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| Surge is working is a myth | |
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| Topic Started: Jan 25 2008, 06:58 PM (944 Views) | |
| Reggie_perrin | Jan 25 2008, 06:58 PM Post #1 |
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I keep hearing this bullshit about the surge working by the likes of McCainiac and other liars, does anyone else find it increasingly convenient that violence is down in Iraq nicely in time for the elections ? the war is only mentioned tacitly in debates and msm now, but violence isn't down because "the surge is working", it's because David Petraeus has bought off the sunni insurgency (saddams old henchmen) and armed them to the teeth to go after the al Qeada fighters (foreign fighters mostly from saudi arabia) which they are now doing, but this can only ever be a short term plan because long term this is going to back fire, once those sunni insurgents finish fighting the foreign fighters. You've also got Maqtada Al Sada and the Mahdi Army have effectively called a cease fire which is set to expire soon so violence could once again be on the increase soon. Edited by Reggie_perrin, Jan 25 2008, 06:59 PM.
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| Andoo Inc. | Jan 26 2008, 06:45 PM Post #2 |
Sir finds a lot
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What does the Iraqi uniform look like? ha ha that's right, the surge will be backed by a splurge later and maybe within the next year we can finally wind down. We should start guestimating what the total casualties will be when this is over. I'm gonna go ahead and say roughly 2 million slizzaughtered. |
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| mynameis | Jan 28 2008, 03:55 AM Post #3 |
Internet Jujitsu
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Violence will only increase if Gen. Patreus' polices with the Iraqi command structure and local arrangements fall through. The ceasefire was called in order to talk with the rival militants, and get friends from foes. |
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| Reggie_perrin | Jan 28 2008, 07:14 AM Post #4 |
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Hate to say i told you so, but looks like relations with those sunni insurgents are already beginning to fray- http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/if-there-is-no-change-in-three-months-there-will-be-war-again-774847.html 'If there is no change in three months, there will be war again' Change font size: A A A By Patrick Cockburn in Fallujah Monday, 28 January 2008 A crucial Iraqi ally of the United States in its recent successes in the country is threatening to withdraw his support and allow al-Qa'ida to return if his fighters are not incorporated into the Iraqi army and police. "If there is no change in three months there will be war again," said Abu Marouf, the commander of 13,000 fighters who formerly fought the Americans. He and his men switched sides last year to battle al-Qa'ida and defeated it in its main stronghold in and around Fallujah. "If the Americans think they can use us to crush al-Qa'ida and then push us to one side, they are mistaken," Abu Marouf told The Independent in an interview in a scantily furnished villa beside an abandoned cemetery near the village of Khandari outside Fallujah. He said that all he and his tribal following had to do was stand aside and al-Qa'ida's fighters would automatically come back. If they did so he might have to ally himself to a resurgent al-Qa'ida in order to "protect myself and my men". Abu Marouf said he was confident that his forces controlled a swath of territory stretching east from Fallujah into Baghdad and includes what Americans called "the triangle of death" south-west of the capital. Even so his bodyguards, armed with AK-47 assault rifles, nervously watched the abandoned canals and reed beds around his temporary headquarters. Others craned over light machine guns in newly built watch towers. Several anti-Qa'ida tribal leaders have been killed by suicide bombers in recent weeks. His threat is highly dangerous for the US and Iraqi government, neither of which made any headway in ending the Sunni insurgency against the US occupation for four years until the tribes of Anbar, the province in which Fallujah lies, turned against al-Qa'ida. They formed the Awakening movement, known in Arabic as al-Sahwah, of which Abu Marouf, whose full name is Karim Ismail Hassan al-Zubai, is a leading member. The Iraqi Foreign Minister, Hoshyar Zebari, warned last week it would be "very dangerous" if the Awakening movement's 80,000 fighters were not absorbed into the army and police. "They are not that well organised and could easily be manipulated by al-Qa'ida," he said. The Iraqi government fears ceding power to the Awakening movement which it sees as an American-funded Sunni militia, whose leaders are often former military or security officers from Saddam Hussein's regime and are unlikely to show long-term loyalty to the Shia and Kurdish-dominated administration. Abu Marouf – a thin man aged about 40, with a short beard and wearing a brown suit and lilac tie – says he was "security officer" before the US invasion of 2003. Afterwards he became a resistance fighter and, though he will not say which guerrilla group he belonged to, local sources say he was a commander of the 1920 Revolution Brigades. He is also a member of the powerful Zubai tribe that was at the heart of anti-American resistance in an area which saw the fiercest fighting during the Sunni rebellion against the occupation. He has a precise memory for dates and figures. He says that he started secretly working against al-Qa'ida at a meeting as long ago as 14 April 2005. He and his men gathered intelligence. Eight months later they started making attacks on al-Qa'ida, which was trying to monopolise power in Sunni areas. "They cut off people's heads and put them on sticks, as if they were sheep. They cut off my brother's head with a razor. Thirteen of my relatives and 450 members of my tribe were killed by them," he said. Part of Abu Marouf's force is paid for by the Americans. Ordinary fighters are believed to receive $350 (£175) a month and officers $1,200, but some receive no salary. He makes clear that he wants long-term jobs for himself and his followers and that "they must be long-term jobs". There is more than just money involved here. The Sunni tribal leaders want a share of power in Baghdad which they lost when Saddam Hussein was deposed. The US calls the Awakening movement groups "Concerned Citizens", as if they were pacific householders heroically restoring law and order. In fact, the US has handed over Sunni areas to the guerrilla groups such as the 1920 Brigades and the Islamic Army who have been blowing up American solders since 2003. This creates a serious problem for the Iraqi government and for the Americans themselves. Though Abu Marouf wants to join the government security forces, he volunteers that he considers the present Iraqi government of Nouri al-Maliki "the worst government in the world – his army has got 13 divisions, most of which are recruited from Shia militias controlled by Iran." It is clear that Abu Marouf sees the Shia religious party takeover of government as something to be resisted. The city of Fallujah – many of its buildings still in ruins since the US Marines stormed it in November 2004 – is peaceful compared with six months ago. Al-Qa'ida fighters, who once dominated it, have either gone or are keeping a low profile. The Americans have a large military camp on its outskirts. But the defeat of al-Qa'ida is not exactly a victory for the Iraqi government. In the centre of the city is a much-attacked police station run by Colonel Feisal Ismail Hassan al-Zubai, an authoritative looking man, who is the elder brother of Abu Marouf. A career officer in Saddam Hussein's Special Forces since 1983, who fought in 11 battles against Iran, he was appointed police chief in December 2006. When I asked what he did previously he said: "I was fighting against the Americans." Asked why had he changed sides he replied: "When I compared the Americans to al-Qa'ida and the [Shia] militia, I chose the Americans." Beside Colonel Feisal is a gold framed picture of himself as a young officer. "That was when I was a lieutenant in the real Iraqi army," he says. Behind him is the old Iraqi flag which the government is trying to replace. He says: "The worst day of my life was when Saddam Hussein fell in 2003." He chokes himself off from giving an account of the first battle of Fallujah against the Americans in April 2004 in which he appears to have played a role. "The Americans now give me everything I want," he says. There is no doubt that Abu Marouf and Colonel Feisal are far better people than the savage sectarian bigots of al-Qa'ida whom they have driven away. But, far from America having won a victory in Iraq, violence has fallen largely because the United States has handed power to the guerrillas who fought it for so long. If the Iraqi government pretends it has conquered its enemies and refuses to give men like Abu Marouf a share in power then Iraq will soon being facing another war. Edited by Reggie_perrin, Jan 28 2008, 07:16 AM.
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| Reggie_perrin | Jan 29 2008, 08:06 AM Post #5 |
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Wow hate to blow my own trumpet but it seems my predictions could be reality soon.... http://wiredispatch.com/news/?id=22327 Iraq's Sadrists seek to end cease-fire Influential Sadrists Urge Radical Shiite Cleric to End Cease-Fire Credited With Security Gains QASSIM ABDUL-ZAHRA AP News Jan 28, 2008 07:52 EST Influential members of Muqtada al-Sadr's movement have urged the anti-U.S. Shiite cleric not to extend a cease-fire when it expires next month, officials said Monday, a move that could jeopardize recent security gains. The Iraqi Red Crescent organization, meanwhile, gave a higher death toll than Iraqi officials from last week's devastating house explosion in the northern city of Mosul. The relief organization said more than 60 people were killed and 280 wounded based on estimates from relatives who buried victims without officially registering them. Iraqi officials in Mosul maintain that nearly 40 were killed and more than 200 wounded. Al-Sadr's August order for his feared Mahdi Army militia to freeze activities for six months was seen by U.S. commanders as a major factor in a nationwide reduction of violence. But U.S. and Iraqi forces insisted they would continue to hunt down so-called rogue fighters who ignored the order. Al-Sadr's followers claim this is a pretext to crack down on their movement. The maverick cleric has threatened not to renew the cease-fire unless the government of Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki purges "criminal gangs" operating within security forces he claims are targeting his followers. That was a reference to rival Shiite militiamen from the Badr Brigade who have infiltrated security forces participating in the ongoing crackdown against breakaway militia cells the U.S. has said were linked to Iran. The political commission of al-Sadr's movement and some lawmakers and senior officials said they were urging him to follow through with his threat, pointing to recent raids against the movement in the southern Shiite cities of Diwaniyah, Basra and Karbala. "We presented a historic opportunity when we froze the (Mahdi) army," Nasser al-Rubaie, leader of the Sadrists in parliament, told reporters Monday. "But the step was negatively capitalized on." The group planned to send the message to al-Sadr's main office in the holy city of Najaf, two Sadrist legislators and a member of the political commission told The Associated Press. They spoke on condition of anonymity because of fears of retribution. "We have demanded that the government purge these security organs and release our detainees," one official said. "We have not found any positive response so far from the government, so why then should we continue freezing the (Mahdi Army)?" Al-Sadr's political commission is made up of the movement's most powerful officials whose opinion often reflects that of the reclusive cleric, although the officials stressed that he retains sole decision-making authority over the militia. Underscoring the complaints, the military announced the arrest Monday of a man accused of gathering intelligence, using computers and forging documents as an associate of militia leaders involved in attacks on U.S.-led forces. U.S. troops also detained 18 al-Qaida-linked militants in two days of operations ending Monday north of Baghdad. Mahdi Army militiamen fought U.S. troops for much of 2004, and al-Sadr has tirelessly called for the withdrawal of U.S. forces from Iraq. His fighters were blamed for much of the retaliatory sectarian violence against Sunnis after the February 2006 bombing of a Shiite shrine in Samarra, and the cease-fire has been credited with a dramatic drop in the group's signature attacks — execution-style killings and kidnappings. The U.S. military has said an influx of some 30,000 additional American troops working more closely with Iraqi security forces and a Sunni revolt against al-Qaida in Iraq are other major factors in the lull in violence. But while major inroads have been made, Iraqis continue to face attacks, even in the capital, which is at the center of the security crackdown. A roadside bomb struck a minibus carrying a coffin and mourners to a funeral in the predominantly Shiite southeastern neighborhood of New Baghdad, killing three passengers, a police officer said. The bomb apparently was meant for a police patrol but missed its target and blew up near the bus instead, a police officer said. Edited by Reggie_perrin, Jan 29 2008, 08:07 AM.
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| Roxdog | Jan 29 2008, 11:29 AM Post #6 |
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The surge is working. Working to make people think the surge is working. |
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| Reggie_perrin | Jan 29 2008, 12:08 PM Post #7 |
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If they say "the surge is working" enough times people will believe it, John McCain says it in every interview he does to show how right he was, i bet he hopes and prays people don't go and do there own research and find out that it's not entirely true, luckily for him the large majority of people won't. |
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| Reggie_perrin | Feb 9 2008, 10:29 AM Post #8 |
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54 US soldiers killed so far this year already. http://icasualties.org/oif/US_chart.aspx |
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| SPreston | Feb 26 2008, 11:25 AM Post #9 |
Patriotic American
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Bush lie #12679 - The surge is working. $800,000 a day to Sunnis not to attack US forces, but somebody is killing Americans - 68 Americans dead in 2008 
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| Reggie_perrin | Mar 26 2008, 11:18 AM Post #10 |
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http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0326/p01s13-woiq.html |
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| illeagalhunter | Apr 5 2008, 01:41 AM Post #11 |
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Only thing that there has been a surge on is paying these bastards to stop shoting at the Marine Corp. Oh yes and in Halliburtons share price |
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| Seanny | Apr 6 2008, 10:23 PM Post #12 |
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I agree, I miss SaddamI agree, I miss Saddam. Al queada had no power when Saddam and his sons controlled the raping and torture
Edited by Seanny, Apr 6 2008, 10:27 PM.
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| hanuri | Aug 28 2008, 10:16 AM Post #13 |
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where actually is th eproof this alqueda actually excists? I think it´s just a name for a thread needed by neocons of Bush admins. |
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8:14 PM Dec 4
