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Go Joe!; Pointing Out Liars
Topic Started: Sep 10 2009, 03:09 AM (1,595 Views)
AR10
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I support Joe Wilson Republican of SC.

How many of us would take our political futures and toss our shoe at the leader in a protest of this magnitude?

His number in Washington is 202-225-2452

Like him or not for taking the action he did, I know I often talk to the TV when B Hussein O is on it.

I think what he did took a lot of courage and I support his freedom of speech rights.
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Flippy

The guy just cost himself his senate seat in 2010.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/index.html

Quote:
 
Wilson's likely 2010 Democratic challenger, Rob Miller, has raised more than $200,000 from 5,000 donors since Wednesday night, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee said.


You're right though. Thank god for freedom of speech. Even if you use it to show that you're a complete moron with no respect for the office of the President.

Not to mention, HE IS THE ONE THAT LIED! There is NO order in the house bill (the only one that has been completed) for health care for illegals.

AR10 - You are sure quick to jump to conclusions without researching.
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bretwalda

I'd put moron in the category of anyone thinking federal funded healthcare isn't anything but a handout to corporate whores.

And as far as respect - what ever happened to respecting the Rule of Law?

Kudos to Wilson for inaugurating the parliamentary custom of displaying ill will - long overdue. Fake and flakey platitudes is for sellouts.

Flippy - you sure are quick to jump to conclusions without researching:

The House Bill HR3200 in NO WAY excludes illegals.

Congressional Research Service:
"H.R. 3200 does not contain any restrictions on noncitzens—whether legally or illegally present, or in the United States temporarily or permanently—participating in the Exchange."
Edited by bretwalda, Sep 10 2009, 10:31 PM.
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AR10
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Flippy
Sep 10 2009, 03:08 PM
The guy just cost himself his senate seat in 2010.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/09/10/obama.heckled.speech/index.html

Quote:
 
Wilson's likely 2010 Democratic challenger, Rob Miller, has raised more than $200,000 from 5,000 donors since Wednesday night, the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee said.


You're right though. Thank god for freedom of speech. Even if you use it to show that you're a complete moron with no respect for the office of the President.

Not to mention, HE IS THE ONE THAT LIED! There is NO order in the house bill (the only one that has been completed) for health care for illegals.

AR10 - You are sure quick to jump to conclusions without researching.
I did not come here to attack another member, nor do I want attacked by the likes of you.

The "complete moron" comment was completely out of line. If I gave a rats ass, I would hit the complaint button, but I do not have the time for name calling or wining to the moderators, what I do have the time for is telling you to your face that was uncalled for and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Joe is running for attorney general of his state, not his current seat as posted on his government web site, as I understand it. If you know something more about this please share with the group. If it in fact turns out you were wrong and your statement to me was incorrect, how about you acknowledge that fact here and now.


If you listen closely to the replay, Joe was not the only voice in the room. In fact when the music stopped, he was the one left without a chair to sit on. His voice was the last voice, not the only voice, nor the loudest voice.

Replay the last Bush address to the joint Congress. It was just as full of condescending voices I am told.

I come here to find solutions, not be bullied by people with a #8 membership badge stuck to their chest like they were some forum god.


Lead, follow, or get out of the way, but do not plant your feet in front of me as I will not be stopped addressing the truth.

Joe is a patriot, and those voices will never be scilenced. Joe has pointed out on many talk shows, the bill leaves open many doors for IAs to get free health care just the way they are getting it now. So under the new health care plan, this is not being fixed.
Edited by AR10, Sep 11 2009, 03:09 PM.
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noeffects
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Flippy
 
You're right though. Thank god for freedom of speech. Even if you use it to show that you're a complete moron with no respect for the office of the President.


...it = freedom of speech

...you're = Joe Wilson...not AR10

if Flippy was referring to you he would of laid into you a lot harder than that... ;)

Flippy can correct me if I'm wrong here... :cheers:
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Flippy

noeffects is correct. I was not attacking you AR10. I was simply stating for fact what actually happened. As I've done in every post that I've responded to of yours. In this particular post I also added my feelings on the ill effects and complete disrespect for the office of the President that was shown. Regardless of who it is. All of us here love this country. The office of the President should be treated with respect.

I also have a bad habit of misstating things and when I am corrected I now appreciate it very much. I can understand how you would not as I felt the same way when first starting to visit this board (actually the old one, but I moved here with them) however, the thing you need to understand is that it is very important to know the entire scope of a debate. Not just one side. For multiple reasons. Especially when dealing with 9/11 truth. These "skeptics" (a.k.a. sheep) will use your words against you at every chance.

This particular post you seemed to have the side of FOX news. For the record MSNBC, FOX news CNN, are all complacent in this terrible media we have. You simply cannot rely on a single one of their views, rather a conglomerate of them is needed to establish an opinion. To establish this you can look to the many many times that Bill O'rielly has stated "I watch these things, so you don't have to." as if you are not intelligent enough to establish your own opinion based on the facts. Or, to see Kieth Olbermann know as fact that the Mancow waterboarding was a hoax, yet report the story anyways, as pointed out to me by a member of CIT.

Lastly, I'm sorry if I offended you. It was not my intention.
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Flippy

bretwalda -

First, what does the rule of law have to do with common decency? Respect for the office of President?

That was very nice of you to quote the congressional research service. However, how about quoting the actual bill?

http://factcheck.org/2009/07/misleading-gop-health-care-claims/

Quote:
 
H.R. 3200: Sec 246 — NO FEDERAL PAYMENT FOR UNDOCUMENTED ALIENS

Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.


Oh, and edit to add:

Here is the actual bill!

http://www.opencongress.org/bill/111-h3200/text

Search for 246.

Are you ashamed of your lack of researching ability? Took me like 40 seconds on google.

Want to take your comments back?
Edited by Flippy, Sep 11 2009, 09:49 PM.
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bretwalda

Flippy

What does respect have to do with a constitution deconstructionist and a liar? If anyone is disrespecting the office of the President it is Barry Sotoro.


Quote:
 
Are you ashamed of your lack of researching ability? Took me like 40 seconds on google.

Want to take your comments back?


Uhhh, no. Because my research actually involves more than 40 seconds.

The exception proves the fact and point of the Congressional Research statement. Let's read Sec 246 a little more carefully (emphasis added):

Quote:
 
Nothing in this subtitle shall allow Federal payments for affordability credits on behalf of individuals who are not lawfully present in the United States.


Does this say that illegals will not be covered within the exchange provisions? No. It doesn't. It simply says a credit based on (income/COL?) will not be allotted to them within their participation in the program.

That is all the time I have to break it down for you...I am researching other things ;)





Edited by bretwalda, Sep 11 2009, 11:44 PM.
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Flippy

First off, I think your birth certificate stuff is laughable. 9/11 is still not solved and you think you're going to get anything accomplished with that mission? Good luck, I think you're wasting your resources.

Secondly, with the more than 40 seconds of research you do, I'm surprised you missed this part. After all, it is only about 15 lines below the part I quoted earlier.

Quote:
 
PART 2--SATISFACTION OF HEALTH COVERAGE PARTICIPATION REQUIREMENTS
Sec. 321. Satisfaction of health coverage participation requirements under the Employee Retirement Income Security Act of 1974.
Comments
Permalink
Sec. 322. Satisfaction of health coverage participation requirements under the Internal Revenue Code of 1986.


Now, of course you will say that illegals do not always have to participate in the Internal Revenue Code. Or the Employee Retirement Income Security Act. By doctoring their identities. Yeah, that happens. However, investigating identity theft is not part of the health care plan.

By those acts you are a taxed citizen via payroll income.

I could go into story after story about health care being totally screwed up. I could tell you about my own families problems and bankruptcies from health care. We could talk about the hundreds of 9/11 first responders that cannot work due to illness and have no health care. Right, bret? Right??? You've heard it before. I will not bother.

Next time you come with research, provide an actual document, instead of an editorial.
Edited by Flippy, Sep 12 2009, 12:10 AM.
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bretwalda

I should also add one more thing regarding the claptrap of 'respecting the office of the President' that is thick out there within the MSM.

People need to get off the interwebs once in a while and read the Federalist papers. The office of the President is the inferior branch of the government in the CONSTITUTIONAL realm of duties and power and all matters pertaining to his SERVICE. Joe's place as a member of the House is in no way subservient to the President's. He is SEPERATE and SOVEREIGN in his role.

We need to get that through our heads, if we're not already in a quasi dictatorship.
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bretwalda

Quote:
 
First off, I think your birth certificate stuff is laughable


??? What birth certificate 'stuff'? What 'mission'? Strange.

Re Sec 321 & 322 ...(patience, bretwalda, patience)

WTF does that have to do with the LIE that illegals will NOT receive benefits? Whether they pay taxes as an illegal resident in the USA or they falsify their identity (the likely scenario) how does this prove that the Big O is not a liar when he says they will not be recipients?

You make no sense dude. You're proving my point and not yours. :hmmm:

I see it is an emotional issue for you - that is your problem.

Where did I say healthcare wasn't screwed up? Is taking my family's money to solve your family's problem the answer? Is it 'the only way' to fix the problem? Who is financially fronting this solution to the mainstream? Have you looked at that? It might surprise you.

What in God's name does 9-11 FR's screwover have to do with universal healthcare?

Nothing.

First responders provided a service under the assurance that their well being was safeguarded. They were lied to and deserve compensation in the form of care for the injuries suffered and payment for the quality of life they were robbed of.

Dude, you're kinda of hothead with nothing but willy nilly tirades that make no sense. You should chill - have a smoke or something. In spite of what big brother says, I think they'd be good for you - no documents though ;)







Edited by bretwalda, Sep 12 2009, 12:53 AM.
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noeffects
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isn't it illegal for a health care worker (doctor,nurse,etc) to make you prove ID ?...I know of people that have walked in to the ER, got treated, no information given besides reason , no bill...

somehow they cannot refuse helping you...idk

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Flippy

noeffects
Sep 12 2009, 04:15 AM
isn't it illegal for a health care worker (doctor,nurse,etc) to make you prove ID ?...I know of people that have walked in to the ER, got treated, no information given besides reason , no bill...

somehow they cannot refuse helping you...idk

Every time you go to a new doctors office you are required to provide your ID card and your insurance card. They make a copy.

Edit to add: As far as the emergency room is concerned, you are asked for your ID if you are a walk in patient. If you taken there by ambulance they will try to clear up that information with your family. Regarding "no bill" that is not true. Unless you fake your identity at the emergency room you will be asked to pay for your treatment. I know this for fact as I myself have gone without health insurance and needed emergency treatment.

Lastly, as I was trying to state earlier. It is not the job of health care reform to fix the illegal alien problem. If you want to have an illegal alien debate let us please start another thread. The bill specifically states in more than one location that illegals will not receive coverage. If evidence of the contrary can be provided I will eat my words. However, editorials, like what bretwalda provided are not evidence. They are opinion.

Edited by Flippy, Sep 12 2009, 11:25 AM.
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Flippy

bretwalda I have no idea what you're even talking about anymore. I will lay out a detailed response to your whacky replies later.
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noeffects
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... B-)

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bretwalda

Quote:
 
The bill specifically states in more than one location that illegals will not receive coverage


Well you show us that Flippy and we'll be more than happy. Your strike one on your first try - simply deals with credits allotted, not participation. Your other 'proofs' only prove my point, not yours. (not to mention you seem to be making the obnoxious claim that if you pay taxes, your a citizen of the US) :blink:

Quote:
 
It is not the job of health care reform to fix the illegal alien problem.


It is not the job of government to provide healthcare, give you money for cars that get 1mpg better than the one you own, give you a 'stimulus' check, bailout banks, police the world, etc. It is the job of government to protect and maintain our borders and promulgate and enforce rules regarding citizenship. Article 1 Section 8 I believe.

Quote:
 
However, editorials,


You keep saying this Flippy. Might want to check into who pays for Congressional Research Service ;) Its not an editorial. It is not partisan. Like the Postal Service, it is a service - paid for by all taxpayers of the USA. :roll:

From your 1st claim:
Quote:
 
The guy just cost himself his senate seat in 2010.


I'm not a fan. Merely pointing out the lunacy and jump-to-conclusions tendency of your claims.

....

Some facts for you Flippy:

Posted Image
These signs and the org they represent - Soros funded.

Odd...their site is down or out, nonetheless I printed out their members page a while back, and their campaign continues (new ads just a day ago), over a quarter of a billion dollars pledged in the propaganda assault. Who's behind it? - you'll have to google the orgs listed:

Posted Image

As you will find in researching these, there isn't some eureka moment going on in DC where big fat government all of sudden has your best interest and wellbeing in mind. No, it is simply a power play by one sector of mega business (technology and services), going for the kill on their middleman (who have traditionally found friends with the equally corrupt republicans), and creating a guarantee for themselves on margins. There is no better business to be in than one where you have a promised rate of return codified in law by political sellouts.

Of course, in the end there will be 'compromise' which is nothing but bull to give the illusion to both sides that everyone is a winner (which is true for those that have a financial stake to gain in it), when in fact, we the people are losers.

We already have government healthcare. The majority of health plans are federally managed and/or regulated.The problem is that we don't have free market healthcare. I can prove this anytime by simply negotiating on a cash basis for services rendered, and paying less than half what 'insurance' would have paid for it...or more. Done it many a time :thumbs:

.......

Quote:
 
bretwalda I have no idea what you're even talking about anymore.


Not at all surprised.

Quote:
 
I will lay out a detailed response to your whacky replies later.


Can't promise that I will be able to convince myself that anything you have to say further will be worth my time reviewing. I'm just saying.





Edited by bretwalda, Sep 13 2009, 12:15 AM.
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Flippy

Once again you come back with crazy ramblings stating that I'm in the wrong. This debate is not about all of this other crap you keep trying to bring into it. Obama said "There is no health care for illegals" Wilson called him a liar. That is what this is about. I have shown you the actual bill. It says "There will be no health care for illegals."

As far as who pays for congressional research. Who cares. It is irrelevant. Their claim is that there is health care for illegals. Yet they don't outline any part of the bill that say this.

I will ask you one more time.

SHOW ME THE BILL THAT COVERS ILLEGAL ALIENS.

If you cannot, then you are wrong. The readers of this thread will agree.
Edited by Flippy, Sep 14 2009, 04:34 PM.
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Flippy

If Joe is so against giving health care to illegals. To the point of calling the President a liar. Then why did he vote to give them health care in 2003?

http://www.opencongress.org/articles/view/1219-Joe-Wilson-Voted-to-Provide-Taxpayer-Money-for-Illegal-Immigrants-Healthcare

Quote:
 
However, in 2003, Wilson voted to provide federal funds for illegal immigrants’ healthcare. The vote came on the Medicare Prescription Drug, Improvement and Modernization Act of 2003, which contained Sec. 1011 authorizing $250,000 annually between 2003 and 2008 for government reimbursements to hospitals who provide treatment for uninsured illegal immigrants. The program has been extended through 2009 and there is currently a bipartisan bill in Congress to make it permanent.
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Flippy

Quote:
 
not yours. (not to mention you seem to be making the obnoxious claim that if you pay taxes, your a citizen of the US)


bret, care to address the fact that if you pay income taxes you have filled out a W4 form; which includes your residence, social security number, and other pertinent information? That this form goes to the IRS and if you are not of legal employment it cannot be filed? Are you employed? If so, you have filed this form with the Federal Government.

Come on bret.... If you want to believe these claims of FOX news regarding this health care bill, surely you would want to defend them.

Oh, hey.. btw... since I know it's hard for you and google. Here is the form.

EDIT: to add, if you want to dispute the taxes I was mentioning go ahead and quote it. I said income tax. You changed it into Beckian.
Edited by Flippy, Sep 14 2009, 11:49 PM.
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Flippy

Quote:
 
I can prove this anytime by simply negotiating on a cash basis for services rendered, and paying less than half what 'insurance' would have paid for it...or more. Done it many a time :thumbs:


yeah.. sure. You've negotiated your health care from an emergency room bed with barder and trade. Right.

I suggest you see a doctor again because you've got a tool stick shoved straight up your rear.
Edited by Flippy, Sep 14 2009, 11:58 PM.
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bretwalda

You're too dense dude. I have no time for it. Good luck with all that though. Government loves you.

Peace.
Edited by bretwalda, Sep 15 2009, 01:40 AM.
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Flippy

bretwalda
Sep 15 2009, 01:37 AM
You're too dense dude. I have no time for it. Good luck with all that though. Government loves you.

Peace.
Nice cop out. You cannot win with facts so you resort to name calling.

Run away like a dog with your tail between your legs.
Edited by Flippy, Sep 15 2009, 10:08 AM.
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bretwalda

Quote:
 
Nice cop out. You cannot win with facts so you resort to name calling.


Win with facts? I've posted nothing but facts - you are the one pulling fiction from the mainstream newspeak bunghole. You have yet to show us anywhere where it forbids, excludes, whatever you want to call it - illegals from receiving the benefit. You've showed us (as the profacistcare mainstream debunkers do - where it says they will be excluded from credits toward it - but as we've already gone over that is not proof of excluding illegals from the system - it is proof they will be included in the system) I could care about winning all the same - it is what it is.


Anyways...

Here's some more fun facts about your fascist bill:

Refuse the mandate - go to JAIL.

USA - F&*K Yeah!!!!

Edited by bretwalda, Sep 25 2009, 11:03 PM.
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Flippy

bretwalda
Sep 25 2009, 11:00 PM
Quote:
 
Nice cop out. You cannot win with facts so you resort to name calling.


Win with facts? I've posted nothing but facts - you are the one pulling fiction from the mainstream newspeak bunghole. You have yet to show us anywhere where it forbids, excludes, whatever you want to call it - illegals from receiving the benefit. You've showed us (as the profacistcare mainstream debunkers do - where it says they will be excluded from credits toward it - but as we've already gone over that is not proof of excluding illegals from the system - it is proof they will be included in the system) I could care about winning all the same - it is what it is.


Anyways...

Here's some more fun facts about your fascist bill:

Refuse the mandate - go to JAIL.

USA - F&*K Yeah!!!!

Actually what I showed you was the actual bill. Not one link I provided was from the MSM. I've given the facts of why illegals will not be covered. It is not my job to help you with reading comprehension.

Why don't you go read some more Orly Tatz nonsense and stay in your hobbit world.
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bretwalda

Your interpretation is MSM bobblehead talking points. You have given no facts of why illegals will not be covered. This is simple rational thought which you are incapable of.

No worries. This bill is DOA now. ;)
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