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Practice Start; Ask Questions and Discuss Strategies Here
Topic Started: Jan 29 2012, 03:33 AM (726 Views)
Soul Devour
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Ririchiyo and Supremezero, you have been partnered together to play as Reimu Hakurei, the Wonderful Shrine Maiden of Paradise.

Please feel free to use this topic to discuss with each other or to ask any questions you may have regarding your sheets, the rules, the map, and so on.
Edited by Soul Devour, Jan 31 2012, 03:44 AM.
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Ririchiyo
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Okay I read the sheet on my phone and am posting this from it too.

I like our passive and I don't think we should ever tell anyone about it. Our luck also seems really good even though I'm unsure how useful that stat itself is.

I have a few questions but I will have to ask them when I am on my main computer and not my phone.

And also, I hope we can excel, Supremezero.
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Ririchiyo
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Oh and also, I haven't real the story stuff yet but I will tonight. it looks pretty good but long. Like the rules, lol.

If there's one thing I know about Reimu it's that she lives and dies by plot armor, so keeping up with plot will be important I think.
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Ririchiyo
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Just some observations.

I think that all of the map spots (except maybe Rinnosuke's shop) correspond to a character in the war. Because we're at Hakurei Shrine, which is Reimu's house. Speaking of, the map effect here seems bad for us. I think we should move soon. And on a sort of related note I keep laughing at how obviously ms paint the map is.

I think the first thing we should do is go to moriya shrine since focus is really hard on us and rival shrines should just go burn! After that we should play passively/supportively since we're mostly SP based.

I forgot the questions I was going to ask and I can't ask them now because I have to go do something. I will reread our character sheet and ask again when I can. Sorry about my not being around, supreme.
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Supremezero
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About Hakurei Shrine being bad for us, not really. Unless Soul went batshit with his stats, we have easily the best encounter (Luck and Agi) stats, with 16.5 total. Given that we only need to win by 3 and we get a minor ambush, and the Hakurei Shrine's schtick only lasting til the end of the turn, we kind of nullify it for the first comer, and given that it's the place that no one would want to be, it's a good hiding place. What we DO need to do is drop a permanent border then leave, so we can use the effect on other people. As for Moriya shrine... what we really need to know is whether or not it's obvious that someone's in Focus.
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Ririchiyo
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So even though it's a good hiding place we're going to drop a barrier and then leave? Are we just keeping it in mind if the heat comes on?

Sorry I forgot about the barrier by the way. I'm still trying to think of how to play in the first place, skills and stuff aside.

What is the format for submitting moves? I know we should set up conditionals and stuff for every situation. Do we just type the actions we want to take/the reactions if certain things happen?
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Soul Devour
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Quote:
 
As for Moriya shrine... what we really need to know is whether or not it's obvious that someone's in Focus.


It is.

Edit: I should clarify that it is obvious if some enters or leaves Focus. You won't be able to tell their state just by looking at them though.

Quote:
 
What is the format for submitting moves? I know we should set up conditionals and stuff for every situation. Do we just type the actions we want to take/the reactions if certain things happen?


Unless you indicate it to me, I'm going to interpret the moves as it is written, with the first actions written occurring first.
Edited by Soul Devour, Jan 31 2012, 08:52 PM.
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Rinnosuke Morichika
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It might help to look at the games that have already been played, if you want to see how other players format their moves.
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Ririchiyo
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Yes I had planned to do that much but my free time is limited.

Some of the ones I have seen get really in depth. It's kind of scary but I guess that's what you need to do to be prepared.

Supremezero, you have been in these before, I assume. Do you want to make the first few moves so I can see formatting?
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Ririchiyo
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I finished reading the story and it was very good and very Touhou.

I'm guessing Aya and Suika are not part of the chosen seven. Same with Yukari because Yukari is super strong and I also think she was in the story on Gamefaqs.

I enjoyed the writing itself a lot. It was funny and fun to read and made me want more. I imagined Reimu drunkenly coming onto Suika. Good stuff lol.
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Ririchiyo
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I think it is worth it to put cautionary borders down wherever we go. Because it is cheap and lowers the bounded fields allowed and will also make people really nervous. The downside to this though is that they might start targeting us so maybe that's a bad idea.

Permanent border though is a definite thing to lay down as you said. I am just kind of worried about the upkeep because 100 mana seems like it will go away fast.

I am going to be out from around like 5-7 EST. I'm still hoping you'll do the move so I don't have to make a first one and mess us up,but if there isn't one when I get back I will do it.

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Soul Devour
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Just a note that Duplex Barrier must target two stats, it can't be a single stat.
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Ririchiyo
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Oh then make it so it hits both offensive stats.
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Ririchiyo
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Arrrgh I forgot to put in conditions for focus.

Please come back Supremezero.
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Supremezero
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I was sick yesterday. Sorry. Lately, I'm only really busy for entire days on Fridays.
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Ririchiyo
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Oh I'm sorry to hear that you are sick. That is a good enough excuse to not be around. I just hope my move wasn't too bad.

It seems that Marisa wants to be friends with us or so says Lillysatou. I said we'd also like to be friends.

I will wait for a response from them before I start thinking of a move. Also obviously I want your input too. Especially the little conditionals and stuff I surely forgot to include.
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Ririchiyo
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Argh!! I just realized I forgot to set up a permanent border at Hakurei!

I guess this turn we will go back and do that. I will keep most conditionals the same except adding more. I will remember to set one up here at least.

I would be really happy if you showed up before the deadline and could discuss or at least post a move. If not though I will post one in a half hour.
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Ririchiyo
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I went ahead and posted a move so I don't have to worry about it later on. If you want to change it you still can. I think I got everything.

I didn't include anything about graze because I don't think it will be an issue on the first turn of combat.
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Ririchiyo
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Argh that not wanting hostilities line makes me sound so suspicious. I am going to PM the other players and clarify. I'm not sure who to contact though. I might just do both.

Starting next turn I'll probably have us use absorb mana to help with upkeep costs and stuff. Though it worries to me to spend the SP since we are very support based.

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Ririchiyo
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I just remembered that duplex barrier affects Reimu too.

Ugh now I need to think about it more.
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Ririchiyo
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Another great story as usual Soul Devour :-)

I assumed I am making a move today because you're busy Supreme. That's fine.

The other teams want to be in an alliance with us. They're going to stay here. I told them I wanted to move to lay down barriers and stuff but I meant no harm. So hopefully with barriers we can keep track of them wherever they go.

Soul Devour I was wondering something. The permanent barrier isn't very specific about who is in the areas which kind of limits its usefulness. I had an idea about how to make it better though. It tracks movement right? So what if I told my allies to do specific moves to make themselves known. For instance I could tell Sakuya do put "do jumping jacks" in her move. Then in my status update the barrier would say that "one of the characters was doing jumping jacks" and I'd know it was Sakuya.

Anyway I'm going to make a move later. Feel free to give any input if you have time Surpreme, but no sweat if not.
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Soul Devour
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Permanent Border only tracks when someone enters an area and when someone leaves an area. It doesn't track the movements of people within the area.
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Supremezero
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Supremezero
Feb 2 2012, 01:52 PM
I was sick yesterday. Sorry. Lately, I'm only really busy for entire days on Fridays.
That, to be specific. Do you use AIM?

Ririchiyo
 
Soul Devour I was wondering something. The permanent barrier isn't very specific about who is in the areas which kind of limits its usefulness. I had an idea about how to make it better though. It tracks movement right? So what if I told my allies to do specific moves to make themselves known. For instance I could tell Sakuya do put "do jumping jacks" in her move. Then in my status update the barrier would say that "one of the characters was doing jumping jacks" and I'd know it was Sakuya.


It actually specifically says that it tracks entrance and exit.

Anyway, getting around this has a simple method of just making her move at a specific time, by lowering her luck to make it fit. I don't know if it can tell us exact luck, but if they're last in the area, it's fine. Beyond that, if people actually CAN use those ridiculously random movements people were joking about (moving around infinitely as long as no one saw them), they could just use a code of how many times they move in and out.

Ririchiyo
 
The other teams want to be in an alliance with us. They're going to stay here. I told them I wanted to move to lay down barriers and stuff but I meant no harm. So hopefully with barriers we can keep track of them wherever they go.


Alliances are fine. Bane of existence and all, but a necessary evil.

Ririchiyo
 
Argh that not wanting hostilities line makes me sound so suspicious. I am going to PM the other players and clarify. I'm not sure who to contact though. I might just do both.

It's probably actually Soul's interpretation, given that it's in the status.

Anyway, on to actual move discussion; Rule one, you cannot actually cover everything, you can just cover everything you can think of. But you still have to put a stop to it somewhere. Once you start going into "But what if he plans for if I plan for if he plans", you're just going into stupid territory.

Generally speaking, it's likely that Mag is the ruling stat in this war, unless Soul screwed up with Bombs: They only use Mag for their damage.

Regarding specific skills, one by one:

Tolerance is an instant win card, so as long as we survive, we're good. Which ties into the best way to use some skills.

Cautionary Border: We don't actually have any traps, so it's hard to say how useful it's main function is, but that's fine. It still has an auxiliary use. It's cheap and has no upkeep, so we can throw it up if free, if nothing else but to lock up a field slot.

Duplex Barrier: There's 3 ways to use this. Trick, Offense, and defense. There's other combinations, but those are the most important ones. Trick is using a stat that isn't often going to be used, which, given the bomb comment and that this is touhou-centric, is likely strength/endurance, unless we run into Suika (in which case, just drop the field). So raise Strength and lower endurance, then spam Ascension Kick with it's surprising goodness. Offense is for trying to kill as fast as possible, and the other version of trick: Raise Mag and lower Mag Res. Defense is what's actually most important for us, due to Tolerance: all we have to do is survive, so we flip Offense around, lowering Mag and raising Res, unless it's Suika or something. At that point, we'd likely have fair measure on the offense of those remaining anyway. Graze isn't really worth mentioning. It's there, and it's nice, but it doesn't really change anything other than slightly enhancing durability.

Evil Sealing Circle: The regen inhibition is meh. It effects everyone, including us. The health regen part is meaningless in the middle of combat, and hard to use outside of it to any real effect. We, meanwhile, like mana. A lot. So the mana regen reduction is bad for us. It is, however, another defensive measure to consider with Tolerance. Just not much of one. The other two effects are also meh. 5% is small, particularly with the high power of the high graze abilities. Though it stacks nicely with Fantasy Orb and the Divine boost. But still not very good, all in all. Plus, the graze reduction effects everyone. So bad.

Permanent Border: We've already gone over how to use this. It's basically useless for tolerance, since we're stuck in place anyway. If we could run around, it'd be great, but we can't.

Paparazzi-repelling Barrier: Pretty good. It's function is nice, but it's real bonus is that it can be carried around, thus giving a start to locking up field slots. No upkeep is also useful in that regard. Also consumes no SP, so it can be easily thrown up whenever, barring the cooldown and mana. We could easily throw it up just to use an attack. As for the information guarding itself, it's real use is probably hiding Duplex Barrier. If someone knows their stats are being dropped, or finds out later, they'll swap to the other stat.

Hakurei Twelve Syllable Seals: Great for using during Tolerance, since blocking access to spell cards is likely to be a huge blow to offense. It'll be easier to either start or finish the defense with it, for tolerance, since it breaks any other fields. Finish with it might be better. All in all, it depends on whether or not people are informed that they can now walk through it. If they aren't, throwing it up early so people know they can't walk through it, then throwing it up during Tolerance when they can might make them think they'll still need a bomb.

Hakurei Danmaku Reality Marble: Best damn skill. Damage reflection is nice, but it raises offense, raises only Reimu's corresponding defense by MORE, and doesn't boot other fields. That plus Twelve Syllable Seals by themselves take up 5 of the 7 turns of Tolerance.

Ascension Kick: Cheap, no graze, non-mag melee attack. Spiffy.

Hakurei Amulets: ... it's useful when Yin-Yang Sanctifier Orb isn't. That's about it.

Fantasy Orb: Great!... As long as we know that the enemy isn't in Focus. And generally speaking, why wouldn't you be?

Yin-Yang Sanctifier Orb: Main magic attack. it's like a stronger Hakurei Amulets. It has higher graze, but higher power, and a status effect. Triple mana cost, but if mana's an issue, use Ascension kick in the first place. Non-delayable, so use Ascension Kicks. So use it for magic attacks, and only use Hakurei Amulets if we know we need Homing on a focused target. Plus, it's AoE.

Blink: Finishing move, GO! Just don't use it if the targets focused. That attack power can easily be good for a good half of anyone's health, due to Reimu's good Mag. Duplex Barrier's bonus is nice, since Duplex Barrier's a good skill anyway. Two birds with one stone. Or at least 1 dead, 1 maimed. Evil Sealing Circle is meh, like the skil itself: 45% is still massive. Twelve Syllable Seals is debatable. It adds half the status effect in the book, and lowers the cost, but that's because it NEEDS to lower the cost: the two skills combine to normally exceed her max mana, and Twelve Syllable Seals only lasts two turns. Hakurei Danmaku RM is, of course, fantastic. Still an expensive shot, though.

Details for the 7 turns of Tolerance (prone to change based on how things work out by that point):

Defense Defense Defense. Survive Survive Survive. A preliminary 7 turn plan is: If we don't already have them up in the area, use Paparazzi and Duplex (defense), then get up Danmaku Reality marble, which can be done in one turn if necessary. Offense throughout the entire week should be limited to Ascension Kick, with a few exceptions. We don't need to kill, they're going to die anyway. Only shoot to kill if we can kill them reasonably easily, or we mysteriously have mana to burn. At the very end of Prepared Effect on Night 36 (Last turn of Danmaku RM), drop it, then raise Twelve Syllable Seals. 2nd turn of Twelve Syllable Seals, use Blink on whoever's being the most annoying. Drops on night 38, bring Duplex (defense) back up, and start spamming any remaining bombs to disrupt.

Overall, our best field to work in is Field control. We have more than enough ability to control all 3 available fields in a given area, which of course means someone else can't do as they please. Bombs should be saved until Tolerance except for emergencies, and from then until the last few turns after Twelve Syllable Seals drops. All in all, our goal should be to survive and be in the best condition possible for when Tolerance starts, and hopefully be as far as possible from anyone else when that happens, but until then, try and kill as many other teams as possible: we're not surviving a week with 6 teams trying to kill us and only us. Best case scenario is to ally with one team, get it down to 3 teams (us, ally, and another team), and drag it out til Tolerance only has a few turns left til it starts, then bail so we can be far away from the teams when Tolerance starts (and, if we're lucky, have one less team to worry about).
Edited by Supremezero, Feb 4 2012, 01:00 AM.
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Ririchiyo
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The infinite movement thing seems like too much exploiting though I think. I doubt it would even be allowed.
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Supremezero
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Questions for soul will be here, so he doesn't dig through up there (though, first I have to remind myself of those questions):

Are bombs actually supposed to be able to be both Magical and Physical?

Are people informed during Tolerance that they no longer need a bomb to breach Twelve Syllable Seals?

Randomly, why does Hakurei Amulets, which specifically comment on how they hit regardless of focus due to homing, have a higher graze reduction than something else? More to the point, why is the other skill that has homing cursed with gigantic 60% graze if that's what Homing is for?

... that's about it for the moment.



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Supremezero
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Incidentally, I don't know that I need to say this, but if we have a chance to win without using Tolerance, we should probably take it. Victory via Tolerance is awesome and all, but it'd suck to lose just because we let things go just for the awesome.
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Soul Devour
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Supremezero
Feb 4 2012, 01:07 AM
Questions for soul will be here, so he doesn't dig through up there (though, first I have to remind myself of those questions):

Are bombs actually supposed to be able to be both Magical and Physical?

Are people informed during Tolerance that they no longer need a bomb to breach Twelve Syllable Seals?

Randomly, why does Hakurei Amulets, which specifically comment on how they hit regardless of focus due to homing, have a higher graze reduction than something else? More to the point, why is the other skill that has homing cursed with gigantic 60% graze if that's what Homing is for?

... that's about it for the moment.



Bombs are Magical damage.

There's nothing to inform people of, they can freely move in and out of Twelve Syllable Seals if Tolerance is in effect.

...I'm gonna pretend you didn't type that out. Homing =/= automatic clean hit. If I fire a giant homing laser laser at you that moves at 1 mph, you'll be able to dodge it until you pass out from sleep.
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Supremezero
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Soul Devour
Feb 4 2012, 01:38 AM
There's nothing to inform people of, they can freely move in and out of Twelve Syllable Seals if Tolerance is in effect.

...I'm gonna pretend you didn't type that out. Homing =/= automatic clean hit. If I fire a giant homing laser laser at you that moves at 1 mph, you'll be able to dodge it until you pass out from sleep.
For Twelve Syllable Seals, they normally have to use a bomb to enter. The issue is whether or not they'd be informed that this is no longer true during Tolerance.

As for Hakurei Amulet, that was a joke in the first place, but my point still stands!

Description: Reimu blasts a target with her special homing amulets, which are guaranteed to strike the target regardless of whether they are focused or not.

Oh, and is that "Infinite movement as long as you aren't seen or heard or whatever" that people were joking about a while back actually possible?

For the glorious benefit of Ririchiyo, I'll post the answers here with my clearly amazing powers of foresight!: They will be informed that they no longer need to use a bomb to enter if they were informed otherwise before. And infinite movement isn't possible. Guess I'll have to think of something different if the timed movement isn't reliable. Though, since Soul says that Permanent Border can tell us the exact luck and agi point during movement when people trigger it, it seems fine.
Edited by Supremezero, Feb 4 2012, 02:07 AM.
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Ririchiyo
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I was kind of wondering about the homing skills too but I just chalked it up to game mechanics.

And wait. Permanent Border tells us those stats? It doesn't say so in the description I think. Unless we're just assuming by things like order of arrival or something?

Good to have you back by the way.
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Supremezero
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I just asked. Convenience and all that.
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Ririchiyo
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Ah wow you ended up using a lot of what I said. I guess it was pretty good then? I am glad for that.

I like your use of shorthand and I will remember it in the future.
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Supremezero
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Actually, you walked us into a corner. So what can be done is limited. Though this map is filled with corners in the first place.
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Ririchiyo
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So what's your strategy for right now anyway? I am wondering because I want to know the intent behind moves so I can understand our grand strategy in case you are gone at some point. Have our allies contacted you at all any more?
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Supremezero
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They can't. They're not in the same area. Anyway, I WANTED to get down to the Human Village for the defense bonuses, but it's rather clear that the Item Shop's busy at the moment. So I'll settle for Misty Lake instead. Also, that way we can get Permanent Border's at two of the Item Shop's exits, so we can have an idea when/if someone leaves.
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Ririchiyo
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When you say busy do you mean people are fighting at the Item Shop? I figured Okuu is there because of the sun thing but I'm not sure if they're fighting. It might be an opportunity to coordinate more or help someone out to get in their good graces.
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Supremezero
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Right, not going to make a move tonight, Simpsons more important. You can if you want, though.
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Ririchiyo
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Oh I was just going to ask if you were.

Well I will but it'll probably be similar to yours and what we've done before. Just staying out of trouble and waiting for tolerance.

Should we just camp?
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Ririchiyo
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I was thinking maybe go to Misty Lake to set a premanent border up so that we know if people are coming our way. Then camping at the mansion or the forest.
Edited by Ririchiyo, Feb 7 2012, 06:33 PM.
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Supremezero
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... seeing as you haven't been around AT ALL since I got home to answer my (and apparently Gravy's) questions, I'm going to humbly request a delay.
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Soul Devour
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Er, I was in class for the last 3 hours and I was on from 11 until 4. Where are these questions by the way? I see nothing PM'd to me on ZB or Gamefaqs and nothing was posted here either.
Edited by Soul Devour, Feb 8 2012, 08:51 PM.
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Ririchiyo
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Aahh oh god I forgot a move I'm so so so so sorry I forgot to check!

Is there really going to be a delay or what or do I still have time to put one in?

What is this stuff that gravy and supreme are talking about? I wasn't part of it so I don't understand...
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Supremezero
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Soul Devour
Feb 8 2012, 08:38 PM
Er, I was in class for the last 3 hours and I was on from 11 until 4. Where are these questions by the way? I see nothing PM'd to me on ZB or Gamefaqs and nothing was posted here either.
Of course not, asking questions offline is simply idiotic when one question leads into another.
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Ririchiyo
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If someone could please tell me what is going on that would be nice.
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Supremezero
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You could fix your problems to a certain extent by the simple expedient of getting AIM.
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Ririchiyo
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I would really rather not becuase I tend to be gone more often than not and I also do not like it.

A forum post alone would be great and good for future referencing too.
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Ririchiyo
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Arrrgh well I can't stick aropund for a while now, I have to do something fora little bit.

I assume since you're here you can post the move if it isn't a delay.

I wish I knew about the questions at least.
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Ririchiyo
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Alright so what is the game plan for today? Also tomorrow make sure you leave me with some idea what to do since you won't be here. Tahnks.
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Supremezero
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Basically like that. I'll probably just post a tentative move after status comes out tonight.
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Supremezero
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There is no such thing as society.
Lo and behold, the result when one tries communication via PM...
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Ririchiyo
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I don't have PMs in this account or in gamefaqs if youre talking about me...
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