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| Proof of thermite?; More strong evidence | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 28 2008, 10:09 PM (6,212 Views) | |
| Freq Band | May 18 2008, 01:10 PM Post #201 |
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It's not me who's saying so, it's centuries of ceramic potters. Wood fired kiln Another and Another
No. =FB= |
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| Headspin | May 18 2008, 01:40 PM Post #202 |
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those kilns you bring up are not capable of melting structural steel or iron, so using an analogy of something else that is simply "hot" isn't very helpful, if anything it demonstrates that the temperatures in the rubble pile should have been less than produced in a kiln since the debris piles of wtc 1, 2 and 7 were not actually kilns. did the rubble pile of wtc7 have a "fresh air" supply from subways and sub-ground floors? Edited by Headspin, May 18 2008, 01:43 PM.
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| Headspin | May 18 2008, 01:53 PM Post #203 |
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"I saw melting of girders in World Trade Center" - Dr. Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl professor of civil and environmental engineering at the University of California Berkeley. http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/science/jan-june07/overpass_05-10.html  http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/context.jsp?item=a091901astanehfinds&scale=0#a091901astanehfinds Edited by Headspin, May 18 2008, 01:54 PM.
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| Headspin | May 18 2008, 02:07 PM Post #204 |
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One piece Dr. Astaneh-Asl saw was a charred horizontal I-beam from 7 World Trade Center, a 47-story skyscraper that collapsed from fire eight hours after the attacks. The beam, so named because its cross-section looks like a capital I, had clearly endured searing temperatures. Parts of the flat top of the I, once five-eighths of an inch thick, had vaporized. Less clear was whether the beam had been charred after the collapse, as it lay in the pile of burning rubble, or whether it had been engulfed in the fire that led to the building's collapse, which would provide a more telling clue. The answer lay in the beam's twisted shape. As weight pushed down, the center portion had buckled outward. ''This tells me it buckled while it was attached to the column,'' not as it fell, Dr. Astaneh-Asl said, adding, "It had burned first, then buckled." http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B05E6DC123DF931A35753C1A9679C8B63 |
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| Avenger | May 18 2008, 02:39 PM Post #205 |
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So you have no explanation for this molten iron mixed with sulfur. Thanks for your honesty. |
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| Freq Band | May 18 2008, 04:26 PM Post #206 |
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I have answered "no" because I have not researched it. Therefore I cannot comment. =FB= |
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| Freq Band | May 18 2008, 11:54 PM Post #207 |
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Alright, I'll stab at it. I'll throw some info out there for anyone to consider. "Drywall is composed of 92% gypsum (calcium sulfate dihydrate CaSO4 2H2O)" "Incineration of drywall is also a poor disposal option because the sulfate present in gypsum is converted to sulfur dioxide gas. Sulfur dioxide gas reduces the alkaline scrubbers ability to remove other acidic gases." http://www.anr.state.vt.us/dec/wastediv/recycling/pubs/gypsum.pdf  When powdered, it will burn at...(reference needed). Sulfur dioxide, the easy definition : "Inorganic compound, heavy, colourless, poisonous gas (SO2). It has a pungent, irritating odour (the smell of a just-struck match). It occurs in volcanic gases and dissolved in the waters of some warm springs. Huge quantities are made industrially for use as a bleach, as a reducing agent, and as sulfites, which are food preservatives. It is a precursor of the trioxide (SO3), used to make sulfuric acid. Sulfur dioxide is formed when sulfur-containing fuels are burned; in the atmosphere it can combine with water vapour to form sulfuric acid, a major component of acid rain." http://www.answers.com/topic/sulfur-dioxide?cat=technology Bleach will easily rust bare steel. I use bleach at my job to do just that....make new steel look old.... literally in minutes. Huge quantities of drywall dust were at GZ, as were heat and fire. But the question remains is, was it able to transform into sulfur dioxide in sufficient quantities to corrode holes in steel. Don't dismiss this too fast, as all the necessary ingredients were present. Glancing at many wikipatents, it doesn't seem too un-probable that "elemental sulfur" in trace amount could have resulted from the wild mixture of compounds, fire, and water/steam found at GZ. Oh, and there was salt water being pumped from Hudson Bay to dowse the fires for over a week. http://www.fireboat.org/press/nthp_101801.asp =FB= |
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| Headspin | May 19 2008, 03:55 AM Post #208 |
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post 204 suggests that the beam melted prior to collapse, which would rule out any magical processess in the rubble pile causing the melting and thinning of thick structural I-beams, including the formation of holes like "swiss cheese" which looked like parts of the steel had "vapourised". sulphur dioxide is not elemental sulphur, it is a gas and disperses in air, disperses much faster in hot air I would suggest. Any interaction with water is likely to produce a very weak acid certainly not capable of dissolving its way through 1-inch steel I-beams like blood from a sigourney weaver alien. You mention bleach, not sure what the relevance is. No the question does not remain, sulfur dioxide does not melt or vapourise structural steel.    |
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| tharg | May 19 2008, 08:50 AM Post #209 |
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And you base this opinion on what research exactly? I think you will find that they werent 1 inch thick, by the way.
You keep introducing terms like these, yet the very analysis of the samples shows that the steel never "melted" or "vaporised", it was chemically attacked at a far lower temperature than the melting point of steel. SO2 is well known for corrosive attacks on steel, you dont have to research very hard to find this out. This took about 2mins to find. The article also mentions that temperature plays an important part in the rate of corrosion by SO2. http://tinyurl.com/6mdb6e BTW. Let me know when you have found a result from a thermitic reaction that ... 1) even looks vaguely like those photos you have posted 2) reacts at around 1000deg C. I await your evidence. Edited by tharg, May 20 2008, 03:41 AM.
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| hamba | May 19 2008, 01:39 PM Post #210 |
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Perhaps the Thermite argument should be analysed from a logical progression point? If thermite was used for the demolition, a few critical issues need to be examined. 1) Where in the structure would the thermite charges need to be placed to allow for the demolition of the building in the manner observed (i.e. which structural memebers, which floors etc) 2) How large would a thermite charge have to be, to be able to cut through the identified memebers? 3) How were these charges placed at the identified stratgic points? 4) How long would it take to rig the building? These questions will develope a logical premisis under which we can examine the thermite issue. Answering question one and two will enable us to calculate the total number of charges required, hence the amount of thermite required (and related items such as detonation chord, size of the charge etc) . With this value one can measure expected results versus observed. One can also visualise the practicality of the placement of the charges (i.e. if it is determined each charge would have to be 5 tons well then we can obviously see that this scenario is impossible). Answering questions 3 and 4 will enable us to evaluate the practicality of how the building was rigged. If certain aspects can be ruled out or confirmed we could provide a scenario under which the rigging of the building can be examined. Perhaps this approach should be examined, since it is the logical first step in the great thermite debate. At present the debate seems to see saw alot. If through a logical examination of the practicalities of rigging the 3 WTC buildings can be confirmed then the debate can continue on to examining alleged evidence of thermite. If it is deemed completely impractical through any one step to have rigged the building with thermite, then surely the thermite debate can be ended for once and all? Edited by hamba, May 19 2008, 01:44 PM.
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| Miragememories | May 19 2008, 03:28 PM Post #211 |
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Just one column, rapidly removed, hamba. That's all that believers of the Official Story require to explain the observed collapse of WTC 7. MM Edited by Miragememories, May 19 2008, 03:29 PM.
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| Headspin | May 30 2008, 04:46 AM Post #212 |
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new evidence and pictures, ironworker to fireman - "He said access to the garages was extremely restricted. I asked him if he saw any molten metal, he told me there were pools of molten metal under the pile and in the basements. He even said that there were spots that water had pooled up and was just bubbling like a pot of boiling water with molten metal underneath, like in the Nat/Geo movies of underwater volcanic lava flows.” if not thermite, what reacts under water and looks like "underwater volcanic lava flows" http://www.911blogger.com/node/15847 |
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| Headspin | Apr 3 2009, 08:28 PM Post #213 |
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"Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM click the green download button to view full paper. edit - fxed link. Edited by Headspin, Apr 12 2009, 08:55 AM.
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| Miragememories | Apr 4 2009, 06:57 AM Post #214 |
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I can't get that link to work. MM |
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| SPreston | Apr 4 2009, 07:27 AM Post #215 |
Patriotic American
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Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe The Open Chemical Physics Journal More Evidence for Energetic Materials |
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| Miragememories | Apr 4 2009, 07:59 AM Post #216 |
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Thanks for the links. More nails in the coffin of the Official Story. MM |
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| mynameis | Apr 5 2009, 01:42 AM Post #217 |
Internet Jujitsu
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I read the paper. I thought it was fair. I think that the weakness is not letting another independent blind test go forward at an independent lab. I think that needs to happen next. |
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| SPreston | Apr 5 2009, 10:52 AM Post #218 |
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Patriotic American
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Re: "Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe" The largest daily newspaper in Denmark had a special headline. Translation: "CONSPIRACY THEORIES ABOUT 9/11 ARE GETTING NEW LIFE. A new analysis render it likely that explosives were present in WTC on 9/11."
Hopefully they will soon translate the 9-11 article for this edition Politiken.dk in English Google Translated version Edited by SPreston, Apr 5 2009, 11:19 AM.
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| Headspin | Apr 12 2009, 08:45 AM Post #219 |
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independent confirmation of the paper Active Thermitic Material Discovered in Dust from the 9/11 World Trade Center Catastrophe (Niels Harrit, Farrer, Jones and Ryan et al.) http://darksideofgravity.com/marseille.pdf babelfish translation of first page and conclusions: In order to give more weight to discovered of Steven Jones and his collaborators in particular the presence of nanothermite n' not having reacted in the dust of the WTC, it mattered that those are independently corroborated by independent analyses. Microphotographies and spectra presented here made it possible to find some of the important characteristics which strongly suggest the presence of thermite nanocomposite. Origin and description of the samples: http://www.darksideofgravity.com/11%20Septembre%202001.html#sample These are the crucial tests that I n' did not have the d' means; to carry out calorimetry with l' in particular; ignition of the red chips and l' use of solvents to insulate and identify the various components of the mixture thermitic which bring final demonstration of its nature: http://www.darksideofgravity.com/11%20Septembre%202001.html#publi Conclusion of marseillaise analysis ● - Presence of microsphères confirmed ● - Microstructures of surface: S1 sleeps flocculent, S2 surfaces clean and naked: scales and undulations ● - S1 & S2: Microsphères primarily out of Iron and oxidized Iron, signature Iron-Aluminum clear in some, not very significant in the majority (l' Aluminum is expelled by a thermite reaction). ● - S2: Series of lines Fe, Ni, Zn, Mg, Al enigmatic. Ni is a very rare element in dust (USGS) ● - S1: A pure Iron microsphère i.e not oxidized. Peak of Iron with low energy absent! : écrantage by a gas surface layer (light elements not detected by the spectro) taken in the flakes and absorbing X basic energy (?) Conclusion of marseillaise analysis ● Presence of red chips and constituents of the layers about confirmed: agreement with detailed of S Jones and collaborator results ● red Layer: Fe, O, Al, Si, C ● Iron Oxide dominates largely over Iron: color bright red rather than rust! Insulating layer (brilliant with the spectro) ==> homogeneous mixture of l' iron oxide with nonconducting elements Al, Si. Low variability (aspect, color, spectrum) ==> homogeneous mixture on a scale lower than the micron. ● conducting gray Layer: Fe, O sometimes mn traces and Cr. ● Compatible with structural steel. Color sinks: Little oxidized iron. ● very clear Frontière enters the layers ==> not by chance! |
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| Headspin | Apr 12 2009, 09:31 AM Post #220 |
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No! High Temperature Reaction of Iron with Sulfur Dioxide, 1989 http://www.journalarchive.jst.go.jp/jnlpdf.php?cdjournal=bcsj1926&cdvol=62&noissue=3&startpage=653&lang=en&from=jnlabstract shows that any sulfidation from sulfur dixoide gas will quickly be covered by iron oxide which inhibits further sulfidation - it creates a protective layer which protects from further sulfidation. Fig 4 shows sulfidation from sulfur dioxide gas arrests fairly quickly (under 1 hour at 1000K temperature) sulfidation into the steel is shown to cease at the 100-200 micron level depth (a fraction of a milimeter into the steel, which amounts to a surface effect only) clearly invalidating any hypothesis that sulfur dioxide can cause holes in steel beams. Edited by Headspin, Apr 12 2009, 09:34 AM.
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| shevy19 | Jul 26 2009, 01:31 AM Post #221 |
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did anybody now that thermite "is not explosive, but can create short bursts of extremely high temperatures focused on a very small area for a short period of time." and "Thermite reactions have many uses. Thermite is not an explosive but instead operates by exposing a very small area of metal to extremely high temperatures. Intense heat focused on a small spot can be used to cut through metal or weld metal components together by melting a very thin film where the components meet." So a lot of thermite would be needed in the Trade towers to cut the metal. Why wouldn't the government if they were setting explosives use an explosive instead of thermite. Too much would be needed so it would have been very obvious. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermite |
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| TDX | Jul 26 2009, 02:21 AM Post #222 |
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no, jackass explosives are not that silent |
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| shevy19 | Jul 26 2009, 02:46 AM Post #223 |
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what are you talking about thermite isn't an explosive so it wouldn't make a loud noise. Read up on your facts idiot |
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| Lin Kuei | Jul 26 2009, 02:53 AM Post #224 |
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7 days suspension. Read the rules of this forum on your time off please. http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/43154/ [edit] TDX you also get 7 days. Edited by Lin Kuei, Jul 26 2009, 02:58 AM.
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| Lin Kuei | Jul 26 2009, 03:02 AM Post #225 |
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Energetic nano-composite thermite, which has actually been verified in the dust of the twin towers, has different properties to conventional thermite. Read the peer-reviewed paper here: http://www.bentham-open.org/pages/content.php?TOCPJ/2009/00000002/00000001/7TOCPJ.SGM |
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