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Death Penalty
Topic Started: Mar 14 2009, 07:52 PM (1,210 Views)
Todd-ster
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something can have flaws and function perfectly well. take a look at me......im walking imperfection. but i think i can get around, im making my way through college. (and an awesome track runner, if i do say so myself.)

like i said, i do have my opinion about the law.......but it changes once michael tells me of the 5 hour long cases he had to sit through and take notes on. he doesn't share those stories with you......well i wouldn't either, you're not even listening.....you're kinda just reading. my point is, it's easy to believe the law does not work if you're watching it from your TV. or if you're hearing some mother exagerate how her son got arrested. if you take time to listen to an INSIDE source, the one that is actually within touching distance of that judge......you all might LEARN of the other opinions. michael has sat through 57 court cases in these 2 semesters. of course he has seen flaws.

have any of you cared to ask him how sitting through a court case feels? i know you all have been on jury duty......but michael actually was allowed to see the court case involving that mother who killed her daughter here in Florida and reported her missing. i found that court case really intresting. why is no one asking him about it? you all think so much the system sucks.....hello!......you have the opportunity to hear about cases and law stuff. (not to big on law)

and please do not go into some personal story of a friend or family member that got treated unfairly in the law. how do you really know? of course you're siding with your close friend/family member. michael sits there, as a third person......with no side to chose, only the cold hard facts and case in front of him. sometimes he gives me the notes he took, and i have to write the paper for him (since he doesnt have time.) but the paper is about which side he chose. is that not what the law is?! the law is not some operah show, where the judge needs a tissue everytime he hears the same sob story from someone who is sitting in the guilty chair. the lawyers are not your mothers, that have to hold your hand while you are defending yourself for your life. and clearly, the offenders are not 2 year old girls who need things repeated for it to stick to their head. the law was meant to be both heaven and hell, and people just need to understand that.
Edited by Todd-ster, Mar 17 2009, 01:36 PM.
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The Poetic Prince
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I see your point about the friend/family member thing, Todd. Of course one would be partial in such instances! It's human nature! Feelings get in the way. I would say that it is possible to put feelings aside, most people won't do that, but I think it is at least a possibility. I'd also like to state that it might be possible (just might be possible) that judges and lawyers are partial as well! Was the judge there when that woman killed her kids? Did he see what was going on inside her head? Can he understand what makes her tick? Now, of course I'm not defending her actions! If she really did that, then of course she should have to answer to the law for it! But a lot of innocent people also answer to the law for things they did not do...

And of course, judges and lawyers are looking at the facts as they stand (as you already have stated). But human imperfection should be considered here! You yourself have acknowledged that you are not perfect! Now, if your imperfections were affecting the lives of hundreds and hundreds of people daily, wouldn't you be a little more convinced that you should change? We all have our own imperfections, and we all hurt people from time to time. And the law is a system ran by imperfect people just as ourselves.

What are the facts, and how can someone who has experienced only one side truly know everything? If you're seeing one side and one side only, then you don't know it all, you only know half of it. Pretty much everyone sees only half of it, few are those who are willing and able to see the opposing side.

Yes, the law has flaws. No, I was not ranting about its flaws, I was explaining possible ways it could do better.

You said, "if you take time to listen to an INSIDE source, the one that is actually within touching distance of that judge......you all might LEARN of the other opinions". And what are the other opinions? There are always two sides to every story, chances are, the judge isn't going to seriously consider every possible "truth" that might exist between those two sides. Even the experts don't always agree!

I'd like to return to what you said about the friend/family member thing: I don't have any stories to tell about how someone very close to me was unfairly judged by the law. I don't have any stories to tell you about such things. But I know...
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Masquerading Doll
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Hm.
Poetic Prince. You aren't really seeing Todd's point.
We are outsiders looking in.
Any of us (besides me) may have sat on a jury.
But. We don't see what Michael does.
He's asking you to understand what we're all saying.
Especially Michael.
The shit that we see, it isn't what Michael sees.
We should all take time and REALLY listen to Michael, seeing as how he's the one majoring in law.
Also. Just because he's majoring in law, does not mean he's the monster in our nightmares, telling us everything we thought was real, true, and just, isn't so.
He's telling the truth.
We all have our opinions. Michael has facts.
Which would you go with?
Sure, the system doesn't always work. Nothing ever ALWAYS works.
They're asking you to see the hard side of things instead of the easy.
To look at more than YOUR opinion. You aren't doing that. And, when you do, you're just defending the simple things.
I mean no offense to anyone from this, notice.
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The Poetic Prince
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No, I see what he's saying. But Michael has no more facts than I do. Yes, Michael has facts, and so do I. I have experienced things. And Michael has seen things in his court cases, I understand that! Like I said before, I respect that Michael has an opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion!).

All in all, just because Michael is majoring in law doesn't mean that he knows better than other people. That's called "gullibility", just taking what someone else says and assuming it's fact. Opinions are formed based upon facts, but that doesn't mean they cease to be opinions. The measure of a man should be whether he encourages you to take his statements as fact, or to do your own research and come to your own conclusions. As the Buddha once said, "Believe nothing, no matter where you read it or who has said it, not even if I have said it, unless it agrees with your own reason and your own common sense". Yes, Michael has seen things I have not, and I have seen things that he has not. We are all equals, modesty does good for all.

I look at more than my own opinions. In fact, I've had to look at quite a few things to even arrive at my opinions, not just what the law does a lot of times, but also, many of the things I've stated on this thread are from observations concerning human nature and the things that we all share as humans.
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Masquerading Doll
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Ugh.
Nevermind.
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m&m.Michael.
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Lol, yes Ivy...just saying nevermind is what I will do as well. Besides, I'm on Spring Break. I think I prefer to take a break from my studies. Therefore, let this topic die out. If you wish to keep discussing federal law, I'm sure you all can find a chatsite for it. Or maybe don't pay off a parking ticket, and go to court yourself...then strike up the conversation with the judge. Doesn't matter to me.

Adios.
Edited by m&m.Michael., Mar 17 2009, 08:09 PM.
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Masquerading Doll
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I think we just got told.
In the nicest way possible.
Nice, Michael.
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Gibson
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Head Greeter/Mod
You guys really need to lighten up. An opinion is just that: an opinion. Nothing about either one of those topics were facts, and Mike shouldn't be getting offended over somone else's opinion no matter what it involves. Honestly, I agree with Thomas on this topic, but thats besides the point. It's not right to throw someone's opinion out the window for any reason. Just because you disagreed with them doesn't make them more or less intelligent. You're going to find somone with a different opinion than you everywhere you go, are you going to say they are attacking you also?

No opinion is true or false, it's an opinion. You should look up the definition sometime.
Edited by Gibson, Mar 20 2009, 04:16 PM.
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Duchess Dizufish
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The Duchess of Administration
you guys know i'm not here to mod.
at all.
i created this place so we could have discussions like this one without fear of being shut down.
however,
i think we all need to step back and realize what this really is.
it's a forum.
a.
forum.
we are talking to each other with words on a screen, to people we will
never
meet.
why do we care so much? why do we have to be so RIGHT all the time?
discussions are beneficial because it enables us to talk to one another, share ideas and opinions, and maybe learn something.
arguments, however, aren't nearly as beneficial, as there isn't as much conceding, or learning, or even truly taking the other's thoughts in and digesting them. they're just defense and offense.

and honestly, guys, what's even being argued about? whether Michael knows what he's talking about? of course he does.
or are we arguing about the original topic, in which case that is a matter of opinion and no ones opinion has any more value than anyone elses, regardless of their schooling or natural intellect, touted or not.

everyone just needs to chill. -_-
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m&m.Michael.
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I backed off, because it was my opinion that was being thrown out the window. I said I was done a long time ago with this discussion, and I know it is a forum...which is why I stopped posting. From my point of view, it was getting to the point where it was my knowledge that was being talked about...and not the real topic. That is why I was offended, I was not offended that someone didn't agree with me. Come on now, I'm in law school to be a lawyer...I think that means I can handle discussion and being "attacked." Like I said, I was offended because it seemed as if my knowledge was being questioned.

And please...don't call me Mike. My name is Michael.
Edited by m&m.Michael., Mar 20 2009, 10:26 PM.
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