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| Tweet Topic Started: Jun 23 2012, 04:02 AM (1,145 Views) | |
| Araziel | Jun 25 2012, 04:19 PM Post #11 |
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We are Death, the bringers of despair.
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Depending on the actual wording of the allied rules, they could be great or horrible. We'll just have to wait and see! An example I'm thinking of is combining Codex Daemons with Codex CSM. Now, I've seen on B+C in the Chaos Legio that apparantly, Epidemus buffs "all units with the Mark of Nurgle to have a 3+ Feel no Pain save, and their attacks count as though equipped with power weapons". I have no idea if it is true or not, not owning the Daemon codex and all. But it got me thinking. Feel no Pain has been reduced to a 5+ save now, although I believe you can still use it against any power weapon attacks, against anything that doesn't deal Instant Death. Now, what happens if I take my Plague Marine army (where everything has the Mark of Nurgle), and add in Epidemus? If the rules aren't worded correctly and definitively enough, that means that everything in my army will have a 3+ armour save AND a 3+ Feel no Pain save (each of these saves alone providing me with a 66% chance of passing. But oh, I get two...). Not to mention the power weapon attacks... and I can buy cover now. So I can sit my Plague Marines behind cover, most likely with Icarus Lascannon to shoot at flyers and deep striking units, and then my opponent is going to have one HELL of a time digging me out. I'd like to point out that I in no way intend to do this (well - maybe. For when I play against power gamers!), I'm just pointing out how bad the idea of allies could be. I also realise that I don't actually know the rules for Epidemus in my example, I'm going off second hand information. |
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The Pestilent Scourge ~ a Death Guard WIP painting, modelling and converting log. The Pestilent Scourge backstory. The Ghost Fleet ~ a Death Guard BFG Fleet blog. ![]() The Perseus Crisis Campaign. | |
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| The Fallen | Jun 25 2012, 07:16 PM Post #12 |
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Renegade
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I can see this being abused for power gaming by far. People combining different units to make armies that much more competitive. And some of it is just anti-fluff which doesn't bother me that much but there will always be those people that make excuses and fight you no matter how hard you believe that the rule is going to be used for power gaming. |
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| Excessus | Jun 25 2012, 10:23 PM Post #13 |
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Heretic
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A thought on allies... Allies will be a way for older outdated codexes not touched by the "codex creep" to stay competitive. And from what I hear, the "cheesy" allies will cost a truckload of points, since you'll need a HQ and a troop choice to unlock the other slots in the allied codex. So if you fancy TH/SS termies in your IG list, you'll have to dish out some serious points for them... (a hq, a troop choice, an elite choice and a transport...that's a lot of points...around 800p for one squad I think) |
![]() FLEA BITTEN CHAOS MOGGY!!! "Deception is the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see." "And fear what he doesn't know." | |
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| goneRENEGADE | Jun 26 2012, 04:37 AM Post #14 |
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Khorne Worshiper
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@Cenobite Sorry for outburst.
Edited by goneRENEGADE, Jul 1 2012, 02:21 AM.
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Skulls For The Skull Throne! Blood For The Blood God!
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| Eetion | Jun 26 2012, 07:22 AM Post #15 |
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Chosen
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Allies are beginning to concern me. http://www.games-workshop.com/gws/wnt/blog.jsp?pid=2700228-gws&utm_source=VoxCaster&utm_medium=twitter&utm_term=new-blog&utm_content=new-blog&utm_campaign=VoxCaster-New-Blog-Posts&_requestid=638313 Its appoears they may be used in regular games. |
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| Eetion | Jun 26 2012, 07:37 AM Post #16 |
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Chosen
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It does mean I can add in some proper Daemons however. A few screamers of Tzeentch for anti tank, and a flamer or two for jump infantry. Rather not have it but if its there I might as well fluff the army a little. |
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| Yaj | Jun 26 2012, 08:45 AM Post #17 |
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Heretic
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We will always have players who abuse the rules just to win. No doubt will be seeing the aformentioned Epidermus or Kaldor Dragio included as allies for no actual reason other than the player simply can. It's a shame for myself and anyone else who plans to use the rules in a sensible manner. I think a couple of allied units used to support not completely overpower an army can only be a benefit. There are dangers in using allies to create themed armies and one players will no doubt fall into (intentionaly or not) from time to time. I think it will be a question of will power for those of us who have our own background not to alter it to include the latest uber unit. I for example could take a unit of thunderwolves with storm shields. They don't fit my background so I'm not adding them to the army. On the other hand a small 5-man jump-pack death company with basic weapons added to my foot marine list. Adds some punch to an army heavy on shooting without going over the top. Further more it allows me to use the army as written in the background (well as close as possible) far better than a unit of vanguard veterans would. I can't see how a single small death company squad could be considered making a codex-chapter overpowered. Even new gamers would probably find ways to take it out before it caused to much harm. I would like it though if the ally rules forbid the use of allied special characters so players can't abuse the special rules for characters so easily. |
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'A stand can be made against invasion by an army; no stand can be made against invasion by an idea' - Victor Hugo 'Histoire d'un Crime' ![]() 'When faith is lost, only hate remains' Unknown, Circa M36 Index Astartes: Lions of Medusa (work in progress) Yaj | |
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| Yaj | Jun 26 2012, 08:47 AM Post #18 |
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Heretic
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Exactly, it's there IF you want to use it. |
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'A stand can be made against invasion by an army; no stand can be made against invasion by an idea' - Victor Hugo 'Histoire d'un Crime' ![]() 'When faith is lost, only hate remains' Unknown, Circa M36 Index Astartes: Lions of Medusa (work in progress) Yaj | |
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| Excessus | Jun 26 2012, 03:09 PM Post #19 |
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Heretic
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I get my traitor guard, wee!
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![]() FLEA BITTEN CHAOS MOGGY!!! "Deception is the point. Any fool can calculate strength. That one has been doing it from the moment he saw us. Now, he has to calculate what he can't see." "And fear what he doesn't know." | |
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| The Warmaster Bowden | Jun 28 2012, 07:31 AM Post #20 |
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Loyalist
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Personally I'm not a big fan of the rule changes I've heard and now read about. The pre-measuring and random charges are IMO about dumbing down the game for the sake of pandering to the under 12's. While I Like the idea of allies (daemons and traitor guard mwhahaha) and random effect terrain , i dont think in pick up games it should be allowed. It sounds like a way to sell more figures to the one army player masses. |
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