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A crisis of faith; Disintrest in the Gods
Topic Started: Oct 20 2012, 08:21 AM (1,174 Views)
1000heathens
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Anti-Hero
I've lost the faith, brothers.

I've been playing Chaos since it's 2nd Codex with my DIY Ironbound CSM's. 3.0 and 3.5 came out, and I practically screamed for joy as I rifled through the fluff and army lists, psyched out of my mind for the awesome stuff therein. The despised version 4 came out, and though I felt like GeeDub had screwed my army, I presevered and fell back on Chaos's extensive fluff, even started the beginnings of a second chaos army of pirates and renegades. Which brings us to my current crisis...

I finally got the Codex. I avoided the B&C's bitch-fest 2012 so as to not sour my opinion.I poured over the codex a dozen times. Still, I feel gutted, inspiration-wise. I got nuthin. I don't even have intrest in keeping my current CSM army, and I feel nothing about abandoning an army I have cherished for over a decade through thick and thin.

What say you? Does the new Codex bring anything fresh into your mind? Have I lost my mind? Am I just burnt out on Chaos? :dead:
+++No Gods, No Masters+++
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Kol_Saresk
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Yes and no. The new daemon engines are okay. It's more like they bring the options to create new daemon engines fluffwise. But a lot of it is redundant. Like the Warp Talons. To me, their fluff is exactly the impression that I've always had of the Raptors. Meanwhile, the Raptors got what I always thought of the Night Lords and the Night Lords get to be big scary monsters who go "Ooga booga!" And are covered in warp lightning like walking roman candles or something.

The Abyss Crusade was somewhat neat. Again, opens possibilities for creativity.

But the general impression is that Chaos seems to have become one-dimensional. No more pirates, no more freedom fighters, no more people fighting Chaos with Chaos, no more nothing. Just, servitude. Even the Night Lords seem to have lost their fluff of using Chaos as a weapon to become powerful and set the galaxy on fire for no other purpose than to watch it burn. But look at them now.

Look at the Iron Warriors. They used to be warriors who had been beaten and torn apart, held together by hate and bitterness. They sought power from the warp and acknowledged the Gods their due. But they welcomed none of their "gifts". While the list building took a beating in 4th, the fluff for the most part survived, but now they are nothing more than people who carry big guns and go "Give me your gifts!"

To be honest, the way everyone was talking about Phil Kelley, I did expect more. Don't know what, but more. As it is, even to someone inexperienced in game play like me, it looks leap and bounds better than 4th. But it looks like the fluff took a beating along the way. And it sort of confirms, to me, that maybe the Codex authors have less control over the future of the fluff than we thought.
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"Sons of our father, stand in midnight clad. We bring the night."
"This is Sevatar to the fleet. Let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I am not losing to these pious, honour-fuelled, frock-wearing whoresons twice in the same month. Focus all fire on the Invincible Reason. They crippled our primarch. Let's return the favour."
-- It saw print!
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Noctus Cornix
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The Nameless Monster
As I know how near and dear you are to your Iron Warriors, I'll tune my response as much as I can to them.

So, as you know, I love this new codex. Blah blah blah, dribble dribble, you get the idea. One thing I will say though is that this codex really does make chaos space Marines into what I always wanted them to be, and this goes for all of the legions. Anyone can tell you that before this codex, I hated the Black Legion with a violent passion. They were just the chaos Smurfs who just so happened to be the largest group and have the worst losing streak... But with this new codex, I absolutely love the guys. Its just the small subtle bitz here and there that really give this authentic feel that owns the title Black Crusader. They don't feel like a bunch of failures anymore. They have purpose. They have a future.

Now, as for the iron warriors, I see a massive opportunity for so many conversions. I remember you mentioning to me how much you loved Titanicus and the way the dark mechanicum was featured. Why not draw on that? I know that you don't really like the helldrake or the hell fiends but they're stats leave so many opportunities for you to create your own monstrosities and siege weapons.

You also told me about how much you love the concept of WWI era trench warfare. Why not draw on that too? Create siege weapons and daemon engines that fit to the design of the trenches. Have your chaos Marines wading through mud and barbed wire as they slaughter imperial guard and cultists with equal callousness.

There's just so much potential man, and I know that you of all people could master it.

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"Home?... Heh... We can't go home... There's a line men like us have to cross... If we're lucky... We do what's necessary then we die... No... No all I really want, Captain.... Is peace...." Posted Image
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Noctus Cornix
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The Nameless Monster
I'm sorry for the double post and I'm sorry Kol but I have to completely disagree with you on this 'one dimensional' idea. You might want to read over the fluff section again because there's a ton of fluff you're missing over. No pirates? There's an entire section about chaos renegades on page 15 and then they bring up the astral claws on page 16. No freedom fighters? To be frank this is a bit unfair. There's basically never been any 'Freedom fighter' concept in the chaos codexes since this codex. Which I would direct you to the cleaved who are also on page 16. If you read their little fluff section, that basically spells 'good guy chaos marine' to me.

Once again, referring to the Iron Warriors, it mentions in their fluff box that they trust the weapon in their hands and basically nothing else. That right there tells you they have little in the way of love fore invisible gods and couldn't care about anything but themselves.

I honestly don't understand what you're getting at because it's all there in the book.
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"Home?... Heh... We can't go home... There's a line men like us have to cross... If we're lucky... We do what's necessary then we die... No... No all I really want, Captain.... Is peace...." Posted Image
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Kol_Saresk
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Talonmaster
Sorry, accidentally hit the post button. To continue my thought.

Despite all of this dreary darkness, there is light at the end of the tunnel. While the fluff that is in there is somewhat one-dimensional, it allows for room to move beyond the strictures that were normally on the Legions. Ironically. They give baselines for the personality, but not the way the Legions worked like 3.5 did. I've said it once and I'll say it again, this takes the viability of 3.5 and put it together with the freedom of 4. And by freedom, I mean ability to make and do what you want with the fluff and minis.

You can make an army of pirates and renegades. Actually, Akan's Reavers have a possibility of existing outside of the Tyrant's Legion. Your Chaos Lord HQ, two squads of Chosen Elite and then your Cultist base with whatever you want in FA and HS. And it be tournament legal! Or you can use it to do narrative campaigns without lookin for approval to use Forgeworld supplements. Or whatever else you can think of.
Posted ImagePosted Image
"Sons of our father, stand in midnight clad. We bring the night."
"This is Sevatar to the fleet. Let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I am not losing to these pious, honour-fuelled, frock-wearing whoresons twice in the same month. Focus all fire on the Invincible Reason. They crippled our primarch. Let's return the favour."
-- It saw print!
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1000heathens
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The Daemon Engines were an awesome idea (I'm a huuuuuge fan of Dan Abnetts' Titanicus), but I feel like they were executed poorly. I've heard the 'dinosaur' comment a bajillion times, but to me, they look like the Khorne Juggernaut's big brother... which is actually worse. Like, they couldn't even come up with something original, and fell back on that style. And DO NOT get me started on the Helldrake.... I play 40k for a friggin' reason, keep fantasy warhammer where it's supposed to be please, GeeDub.

The Warp Talons were another cool idea in practice, but yeah, they're basically just Raptors with lightning claws. Not really creative, again.

All the special Characters are the same. Seriously, what the hell? This was they opportunity to create some gnarly badasses, and instead we get the same dudes all over again. *yawn*

Warpsmith. Awesome. One bit of the new 'dex I love.

Dark Apostle, cool. But, I have no intrest in an evil preacher, never did.

Cultists. Thumbs up, and about damn time.

Chaos Dreadnought, which I refuse to call by it's new stupid name. Great, It can't shoot me now. Thanks for being 2 codex's late, guys.

Mutilator. Pretty boring, to be honest, both fluff and rules.

Possessed are cooler, though their rules are only slightly better than they used to be. I really miss their old 3.5 rules, these guys were as dangerous as they're supposed to be.

Cult marines. *shrug* I'm an undivided guy, never really used 'em. I remain unconcerned with them.

and on and on. Honestly, I'm not trying to turn this into a "complain" thread, just explaining why I'm having such a hard time liking this codex in any way. Only a handful of the stories were cool, and of those, none really triggered any inspration, like Constinatius the Liberator, or the Fall of Vilamus, or even that tiny little story next to the possessed entry in the 2nd ed codex (which is what got me into Chaos in the first place)
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1000heathens
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Damn, you guys post fast, lol. I was still responding to Kol's first post. :D
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Noctus Cornix
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The Nameless Monster
And im posting from my phone too. ;)

fastest thumbs in the west....
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"Home?... Heh... We can't go home... There's a line men like us have to cross... If we're lucky... We do what's necessary then we die... No... No all I really want, Captain.... Is peace...." Posted Image
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Kol_Saresk
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Talonmaster
Alot of my impressions are coming from Treacheries of the Space Marines. The first one, the Warsmith is basically the new Hellbrute.

And the Red Corsairs are more like Black Legion Jr. Simply throwing "piratical" into the description doesn't exactly work. It needs a personality and flavor. It needs to be more than just an adjective in a sentence.

It's not that the Codex doesn't say it, it's the impression it gives. The focus is melding the warp with reality. Putting daemon, man and machine in the exact same place. That's great. But other than copying and pasting a small section from 4th about how to be different, that's all there is. At least they improved a little of the fluff for the Chapters introduced in 4th.
Edited by Kol_Saresk, Oct 20 2012, 09:16 AM.
Posted ImagePosted Image
"Sons of our father, stand in midnight clad. We bring the night."
"This is Sevatar to the fleet. Let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I am not losing to these pious, honour-fuelled, frock-wearing whoresons twice in the same month. Focus all fire on the Invincible Reason. They crippled our primarch. Let's return the favour."
-- It saw print!
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Kol_Saresk
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Talonmaster
Noctus Cornix
Oct 20 2012, 09:05 AM
And im posting from my phone too. ;)

fastest thumbs in the west....
Same here.
Posted ImagePosted Image
"Sons of our father, stand in midnight clad. We bring the night."
"This is Sevatar to the fleet. Let me be clear, brothers and sisters. I am not losing to these pious, honour-fuelled, frock-wearing whoresons twice in the same month. Focus all fire on the Invincible Reason. They crippled our primarch. Let's return the favour."
-- It saw print!
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