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Topic Started: Feb 16 2010, 07:17 PM (9,109 Views)
guild525
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Screw the Rules CS has to be first and Assassin is willing to help us still since they know we can hardly be held responsible for what happened since they didn't know either. We can essentially do what Lancer did and give Rider two CSes.
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Cross_Blade
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I'll be gone for a bit but that 2 CS thing sounds like a good plan.

Yeah, also tell Assassin that, sorry for the damage
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 10 2010, 05:05 PM.
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guild525
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Yeah, I did. I wish there was a way to amend what just happened...
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Cross_Blade
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Do we have our moves posted?
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guild525
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Nope. They're due tomorrow because of no update.
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Cross_Blade
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Ah, fair enough
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guild525
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Hm, I wonder if absorbing Assassin and Lelouch's corpses are free actions. I hope so..
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Psi
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It's not; just like with civilians, you get no other actions if you choose to consume a Player.
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Cross_Blade
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Does the AoE from Red Demon's incinerate the corpses?
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Cross_Blade
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I won't be on later but my suggestion is any of the two moves from before. Also since we can double CS, I say we use "Screw the Rules" and "Focus on Magical Defense". Since we have to shuffle masters I hope this works
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guild525
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Cross_Blade
Apr 11 2010, 10:45 PM
I won't be on later but my suggestion is any of the two moves from before. Also since we can double CS, I say we use "Screw the Rules" and "Focus on Magical Defense". Since we have to shuffle masters I hope this works
I was actually thinking Focus on Endurance now that Archer is out of mana.
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Psi
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From now on, I'll be doing my best to point out inconsistencies as they arise.

For this turn's move:
- When you say 'if the alliance does nothing', are you referring to the enemy teams, or your allies?

- The meteor-rain ability of RDA activates on summon. Meaning, you can't do it this turn, unless you de-summon and then re-summon it (paying the 120 mana again).
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guild525
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PsionBolt
Apr 12 2010, 04:20 PM
From now on, I'll be doing my best to point out inconsistencies as they arise.

For this turn's move:
- When you say 'if the alliance does nothing', are you referring to the enemy teams, or your allies?

- The meteor-rain ability of RDA activates on summon. Meaning, you can't do it this turn, unless you de-summon and then re-summon it (paying the 120 mana again).
Enemy team.

So that means Red Demon's can't meteor AT ALL unless we resummon it? Even if we have an active phase action?
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Psi
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As far as I understand, that is correct. If I were to make a move right now, I would treat it as such.

The description reads "upon summoning"... Although, as you know, Flaming Fire made most of your abilities. I don't think I'm misreading this one, but it is possible.
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guild525
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Eh, alright. The anti-army kind of gives too much trouble anyway..
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guild525
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Actually wait, on further inspection, wasn't the original NP raining Meteors per turn as well..? I'm kind of doubtful Rider's NP doesn't rain meteors a turn seeing as how crappy it would be otherwise.
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Psi
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I don't know about originally, but right now it's pretty clear.
EX Agility isn't anything to sneeze at, either; I think that's the main thing, not the attacks.
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guild525
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Well, alright. Seeing as how the agility can't be reduced and it gives 25% evasion to melee attacks I guess it's fine =/.
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Cross_Blade
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Alright, move looks good. Too bad about the no meteors thing but I guess we'll make due. What's your opinion on a retreat soon?
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guild525
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I was actually thinking they might retreat soon. Archer apparently can't regain mana unless they kill a civilian or something. I think Lancer and Caster are near their breaking point too.
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Cross_Blade
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Alright, then it's do or die I guess
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guild525
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Pretty much.
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guild525
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This is an explanation for the GM on why we wouldn't do anything else besides have Rider's Master tank had we been informed the NP hit allies as well. I know the general idea of Assassin's NP and how if they get hit or take damage (they didn't specify and tell us the exact clause but we know it's one or the other) it's negated.

Rider was at 99 Health the turn before so using a Magic Card was absolutely necessary to ensure our survival in our eyes at the time. All the other offensive actions are not only inferior in raw damage to our NP but take a support action. This support action is what we needed to use the Magic Card which makes it improbable to use any other offensive action without healing ourselves which in our eyes would be suicide. CQC is the only exception but we all know that lacks damage and gives Lelouch the chance to use a skill on the active phase. His sheet wasn't revealed until after making it completely unviable to give him a chance. (We didn't want to give him the opportunity to use unknown broken skill X)

And I'm just going to note, if you think we were under the thought process that we could take multiple actions on everyone, you're correct. However, that was on the NP mount. There was no chance in hell we'd bank on extra actions on the bike mount.

And I still suggest a partial redo, my argument on it has been posted several times and I don't see why it isn't an option. Anyway, just consider it please...

The possible offensive actions:

Basic Attacks:
CQC - E:
Strength + 1 melee damage, reduced by foe's Endurance.

Bike-fu - C:
Only usable while riding D-Wheel.
Agility + 10 melee damage, reduced by foe's Endurance.

Summon Monster - D~A - x times 50 mana:
Call upon your trusty deck to reveal allies, each with specific skills. Only one of each monster may be active at one time; if Red Dragon Archfiend is summoned, all other monsters are dismissed. The Monsters have no HP, but are only destroyed if they are attacked by someone with a higher Strength stat than them; when a Monster is killed, Rider takes damage equal to the amount that the foe's Strength exceeded the Monster's (using the Offensive Rank Values).

x=1: Ogre of the Scarlet Sorrow: If you are attacked twice in the same turn, you may summon this creature immediately with no Mana cost, and stays on for four turns. Has Strength of C+ and Agility B, Luck B+
x=2: Twin-Sword Marauder: Summoned for three turns: Has two attacks per turn. First is a pure Strength technique with Strength of B+15 damage, lowered by Endurance. Second attack is a Magical Energy attack of C+15 damage. Attacks must target two different people. Agility is C++ and Luck is D
x=3: Mad Archfiend. Summoned for two turns. Attacks using Strength of C. Bypasses Endurance completely, but is affected by all curses and lowering of stats to Strength for the two turns. May only be summoned once a battle. Agility is B+ and Luck is C
x=4: Exploder Dragonwing: Stays on the Field 2 turns. Has Strength A and Agility B+++, Luck C. Must have a monster already on the field for a sacrifice to summon. When in battle, if Dragonwing attacks a creature with less Luck than it, Endurance is taken down one rank and a subrank for the attack.

Activate Trap Card - D~A - x times 30 mana:
Support Type
Sets a trap in any area which can later be activated during any phase. Deals unblockable, unreduceable damage with additional effects based on the value chosen for x:

x=1: Deals 25 to one target.
x=2: Deals 40 and hits all targets in the area.
x=3: Deals 60 to all targets and lowers all stats by - for three turns.
x=4: Deals 75 and saps 5% of the mana

Noble Phantasm:

Red Dragon Archfiend - A - 120 mana:
Anti-Army Type
Summon and ride your strongest monster, the great Red Dragon. Raises your Agility to EX and allows you to attack first this turn. Upon summoning, rains fire from the sky for 100 ranged damage to all foes in the area, reduced by foes' Magical Defense; any follow-up attacks (due to an Agility difference) deal 60 melee damage, reduced by foe's Endurance. After the turn summoned, can be kept on for extra turns by paying an upkeep of 60 mana and 40 health.
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Psi
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If I do any kind of partial redo at all, the only change I'm considering right now would be to have Derek tank Red Dragon Archfiend for Assassin - since that's the only thing I could see you having changed that turn from having only one piece of additional knowledge: "RDA hits my allies".

I'm starting to consider this option seriously, so tell me now if that single change would be acceptable to you. It's (probably) the only partial redo I'd accept.
Edited by Psi, Apr 14 2010, 02:51 PM.
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guild525
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PsionBolt
Apr 14 2010, 02:45 PM
If I do any kind of partial redo at all, the only change I'm considering right now would be to have Derek tank Red Dragon Archfiend for Assassin - since that's the only thing I could see you having changed that turn from having only one piece of additional knowledge: "RDA hits my allies".
That's all we wanted to begin with...
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Psi
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It is acceptable, then? I can go ahead with and announce that change?
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guild525
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PsionBolt
Apr 14 2010, 02:52 PM
It is acceptable, then? I can go ahead with and announce that change?
Yes.
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guild525
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Cross, I hope you know that there is a serious problem. Depletion Garden apparently eats 50 mana a turn. This is going to hurt us real badly.... There's no real way to get it down unless we can override it which Assassin won't have the chance to even if we give them the mana. This is becoming real bad...
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Cross_Blade
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Sorry I haven't been on much, exams and all that stuff :(

Damn, I had a feeling Depletion Garden would be real annoying but on the other hand, I bet it hits EVERYONE whether ally or foe since it's a Bounded Field. Here's my opinion


Last turn, no one had any mana burn on us. If we walk around with 94 HP we will probably get beaten. Derek can heal since it's free (hurray!!). Summon Ogre of the Scarlet Sorrow since he tanked pretty well for us against Orange so his free summon should prove invaluable after we got hit twice at least last turn. If possible comsume a master or servant as well for 50% max mana.

Priority should go to consuming the master or servant over summoning Scarlet Sorrow since I believe with 2 command spells and Derek's heal, Rider won't die then I can just use the mana I got from the corpse to Magic Card 2 and heal myself

After it tanks, we attempt to end the battle for next turn since we can't run away when the field is up (unless you have a way to). We still have Red Demon's so his help should be extremely useful

Obviously include the 2 command spells thing no matter what plan is used.
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 12:40 AM.
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guild525
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Cross_Blade
Apr 15 2010, 12:19 AM
Sorry I haven't been on much, exams and all that stuff :(

Damn, I had a feeling Depletion Garden would be real annoying but on the other hand, I bet it hits EVERYONE whether ally or foe since it's a Bounded Field. Here's my opinion


Last turn, no one had any mana burn on us. If we walk around with 94 HP we will probably get beaten. Derek can heal since it's free (hurray!!). Summon Ogre of the Scarlet Sorrow since he tanked pretty well for us against Orange so his free summon should prove invaluable after we got hit twice at least last turn. If possible comsume a master or servant as well for 50% max mana.

Priority should go to consuming the master or servant over summoning Scarlet Sorrow since I believe with 2 command spells and Derek's heal, Rider won't die then I can just use the mana I got from the corpse to Magic Card 2 and heal myself

After it tanks, we attempt to end the battle for next turn since we can't run away when the field is up (unless you have a way to). We still have Red Demon's so his help should be extremely useful

Obviously include the 2 command spells thing no matter what plan is used.
Assassin probably is looking for a way out. They have less than the 50 threshold and are looking for options to survive the mana death. Archer likely won't survive either. I'm actually thinking dismounting Red Demons might not be bad here since we can get the D-Wheel which has cheaper heals and apparently Berserker is apparently planning to suicide us for 150 mana. We should probably be mountless by the end of this turn if it really does burn 50. I'm not sure if it does though which is the problem...
Edited by guild525, Apr 15 2010, 12:43 AM.
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Cross_Blade
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guild525
Apr 15 2010, 12:43 AM
Cross_Blade
Apr 15 2010, 12:19 AM
Sorry I haven't been on much, exams and all that stuff :(

Damn, I had a feeling Depletion Garden would be real annoying but on the other hand, I bet it hits EVERYONE whether ally or foe since it's a Bounded Field. Here's my opinion


Last turn, no one had any mana burn on us. If we walk around with 94 HP we will probably get beaten. Derek can heal since it's free (hurray!!). Summon Ogre of the Scarlet Sorrow since he tanked pretty well for us against Orange so his free summon should prove invaluable after we got hit twice at least last turn. If possible comsume a master or servant as well for 50% max mana.

Priority should go to consuming the master or servant over summoning Scarlet Sorrow since I believe with 2 command spells and Derek's heal, Rider won't die then I can just use the mana I got from the corpse to Magic Card 2 and heal myself

After it tanks, we attempt to end the battle for next turn since we can't run away when the field is up (unless you have a way to). We still have Red Demon's so his help should be extremely useful

Obviously include the 2 command spells thing no matter what plan is used.
Assassin probably is looking for a way out. They have less than the 50 threshold and are looking for options to survive the mana death. Archer likely won't survive either. I'm actually thinking dismounting Red Demons might not be bad here since we can get the D-Wheel which has cheaper heals and apparently Berserker is apparently planning to suicide us for 150 mana. We should probably be mountless by the end of this turn if it really does burn 50. I'm not sure if it does though which is the problem...
Key factors or moves to my plan:

Rider:
Health: 99.8/210 (+50%, +25, +10, -65.5, -44.7)
Mana: 104.5/290 (+10.5, -50, -120)

Derek:
Health: 100/160
Mana: 0/200 (-100 x2)

Antibiotic Gel Application - E - no mana cost:
Support Type
Applies a strange-smelling green medical goop directly to a target's wounds, curing bleed effects and healing them by 10 health. Cannot be used two actions in a row.

Antibiotic Injection - C - no mana cost:
Support Type
Injects a syringe of green goop into one target, healing them by 25 health. Cannot be used two actions in a row.


Rider doing nothing is fine is my opinion for one turn. I still say we keep Red Demon's for the EX Agi to guarantee a corpse consumption. Of course this involves a "Screw the Rules" CS. With another CS, I'm guessing "Focus on Endurance", we should be able to survive if Derek can heal 10+25= 35. I'm assuming someone there has a high enough agility (A+ minuimum) to prevent us from two rounding them last turn or else this would be over so fast. Remember, most of that damage last turn was from Lelouch who is now dead and I think Archer and Lancer used their NPs already, Black Cannon and whatever owned Saber. I think we're actually at an advantage....and that Depletion Garden furthers it since there's a corpse for me with EX agility (it doesn't get any higher)
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 12:53 AM.
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guild525
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Cross_Blade
 
Key factors or moves to my plan:

Rider:
Health: 99.8/210 (+50%, +25, +10, -65.5, -44.7)
Mana: 104.5/290 (+10.5, -50, -120)

Derek:
Health: 100/160
Mana: 0/200 (-100 x2)

Antibiotic Gel Application - E - no mana cost:
Support Type
Applies a strange-smelling green medical goop directly to a target's wounds, curing bleed effects and healing them by 10 health. Cannot be used two actions in a row.

Antibiotic Injection - C - no mana cost:
Support Type
Injects a syringe of green goop into one target, healing them by 25 health. Cannot be used two actions in a row.


Rider doing nothing is fine is my opinion for one turn. I still say we keep Red Demon's for the EX Agi to guarantee a corpse consumption. Of course this involves a "Screw the Rules" CS. With another CS, I'm guessing "Focus on Endurance", we should be able to survive if Derek can heal 10+25= 35. I'm assuming someone there has a high enough agility (A+ minuimum) to prevent us from two rounding them last turn or else this would be over so fast. Remember, most of that damage last turn was from Lelouch who is now dead and I think Archer and Lancer used their NPs already, Black Cannon and whatever owned Saber. I think we're actually at an advantage....and that Depletion Garden furthers it since there's a corpse for me with EX agility (it doesn't get any higher)
Well, granted that I don't really know if the Obey My Command at all Cost CS does even speed up the consumption of a civilian. I'll agree Archer and Assassin are dead which may or may not benefit us. With Lelouch out of the way, that leaves Lancer, Caster, and Berserker. The real problem is though that if Berserker suicides us, and we don't get that corpse; we're screwed. If a CS can affect that corpse, we'll actually have to dismount Red Demons or take the hit in HP and Mana. I'm not certain if it's possible, but it is a possibility.

I do agree that we're probably one of the servants benefiting from this, but Avenger actually isn't in the Reality Marble and are camping outside to wait for whoever survives and go for the kill since Berserker just wants this war to end apparently according to them. They might be lying to benefit themselves though, but it is kind of believable that an RM like this would burn 50 mana...
Edited by guild525, Apr 15 2010, 01:01 AM.
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guild525
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I'll probably need to downsize on the quoting :S.

And done. Damn [/ quote]'s in the text :\.
Edited by guild525, Apr 15 2010, 01:02 AM.
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Cross_Blade
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Command Spells:

Masters get three each at the beginning of the game. Command Spells may be transferred between Players who are in agreement as a Free Action; they may also be forcefully taken from a recently-dead corpse (with the same two-turn window as consumption, above). Transferring Command Spells does not transfer contracts, so they must be re-made. When a Master runs out of Command Spells, their contract breaks, and they cannot re-contract unless they get at least one new Command Spell. One Command Spell per turn may be used to provide a special effect, after which it disappears: possible effects are below.

"Focus on x!"
Raises stat x, chosen by the user, to EX for one turn.

"Give It Your All!"
Raises all stats one rank for the battle's entire duration. Stats raised this way cannot reach EX; any stat A or above receives +++, even if that exceeds A+++.

"Do As I Say!"
Overrides a Servant's actions with those chosen by their Master.

"Shake It Off!"
Removes all debuffs, status ailments, and other negative effects.

"Return to Spirit Form!"
Forces a Servant into Spirit Form, even if they are in combat.

"Get Over Here!"
Instantly teleports a Servant to their Master's side, also forcing them into Corporeal Form.

"Screw The Rules!"
Negates specific clauses regarding the use of certain skills; things like an HP requirement or needing the presence of a familiar, for example. Ask for clarification if necessary.



Don't see an "Obey My Command" CS....unless you mean the "Do as I say" CS which doesn't sound like it would speed up anything
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 01:03 AM.
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guild525
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"Do As I Say" would fit it. I'm wondering if that speeds up the action of the servant to CS-speed or if it just makes them do what you say.

Edit: Well, I guess it WAS an unneeded concern. I'm actually thinking our nightly move currently would probably be largely unchanged. The only thing I can think of is that we won't have to rely on Assassin's Master this time.
Edited by guild525, Apr 15 2010, 01:05 AM.
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Cross_Blade
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Fair enough and I see you posted that as a question. Good call
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guild525
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Thing is, I'm not going to be online when he answers the question probably....Can you change the moves if you're going to be online when he answers the question and if it impedes our move in anyway?
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Cross_Blade
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Well, you never know. It doesn't hurt to be safe
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Cross_Blade
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We should probably add a conditional to what happens incase we can't steal the corpse.
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guild525
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Agreed.
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Cross_Blade
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Hmm....seems that Saber's corpse is the only one on the field since Lelouch's was used to get Command Spells unless I'm mistaken.

Chances are I won't be on in time for the update tomorrow but I'll try
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guild525
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Corpses vanish in two nights. Also, it doesn't say a corpse disappears when you rob CSes off of it nor does it make any sense it.

And sorry for skipping out on you, was booted off my computer for a bit :(.
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Cross_Blade
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Has Saber's corpse been dead for 2 turns?

Also, no problem. I understand.

EDIT: You should add summon Scarlet incase we can't take the corpse
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 10:28 AM.
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guild525
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Cross_Blade
Apr 15 2010, 10:26 AM
Has Saber's corpse been dead for 2 turns?

Also, no problem. I understand.

EDIT: You should add summon Scarlet incase we can't take the corpse
Yeah. It'll be disppear by this turn. Lelouch died last turn so we can absorb him at least.
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guild525
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Addendum to the move. Cross you're correct we should summon Ogre if we get hit twice :P.
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guild525
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Maybe we should attack Berserker to see if we can get them to waste mana so this lasts a turn less?
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Cross_Blade
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Hmm....well, since Psi said consumption is based off Agi, we have EX agi which is a great feat in itself. I am fairly confident we can get the corpse first. If we get the corpse and Depletion drains mana from everyone, I say let them keep it up since it'll harm everyone in the mana department and we can keep snatching corpses with Red Demon's as more and more people fall to Depletion

EDIT: Scarlet should be done as a conditional if we can't take the corpse, the corpse has top priority. Additionally, I thought there was a break the contract at the start unless it was changed?
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 03:09 PM.
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Cross_Blade
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Hmm...since our HP went up by around 50, I'm really confident we can afford to snatch a corpse this turn even if it means doing nothing
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guild525
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Yeah, especially with the no cost heal.


I changed it because Assassin is likely going to CS to Spirit Form to attempt to live since Regeneration is in Upkeep and they're lacking mana.

If they died, it'd probably work.

Anyway, what are we going to do about after we get out of the RM? I think we're one of the teams who'll make it out no question unless the Church Alliance doesn't realize they have to gun for Berserker.
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Cross_Blade
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Depends on our HP and mana, who's left and how bad we think they're dead. Avenger is outside and since we can't meteor, the Stakes may clobber us. I say we will likely have to run to back alley to recover then when we can either hole up or go fighting some people if the opportunity looks good enough

EDIT: I think you're right on Assassin where she will try to survive herself using her own CS so when we use "Screw the Rules", we should be fine since we have this new HP upkeep and a high chance to dodge things.
Edited by Cross_Blade, Apr 15 2010, 03:50 PM.
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