Rescue Worker: No Fires in WTC7

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Rescue Worker: No Fires in WTC7
Topic Started: Feb 17 2008, 11:37 PM (688 Views)
brinks	Feb 17 2008, 11:37 PM Post #1
Posts: 14 Group: Members Member #319 Joined: 02/15/08	Interesting? A volunteer Ground Zero rescue worker, J.D. Halpern, interviewed by Diane Sawyer says there were no fires in WTC7 before it fell. He also reports a lot of melted vehicles at Ground Zero. http://youtube.com/watch?v=zI5a2ENaH8Y&feature=related
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Lord Tsukasa	Feb 18 2008, 01:13 AM Post #2
Posts: 73 Group: Members Member #310 Joined: 02/11/08	Nice find, man!
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blarney fife	Feb 18 2008, 10:17 AM Post #3
Posts: 202 Group: Members Member #15 Joined: 01/14/08	Uh, he didn't say no fires before the collapse. He said there was none post collapse.
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brinks	Feb 18 2008, 12:46 PM Post #4
Posts: 14 Group: Members Member #319 Joined: 02/15/08	blarney fife Feb 18 2008, 10:17 AM Uh, he didn't say no fires before the collapse. He said there was none post collapse. You may be right. He may well be talking about it post collapse. The reason I thought he was talking about fires pre-collapse is his use of the past tense. He says there was - simple past tense - no fire but *it's* as in it *has* - present perfect simple tense - collapsed completely. Upon reviewing his testimony today I can see it looks as though he is talking about WTC7 post collapse, referring to WTC7 in it's present state e.g. it is completely collapsed.
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Trajan Octavian Titus	Feb 19 2008, 06:47 PM Post #5
Posts: 67 Group: Members Member #335 Joined: 02/19/08	Then what are these?
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JFK	Feb 19 2008, 07:06 PM Post #6
Posts: 4,177 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	Trajan Octavian Titus Feb 19 2008, 06:47 PM Then what are these? Looks like a fire pre collapse... You may want to reread the thread. BTW, Just what did start those fires ? And why were most confined to financial institutions within that building ?
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RKOwens4	Mar 3 2008, 05:54 PM Post #7
Posts: 66 Group: Skeptics Member #260 Joined: 02/02/08	Nice try, but the reporter asks him how much fire IS there, because he was JUST down there (and the video is at night). He says there was no fire at WTC7, clearly talking about when he was just down there. So what were the fire conditions like at the time the building collapsed? "7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved. It was unbelievable." –Firefighter Steve Modica "All forty-seven stories were on fire. It was wild." -Superintendant Charlie Vitchers "We were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable." –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade "there was fire on every floor." – Fire Captain Brenda Berkman "The flames were coming out of every window of that building" -Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy "The building was fully involved in fire." – Photographer Steve Spak "At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor" -FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti "When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories." –FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers Fire on all 47 floors? Doesn't sound like "no fires" to me. I guess the firefighters and photos are lying though, right? Most conspiracy theorists will show you photos of the building from the morning or early afternoon. At this point, fires were (obviously) just creeping through a few floors. But the fires burned completely unchecked for 7 hours and was fully involved at the time of its collapse. Don't allow yourself to be misled by photos taken hours before the building's collapse.
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Avenger	Mar 3 2008, 09:50 PM Post #8
Posts: 574 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: 01/14/08	Smoke, dude.
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Chris Sarns	Mar 4 2008, 02:37 AM Post #9
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #116 Joined: 01/17/08	RKOwens4 Mar 3 2008, 05:54 PM Nice try, but the reporter asks him how much fire IS there, because he was JUST down there (and the video is at night). He says there was no fire at WTC7, clearly talking about when he was just down there. So what were the fire conditions like at the time the building collapsed? Fire on all 47 floors? Doesn't sound like "no fires" to me. I guess the firefighters and photos are lying though, right? Most conspiracy theorists will show you photos of the building from the morning or early afternoon. At this point, fires were (obviously) just creeping through a few floors. But the fires burned completely unchecked for 7 hours and was fully involved at the time of its collapse. Don't allow yourself to be misled by photos taken hours before the building's collapse. Fire timeline in the east half of WTC 7 NIST L 22–26 11:30 a.m. to 2:30 p.m.: fire on floor 22 on south side fire on floor 12 burned west to east across the south side [there were no other fires reported in the east half of the south side] 2:00 to 2:30 p.m.: fires on floors 11 and 12 at SE corner, progressing north http://img262.imageshack.us/img262/7555/e40rv.jpg About 3:00 p.m., fires on floors 7 and 12 near the center of the north face The fire on floor 12 spread in both directions, eventually reaching the NE corner http://img410.imageshack.us/img410/3849/copyofnorthfacekj6.png http://img54.imageshack.us/img54/346/11kp0.jpg Sometime later, fires on floors 8 and 13 Fire on floor 8 eventually burned to NE corner and moved to east face http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/337/copyof3kt0.jpg Around 4:45 p.m., a photograph showed fires floors 7, 8, 9 and 11 near the middle of the north face. The fire on floor 12 had burned out by this time [NIST did not publish this photo] Fire on floor 8 had already burned this area out. The south west corner had fires on nearly every floor. The smoke [screen] obscures the south face. These fires had nothing to do with the implosion that began at the other end of the building. http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/6830/wtc7southwest4vc6.jpg More smoke screen info here: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/47142/1/#new
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Miragememories	Mar 4 2008, 01:15 PM Post #10
Posts: 756 Group: Members Member #40 Joined: 01/15/08	RKOwens4 Mar 3 2008, 05:54 PM Nice try, but the reporter asks him how much fire IS there, because he was JUST down there (and the video is at night). He says there was no fire at WTC7, clearly talking about when he was just down there. So what were the fire conditions like at the time the building collapsed? "7 World Trade was burning from the ground to the ceiling fully involved. It was unbelievable." –Firefighter Steve Modica "All forty-seven stories were on fire. It was wild." -Superintendant Charlie Vitchers "We were advised by a NYFD Chief that building #7 was burning out of control and imminent collapse was probable." –PAPD P.O. Edward McQuade "there was fire on every floor." – Fire Captain Brenda Berkman "The flames were coming out of every window of that building" -Firefighter Tiernach Cassidy "The building was fully involved in fire." – Photographer Steve Spak "At this point, the fire was going virtually on every floor" -FDNY Deputy Chief Nick Visconti "When the building came down it was completely involved in fire, all forty-seven stories." –FDNY Assistant Chief Harry Myers Fire on all 47 floors? Doesn't sound like "no fires" to me. I guess the firefighters and photos are lying though, right? Most conspiracy theorists will show you photos of the building from the morning or early afternoon. At this point, fires were (obviously) just creeping through a few floors. But the fires burned completely unchecked for 7 hours and was fully involved at the time of its collapse. Don't allow yourself to be misled by photos taken hours before the building's collapse. It's quite obvious that quotes like that are equating smoke projecting across the complete south face of WTC7 as representative of fire across the complete face of WTC7 (in other words, fire on every floor). That is patently absurd and only serves to illustrate the careless lack of concern shown in many of these quotes regarding any need to accurately describe the existing fires. MM
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honestjoe	May 1 2008, 05:14 PM Post #11
Posts: 46 Group: Members Member #521 Joined: 04/20/08	Here are some quotes from first responders that more accurately describe the fires and the events leading up to them. These Quotes are evidence of arson! According to a soldier at the scene, WTC Building 7 is evacuated before the second tower is hit. [Fort Detrick Standard, 10/18/2001] All individuals in the Secret Service’s New York field office, located in WTC 7, were ordered to evacuate after the first attack. [PCCW Newsletter, 3/2006] OEM Commissioner John Odermatt, said during an interview that after the first plane hit the WTC, he left only two staffers at the command center. [Barrett and Collins, 2006, pp. 34] No reason has been given for the speedy evacuation of WTC 7 or why they DIDN'T evacuate the South Tower but instead sent everyone back into the South Tower. #1. Why did they decide before the South Tower was hit that the “Bunker” was a greater risk to its occupants than the South Tower? In the Naudet film the fire department initially ordered the lobby of WTC7 to be set up as the triage area for any wounded evacuated from the North tower. But an order came down not to use WTC7 (from an unknown official) before the second plane struck. When the second attack occurred Fire Commissioner Thomas Von Essen arrived at WTC 7 before the collapse of the South Tower, looking for Mayor Giuliani. Learning that the OEM headquarters has been evacuated, he later claims that he thinks, “How ridiculous. We’ve got a thirteen-million-dollar command center and we can’t even use it.” [Essen, 2002, pp. 26] He says in frustration, “How can we be evacuating OEM? We really need it now.” He will later tell an interviewer that he’d headed for the OEM headquarters because, “I thought that was where we should all be because that’s what [it] was built for.” [Fink and Mathias, 2002, pp. 230] #2. What reason was given for the NYFD to relocate the triage area away from WTC7? The answer to both is because WTC7 was already on fire! Here are just to pictures of over a dozen that show WTC7 on fire before the collapse of the South Tower. Shows the fire location (before fire) of WTC7 before the false flag event: http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-8.jpg Shows the fire in WTC7 after the jet had struck the South Tower: http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-31.jpg Shows the fire in WTC7 before the collapse of the South Tower: http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-31.jpg Shows the fire even through all the dust after the South Tower collapsed: http://www.amanzafar.com/WTC/wtc-67.jpg This has been confirmed by Chief Hall, and Chief Morris, who decided not to establish a command post at WTC7 as planed because they had discovered it was already on fire before the “South” Tower collapsed. This is also confirmed by Lt. Dennis P. Stafford who had met up with Chief Hall, and Chief Morris to assist in the establishment of a command post. http://www.thememoryhole.org/911/pa-transcripts/pa-police-reports01.pdf Other accounts confirm that WTC7 was on fire before the South Tower had collapsed and had been evacuated immediately after the first plane had struck the North Tower come from Michael Hess, New York’s corporation counsel, and Barry Jennings, a City Housing Authority worker. Barry Jennings, a City Housing Authority worker, and Michael Hess, New York’s corporation counsel, went up to the emergency command center on the 23rd floor of WTC Building 7 after the first attack occurred. [Associated Press, 9/11/2001 However, Hess and Jennings reportedly find no one there which suggests the center is evacuated earlier than officially claimed. [Independent, 9/13/2001] Barry Jennings then starts making calls from the recently abandoned "bunker" and is then told (by phone) to get out of building 7 ASAP! At this point, according to Hess, the power goes out in the building so they then start walking down the stairs to get out as the elevators are no longer operating. (Note: officially the power outage was do to the second plane striking the South Tower) According to Hess, when the two men get down to the eighth floor, “there was an explosion and we’ve been trapped on the eighth floor with smoke, thick smoke, all around us, for about an hour and a half.” [UPN 9, 9/11/2001] Jennings similarly describes, “We made it to the eighth floor. Big explosion. Blew us back into the eighth floor, and I turned to Hess. I said, ‘This is it; we’re dead. We’re not gonna make it out of here.’” [Penn State Public Broadcasting, 3/1/2002] After breaking a window and calling for help, they were spotted by firefighters outside. When the firefighters go in, they also find a security officer for one of the businesses based in the building, who is trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. Why this guard did not evacuate earlier, along with the rest of WTC 7, is unknown. All three men are escorted out of the building. Associated Press, 9/11/2001; Giuliani, 2002, pp. 20-21 and 244; Penn State Public Broadcasting, 3/1/2002; National Institute of Standards and Technology, 6/2004, pp. L-18 ; National Institute of Standards and Technology, 9/2005, pp. 109-110 ] The cause of the explosion is unclear but it is absolutely certain that it was started before the South Tower collapsed therefore there is plenty of evidence to declare WTC7 an arson and begin investigating it as such.
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JFK	May 1 2008, 05:47 PM Post #12
Posts: 4,177 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	Good eye Joe. That would be the SEC and Provident Financial Management on fire, No ?
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honestjoe	May 1 2008, 10:50 PM Post #13
Posts: 46 Group: Members Member #521 Joined: 04/20/08	JFK May 1 2008, 05:47 PM Good eye Joe. That would be the SEC and Provident Financial Management on fire, No ? Yes, its quite a coincidence that the fire originates at the SEC office isn’t it? During a public meeting on the progress of the WTC7 report NIST said they do “NOT” know how the fires were initiated in WTC7. At one point, a participants asks NIST if the fires were initiated by the collapse of WTC2, and the NIST guy is ambiguous in his response. All they know is that there were fires, which may have been caused by the collapse and he goes on to say there are other forms of initiation, such as electrical outlets. NIST also makes clear at the meeting that the shutdown of the fire alarm in the morning really isn’t a big deal (this was also addressed in the conference) just like how they don’t think it matters how the fire was started. http://nasathermalimages.com/images/NIST_NCST_Advisory_Committee_Meeting_12-18-01.mp3 NIST has stated in their latest update on the progress of WTC7 investigation that the gas lines did not feed the fires or cause any explosions, that For WTC7, NIST said “it was a normal fire & no diesel fuel lines came into play”. I repeat the lead investigator said that the diesel fuel lines/diesel fuel have been ruled “OUT” as having any effect on the fire of WTC7! These fires were not strong, in fact they are apparently presumed by NIST to have been smoldering, approximately 20 minutes in place before moving on to the next place. With stronger fires (like with diesel) the burnables would have run out much faster. So diesel cannot come into play because NIST says that these long smoldering fires are what caused significant damage to the steel frame structure of the building. NOT a short hot and intense fire as with diesel but long smoldering fires. NIST describes a picture of fires smoldering in a building for 6 hours (but never getting intense for more than 20 minutes), thereby gradually and homogeneously heating up the steel frame structure of the building to the point that it collapses suddenly. That way when everyone says “But the physical samples of WTC7 steel showed low temperatures”, NIST can say exactly it was the low temperatures that allowed the fires to smolder for longer duration than that of much higher temperature fires thereby causing the WTC 7 to gradually and homogeneously heating up the steel frame structure of the building to the point that it suddenly collapses into its own foot print. And yes NIST says that WTC 7 fell neatly into its own foot print leaving what they call a small pile of debris! So to some it up, NIST at this time is saying that because the fires were much cooler than that of normal fires it caused the complete, (all 80 steel support columns), simultaneous collapse of WTC 7! And here is a blast from the past: “The head of the WTC collapse investigation says he “would possibly consider examining” the collapse of Building 7, but by this time all the rubble has already been removed and destroyed. [US Congress, 3/6/2002] “I have combed through our national standard for fire investigation, NFPA 921, but nowhere in it does one find an exemption allowing the destruction of evidence for buildings over 10 stories tall.” By Bill Manning Fire Engineering”
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