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| Rather strange... | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Feb 17 2009, 10:11 PM (440 Views) | |
| The Poetic Prince | Mar 2 2009, 06:05 PM Post #21 |
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I agree, Michael. That's what I meant when I said, "But putting all extremes aside, just how far is too far? If we're really talking about love and not just an infatuation, does blood relation have any effect on it? Well, to answer that question, think about what makes you love someone, the entire being of who and what they are. Our beliefs and customs are shaped by those around us, some people think a lot like the people who raised them, though there are exceptions (I don't have many views in common with my parents)." We each have our own limits. That being said, I have my doubts that that really affected her feelings for him. I don't believe that something like that can cause someone to just stop loving another person, especially once it has reached the point that they are married. I believe that that could put a stop to a physical attraction and cause that love to turn into a different form, simply because one believes it to be wrong in the form it is currently taking. It's just sad... Don't you find it sad that our own emotions control how we feel. ![]() All in all, I'd say it amounts to us being a slave to our culture. We sometimes deny what we truly want because either it is not socially acceptable, or because we ourselves also believe it to be wrong (because of how we were taught all our lives). These are not judgments of that couple, merely pities of society in general. I do not know that couple, or the emotional trauma they went through during the breakup. I write all of this as though it were a hypothetical situation. |
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| m&m.Michael. | Mar 2 2009, 07:49 PM Post #22 |
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If it were a hypothetical question, I would answer it in the same way. However, the story hit home to me. For the reason, I am married and the fact that I am close to my brothers. If by some weird shock of fate, my wife was my sister...would I love her as a wife, or as a sister? I bet it was the question that woman was asking herself. "Do I allow him to say my husband? Or do I form this new bond and love with him?" My point is, she STILL probably loves her husband...just in a different way. However, this is not a bad thing. Like I said, love is still love. |
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| The Poetic Prince | Mar 2 2009, 08:27 PM Post #23 |
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Actually, I said that. "I have my doubts that that really affected her feelings for him. I don't believe that something like that can cause someone to just stop loving another person, especially once it has reached the point that they are married. I believe that that could put a stop to a physical attraction and cause that love to turn into a different form, simply because one believes it to be wrong in the form it is currently taking." So, I agree. You see, what I'm saying is that hypothetically, she could still love him in the husband/wife kind of way, and I believe that she really does, she just suppresses that. I believe it's something psychological because I have genuine doubts that that kind of piece of information can truly transform the love in any way. It only transforms how we choose to interpret it (based upon social norms in our culture). I also don't believe that the various forms of love are really as different as people in the Western world generally believe them to be. I don't believe that a real love can be transformed to such a dramatic degree in such a short space of time. At least not when the two people truly know one another, as for people who are still getting to know one another and discovering what kind of relationship they have, sure! As for a hypothetical situation: of course it's hypothetical! I don't know this woman, you don't know this woman (as far as I know), it's just some character in a story for all we know about her. Yes, I can understand why this topic would "hit home" as you said... I like where this topic is going, I'm really enjoying this discussion!
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| YesterdaysDreams | Mar 2 2009, 10:43 PM Post #24 |
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Official Greeter
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ok so here is a fact... in ancient egyptian culture it was common that siblings married eachother the preserve their royal blood line o.O |
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| m&m.Michael. | Mar 3 2009, 08:06 AM Post #25 |
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I am not trying to say, that her insight is just to break off the marriage with her husband (well brother.) Like I said, we know nothing of this woman...and her life with her adopted family. Maybe she had no siblings, maybe she feels he is better placed off in her life as a brother. It is said through research, that babies know who their mother is. It is also said, babies can sense the feeling of their siblings...even though they don't realize it is really a brother or sister. Maybe this woman felt like this man cared for her, was there for her, wiped her tears, nutured her when she was sick, made her laugh...does a brother not do these things as well? I know I did that for my brothers when they were growing up. Did I end up marrying them? My point, she might have just setteled because she knew he loved her. Now, that she knows he's a brother...she can let him go properly and still know that he will always love her. Since, he is her brother. See how I am calling him her brother now? Because, that is the way she finally sees it. She could be that baby who has always sensed that he cared for a reason other than being her marriage partner.
Edited by m&m.Michael., Mar 3 2009, 08:09 AM.
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| Duchess Dizufish | Mar 3 2009, 01:14 PM Post #26 |
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The Duchess of Administration
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just a little morsel of thought/information. . . the concept of familial terms is one of culture, it's constructed by us and taught to us from an early age, and it varies depending on which culture you come from. I learned this last semester in Anthropology, kinship ties and matrilineal/patrilineal descent, etc, but anyways. . . Some cultures call every male on their father's side an uncle, regardless of what we would consider an uncle. Some call every woman on their mother's side a sister, regardless of our conception of what a sister is. On the other hand, some cultures have a separate name for each member of a family, a very detailed name, something like "mother's brother's father's sister's daughter". I suppose the point that I'm trying to make here is close to what Kim said about the Egyptians commonly marrying siblings to keep the bloodlines pure; it's all a matter of "culture". We view marrying first cousins as morally wrong, because that is what we were conditioned to believe, that's what our society dictates. Had we been raised in another society, or even with a background and knowledge that such things happen and are perfectly fine in other societies, this story wouldn't necessarily "turn our stomachs"; we may not approve, but we're able to see it for what it is. This woman fell in love with this man and vice versa, they got married, then realized they were siblings. They weren't conditioned to view each other as sibllings, but when they were told that they were so closely related, society told them that such a marriage was wrong. I think I lost my point here, I'm just rambling. . . I just find the role that society and socialization plays in the way we view the world and our relationships to be very interesting. . . I don't know what my stance on this is. I suppose that if they'd want to stay married, I wouldn't have a problem with it; they have love, and I don't think it matters what type of love that is, whether it's the love a wife has for a husband or the love that a sister has for a brother. /shrug. |
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| The Poetic Prince | Mar 3 2009, 02:28 PM Post #27 |
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I never said her insight was to break off with her husband (yes, husband) either. Well, not in so many ways. OF COURSE that is her insight at some point, but it isn't that simple, it's a long process of thought process. (Alright, now keep in mind that I am discussing this from a hypothetical point of view because I do not know the woman, so nothing I say is meant to be a judgment upon that woman or her now ex-husband) You said, "It is also said, babies can sense the feeling of their siblings...even though they don't realize it is really a brother or sister. Maybe this woman felt like this man cared for her, was there for her, wiped her tears, nutured her when she was sick, made her laugh...does a brother not do these things as well? I know I did that for my brothers when they were growing up. Did I end up marrying them?" Now, let's take a look at another example to see if this is really true. What other example shall we use? How about the fact that a lot of brothers and sisters do not even get along with one another? I had some older half brothers, they never treated me like a "brother" would. So does that mean they aren't even a half brother? Well, I wouldn't consider them a real relative of mine, I don't even know them, so why should I? Now, on the other hand, I have a lot of close friends who have always been there for me. Some of them are on the other side of the world, and I think of them as sisters. How likely is it that I am actually physically related to them? Considering the fact that we aren't even of the same race... So what does being physically related to someone have to do with anything if you weren't raised with them? Grew up in possibly completely different environments and definitely had much different influences in their separate lives? No matter what, whether they are related physically or not, they're going to have to have something they can share together before they can develop a love of any form between them. Like I said in one of my previous posts on this thread, "We cannot be friends simply because we are related". To clear things up, I am not saying that their choice to be brother and sister rather than husband and wife was a wrong choice. I'm not saying it was right either. I am merely saying that it may not have been what they really wanted, their culture could have dictated that to them. If it was acceptable to marry brother and sister in our culture, do you honestly believe they would have made the same choice? Of course, that would be a dramatic cultural differences if that were so, but try and think about situations from a culturally neutral perspective. Of course, such a statement brings up a new problem: what does it mean to be "culturally neutral" and is it even remotely possible? I would say that being culturally neutral means submitting to what we all inherently know about right and wrong and ignoring what our culture teaches us as we grow up. In our culture today, a lot of people divorce for a lot of reasons. Is it right for them to divorce? Well, is it right for them to stay with someone they no longer love, or do not love in that way? I couldn't say I think it's right (or even healthy) to live a lie like that! But what is wrong here is not individual acts by different people like this, but how the culture in general treats marriage. It isn't their fault, it's just how we are all raised: we don't take this commitment seriously enough. I'm sure a lot of us do, but in general, a lot of people don't. (I am talking about our culture here, not that couple, remember, this is mainly a cultural issue I am talking about now, I was NEVER at ANY TIME judging that couple!) This may not be perfectly related to what I was saying in the above, but I'd like to leave you with a quote from Jalal ad-Din Rumi that I recently found in my quote collections that I liked: "Your task is not to seek for love, but merely to seek and find all the barriers within yourself that you have built against it." |
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| m&m.Michael. | Mar 3 2009, 06:05 PM Post #28 |
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If you are veiwing this hypothetically then why bring in the fact that your half brothers never treated you like a brother? See, maybe this even hits home from you. Because, that is why we view things differently on this topic. I am extreamly close to my siblings, while you might have never expierenced that. (From what you have told me thus far) Now, I understand not everyone has this kind of relationship..I just want people to know, the heavens did not bless me with a good relationship with my brothers. My point is, like any other relationship, I had to build the strong relationship with my brothers. Just like couples build their marriage. Nor am I judging this couple, I don't find it wrong because they are brother and sister...I find it challenging for her to make a choice. But at the end of the day, she was his sister...long before she was his wife. The choice is hers to make on which one she decides to be, and she has made it. |
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| The Poetic Prince | Mar 3 2009, 07:03 PM Post #29 |
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No, it does not hit home for me. I first brought up the fact that I have no real relationship with my half brothers because I thought that might make my opinions on this subject more understandable. The second time I brought it up, I was using it as an example. The fact that I have no real relationship with my half brothers, and the fact that a LOT of people do not get along with their siblings should be proof enough that physical relationship has nothing to do with how we relate to others. It is possible to be very good friends with a brother, and it is possible to be worst enemies with a brother. This is also possible with someone on the other side of the world whom you have no physical relationship to. Your point? I recognize that this is a real woman, but I say I view it hypothetically because I cannot view it any other way (I don't know her personally, so how can I say anything about them personally? I can only make social and cultural commentary on a HYPOTHETICAL situation similar to theirs). I kind of like to see myself as being cultural neutral, but truth be told, I'm probably more like multi-cultural. (I've lived my whole life in the U. S., I've had no exposure to other cultures outside of research). It really isn't possible to be neutral on something, to not be biased, of course our experiences affect our views on things. I believe the challenge is putting ourselves to the side and looking at the facts as they truly stand. No, I've never had a real relationship with my half brothers, I first mentioned that fact (among other details) to explain why I put more emphasis on relationships we develop with others rather than being physically related. That's how I came to that conclusion. And in this kind of situation, the relationship they developed between them was romantic, it eventually developed into a husband/wife relationship. No, they weren't brother and sister, but because they found out that technically they are (based upon biological evidence) they decided that that's what it should be. It brings me back to my observation that we actually become slaves to our culture. We accept things as they are. I'm sure there must have been a lot going through both of their heads when they found out: the immorality (since obviously, they probably believed it to be wrong), the fact that they are married and splitting up is never easy... I'm sure they both went through a lot of emotional trauma during the divorce. This is the main problem with culture in general, problems exist in all cultures today, not just ours. But, like I said before, it happens. It happens, it isn't easy. I don't think it is either right or wrong, it's just sad. |
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| Todd-ster | Mar 3 2009, 10:12 PM Post #30 |
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of course michael has to complicate things......pffff, it's michael. anyway, next story michael? pick the one about the lady who was killed by her pet chimp. |
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9:54 AM Jul 11