| Welcome! You're currently viewing our forum as a guest. This means you are limited to certain areas of the board and there are some features you can't use. If you join our community, you'll be able to access member-only sections, and use many member-only features such as customizing your profile, sending personal messages, and voting in polls. Registration is simple, fast, and completely free. Join our community! |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
| The Labor and Planning; Inside Job vs. Terrorists | |
|---|---|
| Topic Started: Feb 3 2008, 02:34 AM (617 Views) | |
| no family | Feb 3 2008, 02:34 AM Post #1 |
|
MikeyMetz recently posted this...
...which reminded me of something I posted on the old forums: It would cost the US government more money ( more everything actually) planning, executing, and covering-up 9/11 than it would Al Qaeda. One reason is that Al Qaeda doesn't have to cover-up anything. But the US governemnt does, while at the same time maintaining a working government for the people, even if it's just for "the appearance of". ----------------------------------------------------------------------------- Here's what Al Qaeda had to do: -recruit hijackers who hate Americans (lots of blood-thristy potential suicide bombers to choose from) -pay for flight training -do the flight training -become familiar with the location and appearance of the targets -steal identities (Im sure some of you have been a victim of this one - I know I have) -plan the coordination of the attacks (airline's schedules, itinerary) -pay for the hijackers transportation, food, hotel, etc -buy some plane tickets -board the planes -violently jump out of your seat and attack some off-guard, untrained, disoriented, helpless passengers -raid the cockpit and kill the pilots -put the flight training to use (you wont have to land, nor must you takeoff) ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- But the United States Government has to: -find many, many, many people who have the stomach for killing an estimated 3,000 innocent human beings (people who did not provoke attacks - these are not casualties of a war) -find a few Americans who, if the price is right, are willing to have their own family members killed and be a part of this government conspiracy -tell these people what your plan is and hope they keep their mouth shut without becoming a whistle-blower -make sure these people are competent in their various jobs relating to carrying out the plot -pay them lots of money to not only follow through with all this, but keep their mouth shut for life (this is probably the most expensive part) -secure "fake?" airplanes -pay various emergency response officials to lie or ignore certain things -pay various media outlets to lie, cover-up, ignore certain things (and hope to God they dont ultimately realize that blowing the lid off 9/11 would be the biggest news story in human history) -design or find bombs that wont be found -deliver them to the locations without being noticed -hide various bombs in various buildings without being noticed -hope to god that nobody finds those bombs after they are planted (it could be days, even weeks between planting the bombs and detonating them, all the while people will be working near them - office workers, maintenance, etc) -find or build fake plane wreckage -store fake plane wreckage where no one will find it -plant fake plane wreckage without anyone seeing you do so -kidnap the actual passengers of United 93???? -force them to call their families and make up stories??? -use voice enhancers so that you sound like the real passengers as you call their families???? -hold the real passengers against their will in a hidden location???? -kill the real passengers and completely hide the evidence, including their bodies??? -willfully demolish lower manhattan -willfully damage the pentagon -come up with cover-up stories (like for example, damaging the pentagon with a missle, but, for some reason, say it was a plane) -pay various US military officials to stand down -seriously screw up your own economy on mulitple levels -pray EVERY SINGLE NIGHT that all of the sensitive materials & documents that were in the buildings you bombed were all completely destroyed (they might be buried and not been found yet, like some of the bodies) -pray EVERY SINGLE NIGHT that nobody involved is ever arrested for some kind of (unrelated to 9/11) government corruption and decides to blow the whistle in exchange for immunity. -pray EVERY SINGLE NIGHT that nobody involved realizes, on their own, what they are a part of and decides to blow the whistle -pray EVERY SINGLE NIGHT that nobody involved realizes what they are a part of and decides to commit suicide out of severe guilt (it happens) and leaves behind the incriminating evidence of a US government conspiracy to plan, execute and cover-up the unprecedanted 9/11 attacks of 2001 -finally...refelct....think to yourself - was it all worth it? Did we achieve our goal by going through all this trouble? Was THIS the best way to reach that goal? Was this the only way to do it? I really hope we didnt go out of our way. But, when it comes to planting fake WMD evidence in Iraq, the US decides not to, and as a result, allow themselves to look like COMPLETE IDIOTS, going down in history as making governmental fools out of themselves - really think about this one - you just went through all the trouble of 9/11 - but you dont plant fake WMD evidence in Iraq? Edited by no family, Feb 3 2008, 02:37 AM.
|
 |
|
| Headspin | Feb 3 2008, 07:10 AM Post #2 |
|
How do you know the US government decided not to plant WMD? The sybil edmonds story is looking more like they did try to take WMD through Turkey into iraq, but were caught by Valerie Plames Company Brewster Jennings which was a CIA front company tasked with seeking out the illegal trade in WMD. The Niger documents/Joe Wilson explanation for outing Valerie Plame could just be a limited hangout. As for the rather cartoonish speculation, have you considered that Al Queada and the US Government might have a common intersection via the CIA? or does your mind only work in binary? |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 4 2008, 09:30 AM Post #3 |
|
Could you please elaborate on Bin Laden - CIA connections. |
|
|
|
| JFK | Feb 4 2008, 10:06 AM Post #4 |
|
Tim Osman - google it. or a humorious view - http://www.crooksandliars.com/Media/Play/20616/1/TDS-America-Rescue.wmv |
|
|
|
| HeyLeroy | Feb 4 2008, 11:56 AM Post #5 |
|
About a year ago I posted this to several forums. I received a lot of personal attacks, but no one ever took a stab at answering the questions:
|
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 4 2008, 02:25 PM Post #6 |
|
Hi JFK Do you have a good source for "Tim Osman". All I can find is unsourced information from Alex Jones and other 911 truth movementeurs. Thanks |
|
|
|
| look-up | Feb 4 2008, 02:58 PM Post #7 |
|
no family. all of your assumptions are based on ad hominem attacks, and there is no reason to think that the "US government" and "Al-qeida" had a meeting to decide who could more cost-effectively pull off the attack, so you really have no points. we have never said innocent people have participated, except by saying that sometimes people participate in small ways without even realizing it. I dont' see how that is disrespectful. HeyLeroy: Just because a particular method was used in one or all "known" c.d's does not mean that in these "covert" c.d's that other methods weren't used. You would seem to be saying that the same firm with the same directive would have to have been used in Detroit and WTC. That is a fallacy of logic. Also, we know for sure that thermite was used in the basement of the WTC, which means that the supports very litterally were "TORCH CUT". You don't have to gut the interior of a building before demolishing it. It is done so that more debris is not sent flying outwards at onlookers, and so that components like wire and calbling can be recycled or reused. It does not mean that "A building cannot be demolished if it still has cabling and wiring." All you'd have to do in a larger structure like the WTC towers is to take your classic demolition sequence and reverse it, more or less, doing top down instead (to make it look like something other than C.D.) and up the quantity and magnitude of explosives used, to make sure that any errors in calculation are made on the side of blowing it up TOO MUCH, rather than NOT ENOUGH. |
|
|
|
| HeyLeroy | Feb 4 2008, 03:21 PM Post #8 |
|
How much explosive was used to bring down those three buildings? How many separate charges were required? How many non-electric delays were required? Where was all this blasting equipment hidden, along with approximately 30 (4.3X) to 52 (7.5X) miles of detonation cord? How were charges set on the structural steel on the outsides of the buildings without being detected? |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 4 2008, 03:53 PM Post #9 |
|
"no family. all of your assumptions are based on ad hominem attacks, and there is no reason to think that the "US government" and "Al-qeida" had a meeting to decide who could more cost-effectively pull off the attack, so you really have no points." - Could you point out some of those ad hominem attacks for us please. I am still not sure where these U.S. Government and Bin Laden links are. Maybe JFK will find some info for me. There is plenty of reason to believe that they would not have had a meeting, if I am not mistaken it was that whole terrorism thing. HeyLeroy: Just because a particular method was used in one or all "known" c.d's does not mean that in these "covert" c.d's that other methods weren't used. You would seem to be saying that the same firm with the same directive would have to have been used in Detroit and WTC. That is a fallacy of logic. - Thinking that the basement would be prepped for demolition when the mechanism of collapse occured at the point of impact is "a fallacy of logic" Also, we know for sure that thermite was used in the basement of the WTC, which means that the supports very litterally were "TORCH CUT". - You know for sure? We have pictures of workers torch cutting the collumns so they could be removed for the rescue effort. I believe those are the same pictures you use to justify thermite. But if you know for sure maybe you could gives us a link to the device that could contain the thermite while it cuts huge collumns. You don't have to gut the interior of a building before demolishing it. It is done so that more debris is not sent flying outwards at onlookers, and so that components like wire and calbling can be recycled or reused. It does not mean that "A building cannot be demolished if it still has cabling and wiring." - You still have to rip the walls apart, prep the steel and place your charges. All you'd have to do in a larger structure like the WTC towers is to take your classic demolition sequence and reverse it, more or less, doing top down instead (to make it look like something other than C.D.) and up the quantity and magnitude of explosives used, to make sure that any errors in calculation are made on the side of blowing it up TOO MUCH, rather than NOT ENOUGH. - Then you have to make a system that can set off the charges unsequenced and with out any wires. Lets not forget that everyone would be able to hear the explosions so you have to find a way of eliminating this. |
|
|
|
| JFK | Feb 4 2008, 04:34 PM Post #10 |
|
My link to the original documents no longer works.... However, this is a copy of the relivant page from my archives.  Perhaps another FOIA request is in order. |
|
|
|
| HeyLeroy | Feb 4 2008, 07:01 PM Post #11 |
|
That's quite a gamble: trying out a revolutionary, untested scheme to explosively demolish a building on two of the largest buildings on the planet. And for bonus points, throw in the stipulation that it all has to be pulled off surreptitiously, and it's absolutely positively gotta look like the collapses start at exactly the points where they're gonna crash two jetliners because there are nineteen innocent men of Middle-eastern extraction that they're gonna frame. Huh. Swingin' for the lights on the first pitch.
That's not what I'm saying, at all. A fallacy of logic would be to see how much work would be necessary to demolish those buildings and, with absolutely none of the debris expected to be found in a controlled demolition using explosives, claim 'they must've figured out some spooky new technique!'
Umm, huh? How on earth can you say that you know "for sure"? There's no evidence at all that any therm?te was planted in the basements. How can therm?te cut sideways?
As the world witnessed, a building will produce a mighty great dust-cloud when it collapses while still containing office equipment, drywall, etc. However the primary reason that building interiors are gutted before collapses are induced upon them it to gain access to the supporting structure of a building. One can't simply drop a shoulder bag or briefcase next to a column and expect an explosive charge hidden within to cut said column. Steel columns must be cut almost through before a shaped-charge finishes the job. Remember the first time terrorists tried taking out the World Trade Center? No access to the supporting structure means no ability to plant charges. A side benefit is the recycling of salvaged materiel. It's just silly to suggest that recovering waste materiel for profit is a prime motivating factor in the gutting of a building being prepped for demolition.
Yet those large quantities of explosives were planted exactly where the planes impacted, and survived the fires? Can you explain which types of explosives could've withstood the fires? Yet no sound sequences even remotely similar to what's heard during real controlled demolitions with explosives were recorded that day? Can you tell me which types of explosives, that have been 'upped' in both quantity and magnitude, could've been used silently?  Edited by HeyLeroy, Feb 4 2008, 07:04 PM.
|
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 4 2008, 07:39 PM Post #12 |
|
hi, you know of the origin and history of the Afghan Mujahadeen right? and the CIA, saudi and pakistani sponsorship right? What do you mean? what grounds are there for speculating this? 
|
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 4 2008, 08:45 PM Post #13 |
|
Bin laden under the name Tim Osman came to the US in 1986 according to this article: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/binladin_timosman.htm Jim Marrs says that Ted Gunderson has confirmed that the meeting took place. http://tedgunderson.com/ http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Conspiracy-Deception-Loss-Liberty/dp/1932857435/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1202175606&sr=8-1 |
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 5 2008, 08:05 AM Post #14 |
|
September 23, 2001, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette 'How a holy war against the Soviets turned on the US' In 1986, Director of Central Intelligence William Casey stepped up the war against the Soviet Union by taking three significant, but at that time highly secret, measures. He persuaded the U.S. Congress to provide the Afghan fighters known as Mujaheddin, "holy warriors" in Arabic, with American-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to shoot down Soviet planes and to send U.S. advisers to train the guerrillas. Until then, no U.S.-made weapons or personnel had been used directly in the war effort. U.S.-financed weapons provided to the Afghans until then had been generally of Warsaw Pact manufacture, to provide deniability of U.S. support for the Mujaheddin. The CIA, Britain's MI6 intelligence service and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) also agreed on a provocative plan to launch guerrilla attacks into the then Soviet Republics of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan, the soft Muslim underbelly of the Soviet state from where Soviet troops in Afghanistan received their supplies... Casey was delighted with the news, and on his next secret trip to Pakistan crossed the border into Afghanistan with the late Pakistani President Zia al-Haq to meet the Mujaheddin groups... Third, Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI initiative to recruit radical Muslims from around the world to come to Pakistan and fight alongside the Afghan Mujaheddin. The ISI had promoted this idea since 1982, and by now all the other players had their reasons for supporting it." From the October 2001 Idaho Observer: Osama bin CIA? by Hari Heath As our nation rallies to condemn our latest made for TV enemy, the “terrorist” Osama bin Laden, do we really know who this guy is? Who cast him in his current starring role? Just ask yourself, who is writing the script? Allegedly, bin Laden is the mastermind and financier behind the “attack on America,” but who is behind bin Laden? Over and over, through suggestive sound bytes and video clips, the mental image of our new enemy has been ingrained in our collective mind. Gullible believers that we are, the urgent press from an all points media erodes any memory we may have of bin Laden's historical alliance with the more clandestine aspects of our own government. The Pakistanis want proof of bin Laden's connection to the terrorist attacks in the U. S. before they will allow their country to be used as a staging ground for American retaliation. Where's the evidence? This important question remains unanswered. President Bush's answer was, “I believe that we will be shown to be right.” Is that an answer? We are told that providing the evidence would compromise U. S. security interests and reveal sources within our security agencies. What would the evidence reveal? Is Osama bin Laden one of our own operatives gone rogue? Worse yet, was he trained in one of our clandestine terrorist training camps and then cut loose, once his value as a CIA asset was diminished? How many more like him have been abandoned? Some answers to these questions are found in excerpts from: “Taliban: Militant Islam, Oil and Fundamentalism in Central Asia” (Yale University Press) by Ahmed Rashid. Between 1982 and 1992, some 35,000 Muslim radicals from 43 Islamic countries trained and fought with the Afghan Mujaheddin. The CIA, Britain's MI6 and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) initiated a plan to launch guerrilla attacks into the Soviet Socialist Republics of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan. Thousands more came to train in the hundreds of military training camps in Pakistan and along the Afghan border. These camps became virtual universities for future Islamic radicalism. The CIA, under the Direction of William Casey, stepped up the war against the Soviet Union in 1986 by persuading the U.S. Congress to provide the Mujaheddin with American-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to shoot down Soviet planes and provide U.S. advisers to train the guerrillas. Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI initiative to recruit radical Muslims from around the world to come to Pakistan and fight with the Afghan Mujaheddin. Apparently, none of the intelligence agencies involved considered the consequences of bringing together thousands of Islamic radicals from all over the world. These Islamic volunteers have their own agendas and have now turned their hatred against the Soviets towards Americans. The war left a legacy of expert and experienced fighters, training camps and logistical facilities, elaborate Trans-Islam networks of personal and organizational relationships, a substantial amount of military equipment including 300 to 500 unaccounted-for Stinger missiles, and a sense of power and self-confidence over what had been achieved. Among these thousands of foreign recruits was a young Saudi student, Osama bin Laden. He first traveled to Peshawar in 1980 and met the Mujaheddin leaders, returning frequently with Saudi donations for the cause until 1982, when he decided to settle in Peshawar. He brought in his company of engineers and heavy construction equipment to help build roads and depots for the Mujaheddin. In 1986, he <Bin Laden> helped build the Khost tunnel complex, that the CIA was funding as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical center for the Mujaheddin, deep under the mountains close to the Pakistan border. For the first time in Khost he set up his own training camp for Arab Afghans, who now increasingly saw this lanky, wealthy and charismatic Saudi as their leader. After the war against the Soviets, bin Laden left for Sudan to take part in the Islamic revolution there. Bin Laden's continued criticism of the Saudi Royal Family eventually annoyed them so much that they took the unprecedented step of revoking his citizenship in 1994. In May 1996, Bin Laden traveled back to Afghanistan, with an entourage of dozens of Arab militants, bodyguards and family members, including three wives and 13 children. Here he lived under the protection of the Jalalabad Shura, until the conquest of Kabul and Jalalabad by the Taliban in September 1996. In August 1996, he had issued his first declaration of jihad against the Americans, whom he said were occupying Saudi Arabia. “The walls of oppression and humiliation cannot be demolished except in a rain of bullets,” the declaration read. Striking up a friendship with Mullah Omar, in 1997 he moved to Kandahar, Afghanistan, and came under the protection of the Taliban. By now, the CIA realized “their” problem and set up a special cell to monitor the “terrorist” they helped to create. A U.S. State Department report in August, 1996, noted that Bin Laden was “one of the most significant financial sponsors of Islamic extremist activities in the world.” The report said that Bin Laden was financing terrorist camps in Somalia, Egypt, Sudan, Yemen, Egypt and Afghanistan. In early 1997, the CIA sent a squad to Peshawar to carry out a snatch operation and get Bin Laden out of Afghanistan, but they aborted the operation. After failing to solve the problem they created, the US offered a $5-million reward in November 1998 for Bin Laden's capture. What do we really know about Osama bin Laden? Given the information subterfuge coming from our made-for-TV war on terrorism and the media machinations behind it, will we ever know the truth? Obscure video clips and allegations without evidence provide more questions than answers. Is bin Laden a patsy, pawn or a terrorist? So far it seems to be just another game of pin the tail on some other donkey. http://proliberty.com/observer/20011005.htm |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 5 2008, 09:00 AM Post #15 |
|
Well there is a lot of bullshit to expose here so I will do my best not to make it too long. "In 1986, Director of Central Intelligence William Casey stepped up the war against the Soviet Union by taking three significant, but at that time highly secret, measures. He persuaded the U.S. Congress to provide the Afghan fighters known as Mujaheddin, "holy warriors" in Arabic, with American-made Stinger anti-aircraft missiles to shoot down Soviet planes and to send U.S. advisers to train the guerrillas." - The Stinger missiles were provided to the rebels. Massoud who was the CIA's "dirty little secret" needed them because new soviet helicopters were causing heavy casualties. In 1986 congress was already providing funding to the effort. The money left over from the defense budget had been given to the CIA to route to the ISI. The year I think the reporter is talking about is 1985 when the CIA boosted there funding to 250 million, between 1980 and 1984 combined funding was 200 million. "The CIA, Britain's MI6 intelligence service and Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency (ISI) also agreed on a provocative plan to launch guerrilla attacks into the then Soviet Republics of Tajikistan and Uzbekistan" - The CIA did not agree to this, One of there agent unofficially agreed to it. Reagan alone had the authority to O.K. operations within the Soviet Union. However sending a couple of Mujahedin over the border to rally support for action was not something he was willing to do. "Casey committed CIA support to a long-standing ISI initiative to recruit radical Muslims from around the world to come to Pakistan and fight alongside the Afghan Mujaheddin. The ISI had promoted this idea since 1982, and by now all the other players had their reasons for supporting it." - This couldn't be more wrong, They CIA and ISI did not need to recruit these people most of them just came. The reporter is getting two events mixed up. Bin Laden heavily recruited outcasts from local countries to come and fight as Muslim Jihadist. These recruits were paid a salary out of Bin Ladens pockets. The Muslim Jihadist were introduced to Qutb's writtings and the idea of martyrdom. Mujahedin for the most part were confused about Bin Ladens men. Mujahedin were fighting for Afghanistan and Islam, Jihadist were fighting to die. I will get to the other story in a bit, I dont want this to get to long. |
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 5 2008, 09:30 AM Post #16 |
|
the author is Ahmed Rashid, what are your credentials, or are you just another JREF dick? http://www.ahmedrashid.com/ Ahmed Rashid, a Pakistani journalist based in Lahore was the the Pakistan, Afghanistan and Central Asia correspondent for the ‘Far Eastern Economic Review,’ for 22 years until the magazine was recently closed down. He presently writes for the ‘Daily Telegraph,’ London, the ‘International Herald Tribune’, the ‘New York Review of Books,’ ‘BBC Online,’ ‘The Nation,’ Lahore and academic and foreign affairs journals. He appears regularly on international TV and radio such as CNN and BBC World Service. His earlier book ‘Taliban: Islam, Oil and the new Great Game in Central Asia,’’ was published by I.B.Tauris (2000) in London and Yale University Press in the US and has been a world wide best seller. It has been translated into 26 languages and 1.5 million English language copies alone have been sold since September 11. For five weeks it was No.1 on the New York Times best-seller non-fiction list and numerous other best selling lists in Europe and the US. Five years on the book is still a course book at over 200 US universities and colleges. His latest book ‘Jihad, The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia’ was published in February 2002 by Yale University Press and has been translated into 15 languages. In 2003 it was published in paperback by Penguin Books and has also become a course book for universities throughout the US, Europe and Japan. Rashid is a co-author of ‘’Islam and Central Asia. An enduring legacy or an evolving threat ?’’ edited by Roald Sagdeev and Susan Eisenhower, Centre for Political and Strategic Studies, Washington, September 2000. He is a co-author of ‘Fundamentalism Reborn, Afghanistan and the Taliban,’ edited by William Maley, published by C.Hurst,1998. His first book ‘’The Resurgence of Central Asia: Islam or Nationalism ? ‘’ about the break up of the Soviet Union was published by Zed Books, London and New York in 1994. In 2001 he was awarded the Nisar Osmani ‘Award for Courage in Journalism,’ by the Human Rights Society of Pakistan. ‘’Taliban’’ won the ‘British-Kuwait Society for Middle Eastern Studies’ book prize in 2001. In April 2002 he was given ‘The Media Personality of the Year’ award by Britain’s ‘Ethnic Multicultural Media Awards’ and in May he came joint second for ‘The Daniel Pearl Award for Outstanding story on South Asia,’ given by the ‘South Asian Journalists Association of the US.’ He is a member of the Advisory Board of Eurasia Net of the Soros Foundation, a scholar of the Davos World Economic Forum and a consultant for Human Rights Watch. In 2004 he was appointed to the Board of Advisers to the International Committee of the Red Cross in Geneva for a period of four years. He has addressed numerous universities, think tanks and international meetings around the world. In November 2002 at the invitation of UN Secretary General Kofi Annan, he became the first journalist to address the UN General Assembly on the commemoration of the signing of the Bonn agreement on Afghanistan. In September 2003 he addressed NATO Ambassadors in Brussels on the situation in Afghanistan. In January 2002 he established the ‘’Open Media Fund for Afghanistan’’ (OMFA), which gives cash grants to newly starting independent print media in Afghanistan. So far it has distributed over US 300,000 dollars to over two dozen newspaper and magazine start ups all over Afghanistan publishing in Dari, Pushto and Uzbek. OMFA is a US registered charity and is managed by the Soros Foundation in New York and the Foundation for Civil Society and Culture in Kabul. OMFA has received contributions from Time-Warner, the Soros Foundation, Carnegie Corporation, Rockefeller Foundation, Dow Jones, the John D. and Catherine T. MacArthur Foundation and other European media outlets. It has an eight member Board of Trustees. Ahmed Rashid was born in Rawalpindi,Pakistan in 1948 and was educated at Malvern College England, Government College Lahore and at Fitzwilliam College, Cambridge University. He lives in Lahore with his wife and two children. |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 5 2008, 09:54 AM Post #17 |
|
His credentials do not change that he is mixing events. I suggest you read Ghost Wars or The Looming Towers. You can campare credentials if you wish. No I am not a "JREF dick" I am just a guy who doesn't base my opinions on a paper that somones kid has scribbled on or a guy with a hard on for gay sex scandles. Anyways we should consider starting a new thread I think we are derailing this one. |
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 5 2008, 11:26 AM Post #18 |
|
I suggest you drop the smear and shear tactics and present some evidence or sources for your claims and rebuttals or i'll have to assume you're making it up - the pertinent information demonstrating bin laden's connection to the CIA which you did not rebut was bolded. I don't see it as a derailment, the original post is presenting two mutually exclusive situations which I am rejecting as too simplistic. Information that "Al queada" and the US government have historical connections has been presented here, I personally think the historical connection is a done deal, I would go much further (but there is little point at this time if you dispute the historical connection). You asked for information and then you mock the source which is typical of the childish JREF hivants. I don't blindly accept the Tim Osman info, but neither do i reject it. On the face it looks like disinfo, however LAPD detective Michael Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon (page 157) mentions a book The last Circle which Ruppert claims is "meticulously researched and documented". Chapter 6 confirms the Tim Osman story. http://www.lycaeum.org/books/books/last_circle/0.htm |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 5 2008, 02:17 PM Post #19 |
|
Hi Headspin, Your Bolded claims are generalities made about Mujahedin, - I dont think that you understand that Bin Laden was not officially Mujahedin and he was far from representing them. Bin Laden had his own extencive training programs and was funding his effort out of pocket. The CIA wanted to make sure that money was being routed to leaders who were getting results, Bin Laden did not make the cut. With your knowledge maybe you could enlighten us on some of Bin Ladens battles In 1986, he <Bin Laden> helped build the Khost tunnel complex, that the CIA was funding as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical center for the Mujaheddin, deep under the mountains close to the Pakistan border. - All of the CIA's effort happened inside of the Pakistani boarder over fear the Russia could find substantial links and retaliate. The CIA did send agents across the boarder to establish links outside of ISI controll These agents were always watching to make sure KGB did not catch on to them. Maybe you could clear this up when we talk about khost tunnels are we talking about the "lions den"? The only support for this story seems to come from Ahmed Rashid himself. Many of the stories floating around the internet source your article or do not source at all. Among these thousands of foreign recruits was a young Saudi student, Osama bin Laden. He first traveled to Peshawar in 1980 and met the Mujaheddin leaders - Bin laden was not a recruit, he wanted to see first hand what was happening. He later went back and started his own recruitment. I don't blindly accept the Tim Osman info, but neither do i reject it. On the face it looks like disinfo, however LAPD detective Michael Ruppert in Crossing the Rubicon (page 157) mentions a book The last Circle which Ruppert claims is "meticulously researched and documented". Chapter 6 confirms the Tim Osman story. - The only info that Carol Marshall gives out is Gunderson's. I will look past his gay sex scandle work and see what else he says about the matter. But I am a little hesitant to accept a book talking about the NWO taking out 4/5's of the worlds population in order to rule the planet as a truly well researched book. Like I said take a gander at Ghost Wars or the Looming Towers if you would like a broader look into the conflict. I am not sure about Ahmed Rashid I will check out his info some more but he wrote his article days after 911 and tried so summarize the events in 2 pages. I would like to pick up one of his newer books now that he has had more time to research the subject. "You asked for information and then you mock the source which is typical of the childish JREF hivants." - Yes any normal person would look at Gundersons site would say "this guy knows his shit" right. Sorry It took so long to reply I am working and doing this at the same time. If you dont think we are derailling this thread then we will continue. |
|
|
|
| JFK | Feb 5 2008, 02:30 PM Post #20 |
|
Are you aware of the "Georgia Guidestones" ? If not, you should google that "tourist attraction". |
|
|
|
| defaultdotxbe | Feb 5 2008, 03:02 PM Post #21 |
|
so the NWO put up the georgia guidestones? because i could have sworn it was a single person who remain anonymous to this day |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 5 2008, 03:04 PM Post #22 |
|
Hi JFK. I am a little confused, This appears to be an expensive joke. There is a weaping statue down the road from me I will try to find a link for you. |
|
|
|
| truckin_with_christ | Feb 5 2008, 03:08 PM Post #23 |
|
Sorry JFK, no website but here is some guy talking about it http://www.domestic-church.com/CONTENT.DCC/19980901/ARTICLES/MONKEY_B.HTM |
|
|
|
| Headspin | Feb 5 2008, 03:58 PM Post #24 |
|
They are not my claims. They are not "generalities". They are not claims about the Mujahideen. They are very specific claims made by a very credible journalist regarding Osama Bin Laden and the CIA who has interviewed many of the top Taleban officials, and has reported on the region for 30 years. "He brought in engineers from his father's company and heavy construction equipment to build roads and warehouses for the Mujaheddin. In 1986, he helped build a CIA-financed tunnel complex, to serve as a major arms storage depot, training facility and medical center for the Mujaheddin, deep under the mountains close to the Pakistan border." - Ahmed Rashid Where do you think the Russians thought the Stinger Missiles came from? We is good guys, we is clever, dem is bad guys, dem is stupid, you paint it like a bad world war II film! No. |
|
|
|
| JFK | Feb 5 2008, 04:16 PM Post #25 |
|
Indeed... Whose expences, and who would benefit from such a "joke" ? What I find interesting the timeframe of that erection by "Mr. Christian". What I find absolutely amazing is that very few "tourists" actually "get" the implications of what is inscribed on those rocks. If you are in a room with 7 people total for the inscription to come true, 6 would have to die. As far as the weeping statues, yes, I am aware of 4 of them globally since the early 70's. I have no opinion on those. And sorry for taking this thread off topic, but I do feel this is a small but important piece of the overall puzzle. |
|
|
|
| 1 user reading this topic (1 Guest and 0 Anonymous) | |
| Go to Next Page | |
| « Previous Topic · Skeptics · Next Topic » |
- Pages:
- 1
- 2
9:40 PM Dec 4
