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| The Great American Bubble Machine; Goldman Sachs Market Manipulation | |
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| Topic Started: Jul 3 2009, 02:35 PM (249 Views) | |
| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Jul 3 2009, 02:35 PM Post #1 |
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The Great American Bubble Machine by Matt Taibbi
Edited by T3QuillAMocKINGbird, Jul 3 2009, 02:37 PM.
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| Bernie big shorts | Jul 4 2009, 11:17 AM Post #2 |
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T3QuillAMocKINGbird, Matt Taibbi is a very perceptive commentator. Though I'm surprised you are promoting his work after he wrote this though: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/11818067/the_low_post_the_hopeless_stupidity_of_911_conspiracies/print |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Jul 4 2009, 11:32 PM Post #3 |
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Does that change the facts of what Goldman Sachs is perpetrating. You won't allow me to agree with someone on one point and not on another? Very shallow of you to suggest that I somehow disregard the knowledge I have of conspiracy towards 911 because I agree with him about Goldman Sachs. Don't you get a sense of absurdity about this whole debacle? The fact that he is stating such a large conspiracy himself actually points to validating a larger conspiracy that was created just 7 years shy of what he says Goldman Sachs started its bubble machine. 1913 Creation of the Federal Reserve in an improperly closed session of congress. What he states can be broadly speculated as conspiracy within the confines of the congress that have no authority now to oversee the issuance of money. It really shows how a group of people could pull off something so huge and show how powerless anyone out there is to do anything about it. And that reminds me alot of how the 911 investigations were stymied and first responders testimony was redacted and not presented. So there are alot of parallels whether you or Matt or I agree on it from the onset. |
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| Bernie big shorts | Jul 5 2009, 05:51 AM Post #4 |
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T3QuillAMocKINGbird,
I never said i 'won't allow' you do anything!
I never said you should disregard anything! I simply said i was surprised that you were promoting his work. I would also be surprised to see Mark Roberts anti-Bush views on here even though its a position most posters could agree with him on!
If by 'this whole debacle' you mean the corrupt activities of venture capitalists, yes i agree it is absurd and i'm grateful to journalists like Taibbi for campaigning against it. I think it's an ugly aspect of capitalism that we must work hard to legislate against.
I disagree, it doesn't necessarily follow at all. Just because the 1919 world series was fixed doesn't validate the idea that all sporting events are corrupt. As we can see by Taibbi's expose, conspiracies are notoriously difficult to hide, the more people involved the higher the risk, the larger the conspiracy the less viable it becomes.
I think it's a bit defeatist to suggest people are powerless. Corrupt governments and institutions can be healed. The civil rights movement has shown us that. The exposing of the Enron scandal and the legislative improvements in the Sarbanes-Oxley Act show us how important it is to help evolve our democratic system and to strive for better.
You need to be careful of the context of these 'stymied' investigations. Institutions or individuals who may have been fearful of being made a scapegoat for the security negligence on 911 may not have been transparent as they should, this doesn't incriminate them in the planning of 911. I'm not sure about the specific first responders testimony you are referring to, claims are made about people like Kevin McPadden and Patricia Ondrovic but their evidence should speak for itself!
I disagree, I can't see any parallels between the Goldman Sachs story and what Matt Taibbi calls the Great Derangement of 911 inside job theories. Edited by Bernie big shorts, Jul 5 2009, 01:38 PM.
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| datman | Jul 5 2009, 10:01 AM Post #5 |
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You need to be careful of the context of these 'stymied' investigations. Institutions or individuals who may have been fearful of being made a scapegoat for the security negligence on 911 may not have been transparent as they should, this doesn't incriminate them in the planning of 911. I'm not sure about the specific first responders testimony you are referring to, claims are made about people like Kevin McPadden and Patricia Ondrovic but their evidence should speak for itself! .[/quote] I have heard skeptics say this. If that is true perhaps dozens of people covered up, lied, or ubstructed justice all of which are crimes. That skeptics are ok with. Edited by datman, Jul 5 2009, 10:04 AM.
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Jul 5 2009, 10:09 AM Post #6 |
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Yeah I can agree with you on certain aspects, and I often think that the cover up of 911 was done by people that had nothing to do with 911. They probably thought is was for our own good to not understand. They knew the underlying facts surrounding it and feared it would cause upheaval as the public should not necessarily need to know about specific details. But the fact that it is business as usual and here we go again with 9 Trillion off the books and no capability to audit of the Federal Reserve, really makes me wonder if their coverup is not complicit. I don't mean to sound defeatist but these are the facts and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Because if there were something they could do, it would have already be done by Congress. This has been going on quite some time and I guess Congress is just going to say that Bushes incompetence rubbed off on them. It is called the Dubya Rub. You think? That is why I say there is a larger conspiracy here than even Matt Taibbi or I can put my head around and I wouldn't doubt it could combine with aspects of the 911 conspiracy. Seeing as the larger implications point to a pretext to war along with Orwellian pronuciations by Bush announcing it as "Oh Well Again". The damage is already done so lets keep attempting to make laws that give congressional power away like the Audit of the Federal Reserve. It is ludicris to think about the massive productivity that has been undermined. The power and money has been officially laundered and doled out. Just think about the sub contractor cronies for Enron and how much money was exchanged, they get to keep that money. Now think about the evaporation of the market and the depreciation of housing that occured after the Bubble burst. It is like someone turned america on its head and tried to shake all the "Loose Change" out from their pockets but got their wallets instead. There is nothing any Democratic process can achieve here. The Democratic process has shown that since 1913 america has been short changed and have learned to accept this shorting of their efforts. Think of the massive productivity that has been bilked and know that the people milking the teet of america take the honey too and leave american citizens only with their Free-Dumb. Bush even tried to privatize Social Security and that would be gone too now if he had succeeded. I can't wait to see what democratic process will save us from the deluge of taxation to pay a Private Bank called the Federal Reserve their just deserves. Could the 9 Trillion be something that saved the stock market from collapse? Could it have gone to bolster the economy somehow? Possibly, and I can see and play both sides here but I expect a little integrity and would hope for at the least honesty, but that is foolish to expect. So if I agree that the 9 Trillion went to save our monitary system somehow, then I am only saying lets continue the game they are playing with us! Instead of a Red Herring we have the Fed Herring in this case. There is something fishy with the way the solemn salmon dollar swims back to its place of birth to then breed more dollars only to exhaust itself as all fiscal fish expire within this empire! Only americans are forced to take the bait and swallow the Fed Herring hook line and sinker. Edited by T3QuillAMocKINGbird, Jul 5 2009, 10:11 AM.
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| datman | Jul 5 2009, 10:43 AM Post #7 |
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I agree with your analogy. I only wish I could add to the intellectual content of this discussion. My motives here are selfish. What can I do? What can we truly expect to happen? |
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| Bernie big shorts | Jul 5 2009, 01:53 PM Post #8 |
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datman,
Skeptics aren't ok with at all, i think in an investigation like this people should be completely honest. But you have to understand that there is a level of fear that cause some people to become less than transparent. Imagine if someone burnt your house down in an arson attack and people died, if the authorities were asking you about the smoke alarms you fitted you may get nervous if you were uncertain if you had replaced the batteries for example, any reluctance to discuss this is in no way an indication that you had started the fire, it is simply nervousness regarding blame in the official investigation. |
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| Bernie big shorts | Jul 5 2009, 02:13 PM Post #9 |
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T3QuillAMocKINGbird,
Could you help cover up the deaths of thousands of your countrymen? Could you honestly say you know of anyone in your circle of family and friends who could do such a thing? I really don't know anyone who could stomach such a situation. If you are a government official sitting on one of the most astonishing stories mankind has ever heard could you take that to your grave without making yourself fantastically rich and famous by going public with it, never mind the level of guilt that would be involved in remaining silent. How could the lid be kept on something like that? Government officials talk privately to their wives/husbands/friends and children, the leakage would be absolutely colossal. I often get told that anyone attempting to go public would be 'mysteriously' disappeared - what then happens to the wives/husbands/friends and children who know the 'mysteriously' disappeared one's secret? It would be impossible to contain the leaks. Look at how easily small secrets get exposed, like Watergate or Clinton's oval office activities - people love to talk! Its the way it has always been. |
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| datman | Jul 5 2009, 07:54 PM Post #10 |
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I guess but like 1913 and how the FED came to be would be an example of how some secrets never get revealed. |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Jul 5 2009, 08:27 PM Post #11 |
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I only know that testimony was concealed from certain first responders. Now lets say that these officials don't know the details but know that what these responders are saying would blow the lid off the Official story. Do they want to be the one to rock the boat? Probably not. Do they hold back the testimony of the responders intentionally? It turns out that way but they may not fully understand the implications but were told to keep all evidence under wraps. We are also forgetting some of the footage from Loose Change final cut. The guy that had his investigation completely stymied and said that he felt that he had failed us and the families of the victims. This was a top level official and I forget the details but really this was the kind of obvious countermeasures that were being deployed by the gov. But again to fathom in retrospect what kind of person could accomplish this would be like saying, "There is no way someone would drop an Atomic bomb on another country and kill innocent people." That makes sense when you look at it like that, because we all would really think that scenario is implausible and an impossibility beyond belief. But then wait, Boomersville someone named the USA did drop the A Bomb, and now we are all sitting around dropping F bombs wondering how we got into this debacle and when or how are we going to get out. Datman, I too feel that way and someone did attempt to Constitutionalize the monetary system, his name was JFK. From what I understand JFK attempted to take back the US Treasury and give it to the american people with executive order 11110. There is much debate on this subject, but there were 2 and 5 dollar bills minted with the term US Treasury note and backed by silver in the US Treasury. Higher denominations would be backed by gold and right before these bills were to come into circulation JFK was assasinated. |
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| T3QuillAMocKINGbird | Jul 6 2009, 11:03 AM Post #12 |
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Oh yeah the J and K type indicators really mean Just Kidding, appearantly someone at the NYSE thinks this is all joke... NYSE Halts Transparency, Feels Goldman Program Trading Disclosure Is Unnecessary "Basically this is the beginning of the end of unmodified data transparency. Going forward the NYSE will provide whatever data it feels comfortable, after sufficient internal "audits," and media outlets such as Zero Hedge, which had presented its millions of readers the only data point about Goldman's complete encroachment of not only NYSE but Program Trading, will be henceforth unreliable and likely will present no useful information at all." "This is a travesty, as well as a complete obliteration and a mockery of the move for transparency that the Administration, Regulators and Exchanges have been posturing they support. " Observations On NYSE Program Trading "The last two charts demonstrate the divergence of Principal trading as a fraction of total PT by any given broker. It is obvious that while the majority of top NYSE member firms have had Principal trades stay around 40% of their total PT volume, Goldman has seen its share of Principal trading go from 60% all the way into 90%: a vast majority of all its trades are merely for its own benefit (and potentially as an SLP funnel)." "Could it be that Goldman is singlehandedly benefitting from being the liquidity provider of last resort, even more so as there are virtually no other participants in the SLP program? And, as is expected, with a liquidity "monopoly", come unprecedented opportunities to take advantage of this, depending on one's view of the market. Of course, Zero Hedge is not suggesting Goldman has done this, but in a world where so little transparency exists into the core workings of the equity market, which most market traders have been clamoring has a "very fishy feel" about it, with Hard To Borrow notices appearing for such major index hedging securities as the SPY and IWR, it is no wonder that explanations are being sought." Edited by T3QuillAMocKINGbird, Jul 6 2009, 11:08 AM.
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| mike_abcd | Jul 6 2009, 08:39 PM Post #13 |
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Excellent article, thanks for sharing. Interesting thing is hes almost predicting another bubble with the 'environmental plan' of cap and trade. Lets see. Peter schiff is another guy who has not only predicted all this but rips out the cause of all this mess. |
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| Miragememories | Jul 7 2009, 12:07 PM Post #14 |
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I've heard this tiresome list of incredulity arguments over and over; - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - No one could possibly handle the guilt created by involvement in the deaths of thousands of countrymen. The impossibility of maintaining secrecy from friends or family, placing them "in the know", and effectively making them collaborationists in mass murder. The inability to stomach such an act. The missed opportunity to reap untold fame and riches by remaining silent. The lid of silence is supposedly easily removed. The word would be leaked by the flood from "loose lips" by those in the know. If a whistle blower is "disappeared" why not his family and acquaintances as well? The leaks would be too many to contain. Secrets are not easily concealed. Watergate was a small secret that could not be "contained". Clinton's sexual escapade revealed. People love to talk equates to always talk. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - On the surface, this list does appear to be a reasonable case for incredulity. But is it really? Do we really live in a society where "whistle blowing" on such a grand scale is as credible as Bernie big shorts wishes us to believe? I agree that guilt can be an unbearable burden, but it can be removed by a strong sense that the guilty act was "right", and/or by deluding oneself into believing others carry the real weight of responsibility. In Germany, the generals were not guilty for the deaths of millions, they were only following orders. In reality, secrets do come out. But do they spread? Who do you call? Who will listen or wants to listen? Reaching your mythical state of wealth and fame Bernie big shorts, requires a complete and willing support from those who are empowered to "spread the word". The Press at one time, before they became "owned", attempted to spread the results of their in depth investigations. The only reason Watergate didn't wither on the vine was because John Dean revealed the existence of Nixon's tapes. Given his unquestionable credibility as Nixon's legal counsel, Dean could not be ignored, and the Press and the Watergate investigators were compelled to follow his lead. Obviously many others, including those with low-status, must also have been aware (the tapes had to be processed and cataloged), but chose to remain silent. The news of Clinton's picadillo was a reflection of the tabloid times we live in. JFK had far more colorful sexual escapades outside of his marriage, but the press at that time said nothing, choosing to treat presidential daliances as a taboo subject until the "gloves came off" years later when Nixon disgraced the office of the president by sanctioning the breaking of public laws. Now the Press focus their investigative energies primarily on creating entertainment news, such as the latest angle on Michael Jackson. Meanwhile a wealth of incriminating knowledge about 9/11 has been collected by large groups of people representing various professional, military, intelligence and government associations. Yet those in power who should respond don't, largely because the "owned" Mainstream Press, totally ignore or grossly distort these revelations. So tell me Bernie big shorts, if you had "guilt inducing knowledge about 9/11", who would you call that you honestly believe would listen and take effective action? MM |
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11:58 PM Dec 5
