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| Is the Holy Grail a Spiritual Journey?; Update for you grail hunters | |
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| Topic Started: Feb 5 2008, 09:27 AM (135 Views) | |
| Comeoutofthecupboards | Feb 5 2008, 09:27 AM Post #1 |
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On Jan. 7 2008, on the old forum, I posted a message relating to something I had been experiencing. The first line were these: Is the Holy Grail a Spiritual Journey? In the summer of 2007, I began what I called meditating on the Y. I’m not sure why, I’m not sure how I came up with the idea. Initially, I thought I could make a book of ideas which related to now and the Y. ........................................ A couple of weeks ago a friend of mine told me to read the book 'The Power of Now' by Eckhart Tolle. I had told him about what had been happening to me but I'm pretty sure he wouldn't have made the connection between the two. On p52 Eckhart writes: "Find the narrow path that leads to life." It is called the Now. I searched the sentance in quotes and found the relevant passage in the bible, Matt 7: 13-14 (more references http://so4j.com/teachingsbible/narrowgate.html). Some of these passages mention the path leading to eternal life which connects with other grail stories. |
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| Robert Rice | Feb 5 2008, 12:38 PM Post #2 |
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Is the Holy Grail a Spiritual Journey? Yes, and we are the recepticle for the divine seed which is the word or logos of God made known. it's a matter of the heart, and of the soul. Every true Christian is therefore, the Holy Grail. 
Edited by Robert Rice, Feb 5 2008, 12:38 PM.
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| alexvegas | Feb 5 2008, 04:02 PM Post #3 |
alex25smash
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Are you intentionally trying to bring the truth world into disrepute? |
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| Comeoutofthecupboards | Feb 5 2008, 04:06 PM Post #4 |
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It's a subject which has captured the imagination of millions for hundreds of years. How can discussing it here be bringing the movement into disrepute (were you joking?) |
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| Shagata Ganai | Feb 5 2008, 04:41 PM Post #5 |
Multiple Criminal Theorist
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I'm not joking, and I feel that religious discussion would be best held elsewhere. It has no purpose under 911 Truth or current events or election 2008, or any of the other topics listed under the forum headings. Such discussions generally are divisive, and ultimately, futile, as proved by the multi-page discussions in the previous forum that left everyone with the same convictions with which they started the multi-day argument. 
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| Comeoutofthecupboards | Feb 5 2008, 05:08 PM Post #6 |
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A Bodhisattva is motivated by pure compassion and love. Their goal is to achieve the highest level of being: that of a Buddha. Bodhisattva is a Sanskrit term which translates as: Bodhi [enlightenment] and sattva [being]. And their reason for becoming a Buddha is to help others. The Bodhisattva will undergo any type of suffering to help another sentient being, whether a tiny insect or a huge mammal. In Shakyamuni Buddha’s 'Perfection of Wisdom in 8,000 Lines' it states: “I will become a savior to all those beings, I will release them from all their sufferings.” If this sounds familiar to anyone not acquainted with Buddhism, then you only need to think of the example of Jesus Christ, a true Bodhisattva. |
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| Shagata Ganai | Feb 5 2008, 06:07 PM Post #7 |
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Multiple Criminal Theorist
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As I stated before, religious discussions have no useful place here. I chose that "title" because I love Steely Dan, ( and also understood the concept), and thought it might be provocative in an interesting way. My S/N is an anglicization of the Japanese for "it makes no difference". JC was a man of royal blood, who married royalty, Making him king of the Jews. He was killled in a manner reserved for enemies of the state (Rome), had kids, and, in all likelyhood, did not die on the cross. See? I believe all that to be as factually accurate as we are able to get to date. But I am sure I'm in the minority. |
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| alexvegas | Feb 6 2008, 06:26 AM Post #8 |
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alex25smash
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I was not joking in the least. Talking about an imaginary story for which there is no evidence, and at the same time trying to tell the world about a very hard to believe situation we may find ourselves in, does no good whatsoever for the cause. |
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| Robert Rice | Feb 6 2008, 01:51 PM Post #9 |
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Well, even if he was mythologized to a degree (to what degree we cannot be sure), the person of Jesus is extraordinary, someone for whom it was deemed appropriate to think of as the son of God. What gets me is how many people have bought into the Zeitgeist bullshit as proof that there was no such person as Jesus. These people are not familiar with the gospels (have not studied them), and fail to recognize the validity of Paul's (Saul of Tarsus) testimony, or, that he was a contemporary of Peter's (lived a the same time). Aside from the gentiles believing, to think of all these Jews converting to and following Jesus, unto death, makes no sense, nor the fact that the Entire Roman Empire had to Christianize to remain viable as a world power. The problem most people have with it, isn't the character and the teachings of Jesus, but what I call "churchianity" and the abuse of power that the Roman Catholic Church has committed as the "authority". Any real study of it reveals the nature of the clash with sin and evil that Jesus couragiously confronted, relative to the elite power structure of his day. Personally I think we can learn from him, as a point of inspiration. To do so, and to effectively interpret what the Bible is saying, takes discernment and a philosophical mind, something which many people do not possess, so they watch Zeitgeist and then write the whole thing off as a fairy tale, which I think is sad, and a waste of prescious insight. Edited by Robert Rice, Feb 6 2008, 01:52 PM.
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| alexvegas | Feb 6 2008, 02:39 PM Post #10 |
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alex25smash
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Is it surprising that people fail to recognise the the validity of Paul's testimony, when he claims it came to him in a vision while he was all alone? |
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| Robert Rice | Feb 6 2008, 02:58 PM Post #11 |
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One must also consider Paul's own position within the entire Jewish framework, as Saul of Tarsus, and his motivations, since he was on his way to kill and imprison them all with a vengeance, and his interpretations thereafter, from within the same framework, would also need to be examined to determine the value of the meaning of his interpretations and frame of reference regarding Jesus. If his experience was psychotic or delusional, or a lie, one would expect that his "frame of reference" wouldn't make much sense either, and so, like Jesus, Paul needs to be examined with a critical eye as to his authenticity and the validity of his frame of reference and interpretation of it's meaning and significance. In other words, if he was deluded, one would not expect his entire premise to hold water, in the same way that if Jesus was a liar or a madman, other areas of his teaching would betray his character. I like how Zeitgeist's creator, when I queried him on this at 911blogger simply wrote Paul off as someone who was suffering from frontal lobe epilepsy - it just doesn't jive with Paul's writings and teachings, nor his change of heart, and newfound submission to this sect he hated and persecuted with all his being. And Paul was a contemporary to (lived at the same time) as Peter, and so those writings (Pauls) must themselves be viewed in direct relation to a living witness and follower of the actual person of Jesus, and so the gospels must be viewed historically in relation to Acts, and to the writings of Paul. Am I saying that the Jesus story must therefore be accepted in it's entirety as historical biography, no. What I am suggesting is that there was something about the nature of this person, who, if mythologized at all, everyone felt that it was entirely appropriate to do so. The trick is to penetrate the mist, to get to this person, this character, and try to see things from his point of view or perspective. Personally I see our own present day struggle in terms not entirely dissimilar from that of Jesus own clash with the "powers and principalities" of his day, and furthermore, no matter what "works" Jesus performed, the meaning inherent in his cross cannot be denied or underestimated, once again, given the framing and the context of his act. If meaningful, then by extension it is of the farthest reaching importance and implication, the idea of Jesus as the "passover lamb of God" offering himself and his life as an atonment (at-one-ment) for the salvation of the individual, and the many. To understand these things imho, requires an understanding of the internal psychological makeup and reality of the human being as set apart from the animal kingdom and embued with free will as a type of implicate rendering of a much larger reality, on the very ground of being and becoming. In my view, Jesus, properly understood, even in psychological and metaphysical terms, represents something extraordinary about the human being, as an arrow of civilized progress, and as the embodiment of the universal man who was made, by design, to serve as an expression of the Godhead whereby the only thing that "eats" man, is death itself, and so it has to do with certain metaphysical realities at the apex of life, and a final wedge issue involving a confrontation with the root and source of all sin and evil, which is nothing more or less than separation from the holiness of God which is perfect, and which, by "His" very nature, cannot and will not compromise with sin and evil, serving as a final judgement, which I believe is both unavoidable, and woven right into the very nature of reality itself (sin is cleaved away and discarded as uninformative, as unfruitful or perishable, and where the price of sin is death, or eternal separation from the Godhead as the center and source of all life, and the creative principal of life itself) Jesus, and his cross, needs to be viewed in terms of what Athur Shopenhauer referred to as "the intentionality of fate in the unfolding of life's journey". Bottom line, there IS something to it all, provided that the inquirer has the capacity to explore it with an open mind, free of contempt, prior to investigation. Best Regards, RR P.S. The GOOD news, is that if the cross is a fateful rendering of the final judgement of God, then what we see there, is a pathway back to God, where we who were at enmity with God as the center and the source and the living "spirit of the universe" and who deserved a judgement of death, find life meeting life, and a judgement which is merciful, and loving. This is the free gift of the salvation of the cross of Jesus Christ. The only think that is offensive about it, really, is that it represents an offence to the pride of man who would prefer to believe that he can engineer his own salvation and walk out of a sinful past simply by trial and error, therefafter maintaining perfect integrity, relative to the twin dragon of should, and should not, and to God as the law giver, and here I am referring not to a set of rules per se, but to the law of life and love, which is intrinsic. If you are a rebel with a cause like I am, you might want to revisit the Jesus issue, while at the same time, differentiating the truth about it, from the strict and unloving doctrin of "churchianity" who oftentimes, and with regards to the Roman Catholic Church, have in so many ways hijacked, as a point of authority, and therefore of control. It's a final wedge, like a double edged sword from the mouth of Christ, which cuts both ways. Edited by Robert Rice, Feb 6 2008, 03:30 PM.
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| fortuneteller | Feb 7 2008, 01:46 AM Post #12 |
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Is the holy grail a spiritual story ? no, it is one of many tales of immortality, fountain of youth, healing of the sick, etc. we found the fountain of youth, check out that book written by susann summers. half of hollywood is using growth hormone, adreanaline, and other wholistic medicines, hormones, to stay young and disease-resistant. |
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| Bongo Thud | Feb 7 2008, 02:06 AM Post #13 |
Libertarian Atheist
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Are you serious? There is absolutely no contemporaneous historical record / evidence of the man you call jesus christ. Edited by Bongo Thud, Feb 7 2008, 02:18 AM.
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| Comeoutofthecupboards | Feb 7 2008, 07:58 AM Post #14 |
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RR I have problems with the traditional idea of God and have become interested in the concept of collective consciousness. I was trying to find one reference to it but came across this (something else I've been thinking about): The mathematician explains that he spent considerable time and energy trying to resolve a long standing problem concerning Fuchsian functions. All his efforts seemed futile. In his own words, Poincare tells of leaving Caen on a geological field trip; he evidently was serving as a consultant for the School of Mines at the university. He recalled that the task at hand took his mind off mathematics. During the course of his journey, Poincare notes that he was boarding a bus: "At the moment when I put my foot on the step, the idea came to me.... I did not verify the idea; I should not have had time... but I felt a perfect certainty"61 Poincare later tested his idea and confirmed that it was in fact correct. Penrose then offers his analysis of this important event in Poincare's life as a mathematician. Like so many others described in Hadamard's book, "... this complicated and profound idea apparently came to Poincaré in a flash, while his conscious thoughts seemed to be quite elsewhere, and that they were accompanied by this feeling of certainty that they were correct ...."62 These ideas were not simple concepts and would have been exceedingly difficult to express in words. As a mathematician, Penrose estimates it would have taken about an hour to explain his insight to a gathering of professional mathematicians. What is critical to notice here is that the idea came to Poincare "fully formed", and not gradually. He understood the whole thing in an instant and knew for certain the idea was correct. Evidently his previous involved thoughts on the subject had resolved themselves.63 Not all spiritual experience results in visions of angels. Mysticism can have content, and when it does we call it genius. http://www.heaven-words.com/55.htm I've had this book 'A Vision of an Aquarian Age' on my book shelf for sometime without reading it. I wondered the other day where the concept for the 'Aquarian Age' originated and began to read the book. In the first chapter Trevelyn says this: "The inner core of man, that which in each of us might be called spirit, is a droplet of the divine source." http://www.sirgeorgetrevelyan.org.uk/books/thtbk-VAA01.html Do you read about/experience collective consciousness? Edited by Comeoutofthecupboards, Feb 7 2008, 08:01 AM.
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| Robert Rice | Feb 7 2008, 03:54 PM Post #15 |
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Yes, I'm totally into it. In fact I believe that the "revelation of the sons of God" for which all creation is "groaning in travail" is the final manifestation of the God/Cosmic collective consciousness you are referring to. The impetus and the stimulant, or the catalyst is the love of Jesus Christ, which is synonumous with the "spirit of the universe". The flow of information, which this mathematician tapped, that's the holy spirit which is embued with infinite intelligence, something the mind itself is only a substrate for, or the riders seat if you will, whereby there is always a fundamental relationship between both subjective observer and objective reality, and between the inquirer, and the source of all truth. It is also a familial relationship in history between a lover and a beloved other, and this relationship is the first cause. In this way, all creation was made for the son. Thus, the "revelation of the sons of God" involves a whole new gateway of new possibility on the very ground of all being and becoming, and within that space or realm of new creation, resides the holy of holies of God, the unconditioned ground of being, wherefrom all inspiration springs eternal. So this collective consciousness, it's both innerant and transcendant, and man the final expression of the apex of God's intentionality towards his own creation. When we get the "clearing" all the angles of the heavens, right across the entire spectrum of being and becoming, shout for joy, that the one lost sheep is found, the prodigal son returned home at last. This is the Christian mystery, which places man at the very center of the heart of things.. |
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