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| How Much Proof Does CIT need? | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 15 2008, 04:25 PM (2,432 Views) | |
| Bret08 | Jul 15 2008, 04:25 PM Post #1 |
repeated trolling offender
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I know this has been covered before, but it has never been answered. When will CIT take its groundbreaking proof of govt. deception public? I'm getting a little bored seeing your noc 'witness of the week' posts. Why are you spending so much of your time on an insignificant, biased, ban anyone who disagrees messg board, when you have evidence that will uncover the greatest crime in American history? Are you adimitting that your evidence is not incontrovertible? Do you have any evidence that is absolute proof? Is there anything that is not opinion, conjecture, or UNeducated guess. |
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| Domenick DiMaggio | Jul 16 2008, 12:35 AM Post #2 |
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wow they're lively tonight in la la land.....lol who was it that CIT needs to present this to in order to satisfy you? larry king? sean hannity? joe scarborough? rush limbaugh? who exactly? i personally know that they have presented it to some very important people who took it way more seriously than you have. but im not biting on your bait. as for what happens behind the scenes you're a need to know basis and you don't need to know shit. you ain't even on the right side of the fence. and you think someone in CIT or any other part of this movement is going to cater to your demands?
if seeing evidence mount bores you then i have an idea : how about you try loggin the fuckin out?
if you find this board so insignificant then why are you here? if they ban anyone how is it you've managed to maintain your membership??
13 people seeing the plane not on the south side of columbia pike where it is required to support your precious theory is not an opinion, conjecture, or an uneducated guess. the math based on imaginary values touted as proof that planes crossing over the navy annex to the North side of the Citgo station would fall out of the sky because this area is somehow inpenetrable by airplanes it what is an opinion, and a very very uneducated guess. the witnesses saw it there. therefor it was there. not 1 yet sees it on the southside of columbia pike appoaching tearing light poles out of the ground. not 1 of them. so therefor no matter what math equations the jim jones cult runs out touting as evidence they're wrong. because the plane did just that. the people that were there watched it. they all continue to corroborate each other. now go find something more exciting to do since you're bored. asshole. |
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| Bret08 | Jul 16 2008, 12:50 PM Post #3 |
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repeated trolling offender
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Just as I thought, for entertainment purposes only. I take the attacks of 9/11 very seriously and initially came here and elsewhere to see if there was anything that indicated that the govt carried out the attacks. Nothing, nada, zilch. Continue amusing yourselves. There are other hobbies that don't require you to trash the memory of innocent people, or accuse innocent people of murderer. |
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| JFK | Jul 16 2008, 12:55 PM Post #4 |
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You mean like our military has in Gitmo, Abu Graib, and Afghanistan ? Innocent until proven guilty, right ? 
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| Domenick DiMaggio | Jul 16 2008, 11:44 PM Post #5 |
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how many pics of dead iraqi babies do you need to see before you would consider the bush administration to not be 'innocent' or are iraqi babies worth less than american babies? |
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| lordofthelefthand | Jul 17 2008, 08:54 AM Post #6 |
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What does this have to do with the post in question? LLH |
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| JFK | Jul 17 2008, 10:59 AM Post #7 |
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It has to do with Domenick's answering Brett08's question. Do you have anything useful to contribute ? Or are you just trolling ? Edited by JFK, Jul 17 2008, 11:01 AM.
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| Bret08 | Jul 17 2008, 02:44 PM Post #8 |
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repeated trolling offender
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how many pics of dead iraqi babies do you need to see before you would consider the bush administration to not be 'innocent' or are iraqi babies worth less than american babies? Now that is something he should be on trial for. We know that 9/11 was used so he could take his revenge out on Sadam. He wanted to pay him back for plotting to kill his dad. Many Americans caught up in the spirit of coming together, after the tragedy, let him do it. He has used 9/11 to his benefit, no question about it. That doesn't mean that he and others caried out the 9/11 attacks. |
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| lordofthelefthand | Jul 17 2008, 03:05 PM Post #9 |
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Brett08 didn't ask a question in that posting.... LLH |
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| JFK | Jul 17 2008, 03:33 PM Post #10 |
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Post # 5. scroll back and read it.
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| Domenick DiMaggio | Jul 17 2008, 03:53 PM Post #11 |
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9/11 = qui bono? |
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| BoneZ | Jul 17 2008, 04:42 PM Post #12 |
9/11 Researcher
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It also doesn't mean they didn't carry out the 9/11 attacks. There is plenty of scientific, physical and forensic evidence as such and you should try a little reading and researching. Two places to start reside in my sig. 
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| Bret08 | Jul 17 2008, 08:27 PM Post #13 |
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repeated trolling offender
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I have read and researched everything I could find, since I first saw Loose Change 2nd ed. I had to see for myself if the govt really could have been behind 9/11. Is there anything that you can put forth that proves that the govt carried out the 9/11 attacks? I have seen many truthers say things like: " there is no way a 757 caused the damage to the pentagon", "people 30 to 40ft from the impact could not have survived", "A 757 could never fly that fast and low without crashing before it reached the pentagon", "the buildings never would have fallen the way they did, if it wasn't contolled demolition", "UA93 never crashed in that field, because the damage form the pictures I've seen doesn't look right", " several witnesses who independently say the plane was noc can't be wrong, therefore noc is a proven fact". These things have been used as factual proof of a govt cover up. They are not even factual. They are opinions and ideas from LAYMEN. " It is impossible for a 757 to hit 5 light poles and still crash into the pentagon". If it was really 'impossible' don't you think people in the 'know' would say something? There are people all over the world who would know if that was impossible. People who hate the US, who would be glad to reveal the truth. Is it possible that it is not 'impossible'? "Truth is stanger than fiction, because fiction HAS to make sense". There are things called amazing singularities that happen every day. Some people call them miracles. Most people can't figure out how they happend, but we know they happened. Many happened on 9/11. Just because something doesn't look right to you or you can't understand how it could have happened, does not mean that it never happened. |
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| 22205 | Jul 19 2008, 01:00 AM Post #14 |
Arlingtonian
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oh bret, bret, bret, - it is vexing to watch you suffer in incredulity, when there exists verifable proof that the government (is at the very least) lying about what happened at the pentagon. now i empathize with your bewilderment and disbelief, but what can i tell you? it seems you have a firmly fixed BELIEF about things, which refuses to be shaken loose, no matter how much direct evidence is uncovered that exposes the official version of the pentagon incident as a lie. you become "bored" when average ordinary citizens go on record and say what they saw on 9/11 in arlington within 200 yards of the incident, instead of actually opening up your mind and processing and accepting the ramifications of these witnesses and their accounts. you see, in the case of the pentagon and CIT's work, we arent talking about beliefs and opinions. we are talking about deductive reasoning and a body of conflicting information. the southern path and the damage contained on that path are NOT BELIEF. no "truther" made them up. they are the official allegations of the powers that be, disseminated by a press/media which has not bothered to do any investigating. these southern approach and damage allegations are "corroborated" by a Flight Data Recorder, which is claimed to be authentic. PFT (pilots4truth) had already dissected this FDR's info, and shown that even that info put the plane too high and too far north of the poles. but you and the "skeptics" found ways to dismiss those findings, citing incorrect interpretations by PFT. fine. so CIT found their way to Arlington and began to gather information from witnesses to the event in question. the lastest installment of those efforts reveals a substantial number of people who ALL put the plane NORTH OF THE CITGO and directly contradict the "Official" version of "Flight 77's final moments". again, NO interpretation is taking place and NO beliefs are being expressed: just facts. the Gov. says the plane flew here (south) and people who saw the plane said it flew there (north). PLAIN AND SIMPLE. all the other so-called "witnesses" who appeared on paper and on the internet in the days immediately following 9/11, are now nowhere to be found. they wont go on record and they wont go to the locations they were reported to be at, and they wont tell their (southern approach) story, and that should tell you something. i believe some of these witnesses either on their own embellished their accounts, or their accounts were embellished for them via an overzealous or possibly outright lying news media. whatever the reason, these southern approach witnesses have NOT gone on record to confirm the official version. once you subtract from these alleged "witnesses" those who werent even in physical proximity enough to the event to actually see anything, you have NOTHING. aside from Mike Walter and some other media agents, there are no LAYMEN or random passers by who can or have corroborated the official story. so the challenge to the Skeptics remains, find these witnesses and interview them, on location. do that, present your "evidence", and lets see which accounts have more veracity. but such witnesses do NOT exist. i know you dont get it Bret, but its simple why they dont exist: because they CANT exist. WHEN the plane crossed over the pike near paik's autoshop and then went north of the citgo, that automatically voided out any other columbia pike IMPACT witnesses. they would have to be far east enough down the pike, to be past the navy annex buildings, to see this final approach (and impact). furthermore, they would have to have the presence of mind not to become fixated on the explosion long enough to see where the plane went, AFTER said explosion. the ANC witnesses were at ground level with the pentagon, with a hump of a highway partially blocking their view of the "impact point". these witnesses were all running with their backs turned to the pentagon in those final few seconds, hence they did NOT actually see what happened once the plane had flown over them. but what they did see, before their backs were turned, was a plane approaching from NORTH of the CITGO and then powering up and in a DIVING attitude. this FORBIDS the level approach path as alleged in the pentagon security cam's 5 frames. so try to wrap your head around it bret, i know its tough, but you can get there. put away your incredulity for a moment and try to be objective. examine the accounts of these witnesses, and see how it fits in to the location and into the events. go back and re-examine the fallen poles and the cab and the fantastic tale of lloyde england. even if these newer witnesses hadnt been uncovered and documented, there was still enough holes in the official story to allow room for SERIOUS doubts (untouched spools on the lawn, impossible level flight across the lawn, the poles falling right next to their bases, the top of the poles falling next to lower parts, etc). but thanks to these new witnesses, there is NO room for any doubt about the official story being a lie. *** now back to the OP: "How Much Proof Does CIT need?" i think you have it backwards Bret, the question is how much evidence do the SKEPTICS need? what more has to be uncovered before they will accept that there are outright contradictions between witnessed reality vs. reported dis/misinformation? judging by the stubborn-ness displayed by most of them (skeptics) and their psychological and emotional resistance to TRUTH, it seems to me that NO amount of evidence, short of a confession by actual perpetrators/planners of the act, will suffice. now you say bret, "When will CIT take its groundbreaking proof of govt. deception public?". can you please define "public" bret? isnt disseminating that information via PUBLIC DOMAIN like this and other forums, public? isnt some guy in ITALY being informed by the fruits of CIT's labors, public? see bret, not everyone has a bias or suffers from cognitive dissonance. many people are simple folk who know how to add 2 plus 2 and find 4. they can see with clarity the discrepancy/disparity between the official version and whats now been documented by CIT, and they can decide for themselves that the OCT is a LIE. im going to play devil's advocate for you bret, because im not stupid and i see the strawman you're attempting to set up with your implied inability of CIT of "going public" with their damning evidence. lets set aside for a moment CIT's actual efforts to get the "right" people to hear and react to this information (by right i mean those who MIGHT be in a position to act on such information). lets forget about CIT's (on-going) efforts, which are really happening and that i am partially privy to, to get anyone of any authority to take a look at this info and instead lets try an experiment. are you game bret? are you willing to risk a couple of dollars and your own name to find out some real truth? do this bret, get yourself ten envelopes and ten stamps, and ten pieces of paper. on each of the pieces of paper, hand write the following:
now hand-write 10 copies of the above and put them in envelopes and mail them off to CNN, FOXnews, ABC, NBC, CBS, Rueters, BBC, the AP, and then 2 other sources who you (bret) feel might care to do something virtuous with such a tape. maybe you can send it to a congress or senate official, or to the justice department or fbi, or even some federal court. i leave it up to you (bret) to decide who the last 2 recipients should be (tho i highly recommend the fbi or justice dept.). dont forget to include your own name and address on the envelopes before you send them out to the proper addresses. so are you game bret? will you take two hours of your time and less than 10 bucks of supplies to see what would happen? will you put your name to it? just to be safe, so you dont end up in trouble bret for out-right lying, you can keep a copy of CIT's upcoming presentation handy to send any of these sources who actually reply to you, IF they reply to you. perhaps you can even change your wording of the letter to suggest you have witnesses to the event who contradict the official story vs. saying u hava tape of the actual event, that is if you are too uncomfortable to lie to the press/feds. i think to prove my point, its more important for you to pose as if you have a true SMOKING GUN by claiming to have actual tape of the event. but maybe you are scared of lying, so i cant fault you there. but saying you have a tape of the event would go a long way in proving my point that a smoking gun would either be A- dismissed and ignored, or B- have the feds at your door ready to confiscate your proof. please dont misunderstand me as being sarcastic. its an experiment i would carry out if i didnt live in arlington and if i wasnt of middle-eastern descent. but for a (presumably) caucasian male from texas (guessing by your avatar), i dont foresee any sort of real problems with attempting such an experiment. since you bret, are the one questioning the "public" dissemination of CIT's info, i think only you can truly find a satisfactory answer and only by way of your own efforts. if i did it, you might not believe whatever result i come back and report here, but if you do it then you might trust the results. i invite you to hypothesize what the outcome will be bret. humor me if you have to, but i would like to hear what you think it might happen. me, im a paranoid tinfoil hatman, so it doesnt matter what i guess will happen. but you're a believer in the justness of the "system" and of the "establishment". you have faith that they WANT to know the truth and that they would be WILLING to share this info with the public. so come on bret, please do it and tell us what happens. how long do you need? a week? two weeks? how about 2 weeks bret? is that long enough for you to get your letters ready? how about it? 2 weeks from now you can post some pics of the letters ready to be sent, and if you need, i will help you dig up the necessary addresses for you to send them to. then we can all see what happens, right? you will post an honest description of the responses, wont you bret? you game? if not, can/will you explain why you wont do it? no one is asking you to so spend your own dime to fly out here and go around asking real people real questions about what they saw, right? im just asking you to spend 2 measley hours and less than ten bucks to answer this big question of yours once and for all. so will you do it? what might hold you back? is it fear? of what? i thought you had sincere belief and trust in the "system" and in the media to do what's right. so what would you have to fear from trying to confirm those beliefs? cmon champ, step up for once and do something instead proactive instead of passively complaining and expressing doubt. i for one, will gain a lot of respect for you, and chances are you might even become a jref hero (depending on what happens). cmon bret, dont be "bored", get busy son! give of yourself to the cause you are so blindly obedient to. prove me wrong. prove the media isnt pimped by agendas other than truth and public disclosure. im rooting for ya bret, i sincerely want to know what will happen. dont you?  and if not bret, are any of you other skeptics out there willing to try it? *** |
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| x1975 | Jul 19 2008, 02:44 AM Post #15 |
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closed mind
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Let me see the tape first. Why the big secret? Let the sun shine! Post your tape! Who vacations in Arlington next to the Navy Annex? |
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| 22205 | Jul 19 2008, 03:12 AM Post #16 |
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Arlingtonian
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maybe you speed-read and missed it: i do NOT have such a tape. although i lived a stone's throw away from the pentagon on 911, i was asleep that day. my room mate woke me up at (around) 9:45am to tell me all this crazy shit was going on and that the pentagon had been hit by a plane. his specific initial words were, "dude the world is about to end, we're under attack! wake the fuck up." anyway - i was suggesting bret pretend to have a smoking gun, and send 10 letters to 10 agencies (media/federal/etc.) claiming he has a tape in order to see what the response and/or reaction would be. as far as "vacationing in arlington", perhaps it needs to be reworded, maybe i stated it too vaguely. no one vacations in arlington, but they do stay here alot when visiting DC. so perhaps the letter should read "while on vacation at the nation's capitol, i happened to be in arlington". the navy annex lot im referring to used to be an unsecure lot that you could park at freely, actually now (part of) it serves as parking for the airforce memorial. but back on 911 there was no airforce memorial. none the less, it wouldnt be completely out of the ordinary for a tourist to (hypothetically) pull over there and maybe look at a map to find their way back to dc or arlington cemetery. |
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| SPreston | Jul 19 2008, 09:10 AM Post #17 |
Patriotic American
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Geeze can't you read at all? Are you government loyalists so eager to defend the status quo that you don't need to read? Perhaps you government loyalists are programmed with the same data-mining key-word words and phrases which the NSA and Homeland Insecurity use to search out their victims with? Is that why none of you shills ever seem to read anything written in reply to your nonsense on these boards? This is a simple test to prove that the bought and paid for prostitute MSM press corps cares nothing for the truth and have sold themselves to the highest bidder. The test will also show that the FBI does not work for the American people and has no interest in justice or the truth. They too only seek to protect the status quo. We Americans have apparently gotten for ourselves the corrupt and unjust government which we deserve, and we have become its victims. We never should have ignored the warnings of our founding fathers.
Brett would never attempt something like this. Brett is lazy. Brett doesn't even bother with research. Brett doesn't even have a clue on how to use deductive reasoning or simple logic. Instinctively, Brett knows the prostitute mainstream news media would not come running seeking a Pulitzer. Brett probably knows he would not end up on Faux News or CNN, trapped like a rat without a tape to show the world. Brett likely suspects that his ten envelopes would ALL be turned over to the FBI and the FBI would come running and would not believe Brett when he said he made it ip as a test and Brett would quickly find out where all those 9-11 'hijacked aircraft' passengers finally ended up. Of course there would be something positive also. We would not be stuck with Brett's nonsense any longer on this forum. On second thought, this may be a devious trick by 22205 to get rid of Brett08 the troll. Go for it. Some of you other government loyalist trolls should attempt this also. Only good could come from this experiment wrought by the mind of 22205. "Government is not reason. It is not eloquence. It is a force, like fire: a dangerous servant and a terrible master". ~ George Washington p1789-1797 "When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty." ~ Thomas Jefferson p1801-1809 "If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy." ~ James Madison p1809-1817 |
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| Freq Band | Jul 19 2008, 01:11 PM Post #18 |
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Because someone does not buy the conspiracy argument, does not make them fit into your categories.... "government loyalists" or programmed NSA shills. It only serves your argument to compartmentalize people into neat boxes, line up those boxes, pin political photos on them... and load your musket full of hate shot. =FB= |
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| Bret08 | Jul 19 2008, 02:12 PM Post #19 |
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repeated trolling offender
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22205, my point is that you have not shown anything that is proof positive of gov complicity in the attacks. You have said that the FDR data is 100% fake. If you or CIT can PROVE that the FDR data is 100% fake, there isn't a media source in the world who would not report it. If you can't prove it, you can't state it as a fact. Just because CIT interviews a select group of people, doesn't mean that what they say is accurate. Most of the noc witnesses saw the plane go into the pentagon. Why is that part not taken as fact? If Lagasse says he saw the plane 'yaw into the pentagon', I believe him, because that is a lot of detail in that statement. We know whatever hit the pentagon hit it at an angle. I could see why he would describe it that way. How could people who saw the plane crash into the pentagon be fooled, when the plane hits before the explosion? Didn't you see UA175 go into the tower, before the explosion? What blocked the witnesses view of the plane going into the pentagon? There is witness and physical evidence that the plane hit the pentagon. |
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| C.H. | Jul 19 2008, 02:53 PM Post #20 |
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Really? Got evidence?
Please "debunkers", stop with the mindless platitudes. The NOC claim is accurate because of its multiple corroboration. There is no plausible reason for the witnesses to all recall the plane flying NOC, except that the plane flew NOC!
Because these two claims are mutually exclusive, and NOC is supported by the evidence.
Do you believe him even if his claims are physically impossible?
Did they see that or did they deduce that? Did they still see it if its physically impossible?
This is absolutely wrong. The witnesses continue to support the NOC and the physical evidence continues to support that no 757 impacted the Pentagon. Edited by C.H., Jul 19 2008, 02:53 PM.
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| Bret08 | Jul 19 2008, 03:17 PM Post #21 |
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repeated trolling offender
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C.H., you are saying that it is physically impossible for the witnesses to have seen the plane hit the pentagon? How can you make that claim? Just because witnesses have not talked to CIT, does not mean that their accounts are lies, mistakes, or don't matter. If you can't see the fallacy of relying totally on a few peoples' perceptions and memories, then you will never understand the difference between fact and fiction. Would you bet your life that noc and the flyover are absolute facts? |
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| uruk | Jul 19 2008, 09:21 PM Post #22 |
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The truth movement's mantra is to call for a new investigation. The CIT claims to have evidence. That is the sort of thing that will get a new investigation started. So why haven't CIT done this? Vauge suggestions of submitting evidence to people who "take this very seriously" means nothing. Any particular reason for not mentioning who those people are? Not "cowtowing to the likes of us" seems like a lame excuse Edited by uruk, Jul 19 2008, 09:22 PM.
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| x1975 | Jul 21 2008, 10:22 AM Post #23 |
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closed mind
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Conclusion: There is nothing out there to contradict the hijackings of 4 planes by operatives of radical Islamic splinter group and the subsequent suicidal actions. Nothing. So let's pretend there is and see what happens. Nothing. I would hope and pray that the government would not start investigations based on non-existent evidence held by non-existent witnesses, neither would any responsible member of the press. That's why they are mainstream, people generally believe them because they try to have some rational standards, unlike a certain movement I know. |
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| SPreston | Jul 21 2008, 12:00 PM Post #24 |
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Patriotic American
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The three trolls have spoken.    Don't Be Like The Three Trolls 
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| x1975 | Jul 21 2008, 12:22 PM Post #25 |
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closed mind
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Asking questions is fine. But ignoring the answers because they do not fulfill your bias is stupid. In fact, its the same as not asking questions in the first place. |
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