beantownfan247

 

While I understand that there are many quotes from many people who say explosion, but lets think about this.

beantownfan247

Jun 27 2009, 10:56 AM

Ultima,

I would love to know where you got the information that a fire commander has the authority to demolish a building in an emergency. Please provide a link to that.

Now, does a chief, or commander have to aauthority to pull firefighters out of an unstable building to protect firefighters' lives?? Yes.

BTW, they don't drive around with C-4, or thermite, or anything else like explosives in their trucks. They also don't caarry around huge caables and heavy machinery to pull them down either.

Please, tell me you don't actually believe that, do you??

beantownfan247

Jun 27 2009, 11:02 AM

Is it possible that whomever Silverstein talked to, was either unaware of the fact that the collapse zone had already been established?? Is that a possibility, considering how much confusion, lack of reliable communication, etc were happening that day?? If it is not remotely possible, than logical thinking is not your strong point.

beantownfan247

Jun 28 2009, 09:05 PM

Ultima, Here is the thing. When you have thousands of firefighters on a scene like what 9/11 was, there was lots of confusion. Don't believe me, go google it. Now, it is very possible that he did not find out untill after the conversation with Silverstein. Especially when the radios were somewhat outdated. Certain channels were not able to be picked up on certain radios. This is one of the things that the 9/11 Commission talked about.

Quote:

 

Now, I am not sure how many firetrucks you have seen with this logo on them. I certainly haven't seen any, and like I said, I come from a family of firefighters.

Quote:

 

beantownfan247

Quote:

 

KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?

PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.

KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?

PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.

KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?

PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.

KT: Could you still hear any of these explosions when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?

PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.

KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be explosions?

PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.

KT: Were the explosions going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?

PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.

KT: Where the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?

PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.

KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?

PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small explosions were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.

T3QuillAMocKINGbird

Jun 29 2009, 06:31 AM

Quote:

 

beantownfan247

You would have to not believe anything that witnesses state or obfuscate their meaning to not understand the implications of Controlled Demoliton. There are multiple witnesses too that corroberate each others accounts. There were 2 Officials that saw these rings of detonations and looked at each other and asked if they saw the same thing. An explosion can sound like anything loud and not necessarily is a detonation but it is alot like the sound of your argument hitting the floor down for the count. Oh and don't get back up unless you plan on helping truthers now instead of ridiculing them.

Now you will say this next quote was a Hollywood set because she said it was like a movie, or good thing smokey the bear was there and telling her to keep clear of the fire. This quote also plays into what is being revealed from Kurt Sonnenfeld that will expose what happened at building 6...Kurt Sonnenfeld Interview
Flashing Popping Detonation Quotes by an EMT: ~This EMT also stated that her Fireprotectant Turncoat Caught on Fire while she was running...~

Quote:

 

KT: You mentioned you were running west on Vesey Street, what happened after that?

PO: I just kept running. I was aware there were other people running as well. After passing the cars on fire, I was trying to find someplace safe. I tried to run into the lobby of 6 World Trade, but there were federal police -- maybe 4 to 6 of them -- standing in the open doorways. As I tried to run in, they wouldn't let me, waving me out, telling me "you can't come in here, keep running." As I turned to start running west again, I saw a series of flashes around the ceiling of the lobby all going off one-by-one like the X-mass lights that "chase" in pattern. I think I started running faster at that point.

KT: Did you hear any "popping" sounds when each of these flashes in the WTC 6 lobby were going off?

PO: Yes, that part was like a movie. The pops were at the same time as the flashes.

KT: Can you estimate either how many flashes you saw or how many of these "pops" you heard inside this lobby?

PO: At least 6 before I was turned away.

KT: Could you still hear any of these explosions when you turned to run back out, or was the noise outside too loud?

PO: I don't recall hearing any more when I resumed running. It was very chaotic.

KT: Now to be clear, were you inside the Lobby of the WTC 6, or were you outside the building when you witnessed these what appeared to be explosions?

PO: I was in the doorway, but not inside the lobby. I remember being able to breathe the somewhat cleaner air coming from inside the building. They stopped me as I was trying to get past the threshold.

KT: Were the explosions going off as you were entering the lobby area, or did they seem to start going off after the police tried to turn you away?

PO: It all happened at the same time. As I got to the doorway, I was told not to come in. As the officer was telling me I couldn't get in the building the flashes starting going off.

KT: Where the police just right at the lobby door, or were some also way inside the building?

PO: There were probably 4-5 officers in the doorway. I could see a few others back in the lobby area.

KT: You said you saw "federal police." What exactly do you mean and did you find it strange they were in there and that they wouldn't let you in?

PO: Well, they were in light brown uniforms and "Smokey the bear" hats. I assumed they were federal police because NYC police don't look like that and I knew there was a lot of federal offices in the WTC as well as the surrounding area, so it wasn't strange to me to see them there, but I did find it very odd that they wouldn't let me in to get cover. But like I say, in that profession, someone tells you to go an opposite way you are going, you don't ask, you just go. I remember hoping they got out as I was watching whatever the small explosions were, because they stayed in the building. They weren't locking it up after evacuating or anything like that.

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 12:41 PM

Why do you think the firemen and citizens survived in the stairwell in tower 1? Did they not detonate that part? Were they trying to do a complete demolition or a partial demolition? Why have none of these people said they heard or saw bombs going off. They were in the tower as it was collapsing.

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 02:28 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 12:41 PM

Why do you think the firemen and citizens survived in the stairwell in tower 1? Did they not detonate that part? Were they trying to do a complete demolition or a partial demolition? Why have none of these people said they heard or saw bombs going off. They were in the tower as it was collapsing.

Question back for you - what force destroyed the undamaged floors of the 2 towers? You know those 80 (WTC2) and 95 (WTC1) floors which were not hit by a plane and were not on fire.

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 03:45 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 02:28 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 12:41 PM

Why do you think the firemen and citizens survived in the stairwell in tower 1? Did they not detonate that part? Were they trying to do a complete demolition or a partial demolition? Why have none of these people said they heard or saw bombs going off. They were in the tower as it was collapsing.

Question back for you - what force destroyed the undamaged floors of the 2 towers? You know those 80 (WTC2) and 95 (WTC1) floors which were not hit by a plane and were not on fire.

If I drop a 2 ton car on you will you and I laugh about later, or will I be sending cash in lieu of flowers? The floors were not made of adamantium.

T3QuillAMocKINGbird

 

You would have to not believe anything that witnesses state or obfuscate their meaning to not understand the implications of Controlled Demoliton.There were 2 Officials that saw these rings of detonations

Quote:

 

denial disorder -
the refusal to acknowledge the existence or severity of unpleasant external realities or internal thoughts and feelings.

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 03:45 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 02:28 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 12:41 PM

Why do you think the firemen and citizens survived in the stairwell in tower 1? Did they not detonate that part? Were they trying to do a complete demolition or a partial demolition? Why have none of these people said they heard or saw bombs going off. They were in the tower as it was collapsing.

Question back for you - what force destroyed the undamaged floors of the 2 towers? You know those 80 (WTC2) and 95 (WTC1) floors which were not hit by a plane and were not on fire.

If I drop a 2 ton car on you will you and I laugh about later, or will I be sending cash in lieu of flowers? The floors were not made of adamantium.

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:08 PM

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

So how do you account for survivors in the stairwell in WTC1? 100,000 tons you say?

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:16 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:08 PM

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

So how do you account for survivors in the stairwell in WTC1? 100,000 tons you say?

The floors were not built to have the top 30 come down on them at one time. When the first intact floor is hit by the mass coming down, it has no chance. The floor after that has no chance. All the while more falling mass is being added to the original 30flrs. This isn't hard to figure.


The collapse was completely uncontrolled and we know things like the stairwell portion surviving is possible. It is just the randomness of the collapse. Sometimes building collapse in earthquakes and a person in a one room may survive whereas the person in the next room may not. It just depends on how it comes down. A tornado can demolish one house and leave another standing right next door. This is more evidence that this was a natural collapse.

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:22 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:16 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:08 PM

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

So how do you account for survivors in the stairwell in WTC1? 100,000 tons you say?

The floors were not built to have the top 30 come down on them at one time. When the first intact floor is hit by the mass coming down, it has no chance. The floor after that has no chance. All the while more falling mass is being added to the original 30flrs. This isn't hard to figure.


The collapse was completely uncontrolled and we know things like the stairwell portion surviving is possible. It is just the randomness of the collapse. Sometimes building collapse in earthquakes and a person in a one room may survive whereas the person in the next room may not. It just depends on how it comes down. A tornado can demolish one house and leave another standing right next door. This is more evidence that this was a natural collapse.

That's a laughable response isn't it. A huge mass accumulating and yet somehow this stairwell survives? If the collapse was so uncontrolled, how come almost all of the towers were destroyed top to bottom - even though the top stories of WTC2 were obviously not falling straight down. The evidence of a controlled collapse is there for you to see - the evidence of a small percentage of the towers actually ending up in the footprint of the towers is there for you to see - the survival of the people in the stairwell is evidence that this huge mass did not come down destroying floor by floor. Case closed Kenyon, try another theory.

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:41 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:22 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:16 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:08 PM

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

So how do you account for survivors in the stairwell in WTC1? 100,000 tons you say?

The floors were not built to have the top 30 come down on them at one time. When the first intact floor is hit by the mass coming down, it has no chance. The floor after that has no chance. All the while more falling mass is being added to the original 30flrs. This isn't hard to figure.


The collapse was completely uncontrolled and we know things like the stairwell portion surviving is possible. It is just the randomness of the collapse. Sometimes building collapse in earthquakes and a person in a one room may survive whereas the person in the next room may not. It just depends on how it comes down. A tornado can demolish one house and leave another standing right next door. This is more evidence that this was a natural collapse.

That's a laughable response isn't it. A huge mass accumulating and yet somehow this stairwell survives? If the collapse was so uncontrolled, how come almost all of the towers were destroyed top to bottom - even though the top stories of WTC2 were obviously not falling straight down. The evidence of a controlled collapse is there for you to see - the evidence of a small percentage of the towers actually ending up in the footprint of the towers is there for you to see - the survival of the people in the stairwell is evidence that this huge mass did not come down destroying floor by floor. Case closed Kenyon, try another theory.

It is proof of the randomness of it. We see these things everyday. They are called amazing sigularities. There are millions of examples. It just happens the way it happens and if you are in the right place at the right time, you will survive. There was also two port authority officers who were in the concourse between the towers when tower 2 came down. They survived both collapses and are here to talk about it today. Were they in the right place at the right time? All of their co-workers who were with them died. By the way, they never heard or reported the orchestrated sound of CD explosions either.


You seem to think each floor in the towers could hold any amount of weight. This weight was in motion which makes it much much worse. What do you think it would take to bring a floor down?

JFK

Jun 29 2009, 07:02 PM

Yep, Randomly on 911 three steel framed structures collapsed.

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:53 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:41 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:22 PM

KenyonG

Jun 29 2009, 06:16 PM

tuatara

Jun 29 2009, 06:08 PM

beantownfan247

Jun 29 2009, 03:04 PM

tuatara,

Do you think that maybe the 100,000 tons of debris falling on it might have had something to do with it??

Obviously you have no idea the difference between a static load, and a live load. Or Load capabilities, or really anything to do with buildings and how they react to different forces.

So how do you account for survivors in the stairwell in WTC1? 100,000 tons you say?

The floors were not built to have the top 30 come down on them at one time. When the first intact floor is hit by the mass coming down, it has no chance. The floor after that has no chance. All the while more falling mass is being added to the original 30flrs. This isn't hard to figure.


The collapse was completely uncontrolled and we know things like the stairwell portion surviving is possible. It is just the randomness of the collapse. Sometimes building collapse in earthquakes and a person in a one room may survive whereas the person in the next room may not. It just depends on how it comes down. A tornado can demolish one house and leave another standing right next door. This is more evidence that this was a natural collapse.

That's a laughable response isn't it. A huge mass accumulating and yet somehow this stairwell survives? If the collapse was so uncontrolled, how come almost all of the towers were destroyed top to bottom - even though the top stories of WTC2 were obviously not falling straight down. The evidence of a controlled collapse is there for you to see - the evidence of a small percentage of the towers actually ending up in the footprint of the towers is there for you to see - the survival of the people in the stairwell is evidence that this huge mass did not come down destroying floor by floor. Case closed Kenyon, try another theory.

It is proof of the randomness of it. We see these things everyday. They are called amazing sigularities. There are millions of examples. It just happens the way it happens and if you are in the right place at the right time, you will survive. There was also two port authority officers who were in the concourse between the towers when tower 2 came down. They survived both collapses and are here to talk about it today. Were they in the right place at the right time? All of their co-workers who were with them died. By the way, they never heard or reported the orchestrated sound of CD explosions either.


You seem to think each floor in the towers could hold any amount of weight. This weight was in motion which makes it much much worse. What do you think it would take to bring a floor down?

No, you miss the point - there is no randomness about your theory - tons and tons of debris falling straight down destroying every floor - you can't have that and have survivors, it is ludicrous. What sort of load do you need to turn a massive tower into dust and yet somehow avoid a stairwell near the bottom - where did your mass go? Your theory is false, try another one.