jim76

Dec 19 2008, 12:49 PM

Osama bin Laden doesn't mention al Qaeda in interviews or statements before 9/11/01. Does this mean it never existed?

Osama himself speaks of how it has been around for a long time and "al Qaeda" was the name of one of their training camps.

Is bin Laden lying about this?

Dom

 

i asked to be shown 1 interview prior to the 9/11 attacks where osama bin laden references al qaeda.

see jim i know osama bin laden never once said the words 'al qaeda' prior to our media onslaught of those words prior to 9/11. i just want to see someone who claims to be 'intellectually honest' and above average intelligence [or whichever the phrase was you used in your little thread to try to assert some sort of intelligence superiority to the rest of the posters at this forum] concede there was no al qaeda before 9/11.

Quote:

 

Al-Qa'ida's spokesman Sheikh Suleiman Abu Gheith:

"I would like to present six points. First…, Osama bin Laden is an excellent example [of following] the right path in order to escape the pitiful situation and the nation's subordination [to the West]."

"Second, we, through our support of the Jihad warrior Osama bin Laden, are not relying on emotion, rather on a religious and ideological basis. What bin Laden is calling for and aspiring to achieve is a vital religious demand to which the nation must in no way hinder compliance, [or] acting towards its implementation."

"Third, we indubitably think there is a global heresy, [spread] by the Jews and the Christians - and headed by America, the spearhead of heresy, which genuinely occupies Muslim lands, plunders their resources, exiles their sons, and carries out a series of illegitimate actions in order to gain control and influence. What the Jews are doing in Palestine is decisive proof. They kill and exile, damage honor [i.e. harm women], destroy houses, bomb innocents. How can the [Islamic] nation permit itself to refrain from helping?"

"Fourth, and most important, America occupies the Arabian Peninsula, from one end to the other. This contradicts the religious writings that command the exclusion of Jews and Christians from the Arabian Peninsula. As the Prophet Muhammad said, in the reliable Hadith [oral tradition] quoted by Ibn 'Abbas, 'Remove the polytheists from the Arabian Peninsula.'"

"Fifth, based on the same writings, which are no secret to any Muslim, warfare against the Americans, the Jews who are at their sides, and anyone who supports them, constitutes a 'fardh 'ayn' [a religious commandment binding on Muslims as individuals]. Fighting them is an obligation in which there can be no compromise, until they leave the Arabian Peninsula and all the Muslim lands they occupy. The clerics have reached a consensus… that Jihad is an obligation in three cases, one of which is when the enemy enters Muslim lands. What can we say when the Jews and Christians disseminate corruption in the holiest place on Earth - the land of the two holy places [the Arabian Peninsula], the land of vision and prophecy, and the land of Jerusalem…?"

"Sixth, in our activity with youth and in [our] preaching and direction, we sense that the Muslim youth is extremely perturbed by the American presence in the Arabian Peninsula and its unlimited support of the Jews. They [the young people] are looking for advice on how to remove the Americans from this land - and this is clearly shown by the martyrdom operations [suicide bombings] they carry out, that doubtless constitute the most tremendous acts of obedience to Allah… Young Muslims today refuse to bow [their] heads to the Arab regimes' open conspiracy against the Islamic nation… The Americans must know, my dear brother, that Osama bin Laden is the symbol that the nation has been seeking for a long time. His ideology has already spread and taken root, and they mustn't think that his dying, or that killing him, will stop the Jihad and the resistance. This is an ideological issue, not contingent upon the life or death of one man."

"Finally, I would like to say that today the nation needs, first of all, 12,000 young Mujahideen recruited to defend the religion, as the Prophet Muhammad said: '12,000 will not be defeated by a few.' Second, the Muslim merchants must give charity to support the holy Jihad against the Jews and the Christians. Then victory will come, Allah willing…"

"If [I have] half a minute left, I want to say to the honorable brother Abd Al-Bari 'Atwan, with all due respect: Bin Laden was never an ally of America; bin Laden called for boycotting American goods as early as 1987, in a video distributed in Saudi Arabia, which the believing youth passed on throughout the Arab homeland. He called for striking America at its head - this is exactly what he said. The joint fighting against the Russians was right according to religious law, but once the ties were cut, it no longer interested us. The Prophet said: 'Fight the Persians even if it serves the interests of the Byzantines, and fight the Byzantines even if it serves the interests of the Persians'…"

Domenick DiMaggio

Dec 19 2008, 09:52 AM

Dom

 

SHOW ME ONE INTERVIEW WHERE OSAMA BIN LADEN TALKS ABOUT 'AL QAEDA' AND USES THE WORDS 'AL QAEDA' PRIOR TO THE 9/11 ATTACKS.

JUST ONE.

Stundie

Jan 4 2009, 09:58 AM

Please reveal the mystery of why Osama never mentioned Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11?

We await your wisdom oh great Albion.

Quote:

 

"Where did Al Qaeda spring from? And why did we begin to hear about it so recently, even though Osama bin Laden has been known of for far longer? The trap to be avoided here when evaluating Al Qaeda as an organization is the assumption that what drives terrorist groups is publicity in pursuit of their broader goal. If that were so, neatly typed communiques claiming responsibility for Al Qaeda attacks would have been sent to the press. Until 9/11 Osama bin Laden never used the term "Al Qaeda". nor did his close cohorts. Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one tha denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

- Rohan Gunaratna, "Inside Al Qaeda", 2002, p. 3, ISBN 0-231-12692-1

Miragememories

Jan 4 2009, 10:55 AM

"Rohan Gunaratna is research fellow at the Centre for the Study of Terrorism and Political Violence, University of St. Andrews, Scotland, and honorary fellow at the International Policy Institute for Counter-Terrorism in Israel. Previously, he was principal investigator of the United Nations'Terrorism Prevention Branch, and he has served as a consultant on terrorism to several governments and corporations. He has been a visiting scholar at the University of Illinois, the University of Maryland, and the University of Notre Dame, and has lectured widely in Latin America,the Middle East, and Asia on terrorism and countermeasures. He is the author of six books on armed conflict."

He obviously makes a good living from his beliefs.

MM

22205

Jan 4 2009, 04:12 PM

yeah MM, it would seem that Gunaratna is THE lead disinfomrationist on the topic of alqueda:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohan_Gunaratna

A Member of the Steering Committee of George Washington University's Homeland Security Policy Institute, Gunaratna is also Senior Fellow both at Fletcher School for Law and Diplomacy's Jebsen Centre for Counter Terrorism Studies and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism, Oklahoma. A former Senior Fellow at the United States Military Academy's Combating Terrorism Centre at West Point, he holds a masters in international peace studies from Notre Dame, US, where he was Hesburgh Scholar and a doctorate in international relations from St Andrews, Scotland, where he was British Chevening Scholar.

Invited to testify before the 9-11 Commission on the structure of al Qaeda, Gunaratna led the specialist team that built the UN Database on al Qaeda, Taliban and their Entities. He debriefed detainees in the U.S., Asia, Middle East, including high value al Qaeda detainees in Iraq. He served as trainer for law enforcement, the intelligence community, and the military. He served as counter terrorism instructor for GIGN, CTSO, D88, US NAVY SEALS, Swiss Federal Police, NYPD, and the Australian Federal Police. He conducted field research in conflict zones including in Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Colombia.

Author and editor of 12 books including “Inside Al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror” (Columbia University Press), an international bestseller, Gunaratna is also the lead author of Jane’s Counter Terrorism, a handbook for counter terrorism practitioners. His latest book with Michael Chandler, former Chairman of the UN Monitoring Group into the Mobility, Weapons and Finance is "Countering Terrorism: Can We Meet the Threat of Global Violence?” He also serves on the editorial boards of "Studies in Conflict and Terrorism" and "Terrorism and Political Violence," the leading academic journals in the field, and on the advisory council of “Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism.”

A litigation consultant to the U.S. Department of Justice, Gunaratna was United States expert in the Jose Padilla trial.


and not everyone trusts his "insights", due to both his lack of real verifiable expertise as well his possible vested interest/bias:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/20/1058545648013.html
(read the whole article)

albion

Jan 4 2009, 10:38 AM

Stundie

Jan 4 2009, 09:58 AM

Please reveal the mystery of why Osama never mentioned Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11?

We await your wisdom oh great Albion.

Sure thing:

Quote:

 

"Where did Al Qaeda spring from? And why did we begin to hear about it so recently, even though Osama bin Laden has been known of for far longer? The trap to be avoided here when evaluating Al Qaeda as an organization is the assumption that what drives terrorist groups is publicity in pursuit of their broader goal. If that were so, neatly typed communiques claiming responsibility for Al Qaeda attacks would have been sent to the press. Until 9/11 Osama bin Laden never used the term "Al Qaeda". nor did his close cohorts. Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one tha denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

- Rohan Gunaratna, "Inside Al Qaeda", 2002, p. 3, ISBN 0-231-12692-1

Wiki

 

Gunaratna has been accused of being overly apocalyptic in his visions on Al Qaeda and lacking in his academic credentials. According to an article in the Australian newspaper The Age, he simply happened to fill out the need for information on Al Qaeda when the demand for explanations and background exploded in 2001, without having any special expertise on this area.[1] His book "Inside Al Qaeda" does hold a number of unsupported claims and stipulated deductive arguments, such as this, where the fact that former police and military personnel served in Al Qaeda is used to support the claim of Al Qaeda infiltrating governments:

"...Al Qaeda and Islamist terrorist groups have infiltrated both Middle Eastern and other governments. For instance, several former Middle Eastern [...] police officers and military personnel as well as several former European military and at least one US military personnel have served in the ranks of Al Qaeda." (p. 76)

albion

Jan 4 2009, 07:49 PM

22205

Jan 4 2009, 04:12 PM

yeah MM, it would seem that Gunaratna is THE lead disinfomrationist on the topic of alqueda:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rohan_Gunaratna

A Member of the Steering Committee of George Washington University's Homeland Security Policy Institute, Gunaratna is also Senior Fellow both at Fletcher School for Law and Diplomacy's Jebsen Centre for Counter Terrorism Studies and the Memorial Institute for the Prevention of Terrorism, Oklahoma. A former Senior Fellow at the United States Military Academy's Combating Terrorism Centre at West Point, he holds a masters in international peace studies from Notre Dame, US, where he was Hesburgh Scholar and a doctorate in international relations from St Andrews, Scotland, where he was British Chevening Scholar.

Invited to testify before the 9-11 Commission on the structure of al Qaeda, Gunaratna led the specialist team that built the UN Database on al Qaeda, Taliban and their Entities. He debriefed detainees in the U.S., Asia, Middle East, including high value al Qaeda detainees in Iraq. He served as trainer for law enforcement, the intelligence community, and the military. He served as counter terrorism instructor for GIGN, CTSO, D88, US NAVY SEALS, Swiss Federal Police, NYPD, and the Australian Federal Police. He conducted field research in conflict zones including in Algeria, Egypt, Israel, Indonesia, Thailand, Philippines, Sri Lanka, Bangladesh, Kashmir, Pakistan, Afghanistan, Uzbekistan, and Colombia.

Author and editor of 12 books including “Inside Al Qaeda: Global Network of Terror” (Columbia University Press), an international bestseller, Gunaratna is also the lead author of Jane’s Counter Terrorism, a handbook for counter terrorism practitioners. His latest book with Michael Chandler, former Chairman of the UN Monitoring Group into the Mobility, Weapons and Finance is "Countering Terrorism: Can We Meet the Threat of Global Violence?” He also serves on the editorial boards of "Studies in Conflict and Terrorism" and "Terrorism and Political Violence," the leading academic journals in the field, and on the advisory council of “Policing, Intelligence and Counter Terrorism.”

A litigation consultant to the U.S. Department of Justice, Gunaratna was United States expert in the Jose Padilla trial.


and not everyone trusts his "insights", due to both his lack of real verifiable expertise as well his possible vested interest/bias:

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2003/07/20/1058545648013.html
(read the whole article)

Feel free to refute what I presented

Stundie

Jan 5 2009, 05:40 AM

albion

Jan 4 2009, 10:38 AM

Stundie

Jan 4 2009, 09:58 AM

Please reveal the mystery of why Osama never mentioned Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11?

We await your wisdom oh great Albion.

Sure thing:

Quote:

 

"Where did Al Qaeda spring from? And why did we begin to hear about it so recently, even though Osama bin Laden has been known of for far longer? The trap to be avoided here when evaluating Al Qaeda as an organization is the assumption that what drives terrorist groups is publicity in pursuit of their broader goal. If that were so, neatly typed communiques claiming responsibility for Al Qaeda attacks would have been sent to the press. Until 9/11 Osama bin Laden never used the term "Al Qaeda". nor did his close cohorts. Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one tha denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

- Rohan Gunaratna, "Inside Al Qaeda", 2002, p. 3, ISBN 0-231-12692-1

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Another classic example of failure. Where do you read this pap?? lol

"Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one that denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

It is certainly nothing to do with a secret, almost virtual, organization that denies it's own existence that this author and you are conjuring as an excuse as to why Osama never referred to his group as Al-Qaeda. This author makes it sound like Al-Qaeda is like the freemasons, illuminati or NWO?? lol

albion

Jan 5 2009, 02:13 PM

Stundie

Jan 5 2009, 05:40 AM

albion

Jan 4 2009, 10:38 AM

Stundie

Jan 4 2009, 09:58 AM

Please reveal the mystery of why Osama never mentioned Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11?

We await your wisdom oh great Albion.

Sure thing:

Quote:

 

"Where did Al Qaeda spring from? And why did we begin to hear about it so recently, even though Osama bin Laden has been known of for far longer? The trap to be avoided here when evaluating Al Qaeda as an organization is the assumption that what drives terrorist groups is publicity in pursuit of their broader goal. If that were so, neatly typed communiques claiming responsibility for Al Qaeda attacks would have been sent to the press. Until 9/11 Osama bin Laden never used the term "Al Qaeda". nor did his close cohorts. Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one tha denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

- Rohan Gunaratna, "Inside Al Qaeda", 2002, p. 3, ISBN 0-231-12692-1

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Another classic example of failure. Where do you read this pap?? lol

"Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one that denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

It is certainly nothing to do with a secret, almost virtual, organization that denies it's own existence that this author and you are conjuring as an excuse as to why Osama never referred to his group as Al-Qaeda. This author makes it sound like Al-Qaeda is like the freemasons, illuminati or NWO?? lol

Feel free to read his book and get back to us.

Stundie

Jan 4 2009, 09:58 AM

Please reveal the mystery of why Osama never mentioned Al-Qaeda prior to 9/11?

I got better things to do with my time than read propaganda about Al-Qaeda being a secret organisation! hahahahahahaha!!!

albion

Jan 5 2009, 09:49 PM

Albion

 

Propaganda? Who says it IS a secret organization? No one.

Albion

 

Better read the book and look at the copyright date, don't you agree?

Stundie

Jan 6 2009, 07:07 AM

albion

Jan 5 2009, 09:49 PM

Albion

 

Propaganda? Who says it IS a secret organization? No one.

OH MY GOD!!!

Some people have no shame......are you really this dumb or are you pretending and this is some kind of hobby for you? hahahahahaha!!

"Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one that denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows." - Rohan Gunaratna, "Inside Al Qaeda"

Who says it is a secret organisation, the very author you quoted from!! lol

Albion

 

More proof that reading comprehension is still not one of Stundie's strong points. Let's try again.

Albion

 

Stundie, good buddy, what date was the book published? Look carefully.

Albion

 

Now, who says it IS a secret organization?

Stundie

Jan 10 2009, 02:59 PM

Albion

 

More proof that reading comprehension is still not one of Stundie's strong points. Let's try again.

Yes, lets try again......

Cause if I had a problem with the comprehension, you would be more than willing and happy to make your point, yet you fail to do so.

Albion

 

Stundie, good buddy, what date was the book published? Look carefully.

After 9/11?? Sometime in 2002??

Albion

 

Now, who says it IS a secret organization?

The author of this book....Are you denying that he says that "Al Qaeda is above all else a secret, almost virtual, organization, one that denies it's own existence in order to remain in the shadows."

noeffects

Jan 11 2009, 10:47 AM

albion....7 posts later and still trying to make a point by having everyone read a book of your interest or checking out a publishing date. I think instead of frightening Stundie and telling people what time it is ...you could just post the friggin publishing date and why it is relevant.

noeffects

Jan 12 2009, 07:40 PM

8 posts later...