AA 77 Radar Data

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AA 77 Radar Data
Topic Started: Sep 6 2009, 06:58 AM (609 Views)
scott75	Sep 6 2009, 06:58 AM Post #1
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	Continued from another forum, as I was banned in said other forum... JFK scott75 I'm assuming you mean the purple points; no 21 and 22 markings on them, but I counted, they seem to be the 21st and 22nd, points. They speak of lattitude and longitude. I suppose if I knew the lattitude and the longitude of the official flight path, I might see what you're getting at, but I don't. Look at the map. The lat/longs are already plotted. Save it to your hard drive and open it with an image editing program so you can zoom in on it if you have to. That is data from the official 84 RADES which is plotted on the map. Tell me, from that official data did the plane fly north or south of the Citgo ? You seem to be suggesting what I thought you might be suggesting; that is, that the lattitude and longtitude were for a northern approach, which is why I had asked previously if this was part of the NTSB data set, as I remember that their data did the same thing.
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JFK	Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM Post #2
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself.
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scott75	Sep 6 2009, 12:10 PM Post #3
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. I did; but looking closely is one thing, understanding more than what I've already mentioned is another.... JFK Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. Thanks. Took a look at the first thread, looks fairly complicated, think I'll shelve this for a bit later :-).
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scott75	Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM Post #4
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on...
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JFK	Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM Post #5
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on... Only the first post eh ? Attention span of a gnat ? If you wish to understand the process, you must read the entire threads Scott.
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scott75	Sep 14 2009, 08:32 AM Post #6
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM scott75 Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on... Only the first post eh ? Attention span of a gnat ? If you wish to understand the process, you must read the entire threads Scott. When one doesn't understand the foundation, continuing is, in my view, the wrong approach. I could, ofcourse, ask questions concerning the first posts, if that's ok with you?
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JFK	Sep 14 2009, 09:20 AM Post #7
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 14 2009, 08:32 AM JFK Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM scott75 Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on... Only the first post eh ? Attention span of a gnat ? If you wish to understand the process, you must read the entire threads Scott. When one doesn't understand the foundation, continuing is, in my view, the wrong approach. I could, ofcourse, ask questions concerning the first posts, if that's ok with you? What you do not seem to comprehend Scott is that in the initial posts of those threads I also did not fully comprehend it either, and figured it out in subsequent posts. All you seem to be doing here is wasting time Scott... Yours and mine. Go you not understand the definition of the word "process" Scott ?
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scott75	Sep 14 2009, 03:08 PM Post #8
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 14 2009, 09:20 AM scott75 Sep 14 2009, 08:32 AM JFK Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM scott75 Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on... Only the first post eh ? Attention span of a gnat ? If you wish to understand the process, you must read the entire threads Scott. When one doesn't understand the foundation, continuing is, in my view, the wrong approach. I could, ofcourse, ask questions concerning the first posts, if that's ok with you? What you do not seem to comprehend Scott is that in the initial posts of those threads I also did not fully comprehend it either, and figured it out in subsequent posts. All you seem to be doing here is wasting time Scott... Yours and mine. [D]o you not understand the definition of the word "process" Scott ? I have processed a great deal of information concerning 9/11, and I believe I'll continue to do so. I personally believe that if someone understands what something means and they have the time to explain it, they should, instead of sending potential students to meandering students where the potential students don't even understand the very beginning (it would be something else if the material was comprehensible to the student if read in sequence). Furthermore, I believe that questions should not be shunned, but rather encouraged. But if questions are -discouraged- here, then I suppose I might be in the wrong forum.
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JFK	Sep 14 2009, 03:53 PM Post #9
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 14 2009, 03:08 PM JFK Sep 14 2009, 09:20 AM scott75 Sep 14 2009, 08:32 AM JFK Sep 13 2009, 10:34 PM scott75 Sep 13 2009, 08:47 PM JFK Sep 6 2009, 09:26 AM I see you still have not looked closely at that map and numbers Scott. Perhaps these threads will help clarify the process... http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ I suggest you recreate the steps yourself, as that appears to be the only possiblity of your understanding it for yourself. I went over the first posts in both those threads; really couldn't understand some of the points made. I reviewed it because someone over at ATS brought up RADES again. May bring what they brought up here later on... Only the first post eh ? Attention span of a gnat ? If you wish to understand the process, you must read the entire threads Scott. When one doesn't understand the foundation, continuing is, in my view, the wrong approach. I could, ofcourse, ask questions concerning the first posts, if that's ok with you? What you do not seem to comprehend Scott is that in the initial posts of those threads I also did not fully comprehend it either, and figured it out in subsequent posts. All you seem to be doing here is wasting time Scott... Yours and mine. [D]o you not understand the definition of the word "process" Scott ? I have processed a great deal of information concerning 9/11, and I believe I'll continue to do so. I personally believe that if someone understands what something means and they have the time to explain it, they should, instead of sending potential students to meandering students where the potential students don't even understand the very beginning (it would be something else if the material was comprehensible to the student if read in sequence). Furthermore, I believe that questions should not be shunned, but rather encouraged. But if questions are -discouraged- here, then I suppose I might be in the wrong forum. Your questions are answered it the threads I pointed to which you refuse to read Scott.
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scott75	Sep 14 2009, 11:34 PM Post #10
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	Reading is pointless if one doesn't understand what one is reading. Yes, I suppose one can try to decipher it, as one would a hieroglyph, but if there are those who can help explain it... I bet you could have probably answered my initial questions in the time it's taken us to talk about it...
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JFK	Sep 15 2009, 07:40 AM Post #11
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 14 2009, 11:34 PM Reading is pointless if one doesn't understand what one is reading. Yes, I suppose one can try to decipher it, as one would a hieroglyph, but if there are those who can help explain it... I bet you could have probably answered my initial questions in the time it's taken us to talk about it... And had you actually read those two threads instead of just the opening posts and actually done something with the info enclosed within, you would have aquired an intimate knowledge rather than ( purposefully IMO ) remaining clueless and wasting everyones time Scott.
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scott75	Sep 15 2009, 07:46 AM Post #12
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 15 2009, 07:40 AM scott75 Sep 14 2009, 11:34 PM Reading is pointless if one doesn't understand what one is reading. Yes, I suppose one can try to decipher it, as one would a hieroglyph, but if there are those who can help explain it... I bet you could have probably answered my initial questions in the time it's taken us to talk about it... And had you actually read those two threads instead of just the opening posts and actually done something with the info enclosed within, you would have aquired an intimate knowledge rather than ( purposefully IMO ) remaining clueless and wasting everyones time Scott. Why must you guys always make this so difficult? I see nothing wrong with my argument that learning material should be comprehensible from the start; there can be a requirement that one -read- it from the start, but if even the -start- is confusing, I see nothing wrong with asking those who know the material well to explain it.
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JFK	Sep 15 2009, 08:15 AM Post #13
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 15 2009, 07:46 AM JFK Sep 15 2009, 07:40 AM scott75 Sep 14 2009, 11:34 PM Reading is pointless if one doesn't understand what one is reading. Yes, I suppose one can try to decipher it, as one would a hieroglyph, but if there are those who can help explain it... I bet you could have probably answered my initial questions in the time it's taken us to talk about it... And had you actually read those two threads instead of just the opening posts and actually done something with the info enclosed within, you would have aquired an intimate knowledge rather than ( purposefully IMO ) remaining clueless and wasting everyones time Scott. Why must you guys always make this so difficult? I see nothing wrong with my argument that learning material should be comprehensible from the start; there can be a requirement that one -read- it from the start, but if even the -start- is confusing, I see nothing wrong with asking those who know the material well to explain it. Scott, Why the hell should I waste my time re-explaining something which has already been explained in which you by your own admission refuse to view fully ? Edited by JFK, Sep 15 2009, 08:16 AM.
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scott75	Sep 15 2009, 02:40 PM Post #14
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	Quote: Scott, Why the hell should I waste my time re-explaining something which has already been explained in which you by your own admission refuse to view fully ? Alright, I give up. You think that people should read posts they don't understand, and then continue reading without asking questions, that's your choice to make.
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JFK	Sep 15 2009, 02:56 PM Post #15
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 15 2009, 02:40 PM Quote: Scott, Why the hell should I waste my time re-explaining something which has already been explained in which you by your own admission refuse to view fully ? Alright, I give up. You think that people should read posts they don't understand, and then continue reading without asking questions, that's your choice to make. Had you read those threads you would not be asking stupid questions in this one which have already been answered in those threads Scott. On The other hand if you truly did not understand something within those threads which related to the contents of those threads why did you not ask your question there ? Like I said Scott, you are here for the sole purpose of wasting out time. You are no truth seeker.
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scott75	Sep 15 2009, 06:04 PM Post #16
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 15 2009, 02:56 PM scott75 Sep 15 2009, 02:40 PM Quote: Scott, Why the hell should I waste my time re-explaining something which has already been explained in which you by your own admission refuse to view fully ? Alright, I give up. You think that people should read posts they don't understand, and then continue reading without asking questions, that's your choice to make. Had you read those threads you would not be asking stupid questions in this one which have already been answered in those threads Scott. On The other hand if you truly did not understand something within those threads which related to the contents of those threads why did you not ask your question there ? Like I said Scott, you are here for the sole purpose of wasting out time. You are no truth seeker. First, you ask if I have the "attention span of a gnat", now you state that I am "asking stupid questions". I ask that you consider your words. I can easily imagine that my questions have been answered somewhere in other threads. If I were in your position, I wouldn't be asking you to try to figure out where in those threads the answers lie, but I'm not. Anyway, I had been asking you if I could ask questions regarding posts in those threads, and you constantly said that I should just keep on reading things I didn't understand; that at some point I would "get it". If -no one- knew the answers to my questions, that would be the best anyone could do for me. but I sincerely doubt that's the case. It would seem that you already come to the conclusion that I am "here for the sole purpose of wasting our time" and that I am "no truth seeker". Far be it from me to dissuade you of your preset notions in your own forum. But since you have finally said it's ok to ask questions (in that thread or this one, I really didn't care where I could ask), I will now do so.
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scott75	Sep 15 2009, 06:23 PM Post #17
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	I just realized that the first post in the first thread JFK gave me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ talks of flight 11 and flight 175. It only has a data file of flight 77, but otherwise makes no mention of it. I'm guessing there must be something of interest concerning flight 77 in the thread, but I'm not going to go looking for it, atleast for now. The first post in the second thread JFK gave me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ starts off with the speed of flight 77 during its final approach to the pentagon. Not sure why this issue was brought up, although I do remember that there has been controversy as to what speed the plane was going at this time. I also notice that SPreston is there, someone whose work I greatly respect over at ATS. And despite your prickliness JFK, a trait that you share with certain other site administrators that shall go unnamed, I deeply respect the amount of knowledge you have as well; just not always so keen on your method of sharing it. Anyway, read a few more posts, couldn't really follow it all too well. Most importantly, however, I couldn't answer the question JFK asked from those posts that I had quoted in the initial post of this thread. Perhaps we should just leave it at this; the antagonism between me and JFK has approached the limit of what I'm willing to tolerate anyway.
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JFK	Sep 15 2009, 06:40 PM Post #18
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 15 2009, 06:23 PM I just realized that the first post in the first thread JFK gave me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/304879/1/ talks of flight 11 and flight 175. It only has a data file of flight 77, but otherwise makes no mention of it. I'm guessing there must be something of interest concerning flight 77 in the thread, but I'm not going to go looking for it, atleast for now. The first post in the second thread JFK gave me: http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/322707/1/ starts off with the speed of flight 77 during its final approach to the pentagon. Not sure why this issue was brought up, although I do remember that there has been controversy as to what speed the plane was going at this time. I also notice that SPreston is there, someone whose work I greatly respect over at ATS. And despite your prickliness JFK, a trait that you share with certain other site administrators that shall go unnamed, I deeply respect the amount of knowledge you have as well; just not always so keen on your method of sharing it. Anyway, read a few more posts, couldn't really follow it all too well. Most importantly, however, I couldn't answer the question JFK asked from those posts that I had quoted in the initial post of this thread. Perhaps we should just leave it at this; the antagonism between me and JFK has approached the limit of what I'm willing to tolerate anyway. Actually the first link is about the RADES data... Which is exactly what you were enquiring about. It just so happens that at that moment in time I was interested in how the RADES data fit with flights 11 and 175. The second thread is a continuation of the first relating to flight 77. You are free to leave Scott, And I suggest that you do.
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scott75	Sep 15 2009, 07:17 PM Post #19
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	Quote: Actually the first link is about the RADES data... Which is exactly what you were enquiring about. It just so happens that at that moment in time I was interested in how the RADES data fit with flights 11 and 175. Yep. Quote: The second thread is a continuation of the first relating to flight 77. Yep. Neither of the initial posts in those threads helped me to answer the question you'd asked in the initial post; that is: "Tell me, from that official data did the plane fly north or south of the Citgo?" I imagine you'll say that the answer is in those threads somewhere. And for those who like spending inordinate amounts of time resolving things that an expert could resolve rather quickly, I'm sure they'd happily dig in and work on it. I'm not someone like that though. Quote: You are free to leave Scott, And I suggest that you do. I might just do that. You just keep on bringing up things I want to address in this thread, but I doubt I'll be making a new one anytime soon.
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JFK	Sep 15 2009, 08:08 PM Post #20
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	The answer you are looking for is plotted in the map for the fifteenth time. If you don't see it then it just shows how inattentive and incompetant you are. Bye. Don't come back now. Ya hear ?
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scott75	Sep 16 2009, 07:42 AM Post #21
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	Quote: The answer you are looking for is plotted in the map for the fifteenth time. Which map? Quote: If you don't see it then it just shows how inattentive and incompetant you are. If someone spoke to you that way, I'm sure they wouldn't be here long. But double standards are fairly common when it comes to emotional subjects, I know. Quote: Bye. Don't come back now. Ya hear ? I've already stated that I'm not interested in starting any new threads here for the forseeable future, but you keep on responding to my points in the threads I've already made, which generally compels me to respond in turn. If you want to get rid of me so badly, you know how.
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JFK	Sep 16 2009, 09:42 AM Post #22
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 16 2009, 07:42 AM Quote: The answer you are looking for is plotted in the map for the fifteenth time. Which map? The one I compiled in the second thread I referenced in my first post in this thread Scott. The thread which shows the process of the compiling of that map Scott. The very same one I pointed you to at Pilots Scott. This one Scott - http://i27.tinypic.com/1zgrimq.png The same thread which you refuse to read Scott. What are you afraid of Scott ? Edited by JFK, Sep 16 2009, 10:12 AM.
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scott75	Sep 17 2009, 04:50 AM Post #23
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 16 2009, 09:42 AM scott75 Sep 16 2009, 07:42 AM Quote: The answer you are looking for is plotted in the map for the fifteenth time. Which map? The one I compiled in the second thread I referenced in my first post in this thread Scott. The thread which shows the process of the compiling of that map Scott. The very same one I pointed you to at Pilots Scott. This one Scott - http://i27.tinypic.com/1zgrimq.png The same thread which you refuse to read Scott. What are you afraid of Scott ? I remember that map now. I had guessed in the past that the answer was there and even asked you if my guess was right; I myself still can't see it though. This isn't a matter of fear JFK, just of not being able to read the map the way you can. Edited by scott75, Sep 17 2009, 04:50 AM.
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JFK	Sep 17 2009, 06:14 AM Post #24
Posts: 4,222 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	scott75 Sep 17 2009, 04:50 AM This isn't a matter of fear JFK, just of not being able to read the map the way you can. Well Scott, those threads I pointed you to deal with exactly how that map was produced. You have absolutely no interest in learning that and this thread proves that.
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scott75	Sep 17 2009, 09:31 AM Post #25
Posts: 152 Group: Members Member #827 Joined: 09/05/08	JFK Sep 17 2009, 06:14 AM scott75 Sep 17 2009, 04:50 AM This isn't a matter of fear JFK, just of not being able to read the map the way you can. Well Scott, those threads I pointed you to deal with exactly how that map was produced. You have absolutely no interest in learning that and this thread proves that. The threads deal with too much stuff that I don't understand and I guess it's gotten to the point where I've been discouraged enough here that I no longer even want to ask questions. Why can't you just try to explain to me how to read the map without pointing me to long confusing (for a novice) threads? Is it really that hard to do?
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