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| 'Steel weakened by fire to the point of collapse'; Oh really? | |
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| Topic Started: Apr 23 2008, 05:41 PM (965 Views) | |
| Miragememories | Apr 25 2008, 09:49 AM Post #26 |
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Please don't quote me in your replies when you have no intention of replying to the quote. If framing a proper response is too challenging for you in this forum, then I suggest you stop replying until you have a better grasp of the process. I've also noticed that you completely abandon your arguments when offered a good rebuttal. Instead you keep trolling until a member responds with something you feel is vulnerable to your style of attack. To me, this only illustrates your complete lack of sincerity, as well as your total unwillingness to concede the weaknesses in your positions. Your partial argument, which I quoted above, is meaningless the way you present it. "gradually"? One could say all buildings are gradually collapsing, albeit at an extremely slow rate. Unattended, buildings over time will eventually decay and gravity collapse. It's really a meaningless term when you provide no terms of reference. gradually = progressing slowly Depending on how gradually the dynamic load is increased, both towers could have easily sustained the weight of all the floors above the impact zone. And what is "dropped suddenly"? Another unclear term. A controlled demolition certainly creates a "sudden drop". Heat weakened support columns tend to gradually succumb to vertical loads unless impacted by some additional dynamic force which rapidly overcomes them. If you rule out controlled demolition RKOwens4, as you evidently do, where does this sudden overwhelming force come from? WTC1 had various fire activity for 102 minutes when it suddenly went from stable to a high speed collapse. WTC2 had various fire activity for only 56 minutes when it suddenly went from stable to a high speed collapse. WTC7 had various fire activity for approximately 7 hours when it suddenly went from stable to a high speed collapse. MM Edited by Miragememories, Apr 25 2008, 03:01 PM.
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| SPreston | Apr 25 2008, 12:10 PM Post #27 |
Patriotic American
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Yep, there is one of the initial survivors waving for help from WTC1. The stripped off insulation must have prevented the steel from getting too hot and melting the lady. Too bad she and so many other innocents were murdered by the Bush Regime 9-11 perpetrators.   
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| JFK | Apr 25 2008, 12:29 PM Post #28 |
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| noeffects | Apr 25 2008, 05:44 PM Post #29 |
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I still think that is the craziest picture..I mean..how did shown person end up getting there? It was too hot above(maybe). If you were below the impact, you wouldn't walk from lower floors into the impact zone. Minus a concussion or TBI.. Does anyone know the name of shown person? Which floor they worked, and what office space. Not really important. just thinkin' |
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| SPreston | Apr 25 2008, 10:10 PM Post #30 |
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Patriotic American
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Edna Cintron waving for help
Video http://cleveland.indymedia.org/uploads/2007/01/woman-in-impact-2.avi
In this photo the lady is at the 95th floor. Since Marsh & McLennan controlled floors 93-100 and assuming this is her, she could have moved up or down. Cannot find her name listed in the memorial here
Edited by SPreston, Apr 25 2008, 10:39 PM.
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| JFK | Apr 25 2008, 11:21 PM Post #31 |
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Yeah, if you can find the hi rez straight on photo there is a fat balding guy who looks like he is cleaning out his desk above and to Edna's right. ( left, looking at the photo ) I know I have it in my archives somewhere, but I'm not looking for it. |
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| SPreston | Apr 26 2008, 07:13 AM Post #32 |
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Patriotic American
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Apparently Edna Cintron, because she dared to stand there in the open 950 feet above the ground, bravely waving to the cameras and the world, and proving the LIE to the 9-11 perpetrator 1000 degree heated steel fantasy in WTC 1, has been denied a dignified death and proper memorial to her place in history by the totally corrupt Bush Regime. Yes indeed it was they who planned and carried out this 9-11 INSIDE JOB Attack on America. Thousand degree steel did not bring down the WTC Towers, but demolition explosives and cowardly TRAITORS within the Bush Regime and their agents of treachery. It was not fires and aircraft which brought the Towers down. Their agents of disinformation and yes men and defenders of treason flood our forums with their lies and denials and endless BS. But TRUTH will eventually win out and GOD willing these scum will meet their just ends at the hands of an angry citizenry. Be wary ye agents of the Bush Regime and never allow thy real identities be known lest ye too be gathered with the wicked and burned in the fire which burns for ever and ever.  Edna Waving from NIST Reports.... Time is passing. Edna is moving around. Smoke is moving around. Flames are dying out. Shadows shift and change cos that's what shadows do... Three photographers, diffent times, different perspectives, different enlargements, different color balance, SAME Edna.    http://thewebfairy.com/911/edna/fireball.htm |
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| SPreston | Apr 26 2008, 08:12 AM Post #33 |
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Patriotic American
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Just the normal bizarre nonsense which the Bush Regime defenders usually BS us with. It is unlikely that they ever proofread their own gibberish.
There is the plane impact point right there and where is the red glowing steel which is weakening by 50% at 1100 degrees? Why is that lady just standing there waving and not jumping up and down because her shoes are too hot? If the steel was even 160 degrees F, she would not be leaning on it and touching it with her bare hands. She does not appear to be wearing an asbestos suit and gloves. Could 1100 degree steel have cooled that quickly in just a few minutes? All of that steel is tied together with welds and bolts, so the heat transfer by conduction ( here ) would be tremendous. Steel temperatures of 1100 degrees would quickly transfer from a few floors above or below or from the nearby core structure. Obviously there is no nearby 1100 degree steel because the lady is touching the steel. How come her hair and clothing are not smoldering? Is it because your precious NIST Report is a pack of lies?
Edited by SPreston, Apr 26 2008, 08:29 AM.
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| Headspin | Apr 28 2008, 06:24 AM Post #34 |
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farenheit: centigrade: http://www.threeplanes.net/toolsteel.html |
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| Headspin | Apr 28 2008, 07:00 AM Post #35 |
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RKOwens = RobinKOwens ?? http://tinyurl.com/acdzf http://tinyurl.com/5mozqh |
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| honestjoe | May 2 2008, 01:11 AM Post #36 |
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NOT REALLY IMPORTANT!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!??!?!?! Well please think about this and pass it on: Not only does the video testimony of the photos posted above of our dear departed fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, friends, coworkers, neighbors AND FELLOW AMERICANS whom have given us their indisputable testimony frozen in horrifying images which SCREAMS OUT "fraud" to NIST, but so does the VERBAL testimony from the survivors FROM THE FLOORS ABOVE which most absolutely and unequivocally do not agree at all with NIST on the temperatures of the fires on those floors "ABOVE" as well! Brian Clark was on the 84th floor of the South tower. http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2001/worldtradecentertrans.shtml After searching all around the 84th floor he went down from the 84th floor to the 81st floor, where he met some people ascending from the 80th floor. http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/wtc/above.html He did not see a roaring inferno on the 81st floor that NIST claims and neither did Stanley Praimnath who was on the 81st floor of the south tower. http://web.archive.org/web/20011006142844/http://www.truthorfiction.com/rumors/survivor1.htm Maybe the fires are biased and only burn according to reality as defined by the laws of physics and "NOT" NIST absurd imagination. But just to be sure lets examine where these survivors were a little more closely. The location of stairway A is on the north side of the South Tower. The special thing is that the stairways transferred in the 76th floor, so from floor 77-81 the stairways of A and B were located outside the core, and were transferred back to the inner core on the 82nd floor, up to the 95th floor. So these guys were in the exact arrears that NIST says were the highest of their absurdly high temperatures between 800C to 1000C! From their statements we could estimate that Clark was about 10-15 minutes after the impact on floor 81 (and not to forget that Ron DiFrancesco went up to the 91st floor and about 10 minutes after Clark and Praimnath descended from there). So we can take the 15 minute figure as reference from the NIST simulation figures, (black box stairway A location) 800 degree Celsiuses, seems a little too hot for surviving and it gets worse on 82nd and according to NIST it will still cook the flash off you within seconds on the 83rd. One might argue that this is only the case in NIST worst-case scenario (D), because in case C, the 81st floor looks like there is one cool spot of only 250C which would take much longer to fully cook all of your flesh off, say 15 minutes. But this wouldn’t fit either, when we look at the 80th and 82nd floor of NIST case C where you find the only cool spot to be at least 650C on the 80th and 800c on the 82nd which surly would even cook off a significant portion of the most thick skinned stubborn debunker flesh, no mater how far their head remained shoved up their ass in an attempt to remain insulated from the intense reality around them. Note; that the survivors left the stairway and checked every floor for survivors. according to the NIST-figures they had to walk through temperatures of several hundred degrees Celsius and lets not forget that on the 82nd floor the stairways were transferred to the inner core, expanding the area they had to walk through to in order to reach them. Also the walls were cracked and blown, so the stairways weren’t confined and separated areas anymore which means they were still exposed to the magically high temperatures imagined by NIST (as no physical tests support their absurd claims). Remember that Ron DiFrancesco descended later, between 15- and 30 minutes, when situation became worse! They could never descend through stairway A from 84th to 79th floor, stop on every floor to look for people, grab someone out from floor 81, experience no high temperatures and see only small lingering flames if the NIST estimations (Case C and D) were anywhere near reality. But then again, let’s not forget what NIST’s figures are: simulations! Not developed to imitate reality as near as possible, but to back up a conclusion already made before the investigations even began: fires brought down the towers. The roaring infernos burned so hot you could walk through them!! If you want we can go down stairs to were we can actualy see the fires are at such as those seen by Chief Oreo Palmer who was on the 78th floor and who saw only “two isolated pockets of fire” that would take 1, maybe 2 lines to put it out. |
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| SPreston | May 2 2008, 08:41 AM Post #37 |
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Patriotic American
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Great post. Yes these people posed in NIST's own photographic evidence give the lie to NIST's own predetermined conclusions with their last living visual testimony. The survivors who had to pass through that same area, and thank GOD they all made it down, also prove beyond any doubt that the NIST Report cannot be the TRUTH. Look at the clothing of brave Edna Cintron. Her white jeans appear to be unsinged by the raging inferno NIST claims she is encountering. The bare metal she is touching is not even hot. Edna doesn't even appear to be burned. To protect their lies, NIST and their Mainstream Media shills even went so far as to deny Edna's very existence. Shameful. You traitor's have no conscious whatsoever. But too bad NIST and you other mamzers; Edna is still there in three separate videos and numerous NIST developed frames. It is very doubtful that any of these people actually jumped to their deaths. They preferred to live likely hoping that rescue was on the way in some form or other. And it was, with many brave firemen and rescuers trapped and killed in the destruction. It is much more likely that they were blown from their precarious perches by the early demolition charges which increased in intensity to explosively bring the towers down in a top-down demolition. Those "dear departed fathers, mothers, sisters, brothers, friends, coworkers, neighbors AND FELLOW AMERICANS " were murdered by the cowards and traitors who planned and carried out the 9-11 INSIDE JOB Attack on America. http://thewebfairy.com/911/edna/fireball.htm Edna Waving from NIST Reports.... Time is passing. Edna is moving around. Smoke is moving around. Flames are dying out. Shadows shift and change cos that's what shadows do... Three photographers, diffent times, different perspectives, different enlargements, different color balance, SAME Edna.
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| SPreston | Jun 24 2008, 06:16 AM Post #38 |
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Patriotic American
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Proving the NIST Report a lie - Edna Cintron waving for help where the steel is supposed to be 1000s of degrees Hot enough to melt steel? Edna Cintron doesn't think so. |
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| JackD | Jun 24 2008, 03:45 PM Post #39 |
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Edna Cintron, Rest in Peace. You and Fire Chief Orio Palmer (tower 2) have shown, in gestures and words, that the fires were not too hot to withstand. Sustained air temperatures of 800-1200F, to "weaken" the steel, would need be present for a long time. Yet you, Edna, stood there at the brink, waving, telling us that you and others were still alive and well, and in need of rescue. I find it very telling that the 'building collapse due to heat, fire' adherents never, ever, run the audio tape of Chief Palmer, nor show Edna waving.... why is that? |
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| Miragememories | Jun 25 2008, 07:19 AM Post #40 |
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I N C R E D U L I T Y and D E N I A L. Until their minds can accept the possibility that the Official Story is a lie, don't expect much open-minded discussion from these so-called skeptics. Whenever a case for doubting the Official Story is made quite strongly, their incredulity appears to prevent them from any form of agreement. Many, very patriotic people appear to be living in a state of denial because they can't cope with the alternative. MM |
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8:47 AM Nov 28
