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| no flu shot?; you're fired | |
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| Topic Started: Sep 14 2009, 05:40 PM (1,926 Views) | |
| mid life rethinker | Sep 14 2009, 05:40 PM Post #1 |
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It's official at my hospital. If I do not get the seasonal flu vaccine I will be terminated from employment. We have until 10/31 to be shot or be canned. I think theyt are easing us into doing the same thing with the H1N1. i gotta start collecting data on H1N1 and call ACLU lawyer. I don't want it - but I'm a 20 year employee and love my job. This sucks. |
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| Citizen Pawn | Sep 14 2009, 05:58 PM Post #2 |
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Lose all your money and have no food during a recession (depression) and no roof over your head VS. Get shots filled with God knows what crap, become one of the Borg, possibly get violently ill, but keep your job and be a 'cooperative citizen' I love how they make it so easy. |
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| alexvegas | Sep 15 2009, 07:40 AM Post #3 |
alex25smash
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Can you get the vaccine analysed somehow before agreeing to it? Seems fair to see what they're pumping into you if your job depends on it. |
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| noeffects | Sep 15 2009, 07:57 AM Post #4 |
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develop an egg allergy asap... get pregnant stat... are you sure you don't have Guillain-Barré Syndrome for some reason ? |
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| tower | Sep 15 2009, 09:04 AM Post #5 |
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I understand that you don't want your seasonal vaccination, but why? I seem to have missed some gigantic news, or so it seems, concerning vaccine safety. |
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| Gideon524 | Sep 15 2009, 01:12 PM Post #6 |
Oh, you didn't know?
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I love living in a free country. |
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| Domenick DiMaggio | Sep 15 2009, 03:26 PM Post #7 |
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i dont work at a hospital but someplace a lot worse.....one of the pharma giants. anyways when it comes time for the government shot i have a choose between losing my job and getting myself and my family vaccinated in order to keep it. i dont expect to be employed by the end of the year. i cross bridges as they come........... Edited by Domenick DiMaggio, Sep 15 2009, 03:26 PM.
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| mid life rethinker | Sep 15 2009, 05:07 PM Post #8 |
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Well, I'm one of those rare people who just feel crappy all winter if they get the shot. I may not get the flu but somehow my immune system gets so stressed that i catch everything else. I've tracked this for years and years and it's not a fluke how i react. Only one year that i did not get the shot did i get threal flu - and yes it was really horrible. I did get my tonsils out recently in my mid forties- chronically infected - so perhaps i will fare better with the flu shot now. But the main point is, i think it is tragic to be put in this situation. Direct caregivers are threatened with job loss - while the ceo and cno get a choice at the hospital. In this country we should not be mandated to put something in our bodies if we do not want it. |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Sep 16 2009, 03:42 AM Post #9 |
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I met someone a few weeks ago that had been disfigured and almost died from the H1N1 vaccine back in the 1970's. It looked like he had a stroke and he told me that he had almost died from the shot. He got a settlement too putting six figures in disfigurement, all caused by a simple innoculation. The vaccine actually killed more people than the virus. People are convinced that Vaccines may cause Autism and the medical profession says that is a Strawman argument against vaccination. I would say this is like finding a Haystack in the Needle! The public is reassured now by a slightly different straw man who stuffed their scrubs with straw, as if the very Scarecrow themselves inject fear yet simultaneously state that there is nothing to fear. I personally would rather err on the side of caution. I think if I were in your situation I would not get the shot and say you already had the shot. Not sure if they require proof of some sort. I would take unemployment before I was forced to do something I didn't want to do by an employer. |
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| tower | Sep 16 2009, 08:47 AM Post #10 |
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I understand and agree in principle, however, try to look at it from the hospital's site - you, as an employee, are a potentially perfect carrier of all sorts of flukes, since you're pretty much forced to have contact with them during your normal work day. It's safer and easier to have the staff vaccinated then to have an entire hospital treated for flu. I personally would find it irresponsible for a hospital not to make sure that patients can expect proper sanitary conditions.
People are convinced that vaccines may cause autism because once they hear a sensationalist news story about it, they don't bother to check the results of thorough tests that show vaccines don't cause autism. And it's not a strawman argument, by the way.
I'm not really sure what you're trying to say here.
As far as I know, most jobs consist of doing something you don't really want to, because you want to actually make money. The people who truly enjoy their jobs are a minority. |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Sep 16 2009, 11:40 PM Post #11 |
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Strawman that they are told by the establishment or doctors "Get Vaccinated it will keep you healthy". Paranoid Public "Vaccinations have Mercury, Anti-Freeze, and have killed people during the 1970's, how can you still call them healthy". Doctor says "Who said Vaccines are harmful, Vaccines are safe and everyone is now required to get one". Sounds like a strawman to me if the Doctor inserts his logic into someone elses concern that has validity. If doctors stuff straw in their Scrubs they are the new Strawman, Scarecrows are stuffed with straw in order to make you think someone is watching over the fields or watching out for you. But there is no one really there for you, it is just a dummy sitting there waving when the wind blows. Sorry I may not have worded correctly but here is some more info for you. My friend works as a Lab Tech and a instructor friend of his caught Swine Flu and died. He was exposed to it in a hospital for sure. Like I said before in the 1970's H1N1 vaccine killed more people than the virus. That is a fact. So to say Vaccines are beneficial depends on if you survive your vaccination! In my personal experience I usually got sick every other year real bad. I found that Chiropractic actually helps regenerate your immune system and nerve endings every 120 days. I went for 8 years and was never sick the entire time, even when my roomate was ill for 2 months with the worst flu I had ever seen. My immune system was better because of Chiropractic and I went 3 days a week for the entire 8 years and never missed an appointment. As soon as I stopped going for 1 year I got sick again so it makes sense to me that something in chiropractic was helping my immune system. Not saying it would protect me from H1N1 but I think I would rather take my chances than inject possible disfigurement. |
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| tower | Sep 17 2009, 02:29 PM Post #12 |
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I don't think you understand what a strawman argument is.
You don't understand what a strawman argument is.
And where did you take this fact from?
Assuming that the 25 people out of 40 million in 1970s died because they took the vaccine, which means a risk of 1 in 1600000 of dying, which means you're more likely to die from falling, slipping, tripping or stumbling on the same level.
You can't get objective findings from personal experiences.
There has yet to be a proof presented that chiropractice is any better at healing anything than a regular massage. (it certainly can be more harmful)
Sure, if you didn't actually do any double-blind trials or reduced the possible factors or introduced another test variable, your results can be astounding. And completely unscientific.
If you're willing to risk spine damage for no good reason, go for it. |
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| noeffects | Sep 17 2009, 04:08 PM Post #13 |
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read this a little while ago...if you need to go this direction...sounds like a lot of work. 
or I like this comment... lol
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| hiphopopotamus | Sep 17 2009, 07:59 PM Post #14 |
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If the folks who actually went to medical school have no problem taking the vaccine, you shouldn't either. Don't confuse your psychosomatic tendencies with actual science, you might wind up getting the flu and killing someone with an actual depressed immune system who is at your hospital for treatment. |
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| noeffects | Sep 17 2009, 08:05 PM Post #15 |
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You got proof that everyone that went to med school has no problem with it ..you don't and what you are saying is not true |
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| Domenick DiMaggio | Sep 18 2009, 03:37 AM Post #16 |
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tower, why did the us government quickly abandon vaccinating the american people in 1976? |
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| Q | Sep 18 2009, 07:26 AM Post #17 |
A Higher Evolution
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Vaccinations may prevent you from "contracting" the virus, but they certainly don't stop you from carrying it. I can't find the reference right now, but the H1N1 vaccine was patented BEFORE the outbreak, and the manufacturers/inventors/whatever are on record as refusing to take their own vaccine! |
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| mid life rethinker | Sep 18 2009, 07:55 AM Post #18 |
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I have a graduate degree so I'm not lacking in education. 3-4 strep infections a year for 7 years have not been psychosomatic. Interestingly, the doctors who refuse the vaccine only get suspended, but the nurses who refuse get terminated. Perhaps you're right, I should have gone to med school! I've been in healthcare reallly really long and believe me I've been made sick by many sick kids (sneezing full in my face as I hold them for a spinal tap, vomiting on me, every freaking viral thing out there..and fungal skin infections as well.) I am way more at risk from the patients than the patients are by me, who knows how to wash her hands and manage secretions. I've washed my hands so long so well that I am losing my fingerprints. (Had to get fingerprinted for grad school last year and they were shocked at the fingerprint place. )NOT TO MENTION that i have been giving chemo and radiactive treatments for YEARS, and my hospital does not support the full OSHA guidelines for protectice equipment as it would be "scary to the kids and not practical" i.e we'd need full hazmat suit changed in between kids as I give chemo ALL DAY LONG. So, until you have been in my career as long as I have, don't you dare tell me I have psychosomatic tendencies. I have had more exposures including an HIV patient needle stick when the kid had a seizure as I was placing an IV and her body jerked and I got stuck with a dirty needle. I've given the best years of my life and my health to that hospital. I've accepted the exposure risks so far. I love the children and families I care for- it's a calling . All I want is to not be threatened with termination and to make my own damn decision. Your post is very disrespectful. Edited by mid life rethinker, Sep 18 2009, 08:05 AM.
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| Q | Sep 18 2009, 08:04 AM Post #19 |
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A Higher Evolution
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Are you serious? I am a proponent of Chriopractic, but having an adjustment 3 times a week on a regular basis risks severe hyper-mobility - like a hinge without a pin. Any Chiropractor who would see you on that often a basis for anything less than a highly acute problem is being grossly irresponsible to his profession. I was born with fusion of the vertebrae in the upper neck to the skull, which was only discovered when I was 25, after C2/3 gave up compensating for everything else and just went sideways in protest. It took about five years of adjustments to get it to re-stabilize, but getting the muscles to keep it in place is equally important. It now usually only needs to be adjusted annually. |
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| mid life rethinker | Sep 18 2009, 08:11 AM Post #20 |
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Right. The virus can live 6 hours or so on surfaces. Staff are supposed to wear full mask, gown, glove in the rooms, but parents of the kids can roam freely all over the place and spread the germs in the cafeteria, elevator buttons, etc. |
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| tower | Sep 18 2009, 12:58 PM Post #21 |
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How they're supposed to work, the author will never tell us, of course.
You don't seem to understand that vaccines are an estabilished way of considerably decreasing one's chances of falling ill. This is not a matter of opinion, this has been proven in clinical trials. Any doctor that would disagree either has done some groundbreaking research or simply doesn't know what he's talking about.
Because the much overhyped pandemic never came and the budget was being wasted.
How can you carry a virus without contracting it?
If you can't prove it, don't say it.
Nurses have much more contact with the patients and their fluids on a day-to-day basis.
Not really. Since patients who are visibly ill and can be carriers of easily contracted diseases are isolated and you as part of the staff have the access to them, you're much better at carrying diseases.
Argument from authority.
If you love them, then show that by caring about their possible health risks - vaccination will decrease your risk of carrying a disease that can be fatal.
There are parts of hospitals purposefully isolated from most people's reach and patients can be - as I'm sure you know - placed there if there's a high risk of contracting an airborne disease for example. And viruses are not alive. Edited by tower, Sep 18 2009, 12:59 PM.
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| mid life rethinker | Sep 18 2009, 01:46 PM Post #22 |
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Dude, let me fill ya in on a few real life things. Yes, I know that there are hepa filter and negative and positive pressure rooms for isolating patients. However, parents have 24/7 visitation rights, regardless of kids isolation status and are free to roam the hospital, touching any and all fomites before returning to said isolation. So while we jump through any and all hoops to try and contain things, you can see it is ultimately futile as you can't keep a parent from a kid, at least in my institution, and you can't keep them captive either. Really viruses aren't live? Then why can't i give "live" vaccines to transplant patients for viral illnesses? Gotta check that out. One of us is wrong. Also, lets clear up another thing. The doctors in my institution have alot of hands on care to our patients and families. Everyday. 24/7 It's a teaching institution and they are around patients alot. Can't overstate this enough" ALOT. Also, the hospital policy is that any VP, CEO type person can be called to the bedside if a parent has an issue, so seems to me they should be under the same threat of termination as the nurses and lab personell and housekeepers and radiology staff etc etc if they refuse the vaccine. |
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| hiphopopotamus | Sep 18 2009, 05:28 PM Post #23 |
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A graduate degree? Welcome to the club. You work in a hospital where people go to get fixed. If you put your beliefs above the patient's interests, the hospital should have the right to prevent you from possibly harming them. |
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| Lin Kuei | Sep 18 2009, 05:47 PM Post #24 |
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Many professionals in the healthcare sector have valid concerns over the safety of vaccines, such as the
In my country there was a female General Practitioner on TV not long ago who, although pro-choice and not anti-vaccine, had not administered a vaccine in 18 years of her own practice, because she said she "does not provide risky medical interventions to her patients". Before anyone spouts the rhetoric about what could of happened if vaccines didn't do "some good" and save us from all those nasty diseases in history, which somehow outweighs the negative - don't forget what the actual evidence shows in regard to whether the introduction of vaccines really saved society. |
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| mid life rethinker | Sep 18 2009, 06:26 PM Post #25 |
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Oh please. I got the flu shot. I am arguing about the right to mandate it. Again you are so disrespectful . Should the hospital have the right to mandate with threat of termination to just some but not all workers with contact with patients? I don't believe so. I have saved more lives in my career than you can possible quantify. You really don't know what you are talking about and I'm giving up on you. I'm interested in knowing what you do for a living. Edited by mid life rethinker, Sep 18 2009, 06:43 PM.
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