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| Flight experience of Hijackers? | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Sep 19 2008, 05:11 AM (1,017 Views) | |
| brad ford | Sep 19 2008, 05:11 AM Post #1 |
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Hello this is my first post in this forum so greetings to all! I have read several books on 9/11 and watched many films on the subject. One thing I have never been sure about is how much flying experience the alleged hijackers had. I know several of them had flying lessons in schools in the U.S but was that it? Does anyone know if any of those people had actually flown a large airliner before? If their only flight experience was some lessons in light aircraft I find it somewhat miraculous that they could take over the controls of commercial airliners like 737's and fly them with pinpoint accuracy into specific buildings. I have never flown a plane but there must be a world of difference between flying cessnas or pipers and actually taking over a large Boeing. I hope this was posted in the right forum and that someone can enlighten me further. |
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| ShaDow | Sep 19 2008, 09:30 AM Post #2 |
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Imagine riding a bike to a bus? and extremely little experience. Well one was a fighter jet pilot but he did no flying apparently. |
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| French St | Sep 19 2008, 04:13 PM Post #3 |
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"brad ford" You can make researches with these links : 1) Hani Hanjour (the alleged pilot of flight 77 which hit the pentagon): http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/53603/1/ http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=hani_hanjour http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hani_Hanjour 2) Mohamed Atta ((the alleged pilot of flight 11 which hit the North Tower) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Atta http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=mohamed_atta 3) Marwan al-Shehhi ((the alleged pilot of flight 175 which hit the south Tower) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marwan_al-Shehhi http://www.historycommons.org/timeline.jsp?the_alleged_9/11_hijackers=marwanAlshehhi&timeline=complete_911_timeline 4) For Mohamed Atta and Marwan al-Shehhi, see: http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=pan_am_international_flight_school Quotes of this last link: "Having finished their flight training at Huffman Aviation and passed their commercial pilot license tests (see August 14-December 19, 2000), Mohamed Atta and Marwan Alshehhi spend December 29 and 30 at the SimCenter flight school at Opa-Locka Airport, near Miami. Saying they want to join an Egyptian airline and need experience in a large plane, they each pay $1,500 in cash and spend six hours, split over the two days, training in the school’s Boeing 727 simulator. Henry George, the school’s owner who trains them, describes their training as a “mini, mini introduction,” and they spend most of their time practicing maneuvers and turns. George later describes Atta and Alshehhi as “average pilots,” and says they are “quite ordinary. They were respectful and quiet almost to the point of being shy."The FBI claims that Atta and Alshehhi spend December 31 at Pan Am International, also in Opa-Locka, training on a Boeing 767 simulator there. [US Congress, 9/26/2002; United States of America v. Zacarias Moussaoui, a/k/a Shaqil, a/k/a Abu Khalid al Sahrawi, Defendant, 3/7/2006]" http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/2002_hr/092602mueller.html Quote of FBI DIRECTOR ROBERT S. MUELLER: "In September 2000, al-Shehhi and Atta continued their flight training at Jones Aviation in Sarasota, Florida but failed their Stage I flight test. From December 29, 2000 through December 31, 2000, Al-Shehhi and Atta took flight simulator lessons at Sim Center and Pan Am International. Both signed up for time on a Boeing 727 and a Boeing 767 simulator." http://cryptome.quintessenz.at/mirror/usa-v-zm-030706-02.htm "Yet no other reports, including the 9/11 Commission Report, mention this. The South Florida Sun-Sentinel specifically claims the alleged hijackers “never approached Pan Am,” although it does not say how it arrived at this conclusion. It points out that, in contrast to the 767s they allegedly pilot on 9/11, the 727 Atta and Alshehhi train to fly at the SimCenter “is a rather old three-engine jet with an old-fashioned cockpit, including a cramped instrument panel loaded down with small dials, knobs and gauges.… But the 767 and 757 have highly sophisticated ‘glass cockpits,’ featuring video screens and digital readouts, and requiring an advanced level of computer skills.” Furthermore, according to Steven Wallach, an aviation consultant and former airline captain, if the hijackers “took the controls at high altitude and a long distance from their targets, then they likely had considerable training in a 767 or 757. They would have had to descend and navigate to Washington and New York. They would have had to know how to operate the autopilot, as well as other intricate functions.” However, “if the hijackers took over the controls at the last moment, that would indicate a minimum of 767-757 training.” [South Florida Sun-Sentinel, 9/22/2001] http://web.archive.org/web/20040227061008/http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/columnists/sfl-kaye922,0,6869866.column SimCenter owner Henry George claims, “I suppose Atta had just enough training to keep the plane in the air—how to make turns and move it up and down. He could not, however, have taxied a 757 or 767 from the gate, got it airborne or landed it safely.” [Daily Telegraph, 9/14/2001] http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/1340519/FBI-tracks-down-the-Florida-lair-of-flying-school-terrorists.html " Several professional pilots gave their point of view concerning the difficulty of piloting maneuvers supposed to have been accomplished by terrorist pilots for the attack of the pentagon or of the twin towers, see notably: 1) patriotsquestion911.com: 120+ Pilots and Aviation Professionals http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html 2) Video:"Pilots Discuss Difficulty of WTC Attacks" : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm58cPH8L78 "Professional Pilots Rob Balsamo and FAA Authorized Flight Examiner/Check Airman Dan Govatos discuss the difficulty of the WTC attacks as well as attempts to duplicate the attack in an Airline Simulator on tnrlive.com. Capt. Dan Govatos ) Commercial airline pilot. Formerly Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines; Director of Operations Training at Polar Air Cargo; Assistant Chief Pilot for Presidential Air; Manager of Flying for Eastern Airlines. Aircraft flown: Boeing 737, Airbus A300, Dassault Falcon 50 and Falcon 900, Gulfstream G-200m, and Cessna C-500. 10,000+ total hours flown. Dan Govatos: On 9/11, I was actually in the simulator training a class of new pilots. ... And we come out for a break and 9/11 is happening. Planes had hit the Tower. ... We were all -- just horrified and upset. ... We decided to go back into the simulator the next day. And after their sim training period, I said "Hey, guys, let's try something. Let's see if we can hit these buildings, like we saw happen." This was in a 737, a smaller, lot more maneuverable airplane. And so I set it up for these pilots. And, you know, keep in mind these pilots have many years of experience. I set up New York. And they all just took turns trying to hit the buildings. And they couldn't do it unless they slowed down to almost landing speeds. Rob Balsamo: Wow I didn't know that! ... . Dan Govatos: They could not hit those buildings at the high speeds. They couldn't do it. ... . People don't realize that to fly -- to hand fly an airliner at those speeds is extremely difficult. It's very hard to hand fly an airplane at those speeds, particularly if you're a novice. Because a novice that's learned -- all their experience is on little airplanes, they over-control everything. You got to understand going 300 knots in an airliner; and you move the controls like you would expect to do in a little airplane. Well, I mean you couldn't stand the G-forces. Everything has to be just finger-tip controls. (Editor's note: NIST estimates Flight 11 hit the WTC North Tower at 440 mph or 382 knots. NIST estimates Flight 175 hit the South Tower at 540 mph or 470 knots)" 3) Nila Sagadevan "The Impossibility of Flying Heavy Aircraft Without Training" http://www.venusproject.com/ethics_in_action/911_Impossible_Flying_757.html 4) Point of view of a German pilot : http://gerhard-wisnewski-de.site-preview.net/Terrorismus/News/Gespraech-Airline-Pilot-glaubt-nicht-an-offizielle-9/11-Version.html Other Videos: 1) Russ Wittenberg http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LQv99gQukKU http://video.google.fr/videoplay?docid=-6448452933753229616&ei=8AvUSKuoKKKs2wLK3-3eBg&q=Zero%3A+an+investigation+into+9%2F11+mp4 2) Ralph Kolstad http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jXXBamBulqI&feature=related 3) Nila Sagadevan http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA9Z4wyFk7Q |
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| brad ford | Sep 20 2008, 04:39 AM Post #4 |
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Thanks a lot, French St. That's very interesting and comprehensive information. |
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| tower | Sep 24 2008, 09:40 AM Post #5 |
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Another good read is http://911research.wtc7.net/disinfo/deceptions/badpilots.html Hani Hanjour, the person who supposedly piloted a Boeing 757 200 into the Pentagon was a terrible pilot. ""He didn't care about the fact that he couldn't get through the course." 1 Rick Garza, a flight instructor at Sorbi's Flying Club, had this to say about the two alleged hijackers originally thought to have piloted Flight 77, Khalid al-Mihdar and Nawaq al-Hamzi: "It was like Dumb and Dumber, I mean, they were clueless. It was clear they were never going to make it as pilots." In the second week of August 2001, Hanjour had attempted to rent a small plane from an airport in Bowie, MD. Flight instructors Sheri Baxter and Ben Conner declined his request, after taking Hanjour on three test runs, noting he had trouble controlling and landing the Cessna 172. Though Hanjour had attended a flight school in Scottsdale, AZ, for four months in 1996 and 1997, he never completed the coursework for a single-engine aircraft license." Also worth noticing is the fact that remotely controlled planes existed long before 9/11. http://www.boeing.com/commercial/757family/pf/pf_200back.html "The 757-200 flight deck, designed for two-crewmember operation, pioneered the use of digital electronics and advanced displays. Those offer increased reliability and advanced features compared to older electro-mechanical instruments. A fully integrated flight management computer system (FMCS) provides for automatic guidance and control of the 757-200 from immediately after takeoff to final approach and landing. Linking together digital processors controlling navigation, guidance and engine thrust, the flight management system ensures that the aircraft flies the most efficient route and flight profile for reduced fuel consumption, flight time and crew workload." http://www.boeing.com/commercial/aeromagazine/aero_05/textonly/ps02txt.html "The NDB, which is quite familiar to operators, is a database of navigation and route information used by the FMC to carry out navigation tasks. NDB software is typically revised every 28 days and becomes available approximately one week before it becomes effective. Unlike other loadable software, the NDB is date controlled as opposed to part number controlled. " http://web.archive.org/web/20020202182133/http://www.chicagotribune.com/technology/chi-0109280208sep28.story "The military has been flying planes and landing them safely by remote control for years, but airline pilots say questions about security must be answered before that technology is used aboard commercial jetliners to thwart hijackers the way President Bush suggested Thursday during a speech in Chicago." "General Atomics Aeronautical Systems Inc. developed a remote-controlled reconnaissance plane for the Air Force called Predator, which flew in Bosnia during the conflict there. Used by the military since 1994, it can be landed by pilots linked by satellite using controls on the ground or ordering an onboard computer to do the job." |
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