Ahmedinijad: No war with US, Israel

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Ahmedinijad: No war with US, Israel; TIME article
Topic Started: Jul 8 2008, 11:39 AM (713 Views)
The Punisher	Jul 8 2008, 11:39 AM Post #1
Posts: 47 Group: Members Member #66 Joined: 01/16/08	http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1820899,00.html?xid=feed-rss-netzero Excerpt: "Ahmadinejad has in the past called for Israel's elimination. But his exact remarks have been disputed. Some translators say he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map," but others say that would be better translated as "vanish from the pages of time" — implying Israel would disappear on its own rather than be destroyed."
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Headspin	Jul 8 2008, 11:49 AM Post #2
Posts: 975 Group: Members Member #252 Joined: 01/31/08	no translaters say he called for Israel to be "wiped off the map"
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look-up	Jul 8 2008, 02:31 PM Post #3
Posts: 1,642 Group: Admins Member #63 Joined: 01/15/08	"The Truth" is curiously absent from this discussion... hmm
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mynameis	Jul 8 2008, 10:31 PM Post #4
Internet Jujitsu Posts: 1,567 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: 01/15/08	look-up Jul 8 2008, 02:31 PM "The Truth" is curiously absent from this discussion... hmm Perhaps "The Truth" has changed to "The Lie" and then, "The Truth" becomes the lie?



The Punisher	Jul 9 2008, 11:43 AM Post #5
Posts: 47 Group: Members Member #66 Joined: 01/16/08	Here's a good read. Lies, damn lies, and the case for an Iran war http://warofillusions.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/lies-damn-lies-and-the-case-for-an-iran-war/
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The Truth	Jul 11 2008, 10:04 PM Post #6
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	mynameis Jul 8 2008, 10:31 PM look-up Jul 8 2008, 02:31 PM "The Truth" is curiously absent from this discussion... hmm Perhaps "The Truth" has changed to "The Lie" and then, "The Truth" becomes the lie? There is no point discussing that is why I am not debating. None of you are going to change your decision.



Headspin	Jul 12 2008, 04:50 AM Post #7
Posts: 975 Group: Members Member #252 Joined: 01/31/08	The Truth Jul 11 2008, 10:04 PM There is no point discussing that is why I am not debating. None of you are going to change your decision. the truth is not a choice or a "decision". there is only ever a single truth. ...do you get it now?
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The Truth	Jul 12 2008, 09:42 AM Post #8
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	Headspin Jul 12 2008, 04:50 AM The Truth Jul 11 2008, 10:04 PM There is no point discussing that is why I am not debating. None of you are going to change your decision. the truth is not a choice or a "decision". there is only ever a single truth. ...do you get it now? I simply belief that my view of the Iran issue is the truth and yours views on Iran aren't t. You belief your view on Iran is correct and my Imperialistic views on Iran are not.



Headspin	Jul 12 2008, 11:45 AM Post #9
Posts: 975 Group: Members Member #252 Joined: 01/31/08	it is a pity that you never seem to back up your "belief" with any persuasive arguments. you cannot simply present your belief back by only propaganda and expect anyone to take an interest. you can only present a persuasive argument with logic and evidence. apealing to fear (which you do mostly) is the basis to most propaganda. "the jews will destroy germany", "saddam's wmd", "the iranians will annex syria, iraq and afghanistan". it is all the same basic propaganda which is designed to appeal to less informed and less capable minds. it doesn't change from century to century.
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The Truth	Jul 12 2008, 05:43 PM Post #10
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	Headspin Jul 12 2008, 11:45 AM it is a pity that you never seem to back up your "belief" with any persuasive arguments. you cannot simply present your belief back by only propaganda and expect anyone to take an interest. you can only present a persuasive argument with logic and evidence. apealing to fear (which you do mostly) is the basis to most propaganda. "the jews will destroy germany", "saddam's wmd", "the iranians will annex syria, iraq and afghanistan". it is all the same basic propaganda which is designed to appeal to less informed and less capable minds. it doesn't change from century to century. No I use logic. Iran has almost invaded Afaganistan in 1998 that is a fact. Iran was known as Persia till 1935. Iranians have high Nationalism and belief they have been robbed of their empire from the west. The last Persian empire collapsed because of western interference in their government. Iran is capable of reviving the Persian Empire and when the war between Israel and Iran takes place you will see that Iran will retaliate by invading Iraq and conquering other smaller countries.



mynameis	Jul 15 2008, 01:30 PM Post #11
Internet Jujitsu Posts: 1,567 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: 01/15/08	Ways to stop Amedinajad. A.) Fund rival political parties who are non-violent B.) Encourage ambassadorship and exchange programs with Countries for Education. C.) Have a political summit with all concerned parties. D.) Have Independent journalists within Iran to give differing perspectives outside Iran. E.) Offer help with medical, social, and educational problems within Iran. F.) Encourage voices from different political backgrounds a non-violent platform to run their agendas. G.) Offer conciliatory disarmament between Iran and Israel.



The Truth	Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM Post #12
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east.



mynameis	Jul 15 2008, 03:46 PM Post #13
Internet Jujitsu Posts: 1,567 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: 01/15/08	The Truth Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east. Propaganda....



JackD	Jul 15 2008, 04:04 PM Post #14
Posts: 263 Group: Members Member #253 Joined: 01/31/08	...israel and the neo-cons aren't really concerned about a "threat" from Iran, no more than the Pentagon is worried about a "threat" from al-quada. that's just a convenient pre-text, which provides the cover story. Thus, to look at Iran "crisis" as something that should be defused with diplomatic, or whatever, solutions, is to accept, a priori, the neo-con/israel thesis that Iran is a belligerent. there is little evidence for this (they are trying desperately to manufacture it, in the gulf & elsewhere, to no avail) To understand why neo-cons want military attack on Iran, you must look deeper. it has zero, absolutely zero, to do with Iran's threat. it is quite similar to the non-threat of Iraq, which was played up to the hilt.
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The Truth	Jul 15 2008, 05:09 PM Post #15
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	JackD Jul 15 2008, 04:04 PM ...israel and the neo-cons aren't really concerned about a "threat" from Iran, no more than the Pentagon is worried about a "threat" from al-quada. that's just a convenient pre-text, which provides the cover story. Thus, to look at Iran "crisis" as something that should be defused with diplomatic, or whatever, solutions, is to accept, a priori, the neo-con/israel thesis that Iran is a belligerent. there is little evidence for this (they are trying desperately to manufacture it, in the gulf & elsewhere, to no avail) To understand why neo-cons want military attack on Iran, you must look deeper. it has zero, absolutely zero, to do with Iran's threat. it is quite similar to the non-threat of Iraq, which was played up to the hilt. Iran is a military and economic threat to troops in the region and Israel. They don't like Israel or America. We don't have an army which can invade Iran and bring down the current regime. Israel can't do much to Iran unless they nuke them and that would be suicide for both countries. Iran on the other hand has many options to inflict damage to both Israel and the United States.



The Truth	Jul 15 2008, 05:10 PM Post #16
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	mynameis Jul 15 2008, 03:46 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east. Propaganda.... No it is not.



mynameis	Jul 15 2008, 08:00 PM Post #17
Internet Jujitsu Posts: 1,567 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: 01/15/08	The Truth Jul 15 2008, 05:10 PM mynameis Jul 15 2008, 03:46 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east. Propaganda.... No it is not. Yes. It is... It is useless arguing it with you since you suck to propaganda like a dirt devil. Iran renews call for chemical weapons-free world Tehran Times Political Desk TEHRAN -- The Iranian Foreign Ministry on Friday called on the international community to take practical measures to force the major powers, and particularly the United States, to destroy their stockpiles of chemical weapons in order to rid the world of chemical weapons once and for all. During the eight-year war imposed on the Islamic Republic by Saddam Hussein’s Baath regime, Iraqi warplanes dropped over 3000 tons of chemical materials on Iran, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement issued to mark the national day for the campaign against chemical weapons, which commemorates the 21st anniversary of the chemical attack on the western Iranian city of Sardasht. Iraq’s “chemical attacks were not limited to Sardasht, and targeted many parts of our country, especially western and southern border towns, over 300 times during the eight years of the Sacred Defense,” the statement noted. In Iran, the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war is called the Sacred Defense. The Foreign Ministry also accused the then U.S. government of supporting Saddam’s criminal acts and expressed regret that “the so-called modern world has failed to bring these criminals to court.” “The Sardasht disaster was in fact a repetition of the Ypres, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki tragedies” that was encouraged by warmongering U.S. officials, who were close allies of Saddam at the time, read the statement. “Iran’s commitment to the Chemical Weapons Convention and its constructive role in implementing the convention is due to its religious beliefs and in return it expects the international community to make every effort to fulfill their moral and humanitarian duty to rid the world of chemical weapons and bring criminals to justice.” The Foreign Ministry also reiterated its previous proposal calling for the establishment of an international fund to provide assistance to the victims of chemical attacks. “The Islamic Republic, as a major victim of chemical weapons, which experienced the most brutal attacks for eight years, expects the international community to bring war criminals to justice and to compel world powers, especially the United States and the Zionist regime, to live up to their international commitments, especially (their commitments) to the Chemical Weapons Convention. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=171776 Edited by mynameis, Jul 15 2008, 08:45 PM.



The Truth	Jul 15 2008, 11:09 PM Post #18
provacateur Posts: 327 Group: BANNED! Member #621 Joined: 05/28/08	mynameis Jul 15 2008, 08:00 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 05:10 PM mynameis Jul 15 2008, 03:46 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east. Propaganda.... No it is not. Yes. It is... It is useless arguing it with you since you suck to propaganda like a dirt devil. Iran renews call for chemical weapons-free world Tehran Times Political Desk TEHRAN -- The Iranian Foreign Ministry on Friday called on the international community to take practical measures to force the major powers, and particularly the United States, to destroy their stockpiles of chemical weapons in order to rid the world of chemical weapons once and for all. During the eight-year war imposed on the Islamic Republic by Saddam Hussein’s Baath regime, Iraqi warplanes dropped over 3000 tons of chemical materials on Iran, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement issued to mark the national day for the campaign against chemical weapons, which commemorates the 21st anniversary of the chemical attack on the western Iranian city of Sardasht. Iraq’s “chemical attacks were not limited to Sardasht, and targeted many parts of our country, especially western and southern border towns, over 300 times during the eight years of the Sacred Defense,” the statement noted. In Iran, the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war is called the Sacred Defense. The Foreign Ministry also accused the then U.S. government of supporting Saddam’s criminal acts and expressed regret that “the so-called modern world has failed to bring these criminals to court.” “The Sardasht disaster was in fact a repetition of the Ypres, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki tragedies” that was encouraged by warmongering U.S. officials, who were close allies of Saddam at the time, read the statement. “Iran’s commitment to the Chemical Weapons Convention and its constructive role in implementing the convention is due to its religious beliefs and in return it expects the international community to make every effort to fulfill their moral and humanitarian duty to rid the world of chemical weapons and bring criminals to justice.” The Foreign Ministry also reiterated its previous proposal calling for the establishment of an international fund to provide assistance to the victims of chemical attacks. “The Islamic Republic, as a major victim of chemical weapons, which experienced the most brutal attacks for eight years, expects the international community to bring war criminals to justice and to compel world powers, especially the United States and the Zionist regime, to live up to their international commitments, especially (their commitments) to the Chemical Weapons Convention. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=171776 Iran lies it is that simple. Don't be that naive. That like Charlie Manson saying he lives the world.



mynameis	Jul 16 2008, 01:01 AM Post #19
Internet Jujitsu Posts: 1,567 Group: Members Member #50 Joined: 01/15/08	The Truth Jul 15 2008, 11:09 PM mynameis Jul 15 2008, 08:00 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 05:10 PM mynameis Jul 15 2008, 03:46 PM The Truth Jul 15 2008, 03:32 PM http://www.afa.org/magazine/June1996/0696iran.asp This was just in 1996 at the start of their build up. Iran already has the largest biological and chemical weapons program in the middle east. Propaganda.... No it is not. Yes. It is... It is useless arguing it with you since you suck to propaganda like a dirt devil. Iran renews call for chemical weapons-free world Tehran Times Political Desk TEHRAN -- The Iranian Foreign Ministry on Friday called on the international community to take practical measures to force the major powers, and particularly the United States, to destroy their stockpiles of chemical weapons in order to rid the world of chemical weapons once and for all. During the eight-year war imposed on the Islamic Republic by Saddam Hussein’s Baath regime, Iraqi warplanes dropped over 3000 tons of chemical materials on Iran, the Foreign Ministry said in a statement issued to mark the national day for the campaign against chemical weapons, which commemorates the 21st anniversary of the chemical attack on the western Iranian city of Sardasht. Iraq’s “chemical attacks were not limited to Sardasht, and targeted many parts of our country, especially western and southern border towns, over 300 times during the eight years of the Sacred Defense,” the statement noted. In Iran, the 1980-1988 Iran-Iraq war is called the Sacred Defense. The Foreign Ministry also accused the then U.S. government of supporting Saddam’s criminal acts and expressed regret that “the so-called modern world has failed to bring these criminals to court.” “The Sardasht disaster was in fact a repetition of the Ypres, Hiroshima, and Nagasaki tragedies” that was encouraged by warmongering U.S. officials, who were close allies of Saddam at the time, read the statement. “Iran’s commitment to the Chemical Weapons Convention and its constructive role in implementing the convention is due to its religious beliefs and in return it expects the international community to make every effort to fulfill their moral and humanitarian duty to rid the world of chemical weapons and bring criminals to justice.” The Foreign Ministry also reiterated its previous proposal calling for the establishment of an international fund to provide assistance to the victims of chemical attacks. “The Islamic Republic, as a major victim of chemical weapons, which experienced the most brutal attacks for eight years, expects the international community to bring war criminals to justice and to compel world powers, especially the United States and the Zionist regime, to live up to their international commitments, especially (their commitments) to the Chemical Weapons Convention. http://www.tehrantimes.com/index_View.asp?code=171776 Iran lies it is that simple. Don't be that naive. That like Charlie Manson saying he lives the world. No, I think you lie...as far as the media is concerned I think they lie. Iran hasn't shown themselves to be trusted more than the U.S. as far as policy is concerned. I think that the Britain, US, Europe has less credibility than Iran. Edited by mynameis, Jul 16 2008, 01:02 AM.



22205	Jul 19 2008, 12:35 AM Post #20
Arlingtonian Posts: 444 Group: Members Member #24 Joined: 01/14/08	i'll leave it to "the Truth" to mine some quotes of his own from the following source to support his position, but the following information is from an authority on the relevant issues. the "NTI" (nuclear threat initiative) tries its best to come off as objective, although imo it still leans heavily in favor of a "Western agenda". but NTI's assessment is as close to being an unbiased source as one can get, especially in the eyes of the pro-israeli/usa agenda proponents/defenders, since it tells both sides of the allegations against iran: http://www.nti.org/b_aboutnti/b_index.html Quote: NTI is a place of common ground where people with different ideological views are working together to close the gap between the global threats from nuclear, biological and chemical weapons and the global response. Co-chaired by philanthropist and CNN founder Ted Turner and former U.S. Senator Sam Nunn, NTI is governed by an expert and influential Board of Directors with members from the United States, Russia, Japan, India, Pakistan, China, Jordan, Sweden, France and the United Kingdom. Board members include a former U.S. Secretary of Defense, members of the legislative branches of government from the United States, France, Russia and the United Kingdom; a member of the Jordanian royal family; a Nobel prize winning economist; a world renowned nuclear physicist; the former commander of U.S. nuclear strategic forces and other top experts in international security issues. The foundation's activities are directed by NTI Co-Chairman Sam Nunn and NTI President Charles B. Curtis. http://www.nti.org/index.html Quote: The Nuclear Security Project started with the January 4, 2007 Wall Street Journal op-ed by former Secretary of State George Shultz former Secretary of Defense Bill Perry, former Secretary of State Henry A. Kissinger and former Senator Sam Nunn. All four authors are leading the Project and NTI serves as the Project Secretariat. http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Biological/2299.html Quote: As there is no concrete mechanism for verifying government reports or allegations from exile groups, many of the allegations regarding the Iranian BW program remain unsubstantiated. Most of the literature and accusations come from CIA reports, uncited writings of experts, and claims made by Iranian dissidents. The majority of these reports cite Iranian attempts to purchase fusaria from Canada and the Netherlands as evidence that Iran is working on a covert weapons program. While this could be true, it should be noted that the utility of these fungal species is not limited to BW applications. For instance, the Iranian Research Organization for Science and Technology claims it researches Fusarium spp. to fight agricultural ailments in sunflower, tomato, and tobacco fields. Also, Iran offered one of its premier facilities, the Razi Institute for Serums and Vaccines, to host mock inspections for the BWC. If covert activities had in fact been taking place at this location, these inspections would have significantly jeopardized such efforts. Research of publicly released information from Iranian scientific institutions shows no concrete proof of an offensive BW program. However, the available information does not disprove allegations made by a variety of sources. The sophisticated research facilities in Iran could easily serve as a front for illicit BW-related activities and offer a legitimate excuse to import dual-use material. Before the 1990 Gulf War, Iraq had used its single cell protein research program at al-Hakam to camouflage its development of biological agents, including B. anthracis. Similar, presumably legitimate advanced research is being carried out at the National Research Center for Genetic Engineering and Biotechnology near Tehran. Even if Iran possesses these biological agents, it faces a significant challenge in their weaponization and delivery. There is no indication that Iran has successfully weaponized BW agents. Given its current state of technology and the problems associated with delivering a sophisticated BW agent, it is unlikely that Iran currently has the means to carry out a significant biological attack. http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/Chemical/index.html Quote: Although Israeli and US intelligence agencies continue to insist that Iran maintains a stockpile of chemical weapons, no effort has been made to take advantage of the challenge inspection mechanisms provided by the Chemical Weapons Convention (CWC) to inspection Iranian facilities. Furthermore, none of the allegations made regarding the stockpiling of CW can be verified using information available in the unclassified domain. Although information on WMD programs for many countries is often limited, this is not the case when it comes to assessing Iran’s alleged CW program. Instead the analyst must sift through a mountain of information, much of which is long on allegation and short on facts or specific, verifiable evidence. This difficulty is compounded by the fact that much of the information can be directly traced back to just a handful of sources, little if any of which can be independently corroborated. Most of the sources have a pre-existing bias against Iran, potentially leading to doubts about the veracity of their information and rendering non-factual interpretations or analysis somewhat suspect. Doubts about the validity of information publicly released by Western intelligence agencies, openly or otherwise, have been increased by revelations of selective reporting, the use of unreliable or biased sources, politically motivated leaks and ineffective analysis that emerged in the wake of the 2003 invasion of Iraq. Iran submitted a declaration on its chemical facilities and its past CW stockpile, it has destroyed chemical weapons production equipment in the presence of OPCW inspectors, and it has undergone a number of OPCW inspections of its chemical industrial facilities. Iran continues to play an active role at the Organization for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons (OPCW), is recognized as a member in good standing, and currently serves on its executive council. Although U.S. and Israeli intelligence agencies continue to insist Iran maintains a stockpile of chemical weapons, no challenge inspections of Iranian facilities have been requested, and none of the allegations made regarding the stockpiling of CW can be verified in the unclassified domain. http://www.nti.org/e_research/profiles/Iran/index.html Quote: Iran strongly denies producing or possessing chemical weapons. To date the United States has not pursued options available to it under international law to convincingly demonstrate Iranian noncompliance with the CWC. now im not saying that i actually believe the Kissingers and Ted Turners of the world are truly objective in regards to Iran. quite to the contrary actually, but thats beside the point. the fact that even people with a possible bias admit that Iran is NOT capable of a- bw/cw production and b- effectively weaponizing would-be products from said production and c- delivering these weaponized agents to foreign targets, proves that there must be some doubt about Iran's actual guilt. add to that the US government itself is in a position to force the issue, but does NOT do so, and you have to wonder why. DO they believe Iran is guilty and are choosing to look the other way? that in and of itself requires major thought. or the superpowers of the west dont think they have enough evidence of such weapons, so they dont want to be forced to prove it. then you factor in the fact the USA doesnt need proof of WMD's in iran, cuz they can simply manufacture such evidence (like the did with iraq) and go ahead and attack anyway. yet they DONT do this. ponder that question TheTruth, and only then you will finally begin to see whats really going on between Iran and the USA. they are not the foes they pretend to be, and there will be no war with Iran. i have been saying it for over 2 years and i havent been proven wrong yet. Iran is as much of a threat in the region as the USA needs it to be. thats a huge concept, so please read that prior sentence and really ponder it. the usa NEEDING iran to be perceived as a threat to the others, why? why indeed. conversely, iran is vying for a spot in this game just so it can call more of its own shots, not to attack the world. personally i dont see why outsiders should dictate to iran how it should govern itself with regard to attempting to be a world superpower. i understand why they dont want iran to do so, but i dont see any legitimate justification for keeping iran stymied and marginalized. yes there will always be the "boogeyman" fears and propaganda, and iran will always be accused of wanting to dominate the world, but that cant ever be the case. iran doesnt have the resources or power. the real western agenda is to limit iran from having autonomy over its own region. so no iran doesnt want to rule the world, i dont think anyone's got America beat where thats concerned. i personally believe that iran does indeed have some bio/chemical agents stocked up and possibly is working on weaponizing them and finding ways to deliver them to far away places. i even believe they are pursuing nuclear warfare technology, but i dont think iran is looking to end the world. iran is entitled to level the playing field in their favor and in having a real say in matters relevant to its own region, and i dont see why they shouldnt. *** ETA: what happened to "The Truth"? why did dannyboy get banned?



hanuri	Aug 16 2008, 06:37 PM Post #21
Posts: 58 Group: Members Member #791 Joined: 08/09/08	it´s simple. US wants the important position in Midle east. why ? that black stuff oil is there mostly. it´s all in one sentence ; positon and oil. israel wants to wipe iran out for their own reasons . they give shiat about the possible effects worldwide. all they see is Israel . and looks like US is the dog who follows it´s master not vica versa like one would think considering who gave Israel the chance to live and prosper by funding it directly and giving the best possible weapons as well...... all else is just blowing in the wind
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