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Barry Jennings 2007 LCFC UnCut Interview; The Timeline Examined
Topic Started: Jul 18 2008, 06:11 PM (3,342 Views)
Miragememories
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[This transcript attempts to accurately convey the Barry Jenning's 2007 LCFC interview while examining how his story compares with those who support the Official Story.

Any translation inaccuracies, are my responsibility.

Pictures have been added to provide some perspective on the content of Barry's statement.

If you wish to view the interview with all Barry's um's, ah's and long pauses included, I suggest you watch the video using the link below.]

http://www.911blogger.com/node/16573

Dylan Avery's preface (see the above link):

"I've been sitting on this interview for a while, but after viewing the latest BBC piece on WTC7, I feel the time has come to release it in its entirety.

After locating Barry in mid 2007, Jason and I visited him and he graciously granted us an interview during a lunch break. He had agreed to grant us an interview under the conditions that we, at no time, associate his interview with his place of employment.

Jason and I were so thrilled with the content of the interview that we decided to release a few bits and pieces of it on both our show and Alex's.

A few months later, as the film was nearing completion, I called Barry again to touch base and see how things were going. It took him a bit to remember who I was, but as soon as he did, he began complaining about phone calls to his place of employment and that he was in danger of losing his job.

He requested to have his interview pulled from Loose Change, and I honored his request.

Fast forward to February, 2008, where I'm doing an interview with the BBC, and I'm informed by their crew that Barry told them the reason he asked for it to be pulled was because of the article on Prisonplanet claiming he was stepping over dead bodies, which he denies saying. I call Barry to attempt to rectify the situation, and he is adamant that he did not use the phrase "we were stepping over people"

Fast forward one more time to two days ago, when the BBC piece finally aired. I now feel an obligation to release his interview, in its entirety, into the public where it belongs for three reasons:

1) To see the difference between the interview he gave us, and the interview he gave the BBC.

2) To establish Barry's timeline in his own words.

3) To preserve his testimony, in his own words, for the historical record.

I have remained true to my word and kept his interview out of the film, however, I can no longer keep it from the public. They deserve to hear Barry's story, out of his own mouth.

As I say in the end of the video, I would appreciate it if Barry could enjoy his privacy and live his life in peace. My intention with releasing this is so his story can be told, not to cause him any further grief or suffering."


00:00:00 [Start of original 9/11 on-the-street 'live' news interview with Barry Jennings and one of his rescuers.]

Posted Image

Barry Jennings 9_11_01:
"Well me and Mr. Hess the Corporation Counsel were on the 23rd floor.
I told him we gotta get out of here.
We started walking down the stairs.
We made it to the 8th floor.
Big explosion!
Blew us back into the 8th floor.
And I turned to Hess and I said, "this is it!
We're dead!
We're not gonna make it outta here!"
I took a fire extinguisher and I bust a window out.
That's when this gentleman here heard my cries for help.
This gentleman right here and he kept saying "stand by, somebody's
coming to get you.."

They couldn't get to us for an hour because they couldn't find us."


EyeWitness News 7:
"You thought that was it?"

Barry Jennings 9_11_01:
"I thought-I thought we were dead.
I thought that was it.
I started praying to Allah.
I said "that's it we're goners, it's over."


EyeWitness News 7: [to Barry's rescuer]
"What was it like for you.
You were inside there as well?"


Posted Image

Rescuer:
"It was pandemonium.
It ..something out of a Bruce Willis DIE HARD movie.
um..he was there and he was crying and there was another gentleman crying for help!
We couldn't get to them.
We tried to get through the ..uh.?
We went through the building. We were lost.
Both staircases.
The backside was completely blown away.

There was no way to access.
We couldn't get to 'em.
And finally uh.
One of the fire department teams found 'em.
But we didn't think they were going to make it."


EyeWitness News 7:
"But certainly you got out.
Many others didn't of course we don't have a number right now of fatalities or injuries but I want to translate a story to you that another man told me.
He was near the building.
He was on the lobby level near the shopping area, near the Promenade.
The "elevator doors" he said to me, "blew open" and when the doors opened, there was a man on fire inside that elevator.
That is the kind of tragedy we are talking about here and where the WTC [audio fades out]"


00:01:52
[start of the 2007 LCFC interview conducted by Jason Bermas and Dylan Avery.]

Posted Image

Barry Jennings mid2007:
"Hi. My name is Barry Jennings.
I'm 52 years old.
I've worked for 33 years at one location.
Basically that's it.
I'm married.
Father of four."


Jason Bermas:
"and that's it.
Why don't you tell people your experiences from the very beginning of the day on September 11, 2001?"

Barry Jennings mid2007:
"Alright.
It was. as I told you guys before, it was very uh-funny.
I was on my way to work.
And..traffic was excellent.
And I received a call that a small cessna had hit the WTC.
And I was asked to go and man the Office of Emergency Management (OEM) at WTC 7 on the 23rd floor.
As I arrived there, there were police..all in the lobby.
They..showed me the way to the elevator.
We got up to the 23rd floor."


Posted Image
OEM EOC

Posted Image
OEM EOC library photo

"Me and Mr. Hess, who I didn't know was Mr. Hess at the time."

(Hess is a Yale and Harvard graduate, a lawyer who has represented the United States in numerous major cases).
Posted Image

"We got to the 23rd floor.
We couldn't get in.
We had to go back down."


[from the 9/11 Commission report
After the South Tower was hit, OEM senior leadership decided to remain in its bunker and continue conducting operations, even though all civilians had been evacuated from 7 WTC. At approximately 0930, a senior OEM official ordered the evacuation of the facility, after a Secret Service agent in 7 WTC advised him that additional commercial planes were not accounted for.]

[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
By the time WTC 2 was struck by the second aircraft at 0903,
many WTC 7 occupants had already left the building and others had begun a self-evacuation of the building. . .At approximately 0944, after the report of a third aircraft heading into the city and news that the Pentagon had been attacked, a Deputy OEM Commissioner ordered the complete evacuation of WTC 7.
]

[Assuming Barry is being honest, he was in WTC7 after the 2nd crash but mistaken if he specifically thought he was on the 23rd floor. Barry repeatedly draws attention to the fact that he was out of touch with the outside world and had no idea in advance the surprises that faced him.
Since Barry had no recollection of the WTC2 aircraft crash @0903, he must have been off the lobby floor of WTC7. It would seem unlikely that it was his first trip up to the 23rd floor because he stated quite clearly that he and Mr. Hess had to return to the ground floor because the OEM EOC was locked.

Apparently when they returned to the ground floor to get building security to open up the EOC, nothing noteworthy had occurred since their first arrival minutes before. This lack of drama amongst all the police in the ground floor lobby suggests that it was before 0903, yet the fact that the EOC was deserted when Mr. Jennings and Mr. Hess arrived, suggests that the evacuation occurred earlier than the 911 Commission or NIST believe.

The only other conclusion is that the time when they arrived was later than 0930 which nicely cooperates with the 911 Commission and NIST timelines.

NIST did say that before 0903 "many WTC 7 occupants had already left the building". How likely is it that his police and building security escort for his 2nd trip would not mention the 2nd plane or a previous evacuation of the their OEC destination?]

"Then Security and the Police took us to the freight elevators where they took us back up and we did get in.
Upon arriving into the OEM EOC,..we notice that..everybody was gone.
I saw coffee that was on the desk. Still. The smoke was still coming off the coffee.
I saw..I saw er half eaten sandwiches.
And..only me and Mr. Hess was up there.
After I called several individuals, one individual told me that, um
"to leave, and leave right away."
Mr. Hess came running back in.
He said "we're the only ones up here, we gotta get out of here."
He found the stairwell.
So we went to the stairwell and we're going down the stairs.
When we reached the 8th..uh, the 6th floor, the landing that we were standing on gave way.
There was an explosion.
And the landing 'gave way'."


[Extract from NIST WTC7 leaked documents.WTC 7 chapter Pitts.doc
"Additional supporting evidence that large and heavy debris did not reach WTC 7 from the collapse of WTC 2 is that the roofs of WTC 5 and WTC 6, which were in between WTC 2 and WTC 7 did not sustain substantial damage based on review of photographs and videos taken from above these buildings after the collapse of WTC 2, but prior to the collapse of WTC 1. Note that a large section of WTC 4, which was located to the south of WTC 5 and was immediately to the east of WTC 2, was collapsed by debris falling from WTC 2."]

"And we were, I, was left there hanging.
I had to climb back up.
And now I had to walk back up to the 8th floor."


Posted Image
WTC7 NorthEast Face


[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there. As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase. When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor broke out a window and called for help. Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building.

. . . .Con Edison personnel arrived at the scene and consulted with FDNY. They wanted to know if they should cut the power off at the WTC 7 power station. It was decided to leave the power on and not allow Con Edison personnel to enter WTC 7 because it was not safe. The Con Edison personnel also indicated that fuel tanks were located in the lower level of WTC 7. However, they could not determine if the fuel tanks were involved with the fires burning in the building. FDNY personnel reported that they did not see any indication of burning liquid fuels before the building collapsed.
]


"After getting to the 8th floor, everything was dark.
It was dark.
And it was very very hot.
VERY hot.
I asked Mr. Hess to test the phones as I took a fire extinguisher and broke out the windows."


Posted Image
WTC7 NorthEast Corner

"Once I broke out the windows, I could see..outside below me.
I saw er..police cars..on fire..buses on fire.
Uh.
I looked one way.
The building was there. [WTC7]
I looked the other way.
It was gone.
um.
I was trapped in there for several hours.
I was trapped in there when both buildings came down.
um.
The firefighters came.
They came to the window.
And they..
Because I was going to come out on the firehose.
I didn't want to stay any longer
It was too hot.
I was gonna come out on the firehose.
They came--to the window and they said
They started yelling "do not do that..it won't hold you."
And then they ran away.
See, I didn't know what was going on.
That's when one..the first tower fell."


Posted Image
WTC7 NorthEast Corner during collapse of WTC2

Posted Image
WTC7 North Side during collapse of WTC2

Posted Image

"When they started running..the first tower was coming down.
I had no..I had no way of knowing that.
Then I saw them come back.
Now I saw them come back with more concern on their faces."


Posted Image
WTC7 (on the left) prior to collapse of WTC1

"And then they ran away again.
The second tower fell.
So as they turned and ran the second time,
the guy said "don't worry we'll be back for you."
And they did come back.
This time they came back with 10 firefighters.
um.
And they kept asking "where are you? We don't know where you are?"
I said "I'm on the north side of the building."
Because when I was on the stairs I saw "NORTH SIDE".
Ah.
All this time, I'm hearing all types kinds of explosions.
All this time I'm hearing explosions.
And I'm thinking that maybe it's the ah..
Buses around me that were on fire, the cars that were on fire.
I don't see no..you know?..but I'm still hearing these explosions.
When they finally got to us, and they took us down, to what, to what they, they ah..called the lobby.
Because I asked them when we got down there I said "where are we?"
He said "this was the lobby."
And I said "you gotta be kidding me."
Total ruins.
Total ruins-now keep in mind when I came in there, the lobby had nice escalators...
It was a huge lobby and for me to see what I saw was unbelievable.
And the firefighter that took us down kept saying "do not look down!"
And I kept saying "why is why?"
"Do not look down"
And---we were stepping over people..and you know you can feel when your stepping over people.
They took us out..through a hole, that the..I don't know who made this hole in this wall.
That's how they got us out.
They took us out through a hole through the wall to safety.
As they were taking me out, one firefighter had fallen.
I believe he was having a heart attack.
But before that, this big giant police officer came to me.
And he says "you have to run!"
I said "I can't run my knees are swollen."
He said "you'll have to get on your knees and crawl than!"
He said "because we have reports of more explosions."
And that's when I started crawling and I saw this guy fall behind me.
His comrades came to his aid and they dragged him to safety.
um
I was looking for ..for an ambulance for my knees and at that time they told me
we gotta walk 20 blocks..to a um..to refuge.
Ahh..before I got there, EyeWitness News grabbed me and they started interviewing me.
um.
That's basically it."


00:07:47

Dylan Avery: "Now, real quick I would like...if it's possible for you to elaborate on..
Now, you originally said on ABC 7 that you got to the 8th floor and that's when the explosion was and that's what blew you off, and here you said you got down to the 6th floor..."

Barry Jennings: "Well it was..no, the 8th floor we got back into."

Dylan Avery: "Okay."

Barry Jennings: "The 6th floor is what we got down to."

Dylan Avery: "Okay, so you made it all the way down from the 23rd floor all the way to the 6th floor.

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "The 6th floor..right..that's when the explosion happened"

Dylan Avery: "Now, where did that originate from, where did the explosion come from..under you?"

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "Under uh, it was definitely under us..it was definitely under us."

Dylan Avery: "Now did it like lift you up?, is that.."

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "It blew..it blew us back and then I found myself..I thought I was on a stair landing. I wasn't..I found myself hanging on.
So you want me to go into that?"


Dylan Avery: "If you could..garbled..elaborate on that.."

Barry Jennings: "Sure. When I made it to the 6th floor and there was an explosion.
The explosion was beneath me.
Keep in mind now, it's pitch black in there.
All the lights went out.
So when the explosion happened, it blew us back.
I'm thinking I'm standing on a landing..I'm actually holding on to a pole above us.
And I had to climb back up..cuz Hess is yelling "What do we do now?"
I said "there's only one thing we can do and that's go back up."
So that's when we went back up to the 8th floor and I busted out that window."


Jason Bermas: "My other question was going to be. You worked in the Office of Emergency Management since it's inception in '99, could you just tell people what the OEM was and your experiences with it? Like how often you would be there, what the job of the OEM was?"

Barry Jennings: "Okay."

Jason Bermas: "Excellent."

Barry Jennings: "When the Office of Emergency Management did an 'activation', they always, they always included our locale and what we did was..what they did was monitor the emergency.
They actually coordinated the emergency through several agencies.
And that's what we did.
I was there as part of one of my agencies, which I can't name, and um, we would sit there and we would do situation reports.
We would get updates as far as the emergency that was on hand.
And that was simply what we would do.
Every agency that was involved in that emergency was there."


Jason Bermas: "And that was manned 24 hours I've heard?"

Barry Jennings: "Only when there was an emergency activation was that manned 24 hours.
OEM was manned 24 hours without deactivation.
When they opened up the OEC, that was activated for as long as the emergency was going on.
Once the emergency subsided, they would stand down."


Jason Bermas: "My other question was, they had a drill in preparation called TRIPOD.
Do you know anything about TRIPOD that was down at the pier?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes I was part of that."

Dylan Avery: "Oh you were part of TRIPOD. Could you discuss any aspects of TRIPOD?

Barry Jennings: "Well, the only thing I remember with TRIPOD is that we did a drill that
was supposed to be a manmade disaster, a terrorist attack..and it was supposed to be some kind of chemical.
And all they did was drill.
They went through the whole..steps..what you would do here..you'd come here..how you would..you know, they went through the whole thing.
Actually we were just viewing it..we were just part of the viewers."


Jason Bermas: "Media reports..we've heard that it was supposed to take place on the 12th but preparations were before that, in other words throughout the week they had been manning the separate stations. Do you know when it was actually in progress because you said you'd been part of it and seen it, so obviously there was something going on before the 12th?
Like did you observe this on the 10th, the 11th right prior to 9/11?"

Barry Jennings: "No."

Jason Bermas: "This was after?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes. Our participation was after."

Jason Bermas: "Was after 9/11?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Jason Bermas: "um..can you then just ah..give us permission to use it? Say Louder Than Words can use this footage?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes you can use this footage!"

Dylan Avery: "Okay, I would like you to elaborate on a few things?"

Barry Jennings: "Sure."

Dylan Avery: "What time approximately, did you arrive at WTC7?

Barry Jennings: "um."

Dylan Avery: "I'm just trying to establish a timeline..."

[Barry talks over top of Dylan last few words]

Barry Jennings: "I received a call shortly after the first plane hit, which everyone
thought was a cessna.
That's what I was told.
A small cessna lost it's way and hit the ..
I got there..uh..I had to be inside on the 23rd floor when the 2nd plane hit.
I was inside when the 2nd plane hit. I was already in the WTC7."


Dylan Avery: "Did you hear that when it happened..the 2nd plane when it hit?"

Barry Jennings: "I couldn't tell you because I was inside and I was like closed off from everything.
Keep in mind, now, OEM, that big center, they had big gigantic TV screens and at that point, none of them were working.
So I didn't know what was going on on the outside."


Dylan Avery: "So the Command Center was deserted when you and Mr. Hess got up there?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "Was that normal?"

Barry Jennings: "No."

Dylan Avery: "No?"

Barry Jennings: "No, not at all.
The word we got was they had to take the mayor and evacuate"


Jason Bermas: "Did they say the Mayor was in WTC7 that day?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "He was there and then evacuated?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes.
I didn't actually see him.
That's what I was told.
That's why Hess was there.
He was there to meet with Guiliani"


Dylan Avery: "What's your impression of Building 7. In your experience of working there, what kind of vibe did you get from that building. You know that the CIA was there obviously, there
was the Dept. of Defence, the Secret Service..the IRS was there..?"

Barry Jennings: "Well, I'm just confused about one thing and one thing only.
Why WTC7 went down in the first place?
I'm very confused about that.
I know what I heard.
I heard explosions.
The explanation that I got was that it was the fuel oil tank.
I'm an old boiler guy.
If it was a fuel oil tank, it would have been one side of the building.
When I got to that lobby, the lobby was totally destroyed.
It looked like King Kong had came through it and stepped on it.
It was so destroyed, I didn't know where I was.
And it was so destroyed, they had to take me out through a hole in the wall.
A makeshift hole that I believe the fire department made to get me out.
Me and Mr. Hess out."


Jason Bermas: "I do have one more question. Did you ever talk with the 911 Commission, Congressional Report, the FBI, NIST..anybody..?

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Jason Bermas: "Who did you speak with?

Barry Jennings: "um.
They called me down.
I think it was part of the 911 Commission."


Dylan Avery: "Was it the hearings at the [unintelligible] School?

Barry Jennings: "No, no. I can't you where it was because..[confidentiality] but they called
me down there and they asked me the same questions that you guys are asking me and at that point they said "okay, thank you" and they sent me on my way."


Dylan Avery: "And yet you told them pretty much everything you just told us?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes."

Dylan Avery: "You were in the building, you got rocked by an explosion all that and you know they didn't mention Building 7 once in the 911 Commission Report?"

Barry Jennings: "I told them that's where I was."

Dylan Avery: "But you know they didn't mention the building at all?"

Barry Jennings: "I didn't give it too much thought. I thought they were just doing an interim report or an investigation as to what happened.
They got my point of view and I haven't heard anymore from them."


Dylan Avery: "So you don't feel you've gotten a satisfactory explanation for what happened inside that building?"

Barry Jennings: "No. The explanation that I got..a fuel oil tank...no. I heard the explosions and the key thing was, when the police officer came to me, he said "we've got reports of more explosions so you've got to run."

Jason Bermas: "But that's after both towers had fell."

Barry Jennings: "Yes, yes."

Dylan Avery: "Now to your recollection, did the explosion on the 6th floor happen before the first tower collapsed, or the second one, or before both of them?
Because I remember, I remember you said earlier that you were actually trapped when both of them came down."

Barry Jennings: "I'm still in the building when both of them came down."

Dylan Avery: "Your still in the building. Are you trapped on the 6th floor when the buildings came down?"

Barry Jennings: "Yes, yes."

Dylan Avery: "So it's safe to say that that explosion on the 6th floor definitely happened before either tower fell?"

Barry Jennings: "It definitely happened before either tower fell and I'll tell you why.."

[interrupted by Dylan to allow for [helicopter?] noise to pass]

Dylan Avery: "Barry I'm sorry could you just wait for that chopper because this is vital!
Because the whole Official Story, the whole reason that Building 7 collapsed allegedly, was because the North Tower fell onto it and caused damage.
And what people are going to say, is they're going to say "Barry was hit by debris from the North Tower."

Barry Jennings: "No. What happened was - when we made it back to the 8th floor, --- as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked -- [he points] Two [pauses] I look one way, look the other way -- now there's nothing there.
When I got to the 6th floor there was an explosion that forced us back to the 8th floor.
Both buildings were still standing.
Keep in mind, I told you the fire department came..and ran.
They came twice.
Why?
Because building tower 1 fell and then tower 2 fell.
And then when they came back, they came back, they came back all concerned like to get me the hell out of there.
And, and they did.
And we got out of there..
I got into the building a little before nine, a little after nine..
I didn't get out of there until like 1 PM."


Dylan Avery: "Is there anything else you'd like to say? Anything else you'd like to clear up?"

Barry Jennings: "I'd like to say that..um..my mind is still there, you know..that day I'll never forget..and the explanations that were given to me were totally unacceptable.
Totally unacceptable.
Because as I said, I was there. I lived it.
I lived through it.
Actually, I thought I was going to die that day.
Because me and Michael Hess did get on our knees and start praying when we saw that there was nobody coming.
There was no hope.
We got on our knees and started praying.
And then there was the firemen that shined the lights and saying "is there anybody in here?"
Those were the sweetest words I ever heard.
"Is there anybody in here?"
And at that time, I told Mike "Mike, you better get under the desk and pray to who you gonna pray to, because I'm gonna pray to who I'm gonna pray to, because it doesn't look like we're
gonna make it.
And that's when the firemen came and saved our lives."


Dylan Avery: "And you got of the building around 1 PM and that's when you pretty much crawled out on your knees and that's when you see [unintelligible]

Barry Jennings: "Yes yes yes."

Dylan Avery: "There's really been no official followup right? Obviously the 911 Commission invited you to come and testify and that was it. I mean you never heard anything back from that?"

Barry Jennings: "No. No. I guess I recall some news reporters and News 12 did come out to my home and interview me as far as what took place but that was it.
That was it.
And it wasn't until some years later that I testified in front of them.
To tell ya, it was very scary.
They looked like very important people that were questioning me about certain things.
Um.
I don't know if they liked most of the answers I gave.
I could care less.
I gave my account of it, the truth and that was it."


Dylan Avery: "When did you first start doubting. Well, did you have your doubts that day as to why? Did you even see Building 7 come down..at all..but you were probably gone by that time?

Barry Jennings: "No. No I was long gone by then."

Dylan Avery: "When did you first hear that it had collapsed?"

Barry Jennings: "To my surprise, I was back in the office um..
Secretaries were cleaning me up.
I was dishevelled.
I even started crying..um..because of the lives that were lost and I was lucky enough to get out of there.
When I got home, I sat down in front of the TV and my wife kept saying "why do you keep watching this?"
I couldn't stop watching it and that's when I found out Building 7 came down, I was so surprised.
And I'm saying to myself..why did that building come down?
And I knew why it came down.
Because of the explosions.
And it was not no fuel oil tanks."


[End of interview]

MM
Edited by Miragememories, Sep 1 2009, 06:00 PM.
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The Barry Jenning's timeline as described in his own testimony is in serious conflict with the timeline that NIST has assigned to him.

This is how NIST tells it.

[from NIST at: http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf
With the collapse of the two towers, a New York City employee and a WTC 7 building staff person became trapped inside of WTC 7. The two had gone to the OEM center on the 23rd floor and found no one there. As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed. At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase. When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly, and the staircase filled with smoke and debris. The two men went back to the 8th floor broke out a window and called for help. Firefighters on the ground saw them and went up the stairs. In addition, a security officer for one of the businesses in the building was also was trapped on the 7th floor by the smoke in the stairway. As the firefighters went up, they vented the stairway and cleared some of the smoke. They first met the security officer on the 7th floor and firefighters escorted him down the stairs. Other firefighters from the group continued up the stairs, shined their flashlight through the staircase smoke and called out. The two trapped men on the 8th floor saw the flashlight beam and heard the firefighters calling and went down the stairway. The firefighters took the men outside and directed them away from the building.

NIST claims that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess upon leaving the OEM center on the 23rd floor, went to the elevators in an attempt to make their exit.

Barry Jennings makes no reference to the elevator, stating that Michael Hess came to him in a rush, saying they were alone, had to go, and that Hess found a stairwell which they used to make their exit attempt. Note that previously, they were escorted to the 23rd floor by NYPD and WTC7 Security using a freight elevator.

NIST claims that as they were getting into the elevator, the lights flickered as WTC2 collapsed (0958) and that, the elevator no longer worked, so they took the staircase instead.

Barry Jennings said that when they reached the 6th floor stairwell landing, there was an explosion and the landing gave way.

NIST claims that when Jennings and Hess got to the 6th floor, that WTC1 collapsed (10:28:22) and that as a result, the lights went out in the staircase, the sprinklers came on briefly and that the staircase filled with smoke and debris.

Barry Jennings states that he and Michael Hess returned to the 8th floor. The lights were out on the 8th floor. He broke an 8th floor window on the Northwest side of WTC7.

Posted Image
WTC7 NorthEast Corner

Barry said that he couldn't stand the heat any longer and was going to attempt an escape down a fire hose. Firefighters called to him to stop because it wasn't safe. Shortly thereafter, the firefighters ran from the scene and because of Barry's obstructed view, he didn't immediately know the reason for their retreat.

As WTC2 collapsed, it became obvious why the firefighters had fled with such haste.

Posted Image

Barry states that he observed the firefighters return and then flee the scene a second time, followed by the collapse of WTC1.

Barry Jennings states later in the LCFC uncut interview, that his certainty about witnessing the collapses of both WTC Twin Towers was based on his observations from that 8th floor location.

In response to Dylan Avery's point that people referring to the 6th floor staircase landing collapse were "going to say "Barry was hit by debris from the North Tower", Barry argues that it couldn't have occurred then for these reasons;

"as I told you earlier, both buildings were still standing because I looked one way, looked the other way..now there's nothing there."

[meaning, nothing there, as in he saw no evidence of the towers having collapsed.]

"Keep in mind, I told you the fire department came..and ran.
They came twice.
Why?
Because building tower 1 fell and then tower 2 fell."


NIST, while clearly aware of Barry's recollections up until his return to the 8th floor of WTC7, including his calling out through the broken window, acknowledge nothing further about what happened to Jennings and Hess until they were rescued.

In keeping with their timeline, NIST states that Barry called for help and that the firefighters, who based on NIST's theory, were no longer under the collapse threat of the Twin Towers, immediately set about working their way up the WTC7 stairwell to rescue him and Michael Hess.

Barry Jennings, was at the 8th floor location for a few hours and had a good view of WTC7's surroundings to the north, east and west, before and after his experience of the two collapses.

If, as NIST states, Barry viewed the scene from his position on the WTC7 8th floor, NE face, after the collapses, he could not have observed any collapse-related debris and dust cloud destruction dramatically occurring during the time that he was there.

How can NIST explain this away?

Barry himself said when he got home, he was glued to the WTC TV coverage. He would have then, and in the years since, seen what those collapses looked like on TV and how they enshrouded WTC7 in their debris clouds.

NIST says that Barry could not have witnessed this.

Barry Jennings has no motive for disagreeing with NIST other than standing by the truth as he recalls it.

NIST on the other hand, has a big problem fitting into their theory, a very destructive explosion occurring below the 6th floor of WTC7 prior to the collapses of the WTC Twin Towers.

MM






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Miragememories
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For those who remain confident that NIST's timeline for Barry Jennings is close enough to the truth, I would like to point out just one example among many, where NIST has taken great liberties with their construction.

According to NIST, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, upon receiving word to evacuate immediately, attempted to take an elevator.

In their publicly released document NISTNCSTAR1-8,
http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-8.pdf

NIST states;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."


We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!.

MM





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Tether

I know you're just dying to joust with someone, so I'll chime in and discuss one point at a time.

Quote:
 
NIST on the other hand, has a big problem fitting into their theory, a very destructive explosion occurring below the 6th floor of WTC7 prior to the collapses of the WTC Twin Towers.

There is video inside WTC7 after the collapse of the first tower, and I don't see any signs of a huge explosion other than some dust and a few broken windows, which most certainly looks more like the result of the tower collapse. We see evidence that no explosion took place other than what Barry has to say. No other person says anything about a huge explosion prior to the first tower collapse, other than Barry. It seems quite likely that NIST is correct, and Barry is wrong, so why is it that NIST should have any inclination to fit an explosion into the scenerio, when everything points to there being no explosion at all?
Edited by Tether, Jul 21 2008, 04:19 PM.
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Miragememories
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Tether
 
"There is video inside WTC7 after the collapse of the first tower, and I don't see any signs of a huge explosion other than some dust and a few broken windows, which most certainly looks more like the result of the tower collapse."

So you must believe that Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, for some bizarre reason lied about the destroyed 6th floor landing which prevented them from completing their evacuation?

I realize it was Barry's story, but Michael Hess was with him. Hess, a lawyer, has had ample opportunity to set the record straight unless as your opinion would force us to conclude, that he supports pointless lies as well.

Given we don't have a timeline for this rescuer, I guess you consider his statement to be irrelevant?

Posted Image

Rescuer:
"It was pandemonium.
It ..something out of a Bruce Willis DIE HARD movie.
um..he was there and he was crying and there was another gentleman crying for help!
We couldn't get to them.
We tried to get through the ..uh.?
We went through the building. We were lost.
Both staircases.
The backside was completely blown away.

There was no way to access.
We couldn't get to 'em."


Tether
 
"We see evidence that no explosion took place other than what Barry has to say."

Again, you talk as if Michael Hess, a key witness who shared in Barry's experiences, was not even there.

Unless caught in a deliberate lie, the firsthand experiences of those two men cannot be ignored just because it doesn't fit your chosen view of the Official Story.

Tether
 
"It seems quite likely that NIST is correct, and Barry is wrong, so why is it that NIST should have any inclination to fit an explosion into the scenerio, when everything points to there being no explosion at all?"

So you have no issue with NIST giving a timeline that makes no attempt to explain it's many contradictions with Barry's testimony and even goes so far as to make the ridiculous claim that it took them on average of 1 minute and 45 seconds to descend from floor to floor during an evacuation?

If they had been evacuating from just below the impact zone of WTC1, at that rate of descent, it would have taken them almost 3 hours!

MM

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Tether

Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.

I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevent to me at this time.

As far as the rescuer goes, the only relevent words he said from my perspective, is that WTC7 was beaten up pretty bad by the second tower collapse, because the video from after the first collapse doesn't show extreme damage like the rescuer said from your perspective. The video doesn't show Both staircases, with the backside completely blown away.

And believe me ....... The dude that took the video inside and out WTC7 would have honed in on that major damge if that was the case. You know it and I know it.

This is a lost cause and Barry is wrong, while NIST is at least close to being correct.
Edited by Tether, Jul 21 2008, 07:15 PM.
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Avenger
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Quote:
 
Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.

What side is that broken window on?
Quote:
 
And believe me ....... The dude that took the video inside and out WTC7 would have honed in on that major damge if that was the case. You know it and I know it.

How do you know he didn't hone in on it? How do you know you've seen everything he recorded?
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Tether

Quote:
 
What side is that broken window on?

The northeast side. I'm assuming you know that, so whats your point?

Quote:
 
How do you know he didn't hone in on it?

It's a very very reasonable assumption when one considers the path he took while taking that video.
Quote:
 
How do you know you've seen everything he recorded?

I know enough and seen enough from the video, to know it's a very very reasonable assumption that Barry is mistaken about an explosion.

If there was an explosion of the kind Barry is decribing, before the collapse of the towers, you would have heard about it from perhaps a hundred people in and around the area. Windows would have been blown out front back and sides of the building.
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Miragememories
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Tether
 
Never said Barry lied, only that he was mistaken about the explosion, unless you want to call the second tower pieces slamming into WTC7 an explosion.

Yes you did call Barry a liar.

He unequivocally states repeatedly that he not only heard the explosion, he experienced the consequences (hanging from
the staircase railing).

He had a lawyer, New York City Corporatation Counsel Michael Hess as a witness who could have easily refuted Barry's claims,
yet he has never done so.

And you say it's not a lie to state; "..he was mistaken about the explosion.."

Please reasonably explain how he could experience what he described and yet be so mistaken?

Tether
 
I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevant to me at this time.

That is like saying the truth is irrelevant to you until you are forced to face it.

How could Michael Hess's account not be of major importance to corroborating Barry Jenning's testimony?

He was their in the stairwell with Barry when the events occurred.

Tether
 
As far as the rescuer goes, the only relevent words he said from my perspective, is that WTC7 was beaten up pretty bad by the second tower collapse, because the video from after the first collapse doesn't show extreme damage like the rescuer said from your perspective. The video doesn't show Both staircases, with the backside completely blown away.

The very short video is very very limited in scope and at no time does it record the staircases in the 6th floor location that Barry Jennings is referring to or give any indication that the camera was ever anywhere near those locations.

Tether
 
This is a lost cause and Barry is wrong, while NIST is at least close to being correct.

You call this "close to being correct"?

NIST states in NISTNCSTAR1-8;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase.
"

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!
.


MM
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Tether

Quote:
 
Yes you did call Barry a liar.

You're beating a dead horse here.
Quote:
 
He unequivocally states repeatedly that he not only heard the explosion, he experienced the consequences (hanging from
the staircase railing).
Quote:
 

Yep thats what he says. Problem here is that he states it happened before the collapse of the towers, and this is very likely where he is mistaken.
Quote:
 
He had a lawyer, New York City Corporatation Counsel Michael Hess as a witness who could have easily refuted Barry's claims,
yet he has never done so.
How do you even know if Hess has any idea what Barry had to say? Do you have some reason to believe that hess has some kind of automatic knowledge about what Barry says?
Quote:
 
Please reasonably explain how he could experience what he described and yet be so mistaken?

Well if Barry hears the second tower collapse into WTC7s facade, and it sounds like an explosion, and it takes out some of the stairwell, and he thinks it's a bomb instead, then he would be mistaken. That would be an honest mistake, and Barry would also not be a liar. He's just stating what he considers to be the truth.
Quote:
 
Tether
Quote:
 
I have no idea what Hess has to say about his ordeal, so his account is irrelevant to me at this time.

That is like saying the truth is irrelevant to you until you are forced to face it.

How could Michael Hess's account not be of major importance to corroborating Barry Jenning's testimony?

He was their in the stairwell with Barry when the events occurred.

What I'm saying here is that I have no intention of hunting down Mr Hess and drilling him with questions, and if noone else does this either, there is nothing to discuss about Hess. Hence Hess is in fact irrelevant to the discussion.

Quote:
 
The very short video is very very limited in scope and at no time does it record the staircases in the 6th floor location that Barry Jennings is referring to or give any indication that the camera was ever anywhere near those locations.
You can interpret that video any way you please. I personally see it as no evidence of a huge bomb blowing the backside of the building completely away. So be it.
Quote:
 

You call this "close to being correct"?

NIST states in NISTNCSTAR1-8;

"As they went to get into an elevator to go downstairs the lights inside of WTC 7 flickered as WTC 2 collapsed..

At this point, the elevator they were attempting to catch no longer worked, so they started down the staircase."

We know for a fact that WTC2 collapsed at 0958.

The NISTNCSTAR1-8 document immediately follows with;

"When they got to the 6th floor, WTC 1 collapsed. . ."

We know for a fact that WTC1 collapsed at 1028.

Simple subtraction tells us that the NIST theory proposes that these two men took exactly, a full half hour (30 minutes) to descend from the 23rd floor to the 6th floor (17 floors).

To put that in perspective, NIST is saying that Barry Jennings, supposedly evacuating with some sense of urgency, descended from one floor to the next, at a rate of 1 minute and 45 seconds!.

All you're showing here is that there is a large block of time unaccounted for in the NIST timeline. Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not. :grin:






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Miragememories
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Tether you simply aren't worth replying to.

I seriously wonder what brings you here since serious discussion certainly
doesn't appear of interest to you.

Your last statement qualifies you for banishment to the Skeptics subForum
in my opinion.

Tether
 
"All you're showing here is that there is a large block of time unaccounted for in the NIST timeline. Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not."


MM


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Tether

Miragememories
Jul 22 2008, 04:08 PM
Tether you simply aren't worth replying to.

I seriously wonder what brings you here since serious discussion certainly
doesn't appear of interest to you.

Your last statement qualifies you for banishment to the Skeptics subForum
in my opinion.

Tether
 
"All you're showing here is that there is a large block of time unaccounted for in the NIST timeline. Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not."


MM


Miragememories ... You're losing in the exchanged of banter, and surely your skin is thicker than this.

Barry and his story has major problems, and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure that out.

So as it currently stands ..... There were no explosions in WTC7 prior to the collapse of the towers, other than the ramblings of somebody that makes no sense.
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Avenger
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Quote:
 
Quote:
 
What side is that broken window on?
The northeast side. I'm assuming you know that, so whats your point?

Why was he on the north side? The north side should not have been damaged by debris.
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
How do you know he didn't hone in on it?
It's a very very reasonable assumption when one considers the path he took while taking that video.

What path did he take? What section of the building was he in?
Quote:
 
Quote:
 
I know enough and seen enough from the video, to know it's a very very reasonable assumption that Barry is mistaken about an explosion.
I know enough and seen enough from the video, to know it's a very very reasonable assumption that Barry is mistaken about an explosion.

He said the lobby was destroyed, right? Like King Kong stepped through it? How can he be mistaken about that?
Quote:
 
If there was an explosion of the kind Barry is decribing, before the collapse of the towers, you would have heard about it from perhaps a hundred people in and around the area. Windows would have been blown out front back and sides of the building.

Not necessarily if it was evacuated.

Some of the windows could've been blast-resistant.
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Lin Kuei
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Tether
Jul 22 2008, 06:25 PM
Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not.
Cya. Thanks for the mature contributions. You aren't welcome here anymore.
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FIMT

Here's a video of DRG talking about the Hess and Jennings exiting the WTC 7 building probably around 11:15 if not earlier because Hess was being interviewed by UPN 9 news at 11:34 a half-mile from WTC 7. So NIST can not be telling the truth saying that Hess and Jennings exited the building around 12:10 to 12:15.

Starts at the 4 minute mark.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KIidy8ztiD4
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SPreston
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Lin Kuei
Jul 22 2008, 11:38 PM
Tether
Jul 22 2008, 06:25 PM
Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not.
Cya. Thanks for the mature contributions. You aren't welcome here anymore.
Thank you. His contribution to justice for the 3000 innocent victims of 9-11, regardless who was responsible, was self-defeating and ridiculous.
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look-up
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Tether
Jul 22 2008, 06:25 PM
Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not.


this is our opposition, folks. this is what they do.

The sane, cool, and logical skeptics, have left long ago. Many of them realizing how ridiculous the official story is, and have stepped down from debunking, knowing that it is futile.

The ones who are left, the hot-headed and disrespectful, show their desperation to make sure our information doesn't reach the public -- the futility of which shows just how unreasonable their position actually is.
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SPreston
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FIMT
Jul 23 2008, 12:45 AM
Here's a video of DRG talking about the Hess and Jennings exiting the WTC 7 building probably around 11:15 if not earlier because Hess was being interviewed by UPN 9 news at 11:34 a half-mile from WTC 7. So NIST can not be telling the truth saying that Hess and Jennings exited the building around 12:10 to 12:15.
Detailing the account of Michael Hess and Barry Jennings in WTC7 prior to the Trade Tower demolitions
Starts at 2:10


Quote:
 
WTC 7 was a 47-story steel-framed office building that was not struck by any aircraft. After reportedly being evacuated around 9:44 a.m. on 9/11, it was damaged by falling debris from the collapse of the North Tower at 10:28 a.m., and fires burned on a few floors after that time. It collapsed suddenly, symmetrically, at or near free-fall speed into its own footprint at 5:20 p.m. In live interviews on 9/11, Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, who were in WTC 7 just after the evacuation was started, reported a major explosion in WTC 7 that collapsed the stairs and trapped them in the building. In a 2007 interview with Dylan Avery and Jason Bermas (not included in Loose Change Final Cut), Jennings stated that he is certain that this explosion preceded the collapses of the twin towers. See http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/june2007/190607interview.htm. In a live interview with UPN 9 News starting before noon on 9/11, Michael Hess twice stated that he and Jennings were trapped in WTC 7 (as the result of the explosion) for an hour and a half, suggesting that the explosion occurred prior to the collapse of the North Tower at 10:28. See http://www.911blogger.com/node/10425. Even if both Jennings and Hess are mistaken about the timing of events, which seems extremely unlikely given all of the consistent details in their statements, the collapse of the North Tower would not explain a major explosion impacting the stairwell, which was located on the North side of WT7’s core, the side furthest away from the North Tower. The following is an excerpt from: "Hanging Around WTC 7", by Amy De Miceli, 6/24/07 at http://www.opednews.com/maxwrite/print_friendly.php?p=genera_amy_de_m_070621_barry_jennings_3a_wtc_.htm.

On the morning of 911 Barry Jennings [Deputy Director, Emergency Services Department, New York City Housing Authority – now reportedly an employee of Giuliani Partners] was with Mr. [Michael] Hess, one of Rudy Giuliani's highest ranking appointed officials, New York city's corporation counsel, (Hess is a Yale and Harvard graduate, a lawyer who has represented the United States in numerous major cases).

It was just after the first attack on the North tower [8:46], but before the second plane hit the South Tower [9:03], when Barry Jennings escorted Michael Hess to the World Trade Center Tower 7. Mr. Jennings recalls a large number of police officers in the lobby of WTC 7 when they arrived. The two men went up to the 23rd floor, but could not get in, so they went back to the lobby and the police took them up in the freight elevator for a second try. When they arrived on level 23, at the Office of Emergency Management they found it had been recently deserted, "coffee that was on the desk, smoke was still coming off the coffee, I saw half eaten sandwiches". [The North Tower collapsed at 10:28 a.m., causing the first acknowledged damage to WTC 7]

At that point he made some phone calls, and an un-named individual told them to "leave, and leave right away". Jennings and Hess then proceeded to the stairs, and made it to level 6, when there was an explosion, and the stairwell collapsed from under their feet, Mr. Jennings was actually hanging, and had to climb back up. They made it back up to level 8, where Barry Jennings had a view of the twin towers, both buildings were still standing. This is an important detail, as many debunkers have used Mr. Jennings statements out of context to claim the damage came to WTC 7 from the towers collapsing, not the case according, to Mr. Jennings.

The interview has been cut off where they say how they made it to the lobby, but when they did make it down, Mr. Jennings found it destroyed and littered with dead bodies. He said it looked like, "King Kong had came through it and stepped on it, so destroyed, I didn't know where I was. So destroyed that they had to take me out through a hole in the wall, that I believe the fire department made to get me out." Shortly after he made it out, he was seen on several news channels telling his story.

Mr. Jennings is still confused as to why Building 7 had to come down at all, and does not accept the official reason that the noises he heard were from a fuel oil tank, "I know what I heard, I heard explosions". Michael Hess has not made any public statements about that morning with Barry Jennings, perhaps we can call on wearechange.org to document Michael Hess's account of the events on 911.
http://www.vt911.org/Introduction%20to%20Evidence.htm

ryknolesdunnflea
 
I have obtained a copy of the live footage broadcast by UPN 9 News, WWOR-TV, on 9/11, and it reveals that Michael Hess, along with Barry Jennings, seem to have been out of the building much earlier than NIST stated in their June 2004 Progress Report. In NIST's report, it places the two individuals' rescue between 12:10 and 12:15, but as can be seen in the video, which I have not the means to upload right now, places he and Mr. Jennings out by around 11:30, because he is speaking live on the news (via telephone with a reporter), at 11:34. The video starts at 10:37, and Michael Hess appears 57 minutes into it. The interviewing reporter, Frank Ucciardo, appears several seconds before. We can further estimate how long Michael Hess had been out of the building by reasoning that he was interviewed "on Broadway about a block from city hall", which puts him near the intersection of Broadway and Chambers Street. On Yahoo maps, the shortest route from what used to be the north face of WTC 7 on Barclay to that intersection is four-tenths of a mile. It seems reasonable to assume that it took no less than five minutes (and probably significantly longer) for Mr. Hess to get to where he was interviewed, assuming he went straight there and practically ran. That is certainly debatable, of course, but I believe five minutes to travel to the location is an exceptionally conservative estimate.

What does all of this mean?

It gives EVIDENCE, but of course does not prove, that the explosions felt by Michael Hess and Barry Jennings very well could NOT have been caused by the collapse of the North Tower. The North Tower collapsed at 10:28. In the interview, Mr. Hess states twice that he had spent the last "hour and a half" trapped in 7 World Trade Center. He says "hour and a half" twice.

The following was in response to, “Mr. Hess, you were trapped in, I believe, 7 World Trade Center. Go ahead, sir.”:

"Yes, I was. I was up in the emergency management center on the twenty-third floor, and when all the power went out in the building, uh, another gentleman and I walked down to the eighth floor where there was an explosion and we were trapped on the eighth floor with smoke, thick smoke, all around us, for about an hour and a half. But the New York Fire Department, as terrific as they are, just came and got us out."

The following was in response to the question, “Where is the mayor located now?”:

“I don’t know, myself, as I said- I was trapped in 7 World Trade Center for the last hour and a half.”

This places the explosion, if Mr. Hess' estimate is at all accurate, around 10:00, significantly before the North Tower collapse. Mr. Hess would have had to have overestimated by at least 28 minutes (and probably longer, considering we are being extraordinarily conservative by saying he got at 11:30), in order for the "explosion" to have been caused by the North Tower collapse. Furthermore, if one is to accept NIST's version of the rescue, which places he and Mr. Jennings being found and leaving the tower between 12:10 and 12:15, then he would have had to have understimated the amount of time he was in there by about 12 minutes. This sounds much more reasonable, but the video, as hard evidence, contradicts any notion this may be possible, demonstrating that he was out by at least 11:30. We can then see, though, how NIST may have gotten their time, that is, if they were operating on the premise that the explosion was caused by the North Tower collapse, and that he and Mr. Jennings were in there for about an hour and a half. I have previously filed a Freedom of Information Act request for the interviews done with Barry Jennings and Michael Hess, as cited in NCSTAR 1-8.

As more analysis is done, and other evidence gathered, I will post more. Please critique any errors, whether they be logical or mathematical. Please remember- this is not a proof of anything, only evidence.
http://www.911blogger.com/node/10425


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SPreston
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Patriotic American
look-up
Jul 23 2008, 08:29 AM
Tether
Jul 22 2008, 06:25 PM
Maybe they (Barry and Hess) gave each other blowjobs before they came up with the bright idea of putting one foot in front of the other. This requires work and we are talking about a city employee and a lawyer. They don't know what work is. I.E. To fucking lazy to take the stairs. They probably spent 25 minutes on the phone, looking for, expecting, someone to fix the fucking elevator. I shit you not.


this is our opposition, folks. this is what they do.

The sane, cool, and logical skeptics, have left long ago. Many of them realizing how ridiculous the official story is, and have stepped down from debunking, knowing that it is futile.

The ones who are left, the hot-headed and disrespectful, show their desperation to make sure our information doesn't reach the public -- the futility of which shows just how unreasonable their position actually is.
Hear ye pseudoskeptics and shills and government loyalists:

Posted Image
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Miragememories
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I know timeline posts can make for some pretty dull reading so I appreciate the support this
thread is now receiving.

It's difficult to obtain any new information but I can add a few items of old info that flesh
things out a bit.

From the Barrett and Collins book Grand Illusion: The Untold Story of Rudy Giuliani and 9/11 on pg.34.

OEM Commissioner John Odermatt, said that after the first plane hit the WTC, he left only two staffers at the command center .

Regarding the this post by ryknolesdunnflea;
http://911blogger.com/node/10425

There was a followup message that adjusts the interview time.

8/5/2007
"In my haste, I may have looked over the possibility that the reference point telling me the video began at 10:37 MAY BE WRONG. This entire exchange MAY have happened 20 or so minutes later. I'm looking into it. Don't vote this thing up, and until I can confirm the time, don't even bother with it. Sorry."

8/5/2007
"It seems that Michael Hess was interviewed closer to 11:59...11:58 and 57 seconds to be more exact. This is still 10 to 15 minutes before NIST says he was even rescued. It is not as provoking, but still important. If, and if only, he left WTC 7 at 11:50, then an hour and a half puts him back o 10:20, still before the North Tower collapsed, but it seems to me that this may still in the margin of error of "an hour and a half" or so. That then makes it harder to argue that the explosion was more likely not from the collapse, but it needs to be established how long he spent between being rescued and arriving at the location where he was interviewed. Maybe the NIST interviews, if obtained through the FOIA, will shed some light on the issue."

Personally, I don't think much of value can be gleaned from that short Hess interview. We really need to see the full NIST interview
which should shed more corroborative light on the Barry Jenning's interview.

MM
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stuarthwyman

I request the two interviews about Jennings and Hess...
NIST refused to disclose the interviews.

I made the appeal and now I'm waiting for the response of the appeal...
I think it is very important...

I made, 2 days ago, another FOIA request on a witness speaking about the time of evacuation of the OEM(...according to NIST): the FDNY number 24 interview of the winter 2004...

Surprisingly, instead of send me the primary info regarding the archieved request log number, like last time, NIST already geeve me the response... That in only 2 days...

Maybe there's not much work for they?!! ...FOIA requests are too much little?!!

I really don't know!

Obviously they refused to disclose the interview with the same assertions used in the Jennings & Hess FOIA response refutation...
Edited by stuarthwyman, Jan 16 2009, 07:02 AM.
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Miragememories
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The only reasonable conclusion is that the NIST must have
a 'zero-cooperation' policy for those not associated with their
'Approved List'.

In a nutshell, the NIST will resist controversy where ever possible.

This proud, normally innocuous government institution, was handed
the 'bomb' of a job determining the technical reasons for the NYC WTC
destruction on 9/11.

An explosive political, as well as scientific issue.

Are they neutral, or were their reports corrupted by political bias?

MM

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Much as been said by skeptics in their attempt to minimize the importance of the Barry Jennings interview.

They claim that he was completely mistaken in his understanding about what occurred while he and Michael Hess were trapped inside WTC7 on 9/11.

Barry claimed that both of the Twin Towers were still standing when they reached the 8th floor of WTC7.

He stated that he broke windows.

Photographs show two broken windows on the 8th floor in the same area that Jennings and Hess were awaiting rescue. The broken window on the north side provided a view of Barclay St. The broken window on the east side overlooked West Broadway provided him with a view up the street where WTC2 would be clearly visible, if still standing, and Mr. Jennings swore that it was.

He stated that shortly after they were first discovered, the rescuers abruptly fled and that WTC2 collapsed.

He acknowledged that at the time, he didn't know that what he was experiencing was the WTC2 collapse, but certainly he couldn't have avoided the dramatic proof presented by its massive enveloping debris cloud.

Posted Image

Following the collapse of WTC2, his would-be rescuers returned but again were forced to flee.

Jennings and Hess then experienced WTC1 collapsing. They could not see it come down but they could not avoid witnessing this second huge debris cloud.

Posted Image

Like a person tired of repeatedly relating a story, Barry Jennings tends to jump around in time during the interview.

One issue that skeptics love to leap on, is that he described seeing burning vehicles when he looked out the window. Obviously that doesn't agree with what would be his expected view prior to the collapse of WTC2, unless those fires were a consequence of projected fiery debris from the aircraft impact. More likely, Barry in his eagerness to relate the more exciting aspects of his often told story, skipped ahead in his narration.

Never in the interview does he show any real appreciation of how damaging his testimony is in terms of its 'inside job' implications.

One statement in particular gives credence to Mr. Jenning's claim that the Twin Towers were still standing when they arrived on the 8th floor of WTC7.

For Barry's testimony to be true, he and Mr. Hess must have experienced the two immense debris clouds which would have occurred in the wake of their fleeing would be rescuers.

Look at this statement;

Barry Jennings:

"And at that time, I told Mike "Mike, you better get under the desk and pray to who you gonna pray to, because I'm gonna pray to who I'm gonna pray to, because it doesn't look like we're
gonna make it.
And that's when the firemen came and saved our lives."


For what reason would Barry Jennings suggest to Michael Hess that he better get under a desk, other than as advice to protect him against more falling debris?

If the Twin Towers had collapsed before they arrived on the 8th floor, as the NIST claims, Jennings and Hess would not have experienced the events which motivated Barry's hide-under-the-desk advice.

And it's not like Barry Jennings didn't discover later what was happening and thus have the opportunity to correct any false impressions.

Barry Jennings:

"When I got home, I sat down in front of the TV and my wife kept saying "why do you keep watching this?"
I couldn't stop watching it and that's when I found out Building 7 came down, I was so surprised."


Clearly Barry would have been thinking about where he was trapped in relation to the repeated views presented on TV of the Twin Tower collapses.

He would know that twice, huge rushing debris clouds occurred, and that for his story to be true, it had to be in agreement with what he was witnessing on TV.

If the NIST was correct, that he and Mr. Hess were actually in the 6th floor stairwell when WTC1 collapsed, he would not have had those two very dramatic debris cloud experiences.

Obviously, the collapses that Barry witnessed on TV must not have contradicted what he experienced.


MM
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Miragememories
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Update.

New video has been made available through a recent FOIA request.

This short video shows Michael Hess calling for help from the
WTC7 NE corner 8th floor window.

http://www.youtube.com/user/IC911STUDIES#p/u/7/ZduP7HTM3cg

Posted Image

Hopefully more revealing videos will soon appear that will shed more light
onto the Barry Jenning's Story.

MM
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Oystein

When the south tower collapsed, the lobby of WTC7 was full of people. Some EMC persons were there, treating a small number of patients (6-12, according to one witness).
No one there had heard or felt an explosion. An explosion below the 6th floor that is strong enough to cause such serious structural damage to prevent Jennings and Hess from using that staircase would very definitely have been noticed by everybody in the building, and reported by at least several.

If there was indeed such an explosion before the first collapse, it should be possible to corroborate that with more witness accounts. (Nearly?) all rescue workers (fire fighters, emergency medical staff, police) were debriefed, and all others had 9 years to come forward.

Barry's claim to have waited several hours for help is false. He says he got out of the building around 1, but was interviewed at some distance from WTC7 before noon.

He, like many other eye witnesses, was very distressed by the events. He tells us quite clearly how he was hammered much later by the news of what really had happened. Quite apparently, he was in the dark the whole time: He had heard about the first plane crash, bit thought it was just a Cessna. He missed the second crash. Doesn't tell us if and when he learned about that. He did not realize that the towers had collapsed until he got home! That Meet the Eyetiness interview - doesn't it occur to you as comical that the reporter never realized Jennings had not been in one of the twin towers, and Jennings was under the impression that his "ordeal" in WTC7 was about the worst that happened to anyone? He had no frame of reference to time-stamp his memories. He is not lying at all, he is just struggling to make sense of very confusing experiences.
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