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| truthaction.org on mark dice; Citizen Pawn - I see your points | |
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| Topic Started: Jun 17 2008, 03:50 PM (376 Views) | |
| Flippy | Jun 17 2008, 03:50 PM Post #1 |
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http://truthaction.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3459 I cannot get over the fact that it appears Mark is using 9/11 as an attempt to make money. |
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 17 2008, 06:16 PM Post #2 |
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For the record, I don't believe Mark Dice is using it for money. He claims he works 50 hours a week. I believe that HE believes in his cause, but at the same time doesn't mind the attention. He's a handsome guy too, maybe the chicks dig it, I dunno. On another note, it was weird to see the thread title mix me and Truthaction.org together. I know that's not your intention, it just looked odd. I just want to state implicitly that I am in no way affiliated with them anymore or an active poster there. I do not wish to be considered in the same boat as them, even though we may agree on the Mark Dice issue of going on the Reagan show. Otherwise, I don't want to be associated with them. Just wanted to make that clear.  But I did notice that people on 911Blogger and Truthaction felt the same way about M.D. At least I don't feel like the lone raving dissident. |
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 17 2008, 06:25 PM Post #3 |
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Additionally, This whole Reagan/Dice thing will be long forgotten by this time next month. The chance to prosecute under State, Federal, or FCC law, is now totally washed away by the appearance of Mark Dice on his show. Even though Mark Dice "handled it nicely", the big picture effect of walking softly and striking with a massive , collective, and angry BIG STICK, is kind of a closed deal. I would be shocked if a Prosecutor takes the case, knowing that Mark Dice engaged the enemy. Someone who is "in fear of their life" doesn't go on talk shows of the accused. Think Ron Goldman's family inviting O.J. Simpson over for Tea, before suing in criminal court for damages. But it's his decision. The rest of us should never tolerate threats of any new pundit against 9/11 Truthers. If I was a JREF'er I would support the same conclusion, but we all know asking that of a JREF'er is a far fetch.;) Let's say, MOST humans have a hard time advocating the murder of innocent people just for speaking out. It's something we all should fight. And that goes for people we disagree with, even in Philosophy or Theory. I support everyone's right to act and think like a moron. Edited by Citizen Pawn, Jun 17 2008, 06:28 PM.
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| BoneZ | Jun 17 2008, 06:48 PM Post #4 |
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I agree, Citizen Pawn. By Mark going on Reagan's radio show, he negated any chance of prosecution. I sure would love to get a class action lawsuit against Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity and a few others that have spewed these types of comments about 9/11 researchers. |
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| Flippy | Jun 17 2008, 09:44 PM Post #5 |
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CP I am curious as to why you are seemingly anti "truthaction.org" I find some of the posts there to be constructive. I'm curious for your opinion. Please feel free to Private Message me if you feel that to be more appropriate. I am undecided on Mark Dice. I mean initially I saw his press attention as a good thing. After reading posts on these boards as well as doing my own bit of Mark Dice research I am left with the feeling that he will do anything for attention. I could be wrong. I could have the completely wrong impression. One of the things that helped form this impression is from reading a CP post in which he speaks of Mark only posting on this board about things he's done. Not engaging in conversation. Seemingly constantly speaking in the 3rd person. "Mark Dice on FOX News" Posted by Mark Dice. Mr. Dice I know you will see this. Hopefully your visits to these boards are not always to hype things you've done. Perhaps you could use this thread to address some of the concerns detailed by this boards members in various threads that exist here. |
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| The Punisher | Jun 18 2008, 01:47 PM Post #6 |
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As Shakespeare wrote, "some are born great, some achieve greatness, and some have greatness thrust upon 'em." Mark Dice made an effort to spread 9/11 truth using unconventional ways and it put him front and center under the lime light. 9/11 truth is only one aspect of his Truth Manifesto. I don't believe that anyone is so altruistic that they would work for free. Any effort put forth for a cause should have some payoff. |
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| Killtown | Jun 18 2008, 01:56 PM Post #7 |
Childish Hypocrite
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Does anyone trust any of the two (truthaction/mark dice)? |
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| look-up | Jun 18 2008, 02:05 PM Post #8 |
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trust is irrelevant. I don't trust anyone on here... I can still listen to what you all have to say though.. RE: Mark going on Reagan's show... He spoke directly with FBI lawyers who told him explicitly that it would not hurt the prosecution of Mike Reagan to go on his show. I have seen no reason to think Mark is lying about that. If you guys are so upset with the major faces in our movement, then you really need to get your own face out there and then we can all sit back and make unfounded accusations against you simply because we don't agree with everything you say. We are all people. Most of us are all very genuine in our discussions. None of us is going to be perfect in every way. None of us is going to have the ultimate strategy for getting at the truth. That ultimate strategy lies somewhere amongst all of the imperfect ones. If someone says to you, "Do you agree with Mark DIce?" You can always answer, "Well it depends upon which issue you are referring to." You can then explain to this person that you agree that 9/11 was some sort of inside job, but that you disagree with his other causes. There are things each of us can find to agree with each other on, and others we will always disagree on. The only thing that causes us to cease to be allies to one another, is this divisive abuse upon the people who are actually getting out there and risking everything and who understand that ridicule like we are reading in this thread, is going to happen... ...because after all, you can't please everyone. |
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| Killtown | Jun 18 2008, 02:11 PM Post #9 |
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Childish Hypocrite
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The thing about Dice is that he pulls a lot of stunts, so we never know if what he is going to do next is legit, or just another stunt. Truthaction is the biggest 9/11 gatekeeper forum on the net. 95% of their time seems to be gossiping who is disinfo. |
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| The Punisher | Jun 18 2008, 02:37 PM Post #10 |
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If you listened to him on Mike Regan's show, he spent a bulk of the show informing Regan that he was still actively pursuing a case against him. By no means did he accept Regan's apology on the show. I heard him on the airwaves and he did a great job. |
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| Flippy | Jun 18 2008, 02:49 PM Post #11 |
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He also left out quite a few opportunities to present facts. When Mike was asking about "Who did this, give me names." Mark seemed dumbfounded. A good answer would have been Minetta states that Cheney was warned that the plane was 50 miles from impact. If Cheney knew that why were the buildings not evacuated? (Insert any other factoid about 9/11 and "WHO" here) The difference here is that Dylan and Justin did their own research for LC1, LC2, and LCFC. The monies they were trying to make were to pay back investors. Mark has this "resistance movement" (which probably consists of Mark Dice, and Mark Dice.) in which he is trying to sell a book comprised of a ton of other peoples research. I guess if people are cool with others making money off of research they did not do then who am I to care. Typically though, people make money on books that they did the research and writing for. I admit that because I have not seen the book I cannot make judgment. But I'm not going to purchase it. KT - I see your point about gatekeepers. I also see these guys doing SOMETHING every 11th to promote 9/11 truth. Very ironic for me to say this in this post, but... We really need to stop with the divisiveness in this movement. |
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 18 2008, 04:22 PM Post #12 |
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No need for a private PM... To answer ,I don't enjoy people who nominate someone "disinfo" on a weekly basis, and then commit hours of time writing 'articles' about the person based on hunches. I also don't enjoy the gossip. If you want to ask someone what their intentions are, go to them. I challenge my objects of suspicion directly, and give them a chance to defend themselves. There are some good people there though, but they are mostly the activists. The lounge area is filled with 10 or 15 regulars that stroke each other or "gatekeep" like Killtown said. They are intelligent folks though, just misplace energies, which isn't my cup of tea. After a while, it all got really boring. They seemed like JREF, in the reverse. A closed club of a handful of 'authorities' in how things should run. That site (lounge specifically) is the only place I actually roll my eyes at when I read the weekly posts. I don't care about people that get paid for their efforts at research(Loose Change and others). Hardly anybody can survive these days doing anything for free. My beef is with people who create a "character" and are in this whole thing to be "9/11 Famous", or are outlandish for shock value. There is only one person who I think is "making a buck off of 9/11", and that is no other than Alex Jones. Infowars and Prisonplanet are SPAM sites, mixed with alternative news. I don't enjoy spam, I don't enjoy Ted Gunderson's tactics. They play on a person's fear during the radio show, and then they 'remedy' that fear in the commercial breaks, with a product that will make it all easier to survive by. I don't like it. Other than Alex Jones and POSSIBLY DRG, I'm not too worried about people making a buck. Like I said, what offends me more are people that just want to be part of something, and scream as loud as they can to get some "revolutionary' feelings off their chest. Edited by Citizen Pawn, Jun 18 2008, 04:26 PM.
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| Killtown | Jun 18 2008, 04:32 PM Post #13 |
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Childish Hypocrite
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1) Well if no-planers did something every 11th, I don't think a lot of you would applaud that. 2) I agree, but you thoughts should be directed at them since they are the cause of 90% of the divisiveness. |
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 18 2008, 04:34 PM Post #14 |
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I don't feel that the Loose Change guys did anything wrong by making money for a film. Who in their right mind would expect someone to put together a theater ready documentary for free, with no recoup? Oh that's right..... www.randi.org Edited by Citizen Pawn, Jun 18 2008, 04:34 PM.
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 18 2008, 04:55 PM Post #15 |
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I thought about what I said. What I think I mean is that Alex Jones and the whole Ted Gunderson "Empire" makes me suspicious. The whole crew of them seem like used car salesmen. Alex Jones' whole "Buy my new documentary' thing just wore out it's welcome. So I am wondering if the whole GNC Radio crew and it's team are now 'advising' Mark Dice on P.R. I guess that would be for Mark to answer, but Mark doesn't seem to talk to us little folk personally. He only steps in to talk about his accomplishments and newest adventures, before jetting away. So Mark, if you choose to answer, you being 'advised' by the Gunderson Dynasty? Late night phone calls with "Hey Mark, you know what you should do...." etc. etc.? Edited by Citizen Pawn, Jun 18 2008, 04:56 PM.
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| Flippy | Jun 18 2008, 11:44 PM Post #16 |
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Thank you KT and CP. You have addressed my points and brought new concerns to my mind. I appreciate your candor. |
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| Mark Dice | Jun 19 2008, 12:48 AM Post #17 |
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Sorry, I spend my time getting the word out, not answering dumb questions by conspiracy theorists who think that alex jones and gcn are 'advising' me.
Edited by Mark Dice, Jun 19 2008, 12:50 AM.
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 19 2008, 02:23 AM Post #18 |
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I didn't think the question was stupid, it was direct. What is a 'conspiracy theorist"? Is that like someone who believes Satan and the "Illuminati" are all dancing at Bohemian Grove naked with Batman capes eating children and drawing mermaids in the sand? I agree though, you're "getting the word out". No harm in that. Just makes sure the 'word' is factually correct and able to be verified, and can stand under scrutiny. Otherwise, thanks for your support. 
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 19 2008, 02:51 AM Post #19 |
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By the way, here are some quotes from your press release about the revised Manifesto: "The most knowledgeable and respected researchers have endorsed Mark’s work. Alex Jones, Jim Marrs, Texe Marrs, Ted Gunderson and others have given their endorsement of The Resistance Manifesto, and the book has proved to become more valid and important with every passing day." "The meaning of the mysterious Georgia Guidestones monument and why the elite want to reduce world population by killing billions of people. " "Other aspects of the New World Order are also explored in extreme detail. The philosophy of the Illuminati and its subsidiary secret societies is fully explained and ruthless mind set of the elite members is exposed. " "The Vatican’s plan to establish the Catholic Church as the only “true” Christian authority in an attempt to later unify Christianity into the one world religion. " “I own most of the old esoteric books that you sometimes hear people talk about when discussing the New World Order and the Illuminati. I have studied them for years, and in the manifesto I show that its not just me making claims about what the Illuminati is and what their plans are, but I clearly show you that Illuminati authors have clearly written out their plans in books that are obscure, yet available to the public.” Imagine I'm Joe Blow and coming to find out about 9/11 from you for the first time. Overwhelming a tad. Not that I'm saying you don't have the right to write this stuff. Remember, I was one of the people defending you against calls for your murder? Being that I support your right to act like a Jack ass, and would take a bullet for your right. I WILL question WHAT it is you're WRITING about, so I know exactly WHAT I would be taking a bullet for. Now you go back to 'getting the word out'. Do whatever it is you think will 'help', but remember bro, people are watching. Your choice. And next time you address people as 'conspiracy theorists' take a look in the fucking mirror.
Not such a stupid question after all huh? |
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| Citizen Pawn | Jun 19 2008, 02:56 AM Post #20 |
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And the next time you're here for one of your visits down from the mountain tops, why don't you write a press release thanking all the good people that defended you on dozens of forums related to 9/11, though we disagreed with your decision to go on. The people who actually called on your behalf and were shocked when they found out you were going on to speak with the advocate of your murder after claiming to file 'charges' against him. |
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| Q | Jun 19 2008, 05:31 AM Post #21 |
A Higher Evolution
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This is getting needlessly personal. If The Resistance Manifesto is such a money-spinner, why is Mark holding down a full-time job to get by? As for criticising the book based on lack of research, when you've seen as many PhDs as I have that argue about the significance of the presence or absence of a comma in a particular sentence, you quickly learn that there is very little research being done inside academia anyway. University's current function is to tell you what to think as opposed to its advertised purpose of teaching you HOW to think. Just because I don't subscribe to all Mark's religious beliefs, is no reason to start attacking him. If (as above) he was advised by authorities that appearing on the show would not alter his ability to bring charges, then I don't really think he needs to be afraid that Mike Reagan (unlike gwb) is going to be sufficiently moronic to carry out his threat in front of the TV camera. Please remember that this is a forum, not a bitch-fest. Argue the issues not the character. |
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| Flippy | Jun 19 2008, 10:28 AM Post #22 |
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Agreed, and well said. Rethinking this a bit has made me realize that the truth movement cannot vote for whom we have as a public spokesperson. I was disappointed with Marks responses to Mike. While listening to it I was screaming "say this, say that" etc.. at my computer. I just get the feeling that he wants to be part of the truth movement at arms reach. I have not seen attempts from Mark to befriend anybody in the truth movement that cannot offer him publicity. |
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| Lin Kuei | Jun 19 2008, 10:49 AM Post #23 |
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Exactly. Also I'm pretty sick of whenever somebody actually gets out there and does something proactive you can be assured there is an army of armchair critics who will always know how it all could have been done better... to all those who think Mark could have done better - get out there yourselves and show us all how it can be done better!!! |
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| look-up | Jun 19 2008, 10:50 AM Post #24 |
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Edited by look-up, Jun 19 2008, 11:07 AM.
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| look-up | Jun 19 2008, 11:04 AM Post #25 |
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I understand your suspicions, but Alex has nothing to do with the sponsors on the radio show. He doesn't even have a say in what they play during the breaks. He will sometimes endorse products that he personally uses. That's the only time he makes an endorsement. Those are the ones with his voice on them. Trying to sell his DVD is getting the word out. Why would someone make a film and not ask people to watch it? He's also said before that they have rejected some bigger name sponsors on the network because these were sponsors who they feel are part of the "establishement" and they would be taking money from the beast, essentially. So as a result, we do have to put up with some really ridiculous comercials, because afterall, it is better to be on the air than not to be. |
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