Norad Tapes Vs. Ntsb

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Norad Tapes Vs. Ntsb; who do you trust?
Topic Started: Jan 17 2008, 03:51 PM (785 Views)
Woody Box	Jan 17 2008, 03:51 PM Post #1
Posts: 120 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Here's another proof that the NTSB data for Flight 77 are complete BS. The official story (9/11 CommReport) has it that Flight 77 vanished for some five minutes in a radar hole at 8:57, but was not detected by controllers when he was visible again because they were "not told to look for primary targets". Here's footnote 144, Chapter 1: 144. John Thomas interview (May 4, 2004); Charles Thomas interview (May 4, 2004). We have reviewed all FAA documents, transcripts, and tape recordings related to American 77 and have found no evidence that FAA headquarters issued a directive to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets. Review of the same materials also indicates that no one within FAA located American 77 until the aircraft was identified by Dulles controllers at 9:32. For much of that time, American 77 was traveling through Washington Center's airspace. The Washington Center's controllers were looking for the flight, but they were not told to look for primary radar returns. The NTSB flight path study has Flight 77 flying between 25000 ft and 35000 ft when it was in Washington Center airspace, i.e. if it was there then it was clearly visible on radar. So do we have a case of massive incompetence of the controllers of Washington Center here, not able to spot a primary target for 25 minutes? The answer is: No! No case of incompetent controllers, rather a case of a corrupt commission obstructing the evidence and faked data released by a corrupt government agency. Just listen to this gentleman here. He's the operations manager of Washington Center, and at 9:33:50, he provided NEADS with this clear information here: Let me tell you this story here: Indianapolis Center was working this guy - American 77 - at flight level 350, they lost radar with him, they lost contact with him, they lost everything, they don't have any idea where he is or what happened. So what we've done at the surrounding centers here is tell them all to look out for limited codes or primary targets or whatever the case may be and that was the last time - that was about 15 minutes ago since I talked to the Indianapolis Center operations manager. Source: NORAD tapes, channel 4; scroll forward to 1:08:20 (about 9:33:50) ) http://www.aal77.com/norad/norad.php So Washington Center and Indianapolis Center did everything they could to spot primary targets and unknown objects on their screens - as we can expect from professional controllers -, but they couldn't find one. And the 9/11 Commission is convicted of another big lie. And the so-called evidence that Flight 77 was flying back to Washington is nihilated. Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, Objections, anyone?
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Domenick DiMaggio	Jan 17 2008, 04:15 PM Post #2
Posts: 2,006 Group: Members Member #22 Joined: 01/14/08	Woody Box Jan 17 2008, 03:51 PM Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, Objections, anyone? None here!!!! Kudos on great research Woody!!!!
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Craig Ranke CIT	Jan 17 2008, 06:09 PM Post #3
Posts: 1,459 Group: Members Member #14 Joined: 01/14/08	Excellent catch. This type of information proving a deliberate cover-up and blatant lies on the part of the 9/11 Omission is extremely important. Thanks a ton.
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Woody Box	Jan 18 2008, 04:54 PM Post #4
Posts: 120 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Domenick DiMaggio CIT Jan 17 2008, 04:15 PM Woody Box Jan 17 2008, 03:51 PM Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, Objections, anyone? None here!!!! Kudos on great research Woody!!!! Thanks, Craig and Dom. These NORAD tapes are a huge treasure. Whoever was responsible for releasing them did the movement an incredible favor.
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Boonedoggled	Jan 18 2008, 07:10 PM Post #5
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box Here's another proof that the NTSB data for Flight 77 are complete BS. How does anything you posted prove that the NTSB data for flight 77 is complete BS? "not told to look for primary targets", is referring to Washington Center's controllers. Neither the FAA Headquarters or FAA Command Center told Washington Center's controllers to look for aircraft with their primary radars, but someone did or they made the decision to use primary radar on their own. Maybe we can find the answer in this quote by the Washington Center controller from the NORAD tapes. ''So what we've done at the surrounding centers here is tell them all to look out for limited codes or primary targets or whatever the case may be and that was the last time - that was about 15 minutes ago since I talked to the Indianapolis Center operations manager.'' At approximately 9:34 the Washington controller told NEADS that he had talked to the operations manager at Indianapolis Center ''about 15 minutes ago'' which is just about the time Indianapolis Center realized that Flight 77 may not have crashed and could possibly be a hijack. From the 9/11 Commission. ''By 9:20, Indianapolis Center learned that there were other hijacked aircraft, and began to doubt its initial assumption that American 77 had crashed.'' It looks like the 9/11 commission didn't lie after all.
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Deleted User	Jan 19 2008, 04:35 AM Post #6
Deleted User	Good enough topic starter mr. Box. Okay so lemme see if I get the gist of this: Controllers NOT TOLD to look for primary targets so they don't do what they have to do to look, which I think means switching radar modes. Dulles sees it anyway at 9:32. Altitude shows it should appear on radar at 9:32 if they were looking So why didn't they see it before? They were looking - at 9:34 we hear they've been looking for primary returns sometime before that. So the lie is the 9/11 Comm's "no evidence that FAA headquarters issued a directive to surrounding centers to search for primary radar targets" and "The Washington Center's controllers [...] were not told to look for primary radar returns." vs. NORAD's tape of "what we've done at the surrounding centers here is tell them all to look out for limited codes or primary targets or whatever the case may be." So it's 9/11 Comm vs. NORAD tape. But the thread is titled NTSB vs. NORAD. But So far so good. I'll read Boone's post next - I think he's already done more research than I was gonna so tonight. Quote: And the so-called evidence that Flight 77 was flying back to Washington is nihilated. Flight 77 didn't hit the Pentagon, Objections, anyone? No, that's your opinion. How could I object to that? You'll need to explain better how this contradiction proves that or strengthens it in any way. Is it that they had been looking and didn't see it? How long were they looking? Etc? I'll have to look closer at this later. Thanks for helping me catch an earlier error - I had radar pick-up at 9:25, but I double-checked and 9:32 is what the sources say. And by my data, the Flight Path Study shows it about 7-8,000 feet above sea level at 9:32, which lines up with it being at 7,000 before the loop it started at 9:34. BTW Terror Timeline, page 405 cites at 9:21 "FAA Command Center Advises Dulles Airport Control to be on Lookout" - according to the 9/11 Commission Dulles is told to "look for primary targets." At least one source has 77 sighted a few minutes later... maybe that 9:25 was based on something. I'll have to dig that up.
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Deleted User	Jan 19 2008, 04:42 AM Post #7
Deleted User	Boonedoggled Jan 18 2008, 07:10 PM "not told to look for primary targets", is referring to Washington Center's controllers. Neither the FAA Headquarters or FAA Command Center told Washington Center's controllers to look for aircraft with their primary radars, but someone did or they made the decision to use primary radar on their own. Apparently - Dulles was told tho apparently at 9:21, and they're the ones who saw it at 9:32. What does Washington Center mean anyway relative to Dulles? Who does what and was told what is something I'm confused on here... ''and that was the last time - that was about 15 minutes ago since I talked to the Indianapolis Center operations manager.'' This implies to me it has not been seen since the call, at least as far as this guy knows when he's talking. Quote: At approximately 9:34 the Washington controller told NEADS that he had talked to the operations manager at Indianapolis Center ''about 15 minutes ago'' which is just about the time Indianapolis Center realized that Flight 77 may not have crashed and could possibly be a hijack. From the 9/11 Commission. ''By 9:20, Indianapolis Center learned that there were other hijacked aircraft, and began to doubt its initial assumption that American 77 had crashed.'' It looks like the 9/11 commission didn't lie after all. Good catch. Also ties in w/FAA telling Dulles to look for primaries a minute later. I'd still wonder why it took ten-minutes plus to see... So where do we stand here?
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Boonedoggled	Jan 19 2008, 08:33 PM Post #8
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Caustic Logic I'd still wonder why it took ten-minutes plus to see... So where do we stand here? I don't know where we stand exactly. Woody Box mis-read what the 9/11 Commission said and tried to use that as proof that they lied. I'm a little lost myself on the ''NTSB vs. NORAD'' statement. Washington Center is an ARTCC, Dulles is an airport inside the airspace that they control. Washington Center controls all of the departures and arrivals from these airports: KBWI - Baltimore/Washington International Thurgood Marshall KDCA - Ronald Reagan Washington National KIAD - Washington Dulles International KACY - Atlantic City International KFAY - Fayetteville Regional KORF - Norfolk International KROA - Roanoke Regional KRDU - Raleigh-Durham International KRIC - Richmond International KCHO - Charlottesville Albemarle KHEF - Manassas Regional KMRB - Eastern West Virginia Regional KMTN - Martin State KILM - Wilmington International KDOV - Dover Airforce Base KADW - Andrews Airforce Base KLFI - Langley Airforce Base KNTU - Naval Air Station Oceana KNKT - Marine Corps Air Station Cherry Point Dulles is as an airport and their radar is probably not as strong as Washington Center's because they are only concerned with the traffic in the area of the airport and not across several states. That might explain why Flight 77 got so close before it was detected.
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Woody Box	Jan 20 2008, 10:39 AM Post #9
Posts: 120 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled Jan 18 2008, 07:10 PM How does anything you posted prove that the NTSB data for flight 77 is complete BS? Because the NTSB data claim Flight 77 was flying at 20000 ft or 30000 ft on his way back to Washington for 25 minutes. If this was the case, it must have been detected by Indianapolis and/or Washington Center controllers who were looking for every radar return that could possibly Flight 77. (Don't tell me there is a 150 miles wide radar hole over Virginia). So it's NTSB vs. the statement of the Washington Center manager. One of them is wrong. Having listened to the Washington Center manager, I'm sure the controllers did what he said. This means the NTSB flight data - at least for this part of the path - is BS. Quote: "not told to look for primary targets", is referring to Washington Center's controllers. Neither the FAA Headquarters or FAA Command Center told Washington Center's controllers to look for aircraft with their primary radars, but someone did or they made the decision to use primary radar on their own. Maybe we can find the answer in this quote by the Washington Center controller from the NORAD tapes. ''So what we've done at the surrounding centers here is tell them all to look out for limited codes or primary targets or whatever the case may be and that was the last time - that was about 15 minutes ago since I talked to the Indianapolis Center operations manager.'' At approximately 9:34 the Washington controller told NEADS that he had talked to the operations manager at Indianapolis Center ''about 15 minutes ago'' which is just about the time Indianapolis Center realized that Flight 77 may not have crashed and could possibly be a hijack. From the 9/11 Commission. ''By 9:20, Indianapolis Center learned that there were other hijacked aircraft, and began to doubt its initial assumption that American 77 had crashed.'' It looks like the 9/11 commission didn't lie after all. Here's the incriminated sentence: "The Washington Center's controllers were looking for the flight, but they were not told to look for primary targets". This sentence clearly implies that the controllers were not looking for primary targets. But they did. If they were told to or not doesn't matter. That's an easy one.
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Boonedoggled	Jan 20 2008, 06:08 PM Post #10
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box Here's the incriminated sentence: "The Washington Center's controllers were looking for the flight, but they were not told to look for primary targets". This sentence clearly implies that the controllers were not looking for primary targets. But they did. If they were told to or not doesn't matter. That's an easy one. The controller in the NORAD tapes is from Dulles Airport. You cannot use what a controller from Dulles says to prove that the commission was lying about Washington Center not using primary radar to find Flight 77. That's an easy one.
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Woody Box	Jan 21 2008, 01:03 PM Post #11
Posts: 120 Group: Members Member #109 Joined: 01/17/08	Boonedoggled Jan 20 2008, 06:08 PM The controller in the NORAD tapes is from Dulles Airport. You cannot use what a controller from Dulles says to prove that the commission was lying about Washington Center not using primary radar to find Flight 77. That's an easy one. Sorry man, that's not that easy. You really should do your homework before engaging in discussions with Woody Box. Do you really think I didn't check who was talking to NEADS? It was the operations manager of Washington Center, and he introduces himself about two minutes before the quoted passage. Just being curious...Where did you get the idea that the man was from Dulles Airport? Edited by Woody Box, Jan 21 2008, 01:04 PM.
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Boonedoggled	Jan 21 2008, 08:10 PM Post #12
Posts: 228 Group: Members Member #51 Joined: 01/15/08	Woody Box Just being curious...Where did you get the idea that the man was from Dulles Airport? I....umm....errrrr....ahhhh.... don't know. Out of my rear end, maybe? You're right, it wasn't the Dulles controller. My mistake. I think maybe that I crossed the two up because Dulles was the first to spot Flight 77. Regardless of that, the FAA headquarters or Command Center didn't tell Washington Center to look for Flight 77 on primary radar. They made the decision to look for it on their own or through some other channel. Quote: Sorry man, that's not that easy. You really should do your homework before engaging in discussions with Woody Box. I'll keep that in mind. Are you the famous ''Flight X'' Woody Box?
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