Wilson • Weapon Specialist/Marksman • Totally a CP agent • Threat: 4.5 • SD Earned: 63 • Beli: 13,786,000 • Location: Briss Kingdom, South Blue Venus Sandoval • Bartender/Inventor/Markswoman/Mixologist • Shining Black Pirates • Bounty: 8,000,000 • SD Earned: 44 • Beli: 16,273,550 • Location: Bausyer Island, North Blue Malcolm Jeffries • Marksman/Gunsmith • Gear n' Sprocket Pirates • Threat: 0 • SD Earned: 0 • Beli: 500,000 • Location: Red Sand Island, West Blue Dross Adari • Navigator/Martial Artist • Starlit Dreamers • Threat: 0 • SD Earned: 0 • Beli: 500,000 • L: Candy Island | |
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