Reinforcing the ACTUAL C-130 flight path

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Reinforcing the ACTUAL C-130 flight path; ...and DC flight path of attack jet
Topic Started: Aug 29 2008, 11:03 AM (1,192 Views)
Aldo Marquis CIT	Aug 29 2008, 11:03 AM Post #1
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	His account about flying north and west by the south side of the mall is more in line with Morningside One DP: http://204.108.4.16/d-tpp/0801/00561MORNINGSIDE.PDF It says he could "expect radar vectors" on runway 1L/1R after his departure north. It says radar vectors are required within 10 nautical miles from departure. It makes sense that he received a radar vector to the west after he flew north for 3 to 5 nautical miles. 4 to 5 nautical miles is within 10 nautical miles. This fits with his description of flying north and west which took them by the south side of the mall. Not the south side of Reagan. His flight plan was to take him north and west to MN, ending up over PA both of which are north and west either way. Remember, the RADES data was released right after I started piecing together his account and publishing it publically. The RADES flight path takes him through the Reagan approach corridor which also doesn't make much sense as noted by Pilot Rob Balsamo. P56 DOES ALLOW flight paths on the south side of the mall and certainly does not restrict it. In fact, that would take him right towards the end of the departure flight path for Reagan, where planes fly up river and out of the area, banking sometimes west and certainly north I am sure. He would have continued north and west toward MN. The RADES flight path takes him southwest. Let's not forget, -Steve Chaconas did NOT see a C-130 only THE jet approaching from the east side of the Potomac from the NW. -Mineta/Belger place the plane DRA near the USA Today building in Rosslyn -Joe Hurst, Joseph Candelario, Gen Clyde Vaughn, Stuart Artman saw the plane in DC skies. -Ari Fleischer admits there was another flight path that took the plane towards the white house and not well SW of it as the NTSB/RADES data attempts to depict. Quote: Sources say the hijacked jet continued east at a high speed toward the city, but flew several miles south of the restricted airspace around the White House. [...] At the White House Friday, spokesman Ari Fleischer saw it a different way. "That is not the radar data that we have seen," Fleischer said, adding, "The plane was headed toward the White House." http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/11/...ain310721.shtml -ATC Danielle O'Brien was sure the plane "over-shot" or over missed the White House. Quote: O'Brien went to the Pentagon to see what happened for herself, making her ever more certain that the Pentagon was a secondary target, and that the hijackers overshot or missed the White House. "I've been down to the Pentagon and stood on the hillside and imagined where, according to what I saw on the radar, that flight would have come from," she says. "And I think that they came eastbound and because sun was in their eyes that morning, and because the White House was beyond a grove of trees, I think they couldn't see it. It was too fast. They came over that Pentagon or saw it just in front of them. You can't miss the Pentagon. It's so telltale by its shape and its size, and they said, 'Look, there it is. Take that. Get that.' They certainly could have had the White House if they had seen it." http://abcnews.go.com/2020/Story?id=124266&page=3 or http://abcnews.go.com/2020/story?id=123822&page=1 -Col Deskins reports the radar terminating over Washington DC: Quote: Poster 22205: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8721198283922671798 IMPORTANT note at 15:20 minutes video time of the above clip: Colonel Deskins, a lady radar person (with air force uniform), from the New York Command Center (of norad) comes on: -and she very SPECIFICALLY describes the last maneuver of the plane. whats KEY in her exact quote is this (bolded): Quote: "we caught, on the radar scope, a few blips, maybe 7 or 8 (hands showing the spiral maneuver motion in correspondence with these radar dots), just enough to kinda go around in a half circle and then fade, eh - losing radar contact - RIGHT OVER um, WASHINGTON." -Colin Scoggins (and Kevin Nesapany) place the/an unidentified plane SE & east of the White House/Potomac. Quote: Scoggins: Just to report, be advised the aircraft is 4-6 miles SE (southeast) of the White House. Huntress: 6 miles SOUTHEAST of the White House? Scoggins: Yup Huntress: He's moving away? Apparently Colin Scoggins recieved this information based on a VISUAL from FAA HQ in Washington DC!!! “I was on aTELCON and there were people who were actually looking at their window and saw the plane, they were speaking it verbatim on the phone to the TELCON. So it was a visual encounter, I assume they were in FAA HQ on Independence AVE. I know one persons name who was there and according to a USA article on around 9/20/01 I have an idea who said it on the phone, and he is the same person that I received the Phantom 11 call on.” “I don't know what office window they were looking from, I've always felt it was FAA HQ […] I am 99 % sure that the statement was made by visual... Not to mention, If you watch the BBC interview with him, he pulls out the map and says... Quote: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9ag6brfWro "Well here's a chart of the Washington DC area... That's Andrews Air Force Base right here... We departed out of Andrews, climbed to 3000 ft which took us by the south side of the mall." Narrator: Lt. Col. O'Brien was on a routine flight, but as he flew over Central Washington* air traffic control reported an unidentified jet fast approaching on his left hand side.* And again, the narrator said as "Flight AA77 descended in a wide turn over the Capitol* and lined up with it's target there was a military C-130...flying above Washington DC".* Clearly the BBC interviewed him and understood what he had explained to them, because they mention central DC several times. Quote: "and as he moved to our 11 o' clock position..." http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/11oclock.jpg "he started his turn..." http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/11oclockbank.jpg "and by the time he got to our 12 O'clock position, right out the front of the aircraft," http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/12oclock.jpg "uh he was rolled up into 30-40 degrees of bank which is considerable for a commercial airliner." http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/12oclockrollbank.jpg Note he said "and as he moved to our 11 o' clock position he started his turn..." He STARTED his turn as he moved to O'Brien's 11 O'Clock position. As you can see in the NTSB animation, the plane was ALWAYS IN A "TURN" or the bank that ends up being 30-45 degrees of bank at one point. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aP3EMnCx4y Furthermore, when they finally discussed the C-130's role Lt. Col Kenneth states that the decoy jet was heading into Washington at an angle (the 30-45 degree bank)... A C-130 cargo plane had departed Andrews Air Force Base en route to Minnesota that morning and reported seeing an airliner heading into Washington"at an unusual angle," said Lt. Col. Kenneth McClellan, a Pentagon spokesman. Quote: I was in FOB-8 (FDA) about 3 blocks from the Capitol, watching CNN on my PC because I had been told by a colleague across the hall that a plane had hit the WTC. (Our Center runs CNN off a Netshow encoder 24/7 so we can get news on the network.) I watched the second plane hit the WTC and shortly after that my wife called to tell me there was smoke showing from further down the Mall in the direction of the Whitehouse. (The Whitehouse is in the same direction as the Pentagon from our location at the foot of Capitol Hill.) There were then many rumors spreading in the hallway that car bombs had gone off on the Hill and near the State Dept, supposedly smoke was showing there as well. We now know that the car bomb rumors were false. My Team Leader came in to say as he was coming in to the building, he saw a 757 flying in a peculiar location roughly over the Mall. (We now know that was the 757 that hit the Pentagon as it did circle downtown DC, supposedly looking for a target, possibly the Whitehouse which is not as easy to pick out from the air as the Capitol or the Pentagon, before heading west again, then turning east for its final run at the Pentagon.) About that time, I suspected that there might be other hijacked aircraft targeting other buildings in the area (remember, we thought there might have been car bombs going off too at this point) so I walked across the hall to the lab of the colleague who initially told me the WTC had been hit by an aircraft. Looking out of the north facing 4th floor window, I saw the outline of a 747-400 flying slowly south to north nearly directly over head at a low altitude. Planes never flew there as it is restricted airspace, almost over the Capitol. As it turned over NE DC, roughly Union Station I guess, and banked east, the sun hit the pale colored paint and I could see that it was an Air Force E-4 and not a commercial 747. It was going so slow, it appeared to hang in the air over the Hubert Humphrey (HHS) building (across the street from FOB-8). For a moment it crossed my mind that such an aircraft carries much more fuel and could do considerably more damage than the aircraft that had hit the WTC (at this time it was being reported that those aircraft were commuter planes, we didn't know for sure they were 767's, though the outline sure looked like it to me when I saw the second one disappear into the building on CNN). Us chemists were already thinking of fuel loads and explosive equivalents, combustion temperature, melting point of steel, etc. when we watched the first tower collapse. (I'm hazy in my recall of the exact time we watched this relative to the Pentagon crash.) http://forums.techguy.org/archive/index.php/t-72752.htm Edited by Aldo Marquis CIT, Aug 29 2008, 12:02 PM.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Aug 29 2008, 11:18 AM Post #2
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Please show me ONE eyewitness to this... Just one... please.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Aug 29 2008, 11:48 AM Post #3
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Here is a screen cap from the Tribby Video, a little crude, but it seems to be the same conclusion Caustic Logic reached back on Feb 12 2008... Caustic Logic: Undertow of http://www.aa77fdr.com studied the Bruce Looney photos from Ft McNair and, unlike the pseudoskeptics, he actually used ground landmarks to figure out where the plane was at... Quote: Well okay. Here's what I think after studying these pictures. They show a C-130 in 3 photos. I have located his position as well as one of the buildings seen behind the tree line. This GE map is marked up as follows: Yellow Line - Camera spot Yellow Circle - Bldg ID'd, white round top L.Blue Line - duh Red Lines - These are the approx view angle from the camer to the C130 seen in the pictures, actual distance from camera and altitude unknown. Lower line - C130 is perpendicular to camera, imo most likely behind the plume. Upper Line - C130 is traveling directly away from camera or nearly directly away. Here is picture 160 (2nd in series) with a picture of the bldg I ID'd in the photo. I have also taken picture 161 (1st C130 picture) and shrunk it's size to match photo 160, then pasted it over the top of the plume. I took pic 162, cropped, resized , and transparent overlay it over the pic 160 as well. I added a black line under the C130 (?) in this picture. pic 163 overlayed as well. timestamps added to pieces. This gives rough accurate composite of what it looked like I believe. These shots show it flying away to the northwest (exactly where it came from), not the west as the fabricated RADES data shows... http://www.aa77fdr.com/PentFtMcnair/162.jpg http://www.aa77fdr.com/PentFtMcnair/163.jpg http://www.aa77fdr.com/PentFtMcnair/164.jpg Done and Done.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 11:15 AM Post #4
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	From Rob Balsamo over at Pilots for 9/11 Truth: Quote: Just came across this little gem.... The following is an ATC strip assigned to the C-130. Notice the "TL270" on the strip. That is a heading vector. Why would ATC note a heading vector if the Camp Springs One was assigned for departure and the Camp Springs already calls for 270 heading? Answer is, they wouldnt, they would only note a vector if assigned a departure which calls for vectors, The Morningside One. So, lets recap. ANC witnesses place the C-130 approaching from the NW. O'Brien claims he passed "south of the mall" (not south of DCA), and the ATC strip notes a vector. Camp Springs was not assigned to Gopher06 (for obvious reason explained ad nauseum on this forum, eg. morning rush hour into DCA). The govt story and those who make excuse for it have imploded once again. No wonder they wish to remain anonymous and create new internet userID's when their old ones are fully discredited. (also note the 1333 in the lower right, i believe that is the wheels off time, several to many minutes after the national ground stop depending on which source you believe, Spencer or the State Dept) http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=14417&st=0&#entry10772222 Edited by Aldo Marquis CIT, Jun 4 2009, 11:24 AM.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 12:51 PM Post #5
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	bump
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Boonedoggled	Jun 4 2009, 02:30 PM Post #6
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 12:51 PM bump Bump for what/whom?
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 02:31 PM Post #7
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	To keep it on the top of the page and not buried by the April Gallop thread. Why do you ask? Why are you concerned?
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Boonedoggled	Jun 4 2009, 02:41 PM Post #8
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 02:31 PM To keep it on the top of the page and not buried by the April Gallop thread. Why do you ask? Why are you concerned? Just curious ole buddy, ole pal.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 02:52 PM Post #9
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	You're a curious little fella aren't ya? Did you have anything to add or did you want to pretend this doesn't exist also? You coming to the presentation in Arlington, VA? Edited by Aldo Marquis CIT, Jun 4 2009, 02:54 PM.
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Boonedoggled	Jun 4 2009, 03:18 PM Post #10
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 02:52 PM You're a curious little fella aren't ya? Did you have anything to add or did you want to pretend this doesn't exist also? You coming to the presentation in Arlington, VA? I'm afraid that I'll miss you guys in Arlington, it's a bad time of year for me to travel. I know it exists, I posted it over at ATS five days ago. Or are you referring to Rob's professional analysis?
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 05:11 PM Post #11
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Uh yeah, Rob's professional analysis.
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Boonedoggled	Jun 4 2009, 05:20 PM Post #12
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 05:11 PM Uh yeah, Rob's professional analysis. Rob is claiming that "TL 270" represents a vector after departure and not a departure instruction. Never happened, not with the GOFER 06, nor WORD 31. You've heard the recordings.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 4 2009, 05:56 PM Post #13
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Boonedoggled Jun 4 2009, 05:20 PM Never happened, not with the GOFER 06, nor WORD 31. You've heard the recordings. Boone, it happened. Recordings provided by the culprits themselves AFTER we discovered their blunder don't count as real evidence. You know that you baby blood drinking, swinger party havin traitor.
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JFK	Jun 4 2009, 06:36 PM Post #14
Posts: 4,225 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	Attack the argument, not the poster Aldo.
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Boonedoggled	Jun 4 2009, 06:49 PM Post #15
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 05:56 PM Boonedoggled Jun 4 2009, 05:20 PM Never happened, not with the GOFER 06, nor WORD 31. You've heard the recordings. Boone, it happened. Recordings provided by the culprits themselves AFTER we discovered their blunder don't count as real evidence. You know that you baby blood drinking, swinger party havin traitor. Aldo, is the fact that they were released after you got involved in the movement the only reason you dismiss their validity? The commission staffers were using the recordings for timelines back in 2003 and 2004. Don't be a hater.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jun 8 2009, 11:49 AM Post #16
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Boone being handled here by Pilots for 9/11 Truth: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=17377&st=0
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Boonedoggled	Jul 26 2009, 09:29 PM Post #17
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jun 4 2009, 11:15 AM From Rob Balsamo over at Pilots for 9/11 Truth: Quote: Just came across this little gem.... The following is an ATC strip assigned to the C-130. Notice the "TL270" on the strip. That is a heading vector. Why would ATC note a heading vector if the Camp Springs One was assigned for departure and the Camp Springs already calls for 270 heading? Answer is, they wouldnt, they would only note a vector if assigned a departure which calls for vectors, The Morningside One. So, lets recap. ANC witnesses place the C-130 approaching from the NW. O'Brien claims he passed "south of the mall" (not south of DCA), and the ATC strip notes a vector. Camp Springs was not assigned to Gopher06 (for obvious reason explained ad nauseum on this forum, eg. morning rush hour into DCA). The govt story and those who make excuse for it have imploded once again. No wonder they wish to remain anonymous and create new internet userID's when their old ones are fully discredited. (also note the 1333 in the lower right, i believe that is the wheels off time, several to many minutes after the national ground stop depending on which source you believe, Spencer or the State Dept) http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=14417&st=0&#entry10772222 Aldo, O'Brien was assigned Camp Springs One prior to departure despite what others have tried to explain away "ad nauseum" and there was no "vector." So, let's recap: We have a standard departure procedure, a pilot that claims he departed to the West, four independent radar tracks, two other westbound departures that flew the same route out of Andrews, and a recorded conversation between clearance delivery and the C-130 in which the C-130 is instructed to turn to a heading of 270° after departing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGUlN86I9Jc
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 27 2009, 11:52 AM Post #18
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	LOL, ok Boone. So regardless of what we have shown you and what numerous eyewitnesses corroborate, you are just going to reaffirm everything with a jedi mind trick? Ok Boone, whatever you say. You (and Farmer) must have been assigned to the the C-130 flight path part of the operation that clearly became compromised. Carry on, Mr. Operative.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 27 2009, 12:00 PM Post #19
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Remember everyone, all of this "data" came out AFTER and BECAUSE OF what we were doing and uncovering. That should be a red flag why they are going so hard to establish this bullshit flight path. It is the same reason O'Brien clammed up.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 27 2009, 02:35 PM Post #20
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	And once again as Pilots for 9/11 Truth co-founder Rob Balsamo points out: Quote: The Camp Springs One was not assigned. Its not in the ATC strip, nor the verbal clearance. The verbal clearance conflicts with the ATC Strip clearance. "Within 3 DME" is not on the ATC Strip. Where is the cover letter for the FOIA? I dont trust anything that comes from Farmer or an anonymous internet source. Especially with conflicts.
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Boonedoggled	Jul 27 2009, 06:54 PM Post #21
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo Marquis CIT Jul 27 2009, 02:35 PM And once again as Pilots for 9/11 Truth co-founder Rob Balsamo points out: Quote: The Camp Springs One was not assigned. Its not in the ATC strip, nor the verbal clearance. The verbal clearance conflicts with the ATC Strip clearance. "Within 3 DME" is not on the ATC Strip. Where is the cover letter for the FOIA? I dont trust anything that comes from Farmer or an anonymous internet source. Especially with conflicts. From the departure instruction- CAMP SPRINGS ONE DEPARTURE ROUTE DESCRIPTION TAKE-OFF RWY 1L/1R: Turn left climb on track 270° within 3 DME of ADW VORTAC, cross ADW 8 DME at 3000. Expect radar vectors. Compare the published instructions to what was actually issued by Clearance Delivery: "turn left heading 270 within 3 DME of Andrews" and "cross 8 miles west of Andrews at maintain 3000" I see that the argument has changed directions. Now, if the words Camp Springs One are not heard in the recording or written on the flight strip, there was a different departure issued which coincidentally matches CS1 perfectly. What a sad, weak attempt to spin reality... pathetic. Edited by Boonedoggled, Jul 27 2009, 06:57 PM.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 28 2009, 11:33 AM Post #22
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Chopped up audio applied to a Youtube from data released after our findings doesn't change that O'Brien placed himself on the southside of the mall, NOT REAGAN NATIONAL, that there is overwhelming evidence that the attack jet flew over DC according to numerous sources (which corroborates the south side of the mall path), and the plane approached from the NW of Arlington National Cemetery as confirmed and corroborated by 4 different people at ANC. The north side flight path proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that we were deceieved and data has been manipulated. But everyone is supposed to believe the anonymous poster and the very erratic, bizarre behavior havin infiltrator John Farmer. O'Brien: We departed out of Andrews, climbed to 3000 ft which took us by the south side of the mall." Don't talk about spin to me MF. You and your piece of shit buddies try to spin that statement above to say that he was approaching the south side of National Airport (while crossing over approaching air traffic-a virtual no no) and said that it took him by the south side of the mall. LOLz. Are you serious? Just stop Boone. This is getting silly.
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Boonedoggled	Jul 28 2009, 02:15 PM Post #23
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Aldo, if an aircraft departed from Andrews using CS1, which side of the mall would it pass? Aldo (while crossing over approaching air traffic-a virtual no no) False. There are no conflicting-traffic restrictions for CS1. We know this because VENUS22 and WORD31 both over flew the arriving traffic earlier in the morning. They were using it on 9/11 and they are still using it today. Quote: 1) Coordinating Procedures (Departure Positions): a) ADW Departures. TYSON shall: i) Coordinate with DCAFR prior to releasing an ADW departure when DCA is in a north operation. i)) Shall maintain 3,000 until crossing the DCA180 radial, and then climb to 5,000. Source
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 28 2009, 08:23 PM Post #24
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Boonedoggled Jul 28 2009, 02:15 PM Aldo, if an aircraft departed from Andrews using CS1, which side of the mall would it pass? Boone, if a C-130 pilot said his flight path "took him by the south side of the mall", would he be north or south of Reagan National airport? Edited by Aldo Marquis CIT, Jul 28 2009, 08:41 PM.
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Aldo Marquis CIT	Jul 28 2009, 08:33 PM Post #25
Posts: 1,650 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: 01/14/08	Boonedoggled Jul 28 2009, 02:15 PM Aldo (while crossing over approaching air traffic-a virtual no no) We know this because VENUS22 and WORD31 both over flew the arriving traffic earlier in the morning. They were using it on 9/11 and they are still using it today. "We know"? How would YOU know that from data we already have proven to altered/fabricated? Please Boone, just stop this is silly. Can you show me the continuous footage you took that day of the C-130 on Camp Springs while showing the south to north arrivals, which would be validated by northern departures ascending next to the Pentagon. Unedited please. Because if I remember correctly and I do, I remember seeing northern departures from your shots but you claimed they were from a different day than your C-130 footage. I asked you for the footage showing the departing planes from the same day you filmed the C-130 but then you just slithered away.
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