Why the WTC fell apart so easily

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Why the WTC fell apart so easily
Topic Started: Jul 21 2009, 08:35 AM (583 Views)
DoYouEverWonder	Jul 21 2009, 08:35 AM Post #1
Posts: 437 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: 01/24/08	For a long time I just assumed that the steel structure of the Towers was welded together. Then I found out that the curtain walls were not welded and according to this document, neither were the cores. Everything was put together with bolts. The Towers were very much like a stack of Lego blocks. Now Lego blocks are really strong, but drop a model from even just a few feet and watch the blocks scatter as soon as it hits the floor. Then imagine what would happen to these Legos if you put some explosives in just the right places. They would fall apart very easily. To build such tall buildings with just bolts was the cheap way out and a very bad idea. Especially, considering the conditions that the buildings were going to be subjected to. Because the buildings were subjected to a lot of wind most of the time, they were designed to sway back and forth. What happened is that over the life of the buildings, all this movement started loosening all the bolts. The buildings were become very dangerous and would have to come down soon anyway. Staging a terrorist attack sure would start to look like a win, win situation, I'm sure. Quote: TRADE CENTER TOWERS COLLAPSE ARCHITECTURAL AND STRUCTURAL CONCEPTS AND CONSEQUENCES ANALYSIS THE TOWERS STANDING Basic and pertinent to the events that took place on the September 11, 2001 was the structural philosophy of erecting a tall, light and resilient structure. Its underlying guide was the economy of construction, efficiency, maximum usable space and a short construction time. This brave new world was created at the expense of solidity, stiffness, redundancy, safety and the durability of the structure. What was created, a la Erector Set, was a bolted structure, a shell of steel, aluminum, plastic and glass column 208 feet square, 1353 foot high, anchored at the bottom. It was analogous to a giant corrugated cardboard box. Inside this box there was another box, a core. The core was structurally free standing, of similar to the shell height, composed of steel, concrete, and gypsum board, containing elevators, stairs, pipes, and other service equipment. To both boxes affixed were, and burdened by, 110 horizontal elements constituting floors. That's that. http://www.ponderon.com/ Edited by DoYouEverWonder, Jul 21 2009, 09:42 AM.
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TDX	Jul 21 2009, 08:54 AM Post #2
Posts: 159 Group: Members Member #435 Joined: 03/24/08	Ehm, no. There's enough evidence that majority of the core columns were welded together, there's only a remote possibility that the uppermost core columns section were bolted together.
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DoYouEverWonder	Jul 21 2009, 10:17 AM Post #3
Posts: 437 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: 01/24/08	TDX Jul 21 2009, 08:54 AM Ehm, no. There's enough evidence that majority of the core columns were welded together, there's only a remote possibility that the uppermost core columns section were bolted together. I would have thought that the core columns were welded too, or at least the steel structure at the base, but I don't recall actually reading anything that states that. Got a link?
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thequake	Sep 29 2009, 02:07 PM Post #4
Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #1,380 Joined: 09/22/09	Uhh, someone has given you very bad information. Use your brain for a minute. If the towers were bolted together instead of welded, don't you think the NIST would have seized upon this very serious design flaw in their report and presented as the reason why the towers collapsed?? But they haven't, because it isn't true. If the towers were bolted instead of welded together, they wouldn't be able to stand for one day, much less for 30+ years! No bolt in the world is strong enough to hold up that kind of weight, millions of tons of steel and concrete, which is why steel buildings are always welded not bolted together!
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JFK	Sep 29 2009, 02:24 PM Post #5
Posts: 4,218 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	thequake Sep 29 2009, 02:07 PM Uhh, someone has given you very bad information. Use your brain for a minute. If the towers were bolted together instead of welded, don't you think the NIST would have seized upon this very serious design flaw in their report and presented as the reason why the towers collapsed?? But they haven't, because it isn't true. If the towers were bolted instead of welded together, they wouldn't be able to stand for one day, much less for 30+ years! No bolt in the world is strong enough to hold up that kind of weight, millions of tons of steel and concrete, which is why steel buildings are always welded not bolted together! Actually you are incorrect, as far as the perimeter is concerned.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCbu3CvD3h8#t=2m4s Edit to add - if the core was put together in a similar fashion, wouldn't that be a great location to place the thermate ? Attached to this post: bolted.png (187.16 KB) Edited by JFK, Sep 29 2009, 02:31 PM.
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UKperspective	Sep 29 2009, 03:56 PM Post #6
Posts: 63 Group: Members Member #177 Joined: 01/22/08	The bolts were to hold the metal parts together so they were all aligned before they were welded. If the columns were only bolted, then it would have been obvious in the wreckage of the towers, because the columns would have just snapped off as the bolts sheared off or pulled out. As it was the columns and beams were bent as many of the welds held in the stress.
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thequake	Sep 29 2009, 04:02 PM Post #7
Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #1,380 Joined: 09/22/09	UKperspective Sep 29 2009, 03:56 PM The bolts were to hold the metal parts together so they were all aligned before they were welded. If the columns were only bolted, then it would have been obvious in the wreckage of the towers, because the columns would have just snapped off as the bolts sheared off or pulled out. As it was the columns and beams were bent as many of the welds held in the stress. Exactly. The bolts were used to temporarily hold the beams together before they were welded. No human is strong enough to hold the beam in place, that's why the bolts are used. Duh.
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JFK	Sep 29 2009, 04:41 PM Post #8
Posts: 4,218 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	thequake Sep 29 2009, 04:02 PM UKperspective Sep 29 2009, 03:56 PM The bolts were to hold the metal parts together so they were all aligned before they were welded. If the columns were only bolted, then it would have been obvious in the wreckage of the towers, because the columns would have just snapped off as the bolts sheared off or pulled out. As it was the columns and beams were bent as many of the welds held in the stress. Exactly. The bolts were used to temporarily hold the beams together before they were welded. No human is strong enough to hold the beam in place, that's why the bolts are used. Duh. That's not what FEMA depicts.... http://www.fema.gov/pdf/library/fema403_apb.pdf
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DoYouEverWonder	Sep 29 2009, 09:38 PM Post #9
Posts: 437 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: 01/24/08	thequake Sep 29 2009, 02:07 PM Uhh, someone has given you very bad information. Use your brain for a minute. If the towers were bolted together instead of welded, don't you think the NIST would have seized upon this very serious design flaw in their report and presented as the reason why the towers collapsed?? But they haven't, because it isn't true. If the towers were bolted instead of welded together, they wouldn't be able to stand for one day, much less for 30+ years! No bolt in the world is strong enough to hold up that kind of weight, millions of tons of steel and concrete, which is why steel buildings are always welded not bolted together! Because NIST didn't want to know what really happened to these buildings. If it became know that the buildings were 'dangerous' or there was a major flaw in their design, the lawsuits would have been flying. The gov did everything they could to make sure very few people went to court for liability damages. Edited by DoYouEverWonder, Sep 29 2009, 09:38 PM.
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thequake	Sep 29 2009, 10:03 PM Post #10
Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #1,380 Joined: 09/22/09	DoYouEverWonder Sep 29 2009, 09:38 PM thequake Sep 29 2009, 02:07 PM Uhh, someone has given you very bad information. Use your brain for a minute. If the towers were bolted together instead of welded, don't you think the NIST would have seized upon this very serious design flaw in their report and presented as the reason why the towers collapsed?? But they haven't, because it isn't true. If the towers were bolted instead of welded together, they wouldn't be able to stand for one day, much less for 30+ years! No bolt in the world is strong enough to hold up that kind of weight, millions of tons of steel and concrete, which is why steel buildings are always welded not bolted together! Because NIST didn't want to know what really happened to these buildings. If it became know that the buildings were 'dangerous' or there was a major flaw in their design, the lawsuits would have been flying. The gov did everything they could to make sure very few people went to court for liability damages. The buildings held just fine for over 30 years. if there was a design flaw in them, they would have collapsed on their own a long time ago, no airplanes or explosives necessary.
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JFK	Sep 30 2009, 12:25 AM Post #11
Posts: 4,218 Group: Admins Member #108 Joined: 01/17/08	thequake Sep 29 2009, 10:03 PM DoYouEverWonder Sep 29 2009, 09:38 PM thequake Sep 29 2009, 02:07 PM Uhh, someone has given you very bad information. Use your brain for a minute. If the towers were bolted together instead of welded, don't you think the NIST would have seized upon this very serious design flaw in their report and presented as the reason why the towers collapsed?? But they haven't, because it isn't true. If the towers were bolted instead of welded together, they wouldn't be able to stand for one day, much less for 30+ years! No bolt in the world is strong enough to hold up that kind of weight, millions of tons of steel and concrete, which is why steel buildings are always welded not bolted together! Because NIST didn't want to know what really happened to these buildings. If it became know that the buildings were 'dangerous' or there was a major flaw in their design, the lawsuits would have been flying. The gov did everything they could to make sure very few people went to court for liability damages. The buildings held just fine for over 30 years. if there was a design flaw in them, they would have collapsed on their own a long time ago, no airplanes or explosives necessary. Well I do have pics taken in November of 2000 of the mechanical floors and several of those show some serious signs of disrepair. They are posted in a thread here... Somewhere. Edit to add - Here they are http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/51493/1/#new I can see I will need to reupload some of them. Edited by JFK, Sep 30 2009, 12:33 AM.
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thequake	Sep 30 2009, 02:16 AM Post #12
Posts: 7 Group: Members Member #1,380 Joined: 09/22/09	Quote: Why the WTC fell apart so easily btw, what do you mean by 'easily?' Your premise almost seems to suggest you never seen or heard of the phenomenon known as a controlled demolition, but I'm sure you have. You seem to suggest the Towers were NOT well-designed, and therefore they fell apart easily. However, if you pack enough explosives into any structure, REGARDLESS of how solid or well-made it is, it will crumble very easily like a house of cards, exploding into dust even. No building or structure in the world can withstand the destructive forces of a well-planned demolition. Yeah, the results of any controlled demolition are always spectacular to watch, but that's what a CD is designed to do. It's nothing new. With enough well-placed explosives even the strongest most well-made structure in the world will crumble like a house of cards . Edited by thequake, Sep 30 2009, 02:34 AM.
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DoYouEverWonder	Sep 30 2009, 03:39 AM Post #13
Posts: 437 Group: Members Member #206 Joined: 01/24/08	thequake Sep 30 2009, 02:16 AM Quote: Why the WTC fell apart so easily btw, what do you mean by 'easily?' Your premise almost seems to suggest you never seen or heard of the phenomenon known as a controlled demolition, but I'm sure you have. You seem to suggest the Towers were NOT well-designed, and therefore they fell apart easily. However, if you pack enough explosives into any structure, REGARDLESS of how solid or well-made it is, it will crumble very easily like a house of cards, exploding into dust even. No building or structure in the world can withstand the destructive forces of a well-planned demolition. Yeah, the results of any controlled demolition are always spectacular to watch, but that's what a CD is designed to do. It's nothing new. With enough well-placed explosives even the strongest most well-made structure in the world will crumble like a house of cards . You would have needed tons more of explosives if the WTC was a welded steel building. The Twin Towers had become more dangerous over the course of time. Of course, the building weren't just going to spontaneously fall down on their own, but if a hurricane hit lower Manhattan, they might have had some serious problems. That was why they were so freaked out about the Citicorp Building, when they figured out they had screwed up the wind calcs.
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